The Sex thread

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]I can't think of how to properly phrase the questions due to the fact that my brain is only functioning at half speed so bear with me please. I'm just curious about how people learned about sex (school, parents, Cinemax?) What myths, truths, facts or rumors did you have to go on? Anything you wish you just didn't know (Or see, because I can imagine some of us have some scarring in our lives from things we wish we'd never seen) Or maybe some emberassing stories?

Also a more serious question. (I'm covering all bases tonight) Do you think that abstinence is important? Should you wait to have sex after marriage or does it just matter that you're mature enough to make that type of decision?

Just remember to keep it clean since this isn't an adult site, so please don't get too graphic. No one really wants to know every single detail.

As for myself: I went to school during the Clinton administration but my health teacher was very conservative. So the sex-ed class left much to be desired. My mom covered a lot of the basics with me (sometimes I wish she hadn't) and even took me to get birth control pills.

I know not everyone wants all the intimate details, but for me it wasn't all that exciting the first time. Infact it was lack luster and I wished I had a book. :D The phrase 'We are not amused' flashed in my head a few times. And I was convinced my roommates in college had lied to me.

As for the abstinence question. I didn't exactly wait and I don't believe my kids will either. I think it's all about personal choices. But you should make sure that you're ready to do something that big. Of course in that same breath: You test drive a car before you buy it so why shouldn't you sleep with someone you're thinking of marrying?

Sorry, I'll try to think better tomorrow. But other opinions would be appreciated.[/color][/font]

[The13thMan]

[COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]Abstinence has its up-sides, without a doubt. You lessen the chances of contracting an STD or an unwanted pregnancy. And there are a good amount of other things to take into account.

That said, no i don't really care about abstinence. I think if a person wants to have sex he/she should totally go for it. It's just important that you're smart about it. Use protection, mainly. I don't recommend f-ing everything that moves, but if you want to have sex then by golly gosh, have sex!

I don't like it when the only reason a person abstanes from sex is because of religious reasons. Religion shouldn't be something that controls your life and makes all the decisions for you. Religion should work with you. Live the life you want to live. Honestly, i believe if God is going to send you to hell for having premarital sex then he is a truly sick and twisted god to be sure. What kinda guy gives us all these sexual feelings and then tells us not to have sex? Ah, but now i'm getting off topic. =D

Anyways, anybody want to have sex?
[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Nerdsy]

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman'][color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]
Of course in that same breath: You test drive a car before you buy it so why shouldn't you sleep with someone you're thinking of marrying? [/color][/font][/QUOTE]

[color=deeppink]Because people aren't objects?[/color]

[AzureWolf]

[COLOR=maroon]My wonder always is: why NOT wait until marriage? If this guy or girl you will break up with tomorrow was really "the one true love" and not just a way to tame your lust, then it should be no big deal. If you think it solidifies a relationship, then you are right. However, why solidify doomed relationships? To make it that much harder to move on? To ensure that the divorce rate stays high?

Honestly, if you need sex to stay together and enjoy each others' company, then "Amy" or "Jean-Claude" is probably not the one. It should not be a solution to what doesn't mix but an amalgamation of how complete both of you feel with each other.

[B][i]FLAME DISCLAIMER: I'm not saying this is how it is, this is how I think it is.[/i][/B][/COLOR]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Nerdsy'][color=deeppink]Because people aren't objects?[/color][/QUOTE]


[color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]True. But I wasn't thinking of it that way exactly. Well... you do have this new trend called a Starter Husband, but that's messy. :animesigh

It was close to a good analogy, but I guess not. What I really was going for was that for some couples sex and physical attraction are important parts of a relationship and unless you're willing to work on certain aspects that are more than just slightly lacking then wouldn't you rather know ahead of time before you've booked that party room at the Burgundy Basin Inn?

