Let's talk about drug addiction(very serious discussion)

[silpheedpilot]

[quote name='indifference'][COLOR="Indigo"]As well as not backseat modding either.

Thank you.

Also, generalizations are part and parcel of the misunderstanding about drugs in the first place, so to ask people to drop part of the whole argument around them is a bit unrealistic. Especially when people's opinion about them stem from those generalizations running around. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"][COLOR="SlateGray"]Why not frontseat mod then?

Thank you.

Either way. Illegal drugs are bad and people who are addicted to illegal drugs are bad people and thats that. Can't think of anything more generalized to say, really.

Murdering is bad and murderers are bad people. Raping is bad and rapist are bad people. Pretty much, in my generalized eye, if you do something bad then you're a bad person.

Speeding is bad so if you speed, you're a bad person. Not modding a thread makes you a bad person also and so on so forth.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='silpheedpilot'][SIZE="1"][COLOR="SlateGray"]Why not frontseat mod then?

Thank you.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/QUOTE]Either one will get you in trouble, remember that. Those report bad post buttons and pm system are there for a reason. I would have thought that you of all people have been around long enough to know that. So lets keep that sort of nonsense out of the thread please, and I do mean both of you.[/COLOR]

[KingEarthEater]

Well this is my opinion.

But I don't agree with the worlds idea of bad things.
The world would say that drugs are bad. The world would say that certain people are bad. The world would say that certain music is bad for our kids. The world would say that alcohol is bad. The world would say that mistakes are bad (which is where I'm going with this).

Now, I would agree with the world. Drugs are bad. That point has been established. But, one thing I wouldn't agree with is that mistakes are bad. Because if you make a mistake, then you should learn from that mistake. Not so much to be afraid of making a mistake at all.

You should also learn from other peoples mistakes and such. Because our life, as human beings, to me should be to learn and to step higher. Not to stay in the same dumps and not learn from our brothers and sisters who have past away.

So, to me, I would have to say, you should learn from your mistakes. If you're Father/Mother has done the drug, then you should learn from them and not do them. If you still do them, then you should only try them once. It won't help you later in life when you actually start to progress and start a living (not to sound rude at all. But I mean, "to start living" as in to start a job, have a family. The things you're [i]suppose[/i] to do).

[Aaryanna]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="goldenrod"]Well I know I was raised with all that bit about how drugs are bad, people who do them are losers, etc. And I've got former friends who are into them enough to let it ruin their lives. Which only reinforces the idea that they really are losers. :animesigh I'm sure some of them aren't I've just never dealt with any, that I know of.

But one of my former friends got into pot, and I mean really into it. Every chance she gets she's high and expects anyone around her to be high as well. Her grades have fallen since she no longer does homework and skips classes every chance she gets. She's been busted for stealing many times and recently she decided to publicly yell at me when I ran into her at the store.

Her reason? It was my fault her life was a mess since I refused to do drugs with her. So I said no and that makes it my fault? :animestun I have no idea how that works. So in the end, I think getting into drugs at all is bad for you. And I do mean the illegal stuff. It's just not worth it in the end.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[TherapySessions]

[quote name='SunfallE'][FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="goldenrod"]lol Isn't that an oxymoron to say [I]What an[B] ill-conceived and apathetic[/B][/i] [[SIZE="1"]take note that's a *gasp* generalization![/SIZE]] [i]generalisation of what are most often [B]normal people[/B]. [/I] [[SIZE="1"]there's another one![/SIZE]] Followed up by: [I]To make a generalisation myself[/I] and then turnaround and say [I]Don't generalise entire groups of people[/I] Uh... [B]o_O [/B]

You missed the whole point. ^_~ You started off by making more than one generalization to counter a previous generalization by presenting another one. And so on. lol I think its safe to say that making assumptions doesn't get one anywhere, and yet at the same time, remember, plenty of people have destroyed their lives, have done drugs because their lives were a mess. So there is some truth to that generalization whether people want to see it or not. If there wasn't any problems and people didn't do all those things there wouldn't be any push to keep them off the streets or to help people get over that addiction.

