Homosexuality: Discussion of

[OMNOMNOMALY]

[FONT="Georgia"]I, like several others in this forum, don't care if someone is homosexual. It's really a non-issue for me; my best friend is gay, my atleast two of my other best friends are bi. Like SunFallE said, in regards to lesbians, I don't care if they hit on me because I take it as a compliment.

I was raised in a really accepting and tolerant environment. I was just taught that all people are equal, despite differences like sexual preference and that there was absolutely nothing wrong with being different in that aspect or any other.

It's becoming more acceptable in society, very slowly. People need to mind their own business; gay people are not the downfall of society and nobody is making you go out and change your sexual preferences, so mind your own business![/FONT]

[Break]

[quote name='Dagger']Very very debatable, but I don't want to go into it; I'm sure you can find plenty of material about the theological & scholarly back-and-forth if you're curious. Frankly, though, since it seems safe to assume that none of us are Biblical experts, I'd say that using the Bible to justify anything other than love, peace, turning the other cheek, etc., etc. is really a bit dicey.

~Dagger~[/QUOTE]

Neither do I lol, but I am pretty sure that was part His reasoning. There are passages that support it. I was more making a comment on Retribution's wonderful use of rhetoric than trying to support [i]why[/i] I was against it.

What [i]does[/i] interest me most is why we have this word "sodomy".

EDIT:

[quote name='Anomaly'][FONT="Georgia"]... so mind your own business![/FONT][/QUOTE]

I do. I would love nothing more than for it not to be my business - like I said, I don't like seeing it or hearing people talking about it. I don't know why.

But as it becomes more acceptable in society, there will be more openly gay couples in public - surely. With regards to what I said about not liking to see it, is it not increasingly becoming my business anyway?

EDIT (again!!): Just to clarify, I don't scream at homosexuals in public lol, if that is the vibe I'm conveying! (I'm worried that it is!) I tolerate it, but I do not like it. I have homosexual friends, and I don't care. In fact, I don't even know what my opinion is.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Retribution'][size=1]Do you also follow the passage that says you can stone disobedient children?[/size][/QUOTE]

[color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy] You can do that? Damn... and here where I live you can't even spank a kid without getting dirty looks and a CPS investigation.

Personally I don't care what people do in their personal lives as long as it doesn't harm anyone. Love happens. You can't choose to who you're attracted to because it's a genetic thing.

And Break God didn't destroy Sodom and Gommorah because of their homosexual inhabitants. He destroyed them because of their treatment to some prophets and visitors.

PS I like repeat threads because sometimes people's veiws change on a subject and there are new members who missed the last thread on this topic.[/color][/font]

[Break]

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman'][color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]And Break God didn't destroy Sodom and Gommorah because of their homosexual inhabitants. He destroyed them because of their treatment to some prophets and visitors.

PS I like repeat threads because sometimes people's veiws change on a subject and there are new members who missed the last thread on this topic.[/color][/font][/QUOTE]

Oh I know that, I said it was [i]part[/i] of His reasoning; they were greedy, horrible, generally a sinful lot (what a clever pun). I also know that the homosexuality is conjecture - I should have said "possibly a part..." but, oh well.

I like repeat threads, but only after months and months have passed. A year ago I probably would have said "yeah I don't care, do whatever you like" - and now I'm like some fascist lol. I don't know why I disagree with it now, although there still is that I-don't-care attitude swimming in my brain somewhere.

EDIT: And, of course, how can new members talk about [i]anything[/i] if some threads aren't repeated once in a while?

[Korey]

[quote name='Tombstone'][font=comic sans ms][color=blue]@ Retribution - And lord knows that I get tempted to throw a brick at some of these kids forheads these days. >_>[/color][/font][/QUOTE]

Does the bible say that we can cast stones on stupid people too? Cause I'm always up for chucking a few stones at people. ^_~

I'm not a big religious person, so I don't read the Bible very often. I just get tired of people saying the Bible says that Homosexuality is immoral. If you wanna be a stickler about it, fine. I won't judge you. Just don't heave your religion on me and expect me to believe that it is the utmost truth in the world. Everything is flawed, I realize this, but religious zealots have heads thicker than the walls of the Vatican.

On an unrelated note:Where is the smiting of people by the lord if we have all these sinners here? God used to strike down people on the spot for blaspheme and such and now, I don't know. God seems to take the "Full Circle, What goes around, Comes Around." approach. It works, but's it's just not as flashy as the stuff depicted in the Old Testament.

[Zen]

[color=darkred][size=1]

So many people speaking from a strictly Christian stand point, I could almost be insulted that just because a religion says something that it must be true and used in defense of disliking an individual or group.