Anyway, abstinence is a great idea. I do believe that people should at least [i]try[/i] to control themselves. But the fact is when there are a lot of hormones involved it really is hard to just say no. [/color][/font]

[pooperson]

[SIZE="1"][COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]I'm all about the abstinence deal. I'm from an extremely conservative, religious family who would not condone sex before marriage.
Also, based off personal preferences, I honestly don't really want to. I'm so scared that I the guy I'd end up marrying wouldn't be nearly as good as an ex-boyfriend or something to that extent.
Anyway, abstinence, FTW![/COLOR][/SIZE]

[Gavin]

[SIZE="1"]Kudos to Chibi for giving me the best laugh I've had this week with her "try it before you buy it" analogy.

As for the topic at hand, it's down to people themselves to decide when they're ready to have sex. Whether that lies inside our outside marriage all depends on the person themselves.[/SIZE]

[Metalcore501]

I have some funny and disturbing memories of my first few times.

When I was with my first guy, we were well mostly untrained so we would try many many stupid things. But lord I never thought this would happen, HE went to put on a condom for the first time and he asked me after trying to put it on himself "Why wont my nuts fit in!

my firt time with a girl was a little.... bdsm..... you could say it scarred me for life...
She chained me to the wall, put these electric thing on my private area, and put somthing in my rectal area. She was very rough.... ive still got scarrs from her constant biting.... I hope I never m with a woman like that again.

[2010DigitalBoy]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]lulz. I voted 'no' cuz marriage is t3h lameness. Seriously, why? That's neither here nor there, though.

For a 'sex thread' the mouth is sure being used for a lot more talking than I'd have expected...[/COLOR]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='ChibiHorsewoman;791026][color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]I'm just curious about how people learned about sex (school, parents, Cinemax?) What myths, truths, facts or rumors did you have to go on? Anything you wish you just didn't know (Or see, because I can imagine some of us have some scarring in our lives from things we wish we'd never seen) Or maybe some emberassing stories?[/color][/font][/QUOTE]I learned about it first from my mother and then later from friends. School didn?t really cover much of anything. As for seeing something I almost wish I hadn't? Some pictures of what certain STD?s do to you weren?t that pleasant, but I?d rather know than find out the hard way. [QUOTE=ChibiHorsewoman'][color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]
Also a more serious question. (I'm covering all bases tonight) Do you think that abstinence is important? Should you wait to have sex after marriage or does it just matter that you're mature enough to make that type of decision?[/color][/font][/QUOTE]Abstinence is important only in the context of a complete sex education or rather in people being fully aware of all avenues they can take when it comes to sex. Do I think sex should only happen after marriage? Hell no. If you?re mature enough, there?s no reason why you can?t have sex as part of a relationship. I?ll avoid the religious slant here since most if not all of incidents where I?ve seen it supported as the way to go, were because of religious beliefs that I do not agree with. [quote name='ChibiHorsewoman;791026][color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]I know not everyone wants all the intimate details, but for me it wasn't all that exciting the first time. Infact it was lack luster and I wished I had a book. :D The phrase 'We are not amused' flashed in my head a few times. And I was convinced my roommates in college had lied to me.[/color][/font][/QUOTE]Well no exact details, but my first time, though obviously not as good once I matured and learned more, was still just fine. And I?ll leave the reasons as to why it was fine out of this. Heh. [QUOTE=ChibiHorsewoman'][color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]
As for the abstinence question. I didn't exactly wait and I don't believe my kids will either. I think it's all about personal choices. But you should make sure that you're ready to do something that big. Of course in that same breath: You test drive a car before you buy it so why shouldn't you sleep with someone you're thinking of marrying? [/color][/font][/QUOTE]I agree with the personal choice bit, but I have to poke fun at the test-driving a car analogy. lol But then sex for me in a relationship hasn?t been a question of whether or not I was thinking of marrying them. Or 'testing' what they were like. lol [/COLOR]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy] Hmm, other emberassing stories?

A girl I know had a bad case of lock jaw at a very bad moment. Her (now ex) boyfriend was less than pleased, but it sure gave everyone else a good laugh. One of those 'Please God don't ever let it happen to me' things. My boyfriend still reminds her about it too.