And no offense, but I'm not likely to take your word for it that people who use drugs are mostly normal, since that too is an assumption. Something drives them to do it, whether it's peer pressure, stress or other stuff. Something that isn't necessarily normal. [/COLOR][/FONT][/QUOTE]

You quite clearly missed the irony, bless, which is why I specified that I was making a generalisation. I didn't generalise a whole group of people either, just two posters on an internet message board.

To call two people ill-concieved and apathetic based on something that they said is not to make a mass generalisation, it's to make a judgment on something that they said (there is a clear difference). Of course a lot of drug users are normal people, to say that they are not is an absolute statement and completely wrong. Otherwise it would be to essentialy say that ALL drug users are abnormal, when doing drugs and normality are not mutually exclusive. Have you considered that people do drugs because they are fun, or find them interesting? Maybe they like the sensory alteration and enhancement of music? Maybe it's a part of the culture they are in.

Shall I slot you into the same box as them? Hmmm, maybe you're actually just trying to be extremely pedantic. I'm the one trying to dispell ridiculous associations here.

[quote name='SunfallE'][FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="goldenrod"][b]I think its safe to say that making assumptions doesn't get one anywhere[/b][/COLOR][/FONT][/QUOTE]

Thanks for agreeing with me.

[quote name='indifference'][COLOR="Indigo"]As well as not backseat modding either.

Thank you.

Also, generalizations are part and parcel of the misunderstanding about drugs in the first place, so to ask people to drop part of the whole argument around them is a bit unrealistic. Especially when people's opinion about them stem from those generalizations running around. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

I'm a glad that you're the moderator there, otherwise this would still be a very much one sided debate.

[quote name='Premonition'][COLOR="Navy"]Now what do you all think about drugs in Hollywood? Lyndsay Lohan got busted again and I've heard she's in rehab... again. whether she's in rehab or not, she still has to fix this. and tell me Therapysessions, are people in Hollywood really considered normal? Normal people are like you and me, we probably don't live in some big mansion and bugged by paparazzi nor do we star in movies and TV shows. So don't generalize addicts as normal people, because not all drug addicts are/were normal people. People in middle class or are poor usually are considered normal. Now people with money/fame/fortune are called famous/rich, not normal.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

I don't really care about Lyndsay Lohan, drugs in hollywood are the same as drugs anywhere else? Let people get on with it, I'd much rather people had personal freedom rather than to be looked down upon for a lifestyle choice. People in hollywood may or may not be considered "normal", I don't personally know them. Just because someone finds fame, does that render them odd (I'm really not sure what this has to do with anything btw?).

Generalisations are usually considered to be negative and that's when they become problematic. I'd hardly say that saying a drug addict is not neccesarily abnormal (opposite of normal) is the type of "generalisation" people shouldn't be making. I am trying to defend these people that idividualy you know absolutely nothing about.

[Aberinkula]

[quote name='TherapySessions']
Hmmm, maybe you're actually just trying to be extremely pedantic.
[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="Navy"]Pedantic? Ha, funniest thing I've heard all day. Really, what you said is pretty pedantic. If anything, SunfallE made a pretty valid statement not a pedantic one. You may be trying to debunk the ridiculous, but really some things you've said [I]are [/I]ridiculous. "Shall I put you into the same group as them?" SunfallE didn't say anything about addicts being losers, if I'm not mistaken. So really putting SunfallE into the generalization with me and EvaBlood wouldn't be right because nowhere did I see him call drug addicts [I]losers[/I].