I understand if a person wants to follow religious dogma and follow what is said in their religion, but that is for you to follow, not others. My religion has no stand point on sexual sins other than "Refrain from sexual misconduct" which I can only relate to "No rape". Religion, particularly Christianity, has a way of argueing against itself, so I don't see the point in bringing into the conversation. God seemed to have switched from Bad Cop to Good Cop when the New Testament came around, so, heh. Went from striking Job with diseases to having Jesus cure the blind.

On a related matter, if America is truly a religiously-open society, then how can a politician outlaw gay marriage on the grounds of 'protecting it's sanctity'? Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

Though I suppose the arguement, "It's the way I was raised" has a valid point, being that you are usually a product of your enviroment.[/color][/size]

[Break]

[quote name='Sesshomarufan']I'm not a big religious person, so I don't read the Bible very often. I just get tired of people saying the Bible says that Homosexuality is immoral. If you wanna be a stickler about it, fine. I won't judge you. Just don't heave your religion on me and expect me to believe that it is the utmost truth in the world. Everything is flawed, I realize this, but religious zealots have heads thicker than the walls of the Vatican.

On an unrelated note:Where is the smiting of people by the lord if we have all these sinners here? God used to strike down people on the spot for blaspheme and such and now, I don't know. God seems to take the "Full Circle, What goes around, Comes Around." approach. It works, but's it's just not as flashy as the stuff depicted in the Old Testament.[/QUOTE]

I don't think I'm heaving anything. I'm not even that religious.

Look at it in a more scientific way, if you will. A hypothetical situation: everyone is homosexual (I know that would never happen, so don't even bother taking me up on it) and cannot [i]bear[/i] to sleep with anyone of the opposite gender so that they can procreate, let alone think about it. What happens? We die out. It's all well and good following love and what you enjoy the most, but even though my hypothetical situation would never happen, surely it points to [i]some[/i] kind of logic at least?

I am talking more back when the Old Testament was written, or if you like things un-Biblical, back in the Roman Empire, when IVF was unavailable. Surely you can understand why religions (especially back then) would have found it... but then there are accounts of Romans being homosexual.

I'm getting no where! But I still don't agree with it.

EDIT:

[quote name='The Boss'][color=darkred][size=1]Though I suppose the arguement, "It's the way I was raised" has a valid point, being that you are usually a product of your enviroment.[/color][/size][/QUOTE]

I wasn't even raised a Christian. I don't know why I'm using religion to support myself, but I suppose it seems the most concrete out of the two things that could argue against homosexuality, the other being my irrational opinion. And I don't [i]do[/i] irrational opinions. I have to have a reason behind things.

[Korey]

You just argued yourself into a corner then, lol ^_~

I didn't specifically say you were heaving religion down anyone's throat. I just don't like people who are like that. Religion isn't absolute truth, not by a long shot. But that's another discussion.

Break: You have a good point in your argument. We wouldn't procreate and we would die out. Sounds good. But the fact is, we don't have an overwhelming gay population in most countries. It's in the bigger, more developed countries that have larger gay populations than other nations such as Trinidad and Tobago for instance. I'm not saying that you're wrong for going against Homosexuality. I actually applaud you for being a person who will take a stance against it. Everyone here is taking a on the fence sort of attitude towards it, including myself. You aren't afraid to say "Hey I think it's wrong and I don't like it". So kudos to you.

[Zen]

[quote name='Break']

I wasn't even raised a Christian. I don't know why I'm using religion to support myself, but I suppose it seems the most concrete out of the two things that could argue against homosexuality, the other being my irrational opinion. And I don't [i]do[/i] irrational opinions. I have to have a reason behind things.[/QUOTE]

[color=darkred][size=1]

So.... your uneasy feelings about homosexuals would be what kind of feelings?

Sorry, I shouldn't single you out like that. But really, it can be directed at Japan_86 and a few others as well. I mean, yeah, you can say that you have reasons that you're so uncomfortable around gays/lesbians, but really, what valid reasons? Were you victimized by a group of homosexuals in school or something? [/color][/size]

[Retribution]

[quote name='Break']Don't be so silly. Following the rules against homosexuality makes a lot more sense than stoning children and you know it :animesigh

God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for rampant homosexuality, I am certain (not that He did, but that it says that was the reason in the Bible). Where do you think the word "sodomy" comes from?

And I'm pretty sure God didn't destroy a city full of disobedient children.[/QUOTE]
[size=1]All I'm saying is if you're going to quote the Old Testament as justification for something, the street is two ways. You can't pick and choose what is convenient by our modern standard and distance yourself from the inconvenient.

I'm not sure [i]why[/i] they'd stone disobedient children, but I'm assuming it's serious if it's in Leviticus. And of course homosexuality was outlawed because Israel needed to keep their population up. Antiquated, anyone?[/size]

[OMNOMNOMALY]

[quote name='Break']


I do. I would love nothing more than for it not to be my business - like I said, I don't like seeing it or hearing people talking about it. I don't know why.

But as it becomes more acceptable in society, there will be more openly gay couples in public - surely. With regards to what I said about not liking to see it, is it not increasingly becoming my business anyway?