I've had a few times where my mom called on the phone- it wasn't bad when it went into regular voice mail, but before I signed up for voice mail I had an answering machine and hearing her voice in the middle of that just killed the mood. :animeswea

[/color][/font]

[Aaryanna]

[COLOR="goldenrod"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"]I think it should be a personal choice, once you're old enough that is. I do think that abstinence is important, but I also don't think people should be limited to waiting until they get married. As for how I learned about it... I got most of my information from online and at the local library. Sex ed was a joke. Now as for embarrassing experiences? I'm fifteen, jail bait by Utah laws and have no interest in it at the moment. XP So no stories from me, unless you like the ones where I've smacked someone for attempting to touch me in a manner I did not want. :animesigh I don't even have a boyfriend because so far... All the boys I know are brats. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[2010DigitalBoy]

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman'][color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy] Hmm, other emberassing stories?

A girl I know had a bad case of lock jaw at a very bad moment. Her (now ex) boyfriend was less than pleased, but it sure gave everyone else a good laugh. One of those 'Please God don't ever let it happen to me' things. My boyfriend still reminds her about it too.

I've had a few times where my mom called on the phone- it wasn't bad when it went into regular voice mail, but before I signed up for voice mail I had an answering machine and hearing her voice in the middle of that just killed the mood. :animeswea

[/color][/font][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"][i]Much better.[/i] Like Aaryana, I am young (16) though most of my friends lost their virginity at 12-14. I'm just 'that guy'. Never had a girlfriend, nor a chance with a woman, lol. this is more than likely because women find me repulsive. I know this is true, because my female friends take care to remind me so, lol. Not that it matters - I don't really try in any way to aquire a relationship. Where the hell would I find time for it around all of my anime watching anyway? lol.

As for sexual stories - this only applies to me if we're talking about one-man escapades. This would actually be quite hilarious, but I'm not going to talk about it on (G)takuboards.

Come back to me in 10 years when I've snapped and trapped a bunch of women in my basement >_>

[Wow, this post sounds really deprived. I need to not listen to [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkGpOUhix7Y]OdoruAkachanNingen[/url] when I post.][/COLOR]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Aaryanna'][COLOR="goldenrod"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"]I think it should be a personal choice, once you're old enough that is. I do think that abstinence is important, but I also don't think people should be limited to waiting until they get married. As for how I learned about it... I got most of my information from online and at the local library. Sex ed was a joke. Now as for embarrassing experiences? I'm fifteen, jail bait by Utah laws and have no interest in it at the moment. XP So no stories from me, unless you like the ones where I've smacked someone for attempting to touch me in a manner I did not want. :animesigh I don't even have a boyfriend because so far... All the boys I know are brats. [/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]


[color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]I know what you mean by sex-ed being a joke. My health teacher was an ultra conservative Christian (no offense to anyone who follows monotheistic religions) So we didn't learn too much about condom usage. We did however learn a shedload about STDs (STVs) and watched a video on Abstinence produced by Focus on the Family.All the while the teacher was saying that she didn't want to force her veiws on anyone. And please keep in mind that I went to a public high school.

Also, yeah, some of us don't want to remember things like this, but the old 'walking in on your parents' stories could work. :sick: Ooh now I have to go bleach my eyeballs!

Still slightly on topic, what is the age of consent in your state/country/province? I know for most of the US it's sixteen (Including in New York state) some parts in the south it's fifteen and in good old Hawaii it's Fourteen! [/color][/font]

[2010DigitalBoy]

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman'][color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]Also, yeah, some of us don't want to remember things like this, but the old 'walking in on your parents' stories could work. :sick: Ooh now I have to go bleach my eyeballs! [/color][/font][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]It's made a thousand times worse when your parents talk about sex or make crude jokes all the time, [i]right in front of you!!! AND YOUR LITTLE BROTHERS!!![/i] Swear to god, they have no consideration. Oh sure, they always realise it afterwards, but then the scars have already been dug!