And if you search inside the words, you'll find that Hollywood addiction is relevant to the case in point; drug [B]addiction[/B]. You contradicted yourself quite a few times throughout this whole thread, which sort of takes way from your argument.[/COLOR]

[TherapySessions]

[quote name='Premonition'][COLOR="Navy"]Pedantic? Ha, funniest thing I've heard all day. Really, what you said is pretty pedantic. If anything, SunfallE made a pretty valid statement not a pedantic one. You may be trying to debunk the ridiculous, but really some things you've said [I]are [/I]ridiculous. "Shall I put you into the same group as them?" SunfallE didn't say anything about addicts being losers, if I'm not mistaken. So really putting SunfallE into the generalization with me and EvaBlood wouldn't be right because nowhere did I see him call drug addicts [I]losers[/I].

And if you search inside the words, you'll find that Hollywood addiction is relevant to the case in point; drug [B]addiction[/B]. You contradicted yourself quite a few times throughout this whole thread, which sort of takes way from your argument.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

If you think that I have contradicted myself then refute my points individually.

For starters, I haven't even been reffering to drug addiction. My whole argument is based on the fact that you said drugs were for losers and somebody else assumed that drug users only use them to escape their "filthly little lives". I think that has been pretty much the basis of everything I've said. It is an absolute statement and it is literally wrong because:

[LIST]
[*]Drugs are not for losers, some people that do drugs may be "losers" anyway but quite clearly *everyone* who does drugs is not a loser. Infact a lot of drug users lead very succesful, interesting and fun lives. Therefore that statement has been completely debunked.

[*]Not everyone who does drugs uses them as an escape. Infact, everyone I know who uses drugs, including me have nothing to escape from, we quite simply love getting wrecked at the weekend for a wide variety of reasons. You can not possibly begin to comprehend my personal experience so please do not judge it. I most certainly do not lead a "filthy" life, some people do and may or may not use drugs. Statement debunked.
[/LIST]

I then made a generalisation, ironically considering the circumstances, that you probably haven't seen much of the world and are naive. All that said you obviously haven't been a part of the culture that I'm a part of and have false pretences concerning drug users. If you'd had my experience you'd think differently. It also does come across as naive to make absolute statements (I haven't made any, seriously). If you don't know what an absolute statement is, read up about it as I am absolutely certain that the points I am making are logically and realistically sound.

I do not particularly concern myself with popular culture so I'm not sure exactly what you're asking me about hollywood. I'd imagine that it's pretty similiar to anyone else doing whatever their chosen drug is, except they've got loads of cash and a big house.

[quote name='Premonition'][COLOR="Navy"]Pedantic? Ha, funniest thing I've heard all day. Really, what you said is pretty pedantic.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

I am not being pedantic. As a drug user, I took offence to you calling me a loser. It's the equivalent of prejudice against anyone, or saying that all people who are black are thieves. It would be wrong to say that as I'm sure you'd agree. It is literally wrong. Replace black/thieves with drugs/losers and you might see where I'm coming from.

[SunfallE]

[COLOR="goldenrod"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"]TherapySessions I have already gone this route with you in regards to drug issues. People are not going to agree with you and no amount of saying otherwise is going to change it. Just as I've talked to you about not continuing the same argument over and over.

It is not necessary to keep rehashing why others are wrong nor is it necessary for anyone else to keep coming back and pointing out why you could be wrong. In other words... Enough with the subtle insults going on here and derailing the thread by continuing the argument over generalizations.

So please start respecting that others don't see it the same, it's not that hard really. On some level Prem believes people who use drugs are losers and you TherapySessions don't agree. Accept it and move on. It is not necessary for either one of you to keep coming back and saying... your wrong and I'm right. It's silly and pointless at this point. Further comments like that need to be taken to IM or PM.

Also... for the record Prem... I'm a she not a him. ^_~[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="navy"][COLOR="Navy"]Sorry about that SunfallE! I just didn't know. [spoiler] God I'm dumb @_o[/spoiler][/COLOR]

Anyways, my friend buys containers of 'Wild Bill's Beef Jerky Chew' so he can kick his old chew habit. Now doing that is really smart. I find it better than cold turkey really. What's weird is that they even have a rehab for video gamers, heard it on the news. What can't you get addicted to now a-days?