EDIT (again!!): Just to clarify, I don't scream at homosexuals in public lol, if that is the vibe I'm conveying! (I'm worried that it is!) I tolerate it, but I do not like it. I have homosexual friends, and I don't care. In fact, I don't even know what my opinion is.[/QUOTE]

[FONT="Georgia"]My basic point is that you gotta tolerate it. I don't care if you don't like it, nobody said you had too. You don't scream at homosexuals in public; don't start doing it now ;D People have a right to be true to themselves in public, and I guess that's why it bothers me when people openly hate on gay couples or get weirded out seeing two guys or two girls holding hands. ( I'm not getting a bad vibe from you, you're expression your opinion and so am I. No worries =))

I can understand why some people find it awkward to see... I don't think they should, but they do and what I think won't change it. I know that it's a new thing, particularly for older people.

Edit:
[quote name='The Boss'][color=darkred][size=1]
So many people speaking from a strictly Christian stand point, I could almost be insulted that just because a religion says something that it must be true and used in defense of disliking an individual or group.
[/color][/size][/QUOTE][/FONT]

hear hear.

[Korey]

[quote name='the boss'] So many people speaking from a strictly Christian stand point, I could almost be insulted that just because a religion says something that it must be true and used in defense of disliking an individual or group.[/quote]

Exactly my point. It's not only in Christianity that you see this though. Jews and Muslims hate each other and Muslims find new and interesting things in the Q'uaran that say that we should kill all who oppose our God's will. Fanaticism, I realize, but I remember the Christians doing something remotely akin to this somewhere, at some time. Meh, I don't know. ^_~

It's a funny situation when you have homosexual friends and you are a person who is personally against homosexuality. You start getting this feeling that somehow, someway, they are going to turn you gay.

It's funny that you think that we're thinking you yell at Homosexuals, Break. I assure you we think of you as a person who is open about their opinions and not afraid to defend them. You say you don't know what your opinion is and that is a good thing. You are starting to let yourself be open to new ideas and lifestyles. You may not personally start advocating homosexuality or have a homosexual relationship....but you will learn to eventually learn to accept that it's there and that it may not be a bad thing necessarily.

[Break]

[quote name='Sesshomarufan']You just argued yourself into a corner then, lol ^_~[/quote]

It was a poor show :(

[quote]Break: You have a good point in your argument. We wouldn't procreate and we would die out. Sounds good. But the fact is, we don't have an overwhelming gay population in most countries. It's in the bigger, more developed countries that have larger gay populations than other nations such as Trinidad and Tobago for instance. I'm not saying that you're wrong for going against Homosexuality. I actually applaud you for being a person who will take a stance against it. Everyone here is taking a on the fence sort of attitude towards it, including myself. You aren't afraid to say "Hey I think it's wrong and I don't like it". So kudos to you.[/QUOTE]

I know. It seems a far-fetched rationale at best. I was trying to come up with something. I can't really think of anything else. Thank you for the kudos though. If I deserve any lol.

I can't just say "It's wrong, I don't like it." I need an argument to back up. Anyone could sit there all day saying "I like this and that, but I absolutely detest whatsit - and don't even talk to me about this thing!" and give no reason for it.

[quote name='The Boss'][color=darkred][size=1]Were you victimized by a group of homosexuals in school or something? [/color][/size][/QUOTE]

Hahaha, far from it.

I think you misunderstood me, what I meant is that I [i]feel[/i] that it is wrong, but I don't know why I feel that it is wrong. I'm trying to everything I know, so I can figure it out. Seems I don't know much. But no, unfortunately it's nothing as sinister as you think.

[quote name='Retribution'][size=1]I'm not sure [i]why[/i] they'd stone disobedient children, but I'm assuming it's serious if it's in Leviticus. And of course homosexuality was outlawed because Israel needed to keep their population up. Antiquated, anyone?[/size][/QUOTE]

Of course it's antiquated - [i]I'm[/i] antiquated. I still think it's wrong though.

[quote name='Anomaly'][FONT="Georgia"]My basic point is that you gotta tolerate it. I don't care if you don't like it, nobody said you had too. You don't scream at homosexuals in public; don't start doing it now ;D People have a right to be true to themselves in public, and I guess that's why it bothers me when people openly hate on gay couples or get weirded out seeing two guys or two girls holding hands. ( I'm not getting a bad vibe from you, you're expression your opinion and so am I. No worries =))

I can understand why some people find it awkward to see... I don't think they should, but they do and what I think won't change it. I know that it's a new thing, particularly for older people.
[/FONT][/QUOTE]

The screaming wasn't specific, it could have been any number of horrible things towards homosexuals. Just wanted people to know that I am not horrible because of my opinions.