The worst one was when we were picking out the new house we were going to move into [just to clarify, this was in Feb-Mar 07, since I've lived in like 17 houses] and one of them had this really weird design where there was a massive living room/den thing that had this super-high ceiling. Well, the 2nd floor wall cuts into the ceiling, so its like you can see the outline of the above room.

For some weird reason, the house designers decided to just cut a big *** window-like hole in this wall. Just a bigass hole from the master bedroom to the den. Well, this comes up in discussion.

Me: Well, the hole's gunna be a problem for, like, if we're, like, up late and stuff and you guys are, like, trying to sleep.

My mom (toward my dad): Yeah, and it's gunna suck when me and you aer trying to 'Ah! Ah! Ah!' up there.

Freeze frame. Now, I don't know what my mom said next. It took a moment to sink in. (did she think she was covering it up like that? Why would she do that?) before I knew it, my face was contorting into a horrified expression that must surely have spoken my disdain.

My dad: Uh... I think you killed Conrad...

M mom: lol oops.

Then the shock set it.

Me: GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *runs to room to sob*

and ALL THEY COULD DO WAAS LAUGH MANIACALLY!!!![/COLOR]

[Sandy]

I think it's my job as an European to remind you guys that the whole abstinence movement is quite an American thing. Sure we have individuals who decide to wait until marriage (usually girls), but they don't walk around sniffing at those who don't, nor do they have any "rings of promise" or whatever they're called.

I respect that choice, but thinking it's the only right way to go for everybody is just delusional. Sex and physical contact are wonderful things, and I think they're every bit as important as the emotional side in a relationship. Without them, I don't think the relationship can go much further than a caring friendship. But that's just my opinion.

[SunfallE]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"][quote name='2007DigitalBoy'][COLOR="DarkOrange"]Come back to me in 10 years when I've snapped and trapped a bunch of women in my basement >_>[/COLOR][/QUOTE]I can see it now... When it hits the news... All of us will be going... OMG! I knew him when he was a member at OtakuBoards! :D *dies laughing*

Anyway... As for the topic. XP Abstinence is important but certainly not what I would recommend for everyone. Because if you're old enough then it becomes your personal choice as to whether or not you wait for marriage. I know I don't. It really depends on the person I'm dating, sometimes it just seems natural to become more intimate in the relationship even if you're not thinking about marriage.

Now as for first times. >_< No details out of me on that one. I'd rather forget it actually. But embarrassing moments? I've had my share of those and ChibiHorsewoman, you're right, hearing your parents voice on an answering machine [I]does[/I] kill the mood. lol

But yeah, in the end? Sex is important in a relationship and not just for marriage. Honestly, I've never believed the notion that one has to be married for it to be appropriate. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[Allamorph]

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman][color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]I think it's all about personal choices.[/color'][/font][/quote]
[quote name='indifference][COLOR=indigo']I agree with the personal choice bit,....[/COLOR][/quote]
[quote name='Aaryanna][COLOR="goldenrod"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"]I think it should be a personal choice,....[/FONT'][/COLOR][/quote]
[FONT=Arial]Beg pardon? You [I]think??![/I]

No. No, there's no question involved, guys. It [I]is[/I] a personal choice. [U]You[/U] say yes, or [U]you[/U] say no. Whatever your history is?be it your rearing, your religion or lack thereof (which is technically still a religion, guys), or your hormones?the decision in the moment is you.

I mean, think about it. A person might have been raised by devout Methodist parents and taught just how to act 'appropriately', but that person is not required to stand by that belief. They choose to, and so it is not the religion that restricts them, but they that restrict themselves, [I]based on[/I] their ties to their religion.

As far as sex itself goes, there are two functions it is designed for: reproduction, and pleasure. Within marriage, both have a functional place. Outside of marriage, the reproductive aspect is diminished by the absence of the family unit, and I would even go so far as to say that pleasure is the only motivator here. So then the question becomes, do you want this singular kind of intense pleasure?