I watched King of the Hill and Bobby was doong a project with this girl. Little did he know that she had him get ingrediants for Crystal Meth. I was amazed how easily you can get such ingrediants.[/COLOR]

[Ellerby]

[FONT="Tahoma"][COLOR="DimGray"]So in all of this "drugs makes you bad" crap, where do the people that do drugs (or drug in my case) and haven't suffered side effects (like losing friends, ruining your education and all that random stuff) fit in?

I mean just because you smoke... [I]the [b]W[/b] word[/I]... casually doesn't make you a loser or (more on-topic) addicted. People think once you do something like pot you're automatically hooked and become dependent on it. While this may be true for some harder drugs (and I [i]do[/i] know people that have tried hard drugs like cocaine and stopped after their first experience) it's not for weed.

[B]Example:[/B] I went camping for four days this week and couldn't smoke at all. I didn't care and I still had a great time. But I still like smoking. It doesn't control my life and if my grades actually did start slipping (which they haven't) I would stop (at least until summer).[/COLOR][/FONT]

[KingEarthEater]

[quote name='White'][FONT="Tahoma"][COLOR="DimGray"]So in all of this "drugs makes you bad" crap, where do the people that do drugs (or drug in my case) and haven't suffered side effects (like losing friends, ruining your education and all that random stuff) fit in? [/COLOR][/FONT][/QUOTE]

I think most of that stuff is for those who are addicted. Not so much for those who it hasn't affected.
Though most people would think it would affect people who do drugs in the long run if it isn't hurting them now. Then they would think that if you tried to stop, you couldn't because you [i]would be[/i] addicted to the drug.

Thats just what I heard from being in school (which most of the time they don't know what they're talking about).

[Aaryanna]

[COLOR="goldenrod"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"][quote name='White;785893][FONT="Tahoma"][COLOR="DimGray"]So in all of this "drugs makes you bad" crap, where do the people that do drugs (or drug in my case) and haven't suffered side effects (like losing friends, ruining your education and all that random stuff) fit in? [/COLOR][/FONT][/QUOTE]In all this whole debate I often wonder why we even care what others think of it or why we have to fit in or be considered either a loser or not one. Why we feel the urge to label others as bad or good depending on what they have or haven't done. Or why we get upset since someone doesn't like what we do. [quote name='White;785893][FONT="Tahoma"][COLOR="DimGray"]I mean just because you smoke... [I]the [b]W[/b] word[/I]... casually doesn't make you a loser or (more on-topic) addicted. People think once you do something like pot you're automatically hooked and become dependent on it. While this may be true for some harder drugs (and I [i]do[/i] know people that have tried hard drugs like cocaine and stopped after their first experience) it's not for weed.[/COLOR][/FONT][/QUOTE]Didn't this already get covered? Also, did you gloss over my post? The friend I spoke of [B]did ruin her life over weed[/B]. XP I think becoming dependent is more than just the drug, but other factors in one's life probably contributes. Though I'm sure some of the harder drugs are very addictive on their own.[QUOTE=White'][FONT="Tahoma"][COLOR="DimGray"][B]Example:[/B] I went camping for four days this week and couldn't smoke at all. I didn't care and I still had a great time. But I still like smoking. It doesn't control my life and if my grades actually did start slipping (which they haven't) I would stop (at least until summer).[/COLOR'][/FONT][/quote]That's good to know, but honestly I've seen weed smokers who can't stop. Who couldn't go [B]one day[/B] let alone four without smoking.

Try to understand, some of us aren't instantly labeling those who've tried it as losers. But for those ones who do allow it to control their lives, they certainly don't make it look like a smart thing to do. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[eleanor]

[quote name='White'][FONT="Tahoma"][COLOR="DimGray"]So in all of this "drugs makes you bad" crap, where do the people that do drugs (or drug in my case) and haven't suffered side effects (like losing friends, ruining your education and all that random stuff) fit in?
[/COLOR][/FONT][/QUOTE]

[font="trebuchet ms"] I don't think anyone is really talking about people who use drugs recreation-wise and don't get addicted. They're all talking about people who [i]are [/i] addicted.

