The Sex thread

[sakurasuka]

[quote name='Sandy']Truth to be told, sex is as simple and emotional as you make of it.[/quote]

[font="arial"][size="1"]Sex is a very emotional thing, no matter who you are. It isn't something that you just do. You shouldn't just learn to simply [I]appreciate[/I] it, that is distorting the very most intimate physical detail of a relationship, when it should be one of the most special and emotional parts.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[quote name='Miss Anonymous']
I never "shunned" it away as sinful or impure, did I? I did mention that God made it possible, so it's not like it's a bad thing. It's mainly the way people use it (or in some cases, abuse it) that's bad.[/QUOTE]

[FONT="Arial"][SIZE="1"]Couldn't have said it better myself.[/size][/font]

[Rachmaninoff]

I can see that in the end, I'm going to simply agree to disagree. The very idea that one has to be married or save themselves for that 'special' one is abhorrent and seems unnatural to me. It's simple in my mind, if I am dating someone I care for and if both of us want it, then I can and do move into exploring that relationship further and that includes sex. I've had two relationships that moved into that realm and though we did not end up getting married, I don't regret it.

I'd can't and frankly won't accept the idea that one has to be 'married' for it to be anything other than love. Not that people are saying it, but the implication that someone is simply doing it for pleasure is certainly between the lines here. As well as other implications that we are degrading ourselves by doing so. But I'm not going to go there since it's a matter of opinion.

Also, even if I myself am straight, since so many countries and religions argue over whether or not someone is gay or lesbian can be married, then saying it's only love if one is married or that one shouldn't have sex until they are married... is degrading and discriminating towards anyone who had a different view or sexual preference than you do. If they can't get married, why should two couples be denied that form of physical expression of caring and love?

Abstinence is something I think one should do in regards to not jumping into the physical side of a relationship too quickly. Not as a wait until you are married deal. In that respect I think one should hold back and be sure they want to move to a higher level of commitment.

[Ikillion]

[COLOR=#001824][SIZE="1"][FONT="Trebuchet MS"]Well there goes my idea for an OB sex orgy. Well darn.

brb, time for seduction.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Darren]

Well, I was a very smart child. I didn't need a lot of explaing in order to figure things out... I think that when my parents had, "The talk," with me and my brother, I was probably 7 or 8... But I had pretty much had if figured out from the time I watched Kindergarten Cop. (Don't ask how that movie tipped me off, but I just somehow got it. I may not have understood the 'mechanics,' for lack of a better word, but I knew the gist of it and probably a lot more than my classmates had deduced on their own)

And on the subject of waiting: Doesn't the whole ideaology of "Sex before marriage" come from the bible anyway? I'm pretty sure it does, so if you're a strong christian, then you should definately follow your own beliefs or morals. As for the rest of us, do what feels right. I definately think that there are too many people in this world that just prefers to sleep around to say that they've been with X number of people. Others are in it just for the pleasure. (And that goes for girls as well) And as a consequence, we have several STD... Call it irony that everyone has to be extra careful. I think it was meant to teach humanity a lesson in self-restraint and prudence, but I'm pretty sure the message is falling on deaf ears.

So yes, matruity level plays into it. But just because you prefer to have premarital sex doesn't mean that you're "immature." It could just mean that your responsible enough to make sure that you care enough about the man/woman to proclaim your feelings... And of course it also means that your smart enough to make sure you wouldn't be contracting anything. (Which also implies that you would be respectful enough to make sure you're not giving anything to your partner)

Some claim that you should be "In love," to have sex. Others believe that it's not even necessary to know the person. I guess I lie somewhere in between both of those viewpoints.

[AzureWolf]

[quote name='indifference'][COLOR="Indigo"]Wrong, in my opinion, the real [I]copout[/I] as you put it, is relying on your personal beliefs, religion or otherwise to tell others what they [I]should [/I]be doing in regards to sex. I say it is someone's choice because depending on social factors, how they were raised, etc. That choice is going to be different for everyone. I can't and won't be so narrow minded as to think I could actually tell people what they should do since I know that there is no one decision that is correct.[/COLOR][/QUOTE][COLOR=maroon]I think it's even more narrow-minded to tell people you "KNOW" that there is no one correct decision... Hypothetically, if God came down and proved himself tomorrow, you wouldn't really know - unless of course you don't believe in God and have proven his lack of existence. Of course, God isn't the only factor in knowing this, we could discuss the scientific side of things, but I think you get what I mean.