Personally, I have no need for it. I just don't care. At all. There might be other reasons besides that, such as the fact that my habit of processing multiple strains of information at the same time would make such an intimate situation quite awkward (I doubt that sex works well at the same time as schedule-planning, for instance...or even how baseball and mathematics are intertwined), but ultimately it is my total lack of interest in our culture's pastime that explains why I don't seek it out.[/FONT]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Allamorph'][FONT=Arial] Beg pardon? You [I]think??![/I][/FONT][/QUOTE]

[color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]I need to make a mental note to not start things after a twelve hour shift. Nothing ever turns out right. :animesigh

I [b][i]KNOW[/b][/i] it's about personal choice. I lost it at nineteen and my brother lost it at like fifteen or something. It was my choice to wait and my brother's choice to be a horn dog. Everyone has a different take on it[/color][/font]



[quote name='Allamorph'][FONT=Arial]Personally, I have no need for it. I just don't care. At all. There might be other reasons besides that, such as the fact that my habit of processing multiple strains of information at the same time would make such an intimate situation quite awkward (I doubt that sex works well at the same time as schedule-planning, for instance...or even how baseball and mathematics are intertwined), but ultimately it is my total lack of interest in our culture's pastime that explains why I don't seek it out. [/FONT][/QUOTE]


[color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]Duckie? Is that you? :animeknow

Sorry I have a male friend who has the exact same opinions. But he doesn't even get why he should get out and try to date in the first place. I think getting out in general is important. Yeah sometimes sex is involved, but it is a sad state of affairs if all you have to base a relationship on is sex (even good sex will pale in comparisson with good conversational skills.) because after a while the two of you will lose your looks (even will Botox) and you won't be able to do a damn thing.

All I have to add is this:
Sex is like air, it's not important unless you're not getting any.[/color][/font]

[TheResplendent]

[FONT="Tahoma"]I understand there are places in this country where things like this seem to still be a taboo sort of conversation. Sex over here though is like second nature. If you grow up in a public school system, chances are you aren't passing age 16 still a virgin. That's how it is now.

Back when i was in high school, I lost my virginity at 16 and that was even considered late. Only one of my usual friends I hang out with had lost it after that, and another one is still a virgin (I think he has your issue, DB, heh). In any case, what I always say on the subject is that if your waiting for the right moment...then you're going about things the wrong way. The right moment for you to have sex is what you make it, when you make it. Don't sit back and expect to be swept off your feet by a prince on a white horse, or for a swimsuit model's car to breakdown infront of your house. People who always hide behind "I'm waiting for the right moment" love to believe they are being noble and righteouss, but it's really just another way of saying they don't know if they want to have sex, or they are simply just traditional.

The right moment doesn't come, it's created. Sorry, you gotta do some work. If you have standards, then try to work towards them, but most often...you're going to end up changing them half way through. Epsecially women (if you don't know what I mean, ask me before becoming offended if for some reason that comment offends anyone). If it is one thing life here has taught me, it's that usually it's the moment that is special, not the person. The reason love IS what it IS (or should be, since that term gets thrown around like a ragdoll nowadays), is because finding a special PERSON is so rare.

I don't regret losing my virginity, I don't think i'm more special than a virgin nor do I believe a virgin is more special than me. Looking at it logically, even with taking erratic emotions into consideration, this subject is really more simple than most people care to put effort into seeing. But then again, I also understand that not everyone experiences life at the same rate or in the same areas. Take it from me...sex is good all around if done right. If you wanna wait for a legal binding, then wait. To me, it just doesn't seem to make sense anymore.[/FONT]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='Allamorph'][FONT=Arial]Beg pardon? You [I]think??![/I]

No. No, there's no question involved, guys. It [I]is[/I] a personal choice. [U]You[/U] say yes, or [U]you[/U] say no. Whatever your history is?be it your rearing, your religion or lack thereof (which is technically still a religion, guys), or your hormones?the decision in the moment is you..[/FONT][/QUOTE]Don't be so literal Allamorph, because many religions see it as their duty to attempt to make that choice for people. Arguing the semantics of how in the end someone is the one to make that choice is pointless. We're talking about how it should be a personal choice from the standpoint of excluding those social factors that would say otherwise. You've missed the point.[quote name='Allamorph'][FONT=Arial]As far as sex itself goes, there are two functions it is designed for: reproduction, and pleasure. Within marriage, both have a functional place. Outside of marriage, the reproductive aspect is diminished by the absence of the family unit, and I would even go so far as to say that pleasure is the only motivator here. So then the question becomes, do you want this singular kind of intense pleasure?

