Homosexuality 101, seriously?

[Flagg]

[SIZE="1"][B]I lost the argument to indifference and agreed that if sexual education is goin to be taught in school then homosexuality should be covered because we will never know if it will do any good unless we try. I bowed out and intended to stay out of this but I've seen some things that just made me think wow. I really can't believe that some of you think the majority of people who hate homosexuals hate them because they fear the unknown as humanity often does. I'll make it clear for you I guess. People don't like homosexuals because they personally think it is sick. You can't teach someone in school to get over that fact thus I think it would'nt make much difference to teach about it in school. Like I said before though indifference beat me with a simple statement. You never know until you try, doing nothing will get nothing done. I just don't understand how some of you can try to mask the problem though and say that it will all be solved with understanding.

I look forward to the kinda responses I get from this lol :animeswea[/B][/SIZE]

[Rachmaninoff]

[quote name='Flagg'][SIZE="1"][B]I lost the argument to indifference and agreed that if sexual education is goin to be taught in school then homosexuality should be covered because we will never know if it will do any good unless we try. I bowed out and intended to stay out of this but I've seen some things that just made me think wow. I really can't believe that some of you think the majority of people who hate homosexuals hate them because they fear the unknown as humanity often does. I'll make it clear for you I guess. People don't like homosexuals because they personally think it is sick. You can't teach someone in school to get over that fact thus I think it would'nt make much difference to teach about it in school. Like I said before though indifference beat me with a simple statement. You never know until you try, doing nothing will get nothing done. I just don't understand how some of you can try to mask the problem though and say that it will all be solved with understanding.

I look forward to the kinda responses I get from this lol :animeswea[/B][/SIZE][/QUOTE]Oh there's no need to stay out of it if you see another point that you want to discuss. ;) And part of what I'm going to say will tie into what indifference is talking about. Even if people think homosexuality is sick, learning more about it can help to foster tolerance instead of outright hatred, and that's really what school is about, giving people more than word of mouth or hearsay to go on. And yes, more than religious beliefs since we live in a world with lots of different views in that respect. I don't think people are expecting them to get over it or somehow start thinking it's normal.

And rest assured it's not meant to mask it or think understanding will make it go away, but like Aaryanna mentioned, in Utah, the misconception that people learn to be gay is common. So until you try to get people to think that it might be the way they are, nothing will change. And its sad to see them shunning a part of society over their sexual preference.

It's all about having all the possibilities out there and letting people decide for themselves what they choose to believe. Right now the usual move is to not discuss it, to not teach about it and to preach that it's a sin. Well at least here that's the case and though I no longer attend church, the one I was born and raised in would even cast you out if you didn't change and become straight. >_<

So just as you find it hard to believe that some of us think more understanding will help, I don't understand why people think it's useless to even try. I mean, I could understand that statement if we did teach it, but we don't. And in my opinion if that education helps even just a little, to cut down on the hatred or misunderstandings, it's worth it.

[Flagg]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by [B]Rachmaninoff[/B]
[I][SIZE="1"]So just as you find it hard to believe that some of us think more understanding will help, I don't understand why people think it's useless to even try. I mean, I could understand that statement if we did teach it, but we don't. And in my opinion if that education helps even just a little, to cut down on the hatred or misunderstandings, it's worth it.[/SIZE][/I][/QUOTE]

[B][SIZE="1"]Sorry, I tryed to say that I agreed with teaching about it in school I hope I didnt come across as seeing it the other way. I just wanted to get in my opinion the real reason out there since I do happen to think that some people see it a different way.
It really would be hard to hate because of the unknown in this case I think. Even kids have feelings of love I know this to be a fact. So if a boy has feelings of love for a girl, and he sees some other boy who has feelings of love for another boy. You cant hold it against him if the other boy just sickens him a lil bit (sry that sounded bad). Even if he doesnt hold it against the other boy at all you cant get rid of that feeling since he himself doesnt have feelings like that for other boys. Something simple like that is all it takes so really I don't see what there is for people to not understand and thus hate about homosexuals. What it comes down to is the person in question. If they want to hate then they will hate if not then they wont. That isnt just for homosexuals that goes for pretty much anything and there is nothing to "teach" to these hate proned people.[/SIZE][/B]

maybe the hostile misunderstanding goes both ways eh? O_o

[Sandy]