There are always extremes and exceptions, but always guidelines. That's what the question was about - at least IMO. In which cases do you see it ok, in which do you not? What is the general rule of thumb? Not, "I don't know and am too scared to formulate an individual opinion that might offend people. I refuse to think critically about issues and use the teen speak as my voice."

If we were talking about killing someone (I'm using an extreme that everyone agrees with), what would your answer be? "If there was no other choice?" "If it was for self-defense?" Some other generic, tried and true answer? Yes, but why can't you do that for this question? When is it ok, when is it not? Generally, is it ok or is it not?

But just like killing, there's always exceptions. There's no need to make those copout exceptions as your answer. That's my beef with what's going on here, not the answer itself. I'm not playing mod, I'm just trying to explain why I hate that "answer/copout."[QUOTE][COLOR=indigo]Of course, and when I say I work with people, [B]it often is a journey to find out the underlying causes as to why they aren't having sex. Still that does bring to home that having it [I]is[/I] important, otherwise they wouldn't be upset by the lack of it.[/B][/COLOR][/QUOTE]You're saying it isn't the underlying cause but that's what's making them upset? I'm not trying to be a nitpicky jerk, but it sounds contradictory?[QUOTE][COLOR=indigo]As for saying sex comes naturally when people are attracted to each other, I completely disagree. [B]And ironically it's one of the underlying causes of people not having sex in a marriage[/B]. It's astonishing how many couples I've run into who once they got married and things settled down, became less active sexually because they were still waiting for those moments where it just happened instead of realizing that on some level, you make it happen..

[B]So sure it might come naturally at first[/B], but married or simply living together, you're going to find that it requires work to maintain that romantic interest. ;)[/COLOR][/QUOTE]I never said you don't plan for it..., and again, does it come naturally or not? Chicken or the egg?

To clarify, all I said was sex will come from your solid relationship, but a solid relationship will not come out of just sex. I never said there are no adjustments in the walk of life, or marriage, or when you have kids and a job, and planning is not required. I'd go so far to say that all of that has no relevance to the issue at hand.[/COLOR]

Rachmanioff, thank you so much! T_T You are the man for delivering true individuality, haha.
Anyway, I agree that I disagree, and you make a compelling argument. However, weren't those relationships harder to leave behind even after you knew they were not "the one?" You know, because of sex being involved?

[TheResplendent]

[quote name='sakurasuka'][FONT="Arial"][SIZE="1"]Sorry, but I disagree. Sex shouldn't just be something that is done because the possibility is there. The fact that there is no particular 'perfect moment' shouldn't dictate your decision to do it any more than the possibility of said moment. Sex, to me, is a little more intimate. I only really want to share it with one person. Having sex with multitudes of people isn't even comprehendable.
[/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]


[FONT="Tahoma"]By all means, do not misunderstand me. I do not recall saying or even alluding to that you should forsake the "right moment" for any available possibility. I was saying that there are such things as special moments, however YOU have to make them, YOU have to work for them, YOU play a very instrumental part in a moment or time being special. You cannot wait for it, THAT is the wrong way to go about it. It isn't going to one day come in the form of a shadow that blesses you on your 18th birthday on a full moon or whatever else idealistic fantasies people want to believe they are entitled to. I couldn't have explained it better then how I did in my previous post, so again...by no means am I saying everyone should have sex when a moment arises. Unless of course you want to. Everyone is different.[/FONT]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]Okay after about a day and some moderate... activity with Spy :animeblus I'm back. And I'm too damn worn out to read through everything.

I have to say that I have very liberal views when it comes to sex and I'm an advocate for using birth control. I don't like the idea of teaching soley abstinence because The way I see it is if you keep telling someone not to do something they're going to do it anyway and enjoy it three times as much because it's forbidden.