Personally, I have no need for it. I just don't care. At all. There might be other reasons besides that, such as the fact that my habit of processing multiple strains of information at the same time would make such an intimate situation quite awkward (I doubt that sex works well at the same time as schedule-planning, for instance...or even how baseball and mathematics are intertwined), but ultimately it is my total lack of interest in our culture's pastime that explains why I don't seek it out.[/FONT][/QUOTE]I would have thought that the fact that so many people do have sex would indicate that they do want that [I]singular kind of intense pleasure[/I] as you put it. And Allamorph, pleasure is not the only motivator, if the other person isn't desirable or even likable on some level, pleasure or not many of us would not have sex with them.

And saying the reproductive part is diminished by the absence of the family unit? Rubbish. There are lots of people who live together, have kids and are not married. Only religion would have you think that one has to be legally married to be considered a family.

Saying you don't care is sad, sex is part of a healthy relationship whether or not one is married, and how can you say you don't care when it sounds like you've never even had it? Stop processing multiple strains of information and don't wait for a moment when you're not. There's no such thing as the perfect moment, to some degree, you make that moment with your partner. And like Sandy said... Sex is just as important as the other aspects of a relationship.[/COLOR]

[Patronus]

i believe that it depends on the level of your maturity. i lost my virginity at the age of fifteen, and while i was no where near mature enough at that age to go through what i did, i didn't have sex again until i felt that i could handle the emotional as well as the physical aspects of it. sex should be a matter of choice, not something that is regulated by guidelines of faith.

humans and dolphins are the only two animals on the planet to engage in sex for recreation... and we don't see them worrying it about it, do we?

[Aaryanna]

[COLOR="goldenrod"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"][quote name='ChibiHorsewoman'][color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]Still slightly on topic, what is the age of consent in your state/country/province? I know for most of the US it's sixteen (Including in New York state) some parts in the south it's fifteen and in good old Hawaii it's Fourteen! [/color][/font][/QUOTE]For Utah it's sixteen. Though I've been getting 'offers' since I was thirteen. Why guys think you would say yes is beyond me. XP Honestly, if I don't like guys enough to want to date them, what makes them think I'd want to have sex? I'm sure I'll reach the point where I find the other sex interesting, but I still think boys are brats.

In that respect I suppose I can understand why someone doesn't need it. I just haven't run into anyone who I felt attracted to, so the idea of having sex just to do so... seems pointless. It's not religion or being traditional in any sense or that the law says I'm too young. It's the truth that I've yet to feel that way towards a guy. *shrug*[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Allamorph]

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman][color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]I need to make a mental note to not start things after a twelve hour shift. Nothing ever turns out right. :animesigh[/color'][/font][/quote]
[FONT=Arial]Not so, ma'am. Quite to the contrary, it turned out well.

But if you know something, then be decisive about it. Don't 'think'. Thinking is for when you don't know. The worst thing that could happen is that you could be wrong, but then what's so bad about that?

Point is: say it like you mean it. All the time. :animesmil

[quote name='indifference][COLOR=indigo']Arguing the semantics of how in the end someone is the one to make that choice is pointless.[/COLOR][/quote]
Not so again. And I already knew your point, milady...as is usually the case when you say I've missed it. :p

[QUOTE][I][COLOR="indigo"][M]any religions see it as their duty to attempt to make that choice for people. // We're talking about how it should be a personal choice from the standpoint of excluding those social factors that would say otherwise.[/COLOR][/I][/QUOTE]
Yes to the second; no to the first. After all, there's a marked difference between saying "you can't" and "just don't". The former is a requirement only for those in the Catholic and Jesuit priesthoods (I can't at the moment think of any others), but remember that first a person must choose to enter the priesthood?they are not forced into the position (the Jesuit draft?)?and that they can also choose to leave it if, for instance, the strains celibacy become too great; and second that there is nothing but the person themself compelling them to confess their erstwhile affairs, since deception is not difficult by any means.