[quote name='Flagg'][B][SIZE="1"]If they want to hate then they will hate if not then they wont. That isnt just for homosexuals that goes for pretty much anything and there is nothing to "teach" to these hate proned people.[/SIZE][/B][/QUOTE]

You seem to have a rather cynical view of the world, apparently. So you're saying nothing will stop homophobic people hate homosexuals, so no one should even try? How do you know that?

In my experience ignorance is the greatest reason for homophobia. Like it's said in other posts, people tend to fear what they don't know. I can totally understand how two guys in an intimate relationship with each other might be repulsive to a person who hasn't encountered it before in his/her life - let alone if that person's own child/relative turning out to be gay/lesbian. But to say the person can [I]never[/I] learn to accept homosexuals is downright silly - it would be the same to say that a racist can never learn to accept other races. When it all boils down, we're all just human beings each with our own quirks.

As an example, I could sense my relatives were quite shocked when I came out (although they didn't say anything aloud), but after a while they got used to me having a boyfriend, and now it isn't a big or even small deal anymore. After all, homosexuality is so much more than what happens in the bedroom.

That's also the reason why kids need to be taught about different walks of life - so that they could grow up to be balanced, unprejudiced adults who can make their own decisions.

[Flagg]

[B][SIZE="1"]I get the same response everytime this is goin nowhere fast so this is my last post on the subject. Yes I'm saying that nothing will stop them from hating except themselves and no I don't think other people will make much of a difference in the matter. Some people simply grow up and learn to accept things and others stay kids for the rest of their lives.

But I don't think that should stop us from trying.
I wish everyone would stop implying that I think we shouldn't even try because if you think thats what I think then you just have not been paying much attention to what I've been saying >.<

this is starting to turn into a nuh uh ya hu argument i think it should stop soon
[/SIZE][/B]

[Warmside]

[quote name='Flagg'][B][SIZE="1"]Some people simplely grow up and learn to accept things and others stay kids for the rest of their lives.[/SIZE][/B][/QUOTE][COLOR="SlateGray"]

No, they don't. People are products of their environments - if their environment is hostile and ignorant towards homosexuals, than the people will reflect this opinion. You can't simply say "So it goes." and let the cycle of ignorance propagate when there are steps that can be taken to educate people and eradicate it![/COLOR]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='Flagg'][B][SIZE="1"]I get the same response everytime this is goin nowhere fast so this is my last post on the subject. Yes I'm saying that nothing will stop them from hating except themselves and no I don't think other people will make much of a difference in the matter. Some people simply grow up and learn to accept things and others stay kids for the rest of their lives.

But I don't think that should stop us from trying.
I wish everyone would stop implying that I think we shouldn't even try because if you think thats what I think then you just have not been paying much attention to what I've been saying >.<

this is starting to turn into a nuh uh ya hu argument i think it should stop soon
[/SIZE][/B][/QUOTE]I don't get the impression that you think we shouldn't try. ;) I get the impression that you wonder if trying will actually have an effect.

Also I don't see anything wrong with a boy being sickened by seeing another boy liking a boy instead of a girl. Some of that is only natural if they are straight. It's uncomfortable for them.

I think what's derailing people here is they are trying to say that without a more open environment, it's easier to hate since they are ignorant in many respects. They don't have the whole picture or rather they don't know what other people think on the subject.

You on the other hand seem to think that even with knowing it won't make much of a difference, they'll still hate it. So it brings us back to our original discussion where we agreed that until we try we won't know.