You take away the allure of the forbidden and suddenly it's not as appealing. Yeas, it's still a curiosity and yeah pleanty of people are going to do it. But since there's no stigma attached to it and people will ask questions and become better informed. And you won't have the ignorant American teenagers who think that you get pregnant from sitting on a toilet someone peed on.:animeswea

I'd continue on, but dammit all I'm tiired. So I can't continue. I blame Lee (Spy)[/color][/font]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='AzureWolf;791370][COLOR=maroon]I think it's even more narrow-minded to tell people you "KNOW" that there is no one correct decision... Hypothetically, if God came down and proved himself tomorrow, you wouldn't really know - unless of course you don't believe in God and have proven his lack of existence. Of course, God isn't the only factor in knowing this, we could discuss the scientific side of things, but I think you get what I mean.[/color][/QUOTE]You've misunderstood me, I say there is no one correct decision because of different views around the world as to what is morally acceptable. So I'm not going to say what I think is the correct decision when it is the truth that not one of us knows for a certainty the absolute correct choice to make in a situation like this. That is why I say it's narrow minded. Until God [[SIZE="1"]should he exist[/SIZE]] comes down and says otherwise. I will not tell others what they SHOULD do. [quote name='AzureWolf;791370][COLOR=maroon']There are always extremes and exceptions, but always guidelines. That's what the question was about - at least IMO. In which cases do you see it ok, in which do you not? What is the general rule of thumb? Not, "I don't know and am too scared to formulate an individual opinion that might offend people. I refuse to think critically about issues and use the teen speak as my voice."[/COLOR][/quote]I think I already answered this and people are simply not listening, it IS personal choice based on circumstances. To put it in a nutshell, it has to do with maturity, do they want to have it before marriage? Are they ready for it? How does the other person feel about it? Are they only after pleasure or do they want more commitment? The only guideline I have ever given has been... If you think about these things and still can't decide if you are ready for sex, then it's likely that you are not ready for it. I can't give a concrete answer because the guidelines for coming to a decision differ for each person. For some religion will be a factor, where for others religion won't matter since they aren't religious.[QUOTE=AzureWolf'][COLOR=maroon]If we were talking about killing someone (I'm using an extreme that everyone agrees with), what would your answer be? "If there was no other choice?" "If it was for self-defense?" Some other generic, tried and true answer? Yes, but why can't you do that for this question? When is it ok, when is it not? Generally, is it ok or is it not?

But just like killing, there's always exceptions. There's no need to make those copout exceptions as your answer. That's my beef with what's going on here, not the answer itself. I'm not playing mod, I'm just trying to explain why I hate that "answer/copout."You're saying it isn't the underlying cause but that's what's making them upset? I'm not trying to be a nitpicky jerk, but it sounds contradictory?I never said you don't plan for it..., and again, does it come naturally or not? Chicken or the egg?[/COLOR][/QUOTE]I think you're dragging this out more than is necessary, killing has a far more severe consequence than having sex does. Or rather consensual sex since I'm not going to get on the tangent of rape or other issues. So obviously giving a more concrete answer over killing is possible.

As for the underlying cause, of course it's making them upset. I really wish people would listen to what I'm saying here... Sex is part of a package here, it could also be something else that they are angry over and the underlying cause in that case is the lack of sex. It's only one aspect of a relationship and if something is interfering with it, couples can and do find it extremely frustrating. That's why I said it's an important part of a relationship. [quote name='AzureWolf'][COLOR=maroon]To clarify, all I said was sex will come from your solid relationship, but a solid relationship will not come out of just sex. I never said there are no adjustments in the walk of life, or marriage, or when you have kids and a job, and planning is not required. I'd go so far to say that all of that has no relevance to the issue at hand.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]And I'd go so far to say that claiming a solid relationship will not come out of sex is biased since you can't claim that it hasn't or couldn't. All of this has relevance since the implication going on in this thread is that having sex before marriage somehow makes having a good marriage impossible when that just isn't true.[/COLOR]

[Rachmaninoff]