I do not know of any other situations where "can't" is forced down a person's throat, so to speak. As far as I have found, the "rules" just say "don't". (Arg. Too many quotation marks.) The individual still has to choose to follow them or not. As for the religions that would control the individual, as you said, that is generally the mark overly pious, pride-filled individuals who feel it their business to tell you both how depraved you are and how holy they are at the same time, as much as possible. No human can or does answer morally to any other human; humans did not make the Law, so how do [I]we[/I] presume to enforce it?

That does not mean that I encourage the behavior. It only means that, just as in everything else, the individual is given a choice to make. I believe, though, that what most people balk at on this issue is the [I]label[/I] given to the choice.

According to the Bible, the more popular decision is the Wrong one.

So when you say [I]"it should be a choice"[/I], what I hear is [I]"it should be [U][B]just[/B][/U] a choice"[/I]. There's nothing overtly wrong about it; in fact, when pressed most Christians would say they don't know why it's wrong, but that it's just wrong. So if there's no reason for it to be wrong, what's the deal?

Along the same lines, the university I attend requires a student to take a total of twenty-two credit hours worth of Honors classes and two Honors colloquia in order to graduate [I]in cursu honorum[/I]. Why those numbers? Why can't I graduate [I]in cursu[/I] if I only want to take eight hours, and I don't happen to like any of the offered colloquia? I did, after all, graduate "in the course of Honors", did I not?

Damned if I know. Still, they made the rules, and so I follow the rules, even if I don't know why.

Same thing here. Even if I haven't got Clue #1 why it's wrong, He made the rules. I can't argue with Him.

This scenario is interesting, though, because the punishment for me breaking the Law doesn't happen until after I'm dead. Additionally, I've already been given a pass/Go by virtue of my faith?the whole "forgiveness" spiel that I'm certain you've heard numerous nauseating times. :p So then, if I'm not 'punished' immediately, and I'm forgiven anyway, what's holding me back.

I believe Paul (formerly Saul) said it best. I beg your indulgence while I toss scripture at you....but first, some backup to one of my earlier statements:

[QUOTE]Reference: [B]Romans 2:1[/B]; New King James version
[FONT=Arial][I]Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.[/I][/FONT][/QUOTE]
In less words, I can't say anything about anyone else, 'cause I'm just as guilty.

Moving on. (Reminder: according to the Law, Wrong = sin. Synonyms, if you will.)

Here, Paul is speaking to those of the Roman church; i.e., those already 'saved'.

[QUOTE]Reference: [B]Romans 6: 1-4, 8-9, 11, 14[/B]; NKJV [FONT=Arial][SIZE=1](I'll truncate some of the redundant stuff.)[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT="Arial"][I]What shall we say, then? Shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who have died to sin live in sin any longer? Or do you not know that as many of us were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? Therefore we were buried with him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

//snip// Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over him. //snip// Likewise you also, reckon yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God....

//snip// For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under the law, but under grace.[/I][/FONT][/QUOTE]
And Paul goes on in further lawyer-esque detailed proofs?at one point, he uses an interesting analogy involving a woman remarrying, and how she is not called an adulteress if her first husband is dead. :p (Divorce in Jewish law was basically nonexistent.)

Basically, though, we have no incentive to commit Wrong acts. We are dead to it, and, in the words of King James, it profit us naught. Or not. Same thing.

Anywho:

[QUOTE][I][COLOR="indigo"]I would have thought that the fact that so many people do have sex would indicate that they do want that [U]singular kind of intense pleasure[/U] as you put it.[/COLOR][/I][/QUOTE]
Yes.

So, umm...now what?

[QUOTE][I][COLOR="indigo"]...pleasure is not the only motivator, if the other person isn't desirable or even likable on some level, pleasure or not many of us would not have sex with them.[/COLOR][/I][/QUOTE]
Pleasure in many ways, milady. Sexually, visually, conversationally, ecumenically....