So rest assured, it's easy to see that you are not against trying, only that you have doubts that it will work.[quote name='Warmside'][COLOR="SlateGray"]No, they don't. People are products of their environments - if their environment is hostile and ignorant towards homosexuals, than the people will reflect this opinion. You can't simply say "So it goes." and let the cycle of ignorance propagate when there are steps that can be taken to educate people and eradicate it![/COLOR][/QUOTE]Although that is true to a certain extent, it is also not true in the sense that people do move beyond that in spite of their environment. Otherwise, change would never happen. You're missing what Flagg was saying here. That statement you quoted is true, you can put something in front of someone and they will still choose to stick with what they know and hate instead of 'growing up' where others will become more tolerant.

The illusion that showing people differently will be all that it takes, is just that, an illusion. For some it will, but for some, that hatred will never be dropped. It's sad but true. But on the other side, there are plenty of people who once they learn more, will at least tolerate it instead of hating. [/COLOR]

[eleanor]

[quote name='Premonition'][COLOR="DarkSlateGray"]Tyler, I will hate you for the rest of our lives on OB, I promise you that. Error of their ways? Can you be anymore stubborn? It's the way they are, you can't say "have some god for breakfest, it'll show you you are bad." I believe in god and Jesus, and I believe he's our savior. But no way in hell do I think homosexuality is wrong. I mean "god made them that way!" from what I've learned. And god doesn't make mistakes, cause he's God. Am I right Tyler?

I think it makes no sense to think homosexuals are errors, because if your homosexual, and god created you, obviosuly it isn't bad. Unless the devil is in on it, if so then run away! God teaches you to love and respect, not hate and banish. This maybe your opinion, but I disagree completely. You may have said no outrage, but I will not restrain myself from firing back about it. I may be straight, but I don't think homosexuality is wrong at all. In fact, any homosexual is cool with me, I only discriminate if the person is evil or good, cause really that's all that matters.

I love god , I'm thankful for what he gave me and thankful for the earth he created, but to believe he thinks homosexuality is wrong? That is not the god I know.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[font="trebuchet ms"] Look, I don't really understand why some Christians adopt this "homosexuality is ok" standard. It's pretty clear in the bible that homosexuality is a sin. You can bring in "the Bible has been translated thousands of times" and whatever else, but homosexuality is a sin to Christians. Your argument is completely useless. It's like saying greedy people are ok because God made them.

Tyler clearly stated that "although I do NOT by any means believe in or support homosexuality, I will not hate, but will love them as brothers and sisters (as they are) and pray that the Good Lord might help them see the error of their ways." How else is a Christian supposed to act? Disregard the bible and act like homosexuality isn't a sin because our present youth society is supportive of gays? If for some reason people started accepting murderers as good people, would Christians adopt a 'murder isn't a sin' idea?

Religion isn't something that should change with the times. It does, but then it violates the roots of the faith.

Do I agree with him? No. I think his arguments against educating people about gays is stupid. But you're being just as stupid.

The biggest problem about arguers like Tyler, though, is that they use the bible to back up bigger accusations. A lot of people don't realize that being a gay isn't supposed to be a bigger sin than adultery. Sin is equal, and everyone does it. It's just that Christians use their 'homosexuality is a sin' to make it more than what it is.
[/font]

[Warmside]

[QUOTE]
Although that is true to a certain extent, it is also not true in the sense that people do move beyond that in spite of their environment. Otherwise, change would never happen. You're missing what Flagg was saying here. That statement you quoted is true, you can put something in front of someone and they will still choose to stick with what they know and hate instead of 'growing up' where others will become more tolerant.

The illusion that showing people differently will be all that it takes, is just that, an illusion. For some it will, but for some, that hatred will never be dropped. It's sad but true. But on the other side, there are plenty of people who once they learn more, will at least tolerate it instead of hating.[/QUOTE][COLOR="SlateGray"]

I never said it would happen over night, but gradually the culture of condescension against homosexuality will erode as people become more educated on the subject. The result is that people will grow up in a friendly, open environment that will breed more friendly, open people. Is it the rule? Of course not, there will [I]always[/I] be people who just can't get their mind past basic prejudices... but there's a difference to be made. [/COLOR]