As for people having a [i]right[/i] to be true to themselves in public, it depends how far you want to go on the "people can do whatever they like as long as it doesn't harm anyone else", and how you interpret the word 'harm'. It doesn't traumatise me, but it is something that I don't like to see. Perhaps I am in the minority, and - in actual fact - a lot of people are fine with homosexuality. Perhaps not.

I could say something about 'rights' as well... but I'd most definitely end up arguing in circles, round corners, down really deep wells and all that malarky.

[b]EDIT:[/b]

[quote name='Sesshomarufan']It's a funny situation when you have homosexual friends and you are a person who is personally against homosexuality. You start getting this feeling that somehow, someway, they are going to turn you gay.[/quote]

That's odd, I've actually never thought that!

[quote][i]It's funny that you think that we're thinking you yell at Homosexuals, Break. I assure you we think of you as a person who is open about their opinions and not afraid to defend them. You say you don't know what your opinion is and that is a good thing. You are starting to let yourself be open to new ideas and lifestyles. You may not personally start advocating homosexuality or have a homosexual relationship....but you will learn to eventually learn to accept that it's there and that it may not be a bad thing necessarily.[/i][/QUOTE]

It's just that nowadays I've been afraid to say anything because there are so many advocators. It's like there are skin heads that will bite your head off (verbally) for saying one thing against homosexuality. But then they're the opposite of skin heads.

I accepted it a lot more when I was a little younger. I don't know why. Perhaps I'm just a radical who likes to be against the norm all the time (the norm this time being [i]for[/i] homosexuality). I think when I was younger, I presumed that everybody thought that it was horrid, so I just said the opposite to them. Now I think this is actually what I believe, possibly one of the only things on which I have a firm opinion.

Of course I accept that some people are homosexual - it's unavoidable. I don't mean to sound rude, but it sounded just now like you were trying to force your non-religion down [i]my[/i] throat! ;)

[OMNOMNOMALY]

[quote name='Break']


The screaming wasn't specific, it could have been any number of horrible things towards homosexuals. Just wanted people to know that I am not horrible because of my opinions.

As for people having a [i]right[/i] to be true to themselves in public, it depends how far you want to go on the "people can do whatever they like as long as it doesn't harm anyone else", and how you interpret the word 'harm'. It doesn't traumatise me, but it is something that I don't like to see. Perhaps I am in the minority, and - in actual fact - a lot of people are fine with homosexuality. Perhaps not.

I could say something about 'rights' as well... but I'd most definitely end up arguing in circles, round corners, down really deep wells and all that malarky.[/QUOTE]

[FONT="Georgia"]I realize that it wasn't a specific example of what you might do to homosexuals. Just reiterating that you don't freak out at them in public because you know it's wrong to do that; that's good.

I'm gonna define harm like my friends at dictionary.com do...

harm /hɑrm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hahrm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. physical injury or mental damage; hurt: to do him bodily harm.
2. moral injury; evil; wrong

So therefore I don't think that being yourself, whether thats straight, gay, bisexual, transgendered, transexual, whatever, and admitting it in public will do any harm to anybody else. If a person is mentally traumatized by that... welllll... it's a shame you're they're sheltered to that extreme point.

I'm not gonna argue generalized rights either, I just think that being able to freely admit who you are in regards to your orientation [I]is[/I] one.

Edit:

[quote name='Break']

I'm getting no where! But I still don't agree with it.
I wasn't even raised a Christian. I don't know why I'm using religion to support myself, but I suppose it seems the most concrete out of the two things that could argue against homosexuality, the other being my irrational opinion. And I don't [i]do[/i] irrational opinions. I have to have a reason behind things.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Break']
I accepted it a lot more when I was a little younger. I don't know why. Perhaps I'm just a radical who likes to be against the norm all the time (the norm this time being [i]for[/i] homosexuality). I think when I was younger, I presumed that everybody thought that it was horrid, so I just said the opposite to them. Now I think this is actually what I believe, possibly one of the only things on which I have a firm opinion.
;)[/QUOTE]

wait...what?
I'm confused. Firm opinion, or not? Because I've seen you say that you have both "I don't care feelings" and then "against homosexual" feelings, AND then you don't have really good reasoning but you still have a firm opinion? Not attacking you, really. I just don't [I]get [/I]it.

[/FONT]

[Zen]

[quote name='Break']



Hahaha, far from it.

I think you misunderstood me, what I meant is that I [i]feel[/i] that it is wrong, but I don't know why I feel that it is wrong. I'm trying to everything I know, so I can figure it out. Seems I don't know much. But no, unfortunately it's nothing as sinister as you think.

[/QUOTE]

[color=darkred][size=1]

Nah, homie. I never thought that you had it in your mind to "Victamize" homosexuals, but it's more like... hm.

A comedian once said "Homophobia is the only phobia that you can be called an intolerant bigot for having...

It's like, maybe these people were actually traumatized by homosexuals in their childhood. Like maybe a homosexual fell on them as a baby or something, jumped out of a closet and spooked 'em."