[QUOTE][I][COLOR="indigo"]There are lots of people who live together, have kids and are not married.[/COLOR][/I][/QUOTE]
Really, that is still a family.

[QUOTE][I][COLOR="indigo"]Saying you don't care is sad, sex is part of a healthy relationship whether or not one is married, and how can you say you don't care when it sounds like you've never even had it? Stop processing multiple strains of information and don't wait for a moment when you're not. There's no such thing as the perfect moment, to some degree, you make that moment with your partner. And like Sandy said... Sex is just as important as the other aspects of a relationship.[/COLOR][/I][/QUOTE]
I find it is not sad at all; I have several healthy relationships, thanksabunch; and I can say that I don't care very easily. (To the knee-jerk response of "have you ever even had a girlfriend?" I say yes. It was an accident, though, and I rectified the situation as quickly and genteelly as possible; I wouldn't wish me on anyone. :p)

You have no idea how bizarre my mind is. The only times it is [I]not[/I] 'processing multiple strains of information' is when I am either playing music or ensconced in listening to it. In the former case sex is quite impossible, and in the latter my entire body shuts down, leaving only my ears, my auditory processor, and my threat proximity identifier active.

As for the waiting bit, umm....I'm not waiting....at all. I'm just, well, [I]Not[/I]. As in, Not is what I am, not what I am doing.

I would like to ask [COLOR="DarkRed"]Sandy[/COLOR] what he means by 'abstinence movement'. Are you referring to the whole advertising bit? If so, I don't think it counts, 'cause people will advertise [I]anything[/I] over here. We're rather a bolloxed country, if you haven't noticed. :p (The least of our problems being that the apprenticeship system is defunct.)

The analogies in this thread are insanely amusing. :D I will say, though, that comparisons to non-sentient, non-moral-conscious species who weren't given souls is at best ineffective. (I wish cats had souls....:()[/FONT]

[TheResplendent]

[FONT="Tahoma"]Forgive my laziness toward the lack of quoting. Allamorph, if you put half as much effort into the aspects pertaining to the actual act of sex as you do trying to make sense of talking about it...well...you'd be having sex :p. However I do appreciate you not claiming dogs don't have souls :animesmil.

Nobody likes a nice detailed romp through the fields of explaining the intricacies of a contraversial or in depth subject more than I, but I wasn't kidding when I said that this is tons simpler than most people realize.

In terms of religion, without a doubt even the most common catholic or other jesuit priesthoods have had their age old tradtional system of sex control not, only for members but followers as well, derived from those which preceeded them. Many ancient religions included, especially egyptian. But anyway, I've never been the fan or follower of dedication to religious boundries pertaining to sex. Afterall i'm a roman-catholic who has been having pre-maritel and non procreative sex since age 16.

Also while we're discussing the details of a particular religion, in reference to the forgiveness deal eliminating the presence of an aura of fear for engaging in certain actions, that is conditional as well dependant on the worshipper. In catholocism, you are actually supposed to confess your sins and seek penance or contrition before you are able to be forgiven to the point of being allowed entry to heaven. So call it a similar concept to a down payment without intentions of fulfilling the rest of the price. Though faithful worshippers of religion shouldn't be thinking that way in the first place, ideally.

In reference to your examples of multiple types of pleasure, i have never heard of anyone having sex with someone because they know how to enjoy a good conversation ;P. Unless of course you enjoy killing two birds with one stone and talk about each other's day during sex. Not even new yorkers are that much in a rush everyday. But you are correct in the general picture, after all the last serious relationship I was in, the sex had more to do with my actual feelings for the girl than the attraction I felt from her.

In any case, hopefully you've noticed that I'm just having some fun here and you won't feel like you're under attack or something silly. I just find it interesting that someone can speak so much whether it be facetious or not about a subject that just doesn't beg that kind of attention anymore. That doesn't just apply to you either Allamorph, I mean anyone really.[/FONT]