[QUOTE]
Look, I don't really understand why some Christians adopt this "homosexuality is ok" standard. It's pretty clear in the bible that homosexuality is a sin. You can bring in "the Bible has been translated thousands of times" and whatever else, but homosexuality is a sin to Christians. Your argument is completely useless. It's like saying greedy people are ok because God made them.
[/QUOTE][COLOR="SlateGray"]

This infuriates me. Have you ever [I]read[/I] Leviticus, the part of the bible where homosexuality is called a sin? It reads like a page out of Mein Kampf. Some highlights include a passage saying cripples may not approach alters because they 'profane it' and warning people to avoid wizards. Not to mention all the time it condones slavery. It's an absurd text. If you take the anti-homosexual passages literally, why do you ignore the rest? Do you think cripples and lepers are sinners and think owning people is A-OK? No? Than why do you think homosexuality is a sin?

Hypocrite.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]Religion isn't something that should change with the times. It does, but then it violates the roots of the faith.[/QUOTE][COLOR="SlateGray"]

"Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'."

Words of a true prophet. If you can't change, you die. Just ask the woolly mammoth and sabre-tooth tiger.[/COLOR]

[Rachmaninoff]

People, this has been pretty civil so far, so lets not derail the thread by tossing in insults of, I hate you, your argument is stupid, your being equally as stupid or calling someone a hypocrite. It's not necessary, you can get your point across without that kind of stuff in there, so please do.

[eleanor]

[quote name='Warmside'][COLOR="SlateGray"]

This infuriates me. Have you ever [I]read[/I] Leviticus, the part of the bible where homosexuality is called a sin? It reads like a page out of Mein Kampf. Some highlights include a passage saying cripples may not approach alters because they 'profane it' and warning people to avoid wizards. Not to mention all the time it condones slavery. It's an absurd text. If you take the anti-homosexual passages literally, why do you ignore the rest? Do you think cripples and lepers are sinners and think owning people is A-OK? No? Than why do you think homosexuality is a sin?

Hypocrite.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[font="trebuchet ms"]

Yes, I have read the part in Leviticus -- the "homosexuality is a sin" bit -- to which you refer. And, yes, I'm familiar with various passages that forbid certain actions of cripples, lepers, slaves, etc.

One very important thing, however, I think you fail to understand is that the first coming and death of Jesus Christ brought forth a new covenant between God and all the different peoples of the world. A new covenant whose purpose was to override existing traditions ("cripples may not approach alters") and discriminations ("warning people to avoid wizards"; slavery; leprosy stigma). How?, you might be wondering. The answer is love. That was Jesus' message to the world.

The Bible clearly states that loving your neighbor is one of the most important commandments. An important thing to keep in mind is that Jesus didn't operate within the workings of human society, a society that condemned cripples and condoned slavery. Jesus came to mend the iniquities of human society, with (as I mentioned above) his message of love. One really good example: Jesus saves Mary Madgalene, a prostitute condemned by her society, from being stoned to death. Jesus also embraced the lepers, cripples, and all the outcasts of society. You'll most likely always see Jesus curing/healing the sickly and marginalized, not the rich and well-off.

So, you see, you can't compare "homosexuality is a sin" to "acceptance of discrimination/social iniquities like poor treatment of cripples, gypsies, slaves, and lepers." Why? Because Jesus preached a message that condemned the acceptance of discrimination/social iniquities. I'm 100% sure that Jesus would condemn discrimination of homosexuals, too, as he loved all peoples. So. I'm not, in your words, taking the anti-homosexual passages literally and ignoring the rest. [/font]

[quote name='Warmside'][COLOR="SlateGray"]

"Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'."

Words of a true prophet. If you can't change, you die. Just ask the woolly mammoth and sabre-tooth tiger.[/color][/quote]

[font="trebuchet ms"] I'm not saying change in religion is bad altogether. Take Protestantism, for example. In the 40s and 5'0s Billy Graham was a fundamentalist protestant that pretty much condemned everyone as sinful and on their way to hell, but eventually as he rose in popularity his message became more subtle and more consoling. It has happened to protestantism everywhere- there's no more hell and brimstone preaching, but there's more focus on the people and retribution.