I understand the state of your "discomfort" and I know it's not a hostility. I suppose that makes it the truest defintion of "homophobia", heh. I suppose I'm trying to get you to probe your own mind into finding out just why you're uncomfortable about the concept in the first place.

I heard the examples that people are scared of "being turned gay". I think that if you are as comfortable with your sexual orientation as I believe I am, that you really won't be so uncomfortable. Maybe it's an issue of knowing yourself better (I'm not directing this directly at you, Break, but all people who have this as an excuse).

I mean, instead of finding arguements to defend your reasons why you are against homosexuality, why not look into yourself and find WHY you are in the first place. I understand that it's a personal opinion, but then again, I don't think it's agreeable if your personal opinion on black people or asian people is a negative one. It's a fellow human being, and you shouldn't be afraid of them (unless you're afraid of people or something, haha, then it's understandable). Or uncomfortable around them.[/color][/size]

[Darren]

If you want to take a biblical stand point on the matter:

I was raised Southern Baptist, went to Assembly of God, then to Church of Chrise, then to non-denominational... Finally, agnostic.

I have absorbed so many different beliefs from each religion. (not that I believe in any of them anymore besides your standard morals which are present in just about every religion including buddhism) One thing that was present in each was that homosexuality was a sin. I was also taught that the old testament is meant to be a guide; that the new testament is meant to be the new and official set of laws for christians.

As far as I can tell, if you're religious or have that standpoint then 1 Corinthians 6:9 proves your point (And the fact that it's in the new testament proves that it's in the "New and Official set of rules" as I have dubbed it:

[quote name='The Bible (NIV)']"Do you not know that eh wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nore idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitues nor homosexual offenders..."[/quote]

But also going to these different religions have made me realize that the church are hipocrites when they criticize homosexuals for believing in God. Each and every church that I've been to has refused to acknowlede or teach certain parts of the bible. At the Assembly of God, for example, they tried to convince me to "speak in tongues" and said that I would not be filled with the "Holy Spirit" if I didn't. They were choosing to ignore 1 Cor. 12... Every religion does it, so who says christians have the right to judge someone else, (in this case, gay christians) when they do the same thing.
And while you may think that homosexuality is worse than lying or premarital sex, the bible says all sins are equal in the eyes of God. The only exception is blashphemy.

For the christians who try to justify their feelings, it all comes down to picking and choosing scripture, different translations, and hipocracy because no one is perfect. I will agree with that Calvinistic church from Kansas when saying it [I]does[/I] say that someone else, besides God, has the right to be judgemental. But it also comes with the stipulation that they must be on a closer, more personal relationship with God. But that makes the verse completly void since no one is better than the other, taking into context what I just wrote about every christian religion there is!

For everyone else who can't justify their feelings: It's predjudice through and through. Even if you say you find yourself uncomfortable being in the presence of a homosexual, it's still predjudice. Wanna know why? Think of it in terms racism. After the civil rights movement, do you really think that most whites were "comfortable" around blacks?

It's the same with homo and hetero: We were raised in a society where it's not acceptable. And now that we're seeing it more and more often in the open, we become uncomfortable with it. That doesn't mean we hate that person or that we'll avidly speak against it, but it definately shows how we were raised.

I suspect in 50 to 75 years that homosexuality will be just as accepted as African Americans are now. Sure it will never be totally accepted, just as there are still racists in the world, but it will grow and eventually the predjudice attitudes will stop being passed from generation to generation and it will cease to be a big deal.

[Break]

[quote name='The Boss'][size=1]A comedian once said "Homophobia is the only phobia that you can be called an intolerant bigot for having...

It's like, maybe these people were actually traumatized by homosexuals in their childhood. Like maybe a homosexual fell on them as a baby or something, jumped out of a closet and spooked 'em."[/size][/quote]

lol...

[quote][i][size=1]I understand the state of your "discomfort" and I know it's not a hostility. I suppose that makes it the truest defintion of "homophobia", heh. I suppose I'm trying to get you to probe your own mind into finding out just why you're uncomfortable about the concept in the first place.[/i][/size][/quote]

Feels like I'm at a psychiatrist's lol.

Seriously though, I would not say I am homophobic in the least. I'm not scared of being turned gay - that is ridiculous. Maybe I just like to be controversial. Who knows!

[quote][i][size=1]I heard the examples that people are scared of "being turned gay". I think that if you are as comfortable with your sexual orientation as I believe I am, that you really won't be so uncomfortable. Maybe it's an issue of knowing yourself better (I'm not directing this directly at you, Break, but all people who have this as an excuse).[/size][/i][/quote]

I'm comfortable. I think I probably blew out of proportions how I feel about homosexuals expressing themselves in public. I do not like it, but only a little more than I don't like seeing heterosexual couples doing the same thing. That's only in public though. I really don't care for what they do in private.