[quote name='AzureWolf;791370]Rachmanioff, thank you so much! T_T You are the man for delivering true individuality, haha.[/QUOTE]I sincerely hope you are just poking fun, otherwise... [quote name='AzureWolf'']Anyway, I agree that I disagree, and you make a compelling argument. However, weren't those relationships harder to leave behind even after you knew they were not "the one?" You know, because of sex being involved?[/quote]Of course, but again that's what made them so unique. And honestly, like I said, I don't regret it. In both instances, we really thought we were going to go somewhere with it, in one we even got engaged. But other things ended up coming between us, one it was her family. They absolutely refused to accept her marrying someone who was not in the same religion. They refused to accept that she didn't want to be a part of that religion. It tore her apart the way her family couldn't accept how we felt about each other. In the end she broke off ties with everyone, including her family and moved overseas. The other, we just came to the realization that though we really liked each other, we didn't share enough interests to take it further, though at first we thought we did.

Honestly you could even go so far as to say that it was better that we learned that before getting married. I would imagine a lot of divorce comes from people getting married when they weren't ready for it. Or from marrying someone before they really knew if they cared for each other in that way.

[Sandy]

[quote name='sakurasuka'][font="arial"][size="1"]Sex is a very emotional thing, no matter who you are. It isn't something that you just do. You shouldn't just learn to simply [I]appreciate[/I] it, that is distorting the very most intimate physical detail of a relationship, when it should be one of the most special and emotional parts.[/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but you're apparently in denial of some cold, hard facts. There are people - lots of people, young and old, single and married - who'd do anything for sex with almost anybody. Some people have [I]hundreds[/I] of sex partners (most of which they only spend one night with), and they see nothing wrong with that. There's a multibillion dollar business on prostitution of both women and men stretching into every corner of the world.

To some people sex is just getting the pleasure out of it, and they want to keep emotions away from it. To some it's not even about pleasure, but making a living. I'm not saying I think everyone should act like this, nor that it is the right way, just that it happens, and it happens a lot.

You can live in your teenage fantasy world all you want, but when you grow up a bit, you'll learn that there's a serious lack of Prince Charmings ready to wait until you two get married in the world.

And [B]Miss Anonymous[/B], trusting your mother to tell you the truth about sex is just silly, when seemingly all she wants to do is to protect you from it.

[SunfallE]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"][quote name='Ikillion'][COLOR=#001824][SIZE="1"][FONT="Trebuchet MS"]Well there goes my idea for an OB sex orgy. Well darn.

brb, time for seduction.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]Yeah, that's what I was thinking. XP It's getting too serious in here. Pity.

All joking aside, for those that want specifics, it depends on your maturity as well as whether or not you want to have it with the person. All I'm saying is marriage doesn't equate to sex is better because you waited. XP Or bad because you did and then later broke up. Honestly, if you want to wait, then wait, if you feel you're ready, then by all means don't wait. I really do think people should carefully consider it and then decide for themselves what they want to do. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[sakurasuka]

[quote name='Sandy']To some people sex is just getting the pleasure out of it, and they want to keep emotions away from it. To some it's not even about pleasure, but making a living. I'm not saying I think everyone should act like this, nor that it is the right way, just that it happens, and it happens a lot.[/quote]

[FONT="Arial"][SIZE="1"]You are perfectly correct in saying that it isn't right. I'm not saying you can't remove most if not all emotion from sexual intercourse, but then what's the point? Why would you even bring that up if you don't agree with it? Don't you think sex should be between two people who are in love and have a future?[/SIZE][/FONT]

[quote name='Sandy']You can live in your teenage fantasy world all you want, but when you grow up a bit, you'll learn that there's a serious lack of Prince Charmings ready to wait until you two get married in the world.[/quote]

[FONT="Arial"][SIZE="1"]Whoa, who said anything about waiting until getting married? Who said anything about Prince Charming? I believe you misunderstand me. More than a little.

I never said wait for marriage, I said wait until you've found the person you love and have a future with. Also, I think that kids shouldn't have sex until they are ready to deal with the consequences or the possibility of negative reprocussions. Until you are ready to deal with an unwanted pregnancy and the baby that such pregnancy yields, you shouldn't have sex. Until you are mature enough to deal with the medical side of STDs, you shouldn't have sex. Until you are finantially mature enough to purchase birth control as well as medical testing to make sure you are fit for intercourse, you should not have sex. A fourteen year old would not be able to deal with such things, if they were to pop up. Nor would a fifteen year old. At sixteen and seventeen, it is very doubtful.