And lastly, I never sad I thought homosexuality was a sin. Did I ever say I was a Christian? No. [/font]

[Tyler Koregaten]

[quote name='Premonition'][COLOR="DarkSlateGray"]Tyler, I will hate you for the rest of our lives on OB, I promise you that. Error of their ways? Can you be anymore stubborn? It's the way they are, you can't say "have some god for breakfest, it'll show you you are bad." I believe in god and Jesus, and I believe he's our savior. But no way in hell do I think homosexuality is wrong. I mean "god made them that way!" from what I've learned. And god doesn't make mistakes, cause he's God. Am I right Tyler?

I think it makes no sense to think homosexuals are errors, because if your homosexual, and god created you, obviosuly it isn't bad. Unless the devil is in on it, if so then run away! God teaches you to love and respect, not hate and banish. This maybe your opinion, but I disagree completely. You may have said no outrage, but I will not restrain myself from firing back about it. I may be straight, but I don't think homosexuality is wrong at all. In fact, any homosexual is cool with me, I only discriminate if the person is evil or good, cause really that's all that matters.

I love god , I'm thankful for what he gave me and thankful for the earth he created, but to believe he thinks homosexuality is wrong? That is not the god I know.

Anyways, I belive it should be tought to 10 year olds but I'd hold of on the sex part until they're older. Other than that, I'd be fine learning about it, even though I may get uncomfortable. [/COLOR]



I secoond that motion. Who does he think he is? Preaching what's rright an what's wrong. Not to sound mean or anything, but people like him make me sick.[/QUOTE]

At least the right people hate me. Anyhow, God did NOT make them that way. Homosexuality is sin, and sin comes from Satan, and homosexuality isn't simply just incorporated into a person's being at a whim, but it is learned and accepted by people through temptation.

[I]Thou shalt not lie with a man as with a woman, for it is detestable. - Leviticus 18:22[/I] - if you don't believe, be my guest and read the scripture. (chapters 17-20 of Leviticus are the Laws of Sexual Morality)

If God did not believe homosexuality was wrong, why would He command that to Moses to be told to the people of Israel? That is the God [I]I[/I] I know.

Also, Sandy, that alchemist thing was a JOKE. Good Lord, do you think I actually meant that? Anyhow, I do hope that I've proven my point. I do pray that the Lord might enlighten you and certain others to that which you've gotten wrong.

Also, James, you said I know nothing of homosexuality and that I am bashing it. I DO know about it, because my cousin, Geof, was homosexual. However, with the Lord's help, my pastor and I, as well as other great Christian leaders, were able to show him the huge sin he'd gotten himself into. Using the Bible and examples from it, we were able to rehabilitate him and he is now happily married to his wife Clarissa and they have an five-month-old daughter. They are now a happy Christian family and Geof says he is so glad to know that his past his behind him and that he can live in peace with God.

Helping Geof through this, I learned a great deal about his struggles and I now help with the Way Back homosexual rehabilitation program at my church.

I hope I've shared my points.

Thanks and God Bless,
Tyler

[James]

[color=#606060]I think that post speaks for itself really. Others who read it can make a judgement about whether or not they agree - that's up to them. I think if you view anything through a particular ideological prism, you will end up with a result that is less than accurate.

And I think, even more fundamentally, we have to consider the general idea of human dignity (whether or not we think a particular trait is right or wrong).

Anyway, the issue here is not whether homosexuality is right or wrong - I would say that this is probably a moot point in some respects. Those who choose to view the issue through a prism of fundamentalist ideology will always arrive at the same outcome. And those who choose to view the issue in a more scientific and/or objective sense are also usually going to arrive at a shared outcome as well (although probably not exactly the same).

The overriding point is, I think, the issue of sex education in general (and by extension, whether or not you think homosexuality should be discussed as part of it).

I mean, as I said before, I think it would be hard to suggest that less education (or education distorted by a particular ideology) is preferable for anyone. Education in and of itself is usually a neutral thing - what matters is giving people the freedom to make a choice.