It would have been simpler just to say "I think it is wrong" and leave it at that :animeswea

[quote][i][size=1]I mean, instead of finding arguements to defend your reasons why you are against homosexuality, why not look into yourself and find WHY you are in the first place.[/size[[/i][/quote]

Because I'm a terrible upstart and make mountains out of molehills lol. I still believe what I believe though. I must sound very ignorant at the moment, sorry!

[i][quote][size=1]I understand that it's a personal opinion, but then again, I don't think it's agreeable if your personal opinion on black people or asian people is a negative one. It's a fellow human being, and you shouldn't be afraid of them (unless you're afraid of people or something, haha, then it's understandable). Or uncomfortable around them.[/size][/QUOTE]

Nope, I am a generally quite liberal person, believe it or not. Rights for everyone! But I still think that homosexuality is wrong - it is not the way things should be. If I could find the sources and the evidence I'd write a thesis on why I hold that opinion. There are many reasons that I probably don't even know yet.

I'm not uncomfortable around homosexuals, or anyone of differnt ethnicity. As long as they don't plan to insult me, hurt me, or kill me, that's fine.

I am so tired. I need to go to bed. Anomaly: I was just being pedantic, it's alright lol. The philosophy of language and rights are bad enough on their own, but when joined together and mingled with sexual orientations I don't think I have the mind to be able to comprehend what I am even saying myself, as much as I'd love to get more in-depth.

:sleep:

ARGHEDIT:

[quote name='Darren']For everyone else who can't justify their feelings: It's predjudice through and through. Even if you say you find yourself uncomfortable being in the presence of a homosexual, it's still predjudice. Wanna know why? Think of it in terms racism. After the civil rights movement, do you really think that most whites were "comfortable" around blacks?[/QUOTE]

It's much [i]less[/i] of a prejudice than hating different ethnicities, I am very sure of that. So am I basically being called a bigot? Fair enough. I have said a million times that I tolerate and accept homosexuality, but I still think it is wrong. If I were prejudiced it would mean I judged people before knowing them for themselves, not for being homosexual or [i]whatever[/i] - I don't do that.

I think I've argued into so many corners and proved myself a hypocrite more than once. Bed.

[Soren]

[QUOTE=The Boss]So.... your uneasy feelings about homosexuals would be what kind of feelings?

Sorry, I shouldn't single you out like that. But really, it can be directed at Japan_86 and a few others as well. I mean, yeah, you can say that you have reasons that you're so uncomfortable around gays/lesbians, but really, what valid reasons? Were you victimized by a group of homosexuals in school or something? [/QUOTE]

[FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]I distinctly recall earlier in this thread that the preference towards homosexuality was compared to the preference towards mayonnaise or mustard. So to, it could be, for a natural repulsion of homosexuality. If that is the case, let me combine your 'victimize' example and the 'mustard/mayo' analogy: Do I need a reason to prefer mustard over mayo? What you're saying to break is the equivalent of asking me, "Were you bitten by a mayonnaise-eater at a restaurant or something?"

As for my own opinion, you guys on the fence make room, I joining your ranks. I have a personal distaste for homosexuality (actually, I have a personal distaste for a large chunk of [I]sexuality[/I], period. I am the last of a dying breed: a prude.) But I don't have anything against homosexuals. I have, too, have a few friends who are homo- and bi-sexual, and I count them as among my closest.

Now, to clarify a few Bible discussions...
ChibiHorsewoman: Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of their sodomy. Abraham was only there because he was begging God to spare the city if there was a hand full of righteous men there.

As a Christian Existentialist (see: name, avatar), I believe that, after death, the individual is placed before God and measured. If homosexuality sends you to Hell, you can ask God then why, (or more probably, "Wth, man?). If not, then no problems. Since homosexuality differs from the other sins in that nobody is really being harmed, I can't see any reason from here on Earth why it's a problem, so I choose to withold judgement.

I know it might sound a silly, but that's the best this sleep-deprived brain of mine can explain my own personal philosophy. (Now that I think about it, I feel ashamed that,even though I trudged through "The Sickness Unto Death", one of the hardest books I've ever attempted reading (and less than 100 pages, to boot), I was only able to come up with that. :animedepr [/FONT]

Edit :[FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]Those other posts just popped into existince while I was taking my time typing! The Boss: It seems the argument has changed slightly, so if my response is off base, it's because I was a little behind[/FONT]

[AngryBarista]

[FONT="Trebuchet MS"][SIZE="1"][COLOR="DarkSlateBlue"]*sigh* If only I had AU$1 for every thread I've ever seen/participated in relating somehow to homosexuality...I'd have like AU$5!