Only when someone is mature and responsible enough to understand and protect themselves should they even consider it. Nor should anyone do it with just anyone. Sex is the most intimate thing we are gifted, and our bodies should not be thrown from person to person. That is a disgrace.

Plus, just saying that you should do it when you feel the time is right is ridiculous, because then every thirteen year old hitting puberty would jump at the first shot they got. Restraint should be realized, sex isn't something to be taken lightly.



Also, I've found that my mother has given me the best advice about sex. Just for the record. Also, I'm not waiting around for some prince charming, nor do I have some romantic notion that such a man exists, but I've already found the man I'm spending the rest of my days and years with. He may not be perfect, but he's perfect for me.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[Sandy]

[quote name='sakurasuka'][FONT="Arial"][SIZE="1"]Also, I'm not waiting around for some prince charming, nor do I have some romantic notion that such a man exists, but I've already found the man I'm spending the rest of my days and years with. He may not be perfect, but he's perfect for me.[/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

I'm happy for you. I've found such a man as well to my life.

I didn't mean my words as a personal insult, I just thought (and still think) that you're a bit oblivious to the way things work in the world. You preach what you think is the right way to go with sex, but unfortunately you could just as well be talking to the walls.

No amount of restrains or preachings can hold a thirteen year old from having sex if he or she so desires. You and I and everybody else have to just accept that, and hope that someone will at least teach him or her how to do it safely.

I admire your strong belief in your ideals, I really do, but like it's been said many times in this thread already, people make their own choices in life. You just got to live and let live, you know?

[Nony]

[quote name='Sandy']And [B]Miss Anonymous[/B], trusting your mother to tell you the truth about sex is just silly, when seemingly all she wants to do is to protect you from it.[/QUOTE]

Really? I don't find it silly at all. I know some people's parents aren't necessarily trustworthy, but my mother would never lie to me about something like this. She's also told me sex is a really great experience.

And honestly, I've come to the point in my life where I can make my own decisions. If I really wanted to go out and have sex, I probably would. I don't just blindly follow what people tell me as if I were a child. Again, referring back to my first post, these are decisions and opinions [b]I[/b] arrive at.

Frankly, I'm slightly offended you would question my mother's trustworthiness. I'm sure you didn't mean to, but regardless.

[Sandy]

[quote name='Miss Anonymous']Frankly, I'm slightly offended you would question my mother's trustworthiness. I'm sure you didn't mean to, but regardless.[/QUOTE]

Family pride aside, you can't deny that [I]usually[/I] parents don't want their little girls and boys having sex until they've at least moved out of the house. That has nothing to do with lying, they're just trying to protect their children from making mistakes.

I'm sorry I made that generalization with your mother, you know her the best. But you also said that you'd take her word over anybody else's, which is silly since the emotional side of sex is something that cannot be shared with mere words, as it's different for every individual person.

So your mother may be saying that sex is always a huge emotional fanfare, I say it can be done without any emotion at all, but you won't learn the truth about it until you experience it yourself.

But if you'd take my word for it, it's really not something [I]so[/I] worthwhile that one would need to rush into it before one is ready. ;D

[Odin M Yggdrasi]

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman'][color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]I can't think of how to properly phrase the questions due to the fact that my brain is only functioning at half speed so bear with me please. I'm just curious about how people learned about sex (school, parents, Cinemax?) What myths, truths, facts or rumors did you have to go on? Anything you wish you just didn't know (Or see, because I can imagine some of us have some scarring in our lives from things we wish we'd never seen) Or maybe some emberassing stories?

Also a more serious question. (I'm covering all bases tonight) Do you think that abstinence is important? Should you wait to have sex after marriage or does it just matter that you're mature enough to make that type of decision?

Just remember to keep it clean since this isn't an adult site, so please don't get too graphic. No one really wants to know every single detail.

As for myself: I went to school during the Clinton administration but my health teacher was very conservative. So the sex-ed class left much to be desired. My mom covered a lot of the basics with me (sometimes I wish she hadn't) and even took me to get birth control pills.