If someone goes through that education and still makes a choice one way or the other (negative or positive), at least they're doing so based on something substantive.[/color]

[Retribution]

[quote name='Tyler Koregaten']Also, Sandy, that alchemist thing was a JOKE. Good Lord, do you think I actually meant that? Anyhow, I do hope that I've proven my point. I do pray that the Lord might enlighten you and certain others to that which you've gotten wrong.[/QUOTE]
[font=Arial]But you were so adamant about being an alchemist! I guess I'll take your newfound faith in Jesus Christ the Almighty Lord and Savior as a joke as well. I mean, the entire act is rather funny. Are you trying to bait?[/font]

[Tyler Koregaten]

please do not say such things about me.

As a band director I've only ever asked three things of my students.

1) do not lie to me
2) do not steal from me
3) do not question my faith

I ask the same of you now. My faith in Christ Jesus is the most sincere thing about my life. I'm a lot of things, and have been called a lot things, but above all, I am a Christian.

I do not mean to insult anyone, I merely try to share what I think and feel. Many atheistic people say that Christianity or religion in general is an insult to those that don't believe that way. I now say that atheism and atheistic "neutral" outlooks are insulting to me.

I cry for those you who don't have Jesus.

Might you take Him into your hearts.

God be with you

[Sandy]

[quote name='Tyler Koregaten']
Also, Sandy, that alchemist thing was a JOKE. Good Lord, do you think I actually meant that?[/quote]

Yes, I believed you. You were so convincing. *rolls eyes*
[quote=Tyler Koregaten]I DO know about it, because my cousin, Geof, was homosexual. However, with the Lord's help, my pastor and I, as well as other great Christian leaders, were able to show him the huge sin he'd gotten himself into. Using the Bible and examples from it, we were able to rehabilitate him and he is now happily married to his wife Clarissa and they have an five-month-old daughter. They are now a happy Christian family and Geof says he is so glad to know that his past his behind him and that he can live in peace with God.

Helping Geof through this, I learned a great deal about his struggles and I now help with the Way Back homosexual rehabilitation program at my church.[/quote]

This proves that you don't know anything about homosexuality - you don't [I]understand[/I] it - you only know about bashing people in the head with the bible. What you did to your cousin is one of the most horrible things that a human being can do to another in my opinion - brainwashing. It seems you and your good pastor forced him to deny the way he was born. I don't know, your cousin could've been happily involved with this process, since he was raised to believe homosexuality was something detestful and horrible - just like you are. But that doesn't make the program any less barbaric and brutal.

But let's face it: homosexuality is no longer categorized neither a crime nor a sickness in civilized societies. Gay relationships hurt or abuse absolutely no one (except those little-minded people who can't stand seeing others' happiness). It's people like you and your twisted, hypocritical faith that has made millions of gay men, lesbians and transgendered people suffer over the course of centuries.

You really need to grow up into the real world and not live in the "heavenly cloud castle" you've built yourself. We gay people deserve our place in this world - we've suffered enough thanks to the likes of you.

[2010DigitalBoy]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Wait, are we taking the alchemist seriously? I would never believe anything that comes out of that guy's mouth. I doubt a real god's man would even be here surounding himself by liberal freaks and gay rights activists. Sorry, there's just no way I can take this seriously.[/COLOR]

[Sandy]

[quote name='2007DigitalBoy'][COLOR="DarkOrange"]Wait, are we taking the alchemist seriously? I would never believe anything that comes out of that guy's mouth. I doubt a real god's man would even be here surounding himself by liberal freaks and gay rights activists. Sorry, there's just no way I can take this seriously.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Ouch... You're right... I ate what the troll offered. XP

But that doesn't make the thought of "gay rehabilitation" any less repulsive and despicable to me. I mean, one can disagree on things, but no one has the right to [I]force[/I] people to change their thinking.