When you think about it, what is it exactly that makes people feel uncomfortable about seeing two guys/girls openly showing their affection toward one another? Is it really the holding hands thing?
They way I see it, from the perspective of a homosexual male myself, is like this:

If I see anyone walking down the street holding hands, I phase it out. It's not my business, and either way they could have any various number of reasons for holding hands; maybe one person has gone through a rough time and the other is supporting them, or maybe one is showing the other around and their sticking together so as not to loose the newbie to wherever they may be [take a city for instance]. Either way, not my business.

Now when I see two people, homo- or heterosexual, kissing in public...this is the part that gives me a vibe of some sort. I'm not one to say 'Don't kiss one another you vile fiends, there are children to protect!', but there has to be a level of restraint on the part of those showing one another open affection, especially in a busy area [take the grass out the front of Melbourne's City Library for instance].
Sure there is nothing quite 'wrong' with the whole 'We're in love' situation, but taking into account your context and surroundings is important with everything we do as a society.

I may just be ranting on to join in on the conversation, but I think I have a valid point in there somewhere :P
It's a matter of getting it from my head to the computer screen that's all.

I think what I'm getting at is that in general, open displays of affection in public are always going to cause awkward vibes to be picked up by those around us. I am in no way condoning public displays...well the ones that go a little bit too far I am, but from what I've learned through experience, people will be tolerant up to a point. It's a matter of learning where that point is, and to know when and where to show 'love'.

Yeah okay so I'm kinda sitting on the fence, but look at it from both perspectives; respect one another's opinions. No one is better than anyone else, as we all know. To limit one minority, we have to limit the majority to an extent so as not to create arguments and confusion.
Think of the kiddies! :O...actually don't. Leave them out of it.

I hope I'm not just regurgitating what I've read from you guys, haha! If you want me to *try* and clarify something lemme know ;)
--Sat[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Zen]

[quote name='Break']lol...

Feels like I'm at a psychiatrist's lol.

Seriously though, I would not say I am homophobic in the least. I'm not scared of being turned gay - that is ridiculous. Maybe I just like to be controversial. Who knows!

I'm comfortable. I think I probably blew out of proportions how I feel about homosexuals expressing themselves in public. I do not like it, but only a little more than I don't like seeing heterosexual couples doing the same thing. That's only in public though. I really don't care for what they do in private.

It would have been simpler just to say "I think it is wrong" and leave it at that :animeswea

Because I'm a terrible upstart and make mountains out of molehills lol. I still believe what I believe though. I must sound very ignorant at the moment, sorry!

Nope, I am a generally quite liberal person, believe it or not. Rights for everyone! But I still think that homosexuality is wrong - it is not the way things should be. If I could find the sources and the evidence I'd write a thesis on why I hold that opinion. There are many reasons that I probably don't even know yet.

I'm not uncomfortable around homosexuals, or anyone of differnt ethnicity. As long as they don't plan to insult me, hurt me, or kill me, that's fine.

I am so tired. I need to go to bed. Anomaly: I was just being pedantic, it's alright lol. The philosophy of language and rights are bad enough on their own, but when joined together and mingled with sexual orientations I don't think I have the mind to be able to comprehend what I am even saying myself, as much as I'd love to get more in-depth.

:sleep:[/QUOTE]
[color=darkred][size=1]

I'm pretty sure that it's an accepted fact that homosexuality does not serve much "biological" purpose, being that it bares no children. But marriage doesn't make sense either. All marriage does is limit human beings to single sexual partners to bare children with, while in reality, we would have a much firmer population should males be allowed to impregnate any woman he like, one after the other.

But for some reason, human beings across the world with absolutely no communicational forms, created the idea of marriage and practiced it. Native Americans, the Japanese, The European, the Ancient Greeks, all of them had the concept of marriage in mind. The Greeks and Japanese accepted homosexual relationships on the side to straight marriage as normal facts of life.

So apparently, homosexaulity isn't a new invention or even one that spells "doom" for anyone. If God destroyed Sodom and Gomora, then why didn't he blow up Japan and ancient Greece also?

Maybe it's possible that some humans just have the emotional and physical urge to express love (or lust) to a member of the same gender. I mean, come on.... who doesn't wanna do Johnny Depp? (note for humor).

While it may not make much "physical" biological sense, I don't think it's out of the park as "the human need to make connections with it's own species" since humans are social creatures. Homosexuality is as old as civilization, and as soon as people stopped NEEDING to have straight sex for the species survival, they started having recreational gay sex.

So I suppose it's really not "wrong" just "unproductive". So, if you think it's wrong to have gay sex, then it's more than less "wrong" to masturbate aswell. And Marry. Neither really help to "spread the species", it's just for emotional or physical desire.

See what I'm getting at? I mean, it may seem to you that it's logical to not like something that's unnatural, but really, it's not as "unnatural" as you may think.[/color][/size]

[Break]

[quote name='Søren'][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]I am the last of a dying breed: a prude.[/FONT][/QUOTE]

I think everyone's gathered that perhaps that is what I am as well.