I know not everyone wants all the intimate details, but for me it wasn't all that exciting the first time. Infact it was lack luster and I wished I had a book. :D The phrase 'We are not amused' flashed in my head a few times. And I was convinced my roommates in college had lied to me.

As for the abstinence question. I didn't exactly wait and I don't believe my kids will either. I think it's all about personal choices. But you should make sure that you're ready to do something that big. Of course in that same breath: You test drive a car before you buy it so why shouldn't you sleep with someone you're thinking of marrying?

Sorry, I'll try to think better tomorrow. But other opinions would be appreciated.[/color][/font][/QUOTE]

Since this thread is already 5 pages and will probably move very fast, I will answer the first post only.

No sex untill marriage. Not only are there social reasons for that, including the influence of the church, and the general disrespect associated with it, but it is also good for people's health.

The fact is once you are married you are supposed to stay with that person forever, which means any STDs that person might be carrying will only be shared between you two and not spread to anyone else.

If you have sex before marriage, you run the risk of getting or transmitting an STD, and then not ending up with that person, which is almost guaranted to result in that STD getting spread to anyone that you or your ex then go with.

There is also the fact that no contraceptive is 100% efficient, even the most well known and highest effectiveness of them is still only 99%, and that 1% that it fails does in fact happen regularly. Normally that would be an acceptable risk, but the consequences of that risk can easily ruin three lives or more in a single incident and is not worth the risk.

[TheResplendent]

[quote name='Odin M Yggdrasi']Since this thread is already 5 pages and will probably move very fast, I will answer the first post only.

No sex untill marriage. Not only are there social reasons for that, including the influence of the church, and the general disrespect associated with it, but it is also good for people's health.

The fact is once you are married you are supposed to stay with that person forever, which means any STDs that person might be carrying will only be shared between you two and not spread to anyone else.

If you have sex before marriage, you run the risk of getting or transmitting an STD, and then not ending up with that person, which is almost guaranted to result in that STD getting spread to anyone that you or your ex then go with.

There is also the fact that no contraceptive is 100% efficient, even the most well known and highest effectiveness of them is still only 99%, and that 1% that it fails does in fact happen regularly. Normally that would be an acceptable risk, but the consequences of that risk can easily ruin three lives or more in a single incident and is not worth the risk.[/QUOTE]


[FONT="Tahoma"]I'll try to be as nice as possible, but while you are in fact right about the 99% recorded efficiency (aside from sterilization mind you, that is 100% effective), you are far overestimating the possibility of the 1% in the most effective contraceptives (condoms and diaphrams) happening. Protected sex is an amazingly effective way to have sex, enjoy it, and be safe from STDs. Too often is an overexaggeration, and i don't know where your "facts" are coming from. You may just happen to know one too many people that have failed at using it propery, but there are reasons for heightened chance at contraceptive failure as well.

It's most dependant on the compentency of the person though, so if you choose not to have sex because you feel you are too inept to use contraceptives correctly or simply because you just don't want to take a chance that isn't there...then by all means. There are appropriate ways to go about everything though, including sizing and maintaining a diapragm properly or applying condoms correctly and washing if you are afraid of an infection. But saying that you should wait for marriage so you don't run the risk of contracting an STD, you are way out there. We're not even talking about you failing to realize that not everyone is so saintful that theydon't cheat on their spouses. Even assuming you stay faithful, there are other ways of contracting an STD that doesn't involve intercourse.

Another BS located in your answer is no sex until marriage being good for your health. Regular sex, especially resulting in ejaculation for men is very good for your health. It keeps you active and burns many calories, it is a preventative measure toward testicular cancer, and can serve as a detection mechanism for possible problems, such as experienced pains that will alert one to an otherwise seemingly dormant condition or the symtpoms of an STD or other disease that would only show signs during a vigorous activity. As long as it's done correctly and safely, there's very little to worry about.

I can see you are trying to make a valid point because you've connected several ones together fluidly, but you're under multiple misconceptions I assure you. It sounds more like you're speaking from religious influence yourself and are omitting the aspect of logical thinking in your reply. Don't get me wrong, that's fine if you are really a devout follower, but don't cheat yourself out of the truth if you are going to be that way.[/FONT]