[Ikillion]

[quote name='Sandy']I mean, one can disagree on things, but no one has the right to [I]force[/I] people to change their thinking.[/QUOTE]

[FONT="Trebuchet MS"][COLOR=#001824][SIZE="1"]Welcome to America, enjoy your stay.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="DarkSlateGray"]Because it's church sandy, they think they are the finite word in all. That's what makes poeple like him sick. Idiotic psuedo-preists passing on as god warriors when they have no compassion for anyone. The power of God has judgement over all? Face it Tyler, your 'sins' don't scare people. Tell homosexuals they are wrong all you want, it'll just keep showing how sick and disgusting the church really is. I may love Jesus, but these riligious brainwashings are a load of dog crap, no matter what you say.

Changing people, that makes the church the opposite of what it teaches. Brainwashing your cousin was not love, it was hate for what he is. People like Tyler make me hate the fact that I'm Chistian.

Sandy is right, stop doing this to them! You can't change the world god made. Humanity is starting to become sick, gays are humans too stop treating them like beasts. Love thy neighbore no matter who they are.
I've had enough of the hate.[/COLOR]

[2010DigitalBoy]

[quote name='Sandy']Ouch... You're right... I ate what the troll offered. XP

But that doesn't make the thought of "gay rehabilitation" any less repulsive and despicable to me. I mean, one can disagree on things, but no one has the right to [I]force[/I] people to change their thinking.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]I believe the exression is 'you fed the troll' :p

Anyway, anyone with sense would fnd that detestable, which only supports m idea that he's lying his *** off for kicks. Come on, how dumb do you have to be to talk like that on a forum like this? He's been here long enough to know what ou memberbase is like, and he knows how to get you riled up. He's just sayng ****.

Also, Prem, you are officially the best Christian ever XD

EDIT: what indiff said >_>[/COLOR]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR="Indigo"]This isn't about whether or not homosexuality is wrong people. Or about changing them or converting them. It's about whether or not homosexuality should be included in sex ed. So lets try to stick to the topic and not get too far off on these tangents. Either you support the education being put in school or you don't. And though a certain amount of explaining why you think they shouldn't include it in sex ed is acceptable, derailing the thread to the point that it's lost isn't.

Quit feeding the troll guys. [/COLOR]

[Sandy]

[quote name='2007DigitalBoy'][COLOR="DarkOrange"]I believe the exression is 'you fed the troll' :p[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

No, I didn't feed the troll. That comes [I]before[/I] the troll posts. I got myself provoked by the troll, so I ate what he offered.

And [B]Ikillion[/B], I'm glad that I'm [I]not[/I] in America. ;P

To return to the topic at hand, I think it's no wonder that many of the extremist churches don't want sex education at schools - it would make them lose some of the hold they have on people when the youth would learn that sex is actually okay if you do it safely and when both sides are ready for it (at least that's how it's taught in my country). I don't oppose total abstinence until marriage, but it's not like it's the sole option everyone should choose.

I guess the main point everyone should realize is that teaching things about sexuality doesn't mean "go and do it now". The same goes for teaching about different sexual orientations. Education is the base of civilization, and that goes for sex as well.

[SunfallE]

[COLOR="goldenrod"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"][quote name='Sandy']And [B]Ikillion[/B], I'm glad that I'm [I]not[/I] in America. ;P[/QUOTE]Don't let a few extreme people throw you off. *pokes* I assure you that there are plenty of us who are far from narrow-minded when it comes to this sort of thing. Besides, you know you want to come here Sandy, just so I can show you around. America is beautiful. ^_~

Anyway, when it comes to education I am completely for it. I'm of the opinion that arming kids with the complete picture instead of one where an aspect of life is ignored is the best way to go. Keeping people in the dark doesn't help anything, it just makes things worse. Sometimes I'm surprised why someone's sex life is such a big deal. No matter how much you claim it, the reality is that what happens behind closed doors does not affect you. I think the real damage comes from trying to put blinders on kids, not from someone being gay. lol [/FONT][/COLOR]

[Gavin]

[SIZE="1"]To try and lighten the mood in this thread a little...[/SIZE]

[quote name='Sandy']Education is the base of civilization, and that goes for sex as well.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Sex is the base of civilisation ?[/SIZE]