Good night. :sleep:

[DeathKnight]

[color=crimson]I am against homosexuality. I do fear for the state of our society when homosexuality is so allowed as it is. What will children think when people are allowed freedom to love as they wish? The impression of an accepting and open society could seriously compromise their morality. I'm unsure of what kind of a future they would mold if their impressionable minds were showed such acceptance. Ungodly and sincerely horrid.

I am aware that societies in Japan, China, Ancient Rome, Ancient Greece, Persia and Native America allowed or embraced homosexuality to varying degrees without any dire effects but remain adamantly certain that, inexplicably, after over a thousand years of homosexuality having a presence on Earth it is suddenly harmful. My reasoning for this is primarily attained from the Christian spiritual text where it says thus:

"And God looked down upon the Earth and said, 'By the way dude, do not **** another man. I will seriously come down there. You don't want that.'

Thus Jeremiah looked up to the LORD awkwardly and said, 'King of Kings, Almighty One, dost thou not knock?'"

Now knowing this to be the same God who, when his prophet was mocked by little children, sent out two she bears to [url=http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Kings%202:23-2:25;&version=31;]kill over forty of them[/url] you do not want to mess with him.

Such a loving, wise and kind God must have reason to not want love to be as such. Questioning that would remove me from believing and apply critical reasoning to that which, I believe, is also a sin elsewhere.

To add to the Sodom and Gomorrah discussion, all sardonic text aside, no. It is not a definite thing as to what it is that caused the city to be destroyed.

It was either inhospitality (A very big thing to Judiasm at the time), sodomy or a combination of several of these kinds of sins. The interpretation of the "Why" of the cities' destruction has been tailored and pieced together depending upon whom you listen to.[/color]

[SunfallE]

[COLOR="goldenrod"][quote name='Rachmaninoff']And speaking of previous threads. I think I killed the last one since I was the last one to post in the thread Aaryanna was referring to. XP [/QUOTE]That's right thread killer. No more posts in here for you. :p [[SIZE="1"]I kid! ^_~[/SIZE]] Anyway...[quote name='Darren']For everyone else who can't justify their feelings: It's predjudice through and through.[/quote]I don't know about that. Its not that easy to get rid of feelings of discomfort and so long as someone isn't actively doing something to interfere with someone's right to be gay then I don't feel that it's true prejudice. I know there's different variations on what prejudice means but I've always understood it to be this one from the dictionary:
[INDENT][B]1 [/B]- unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, esp.[B] of a hostile nature[/B], regarding a racial, religious, or national group.[/INDENT]

So long as some is uncomfortable but not hostile towards someone who is different, I see nothing wrong with it. To give an example that doesn't relate to being gay but to unexplained feelings. I'm terrified of lightning. I know it's unreasonable, but I can't seem to get rid of it and I have no traumatizing events in my past to explain it.

So I think there's nothing wrong with someone having feelings they can't justify. It's when they act on those feelings that it become prejudiced. At least that's what I think.[/COLOR]

[Zen]

[color=darkred][size=1]

[b]DeathKnight[/b], you're my new hero.[/color][/size]

[Retribution]

[quote name='DeathKnight'][color=crimson]I am against homosexuality. I do fear for the state of our society when homosexuality is so allowed as it is. What will children think when people are allowed freedom to love as they wish? The impression of an accepting and open society could seriously compromise their morality. I'm unsure of what kind of a future they would mold if their impressionable minds were showed such acceptance. Ungodly and sincerely horrid.

I am aware that societies in Japan, China, Ancient Rome, Ancient Greece, Persia and Native America allowed or embraced homosexuality to varying degrees without any dire effects but remain adamantly certain that, inexplicably, after over a thousand years of homosexuality having a presence on Earth it is suddenly harmful. My reasoning for this is primarily attained from the Christian spiritual text where it says thus:

"And God looked down upon the Earth and said, 'By the way dude, do not **** another man. I will seriously come down there. You don't want that.'

Thus Jeremiah looked up to the LORD awkwardly and said, 'King of Kings, Almighty One, dost thou not knock?'"

Now knowing this to be the same God who, when his prophet was mocked by little children, sent out two she bears to [url=http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Kings%202:23-2:25;&version=31;]kill over forty of them[/url] you do not want to mess with him.

Such a loving, wise and kind God must have reason to not want love to be as such. Questioning that would remove me from believing and apply critical reasoning to that which, I believe, is also a sin elsewhere.

To add to the Sodom and Gomorrah discussion, all sardonic text aside, no. It is not a definite thing as to what it is that caused the city to be destroyed.

It was either inhospitality (A very big thing to Judiasm at the time), sodomy or a combination of several of these kinds of sins. The interpretation of the "Why" of the cities' destruction has been tailored and pieced together depending upon whom you listen to.[/color][/QUOTE]
[size=1]For a second, I thought you were being serious. What a terrifying second that was, lol.[/size]