[/font]

[IHZ]

Yeah I pretty much agree on this. not many peoples take drugs for their "medical" or "health" good nowaday. they usely do them to go on big high trips which makes them look and act foolishly. however, I've tried some to my own regret in my early teenager years and it doesn't really interest me, Pot makes me go really really sick. however, the only drugs I've done is alcohol and pot, I rejected pot but since I live in Canada and that I am 18, thus I can legally drink, I sometime like to drink a bit without abusing or even geting drunk. I usually do it when I meet up with my parents on a summer afternoon or when I'm with friends talking and enjoying life. I don't say that with pride but since I more precisely live in Quebec. Beer is somehow a tradition here and it's almost a tradition to take up a fresh beer when meeting with an old buddy:animeswea

[Aaryanna_Mom]

My views haven't really changed on this. I still think illegal drugs are bad and not worth one's time. I've heard the argument over and over about how one can do them and not be addicted and I'm sure that's true. It doesn't change the fact that many people do become addicted and destroy their lives as well as harm those they love in the process.

I've seen people destroy themselves over the hard drugs to the small time stuff such as Weed/pot. Just about anything can be an addiction if it is interfering with your life. From the workaholic to the druggie to one who is drunk all the time. Moderation is the key really. Provided it's legal that is.

Regardless if something is considered harmless, I've seen many friends lose their jobs after being caught in a random drug screen. At that point, that harmless habit of getting high on the weekends is no longer so harmless anymore. And when you've got a family and kids to support, losing your job is no joke.

My opinion on drugs stems from seeing those who were devastated by something they thought was harmless and hurt no one.

[Red]

[quote name='Aaryanna_Mom']I've seen people destroy themselves over the hard drugs to the small time stuff such as Weed/pot. Just about anything can be an addiction if it is interfering with your life. From the workaholic to the druggie to one who is drunk all the time. Moderation is the key really. Provided it's legal that is.
[/QUOTE]

I completely agree that moderation is the key. What I don't get is why legality matters, unless you mean with regards to avoiding da fedz. If someone's able to moderate their weed (or another drug, but not the physically addictive ones such as heroin or meth) intake, what makes it any worse than having a few beers every now and then?

[Aaryanna_Mom]

[quote name='Red;786133]I completely agree that moderation is the key. What I don't get is why legality matters, unless you mean with regards to avoiding da fedz. If someone's able to moderate their weed (or another drug, but not the physically addictive ones such as heroin or meth) intake, what makes it any worse than having a few beers every now and then?[/QUOTE]You completely missed my point so I'll say it again:[QUOTE=Aaryanna_Mom']Regardless if something is considered harmless, I've seen many friends lose their jobs after being caught in a random drug screen. At that point, that harmless habit of getting high on the weekends is no longer so harmless anymore. And when you've got a family and kids to support, losing your job is no joke.

My opinion on drugs stems from seeing those who were devastated by something they thought was harmless and hurt no one.[/QUOTE]As a parent, doing something that regardless of being considered harmless that can seriously mess up your family, is irresponsible. All I'm saying is like drinking or anything else, it's important to take the possible consequences into account.

It's not an issue of a few beers is not any worse, it's an issue of losing one's job for testing positive for something like Weed. I've seen it happen over the years. Perhaps I'm outdated here, but when you decide to bring a kid into this world and raise them, your desire to get drunk or high should never come before their welfare and the welfare of your family as a whole.

In other words, until it's legal, it's best to leave it alone in the first place. Regardless of whether or not it's harmless, since right now there are legal repercussions that are not harmless. I'm not arguing against them being made legal, I'm arguing against those who do them and run the risk of messing up their family.

The argument over it's no worse than a couple of beers is something I leave up to others. I've no desire to argue for making them legal. ;)