School Violence

[Darren]

Ever since Columbine, and now Virginia Tech., school's have been a lot more... *searches for appropriate word* on edge.

At my school, what with the intergration of the larger schools, (long story short, they couldn't pass at their school, so instead of summer school, they chose our school) violence has definately improved.

Last year, I saw my first [I]real[/I] fight. There was this one girl who called on of the new girls stupid, and there was a brawl. Involving everyone in the whole school. I got thrown into it just because I was in the hall. (out of nowhere, I get knocked to the ground and fist to the face)

Then this year, there's already been two fights, a "stabbing" if you'd call it that, (this kid got stabbed with a knife on his hand and had to have surgery to reconnect some tendons) And a gun threat... :o

Is it just me or is the "edginess" of the faculty actually pushing violence further? People have alwasy said, if you tell someone not to do it, they ususally do just to see if they could get away with it. (which is the case of the knife at school) And our school has actually banned usage of the word "gun," unless it's in context of a story we're reading or a discussion of certain things. (such as war, or deer hunting)

And then yesterday, I found out that one of my closest friends was locked in a room for TWO HOURS because HE WORE A TRENCHCOAT! Is that even legal? There's been no mention of not wearing trenchcoats to school. And if the teachers would actually take time to get to know their students (seriously, it wouldn't be that hard to figure out who the problem kids are with only about 125 to a grade) they would have known that he wasn't the type to shoot up the school. He [I]is[/I] a gun enthusiast, but he's one of the smartest people I know. He's an honor student, and he had been telling us (myself and our friends) about that trenchcoat for a long time, and he was really excited about it.

While they were in the room, they implied that he was the "type" of person to do that. (EG: Shy and reserved) They also told him that wearing a trenchcoat was a red flag for school shooting. I understand that during Columbine, they boys wore trenchcoats to school, but that's just idiotic to assume that everyone who wears one means they are a killer.

What do you guys think? Any stories of your own?

[Odin M Yggdrasi]

There is a fine line between paranoia and general stupidity, and a lot of what happens these days crosses that easily.

Though I do find it most interesting, all through high school I carried my pocketknife on my keychain and never once got called on it. Still carry it to this day.

I do know I had things somewhat easier being in a school in a relatively rural area.

[The13thMan]

[COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]The whole trenchcoat deal seems perfectly fine to me. A school has the right to protect its students. Sure, you may not have known him to be a person who might be capable of bringing a gun to school, but how are the teachers going to know that? And even if they did know the kid really well, should they take that risk?

Your whole idea of the teachers getting to know the students better is a bad idea on the whole. Sure, the teachers might be able to better tell who could bring a gun or not but is that enough to protect the students? This could also be very easily manipulated. If i planned on going to your school to shoot somebody and knew that the teachers would treat students differently based on their perceptions of me then i'd probably go for about a month with perfect behavior. Then all of a sudden i'd just show up one day and do it. This also is promoting special treatment among students and teachers which is in no way fair to those students who get labeled as the "type" that would bring a gun to school. Also, it would almost certainly promote an outlash against those same students. Think of how you'd feel if you felt you were being treated unfairly just because you gave off that certain vibe.

Whether the teachers being as strict and on edge as you say is causing more violence, i wouldn't be surprised. The extra precautions they are taking seem necessary to me. What would happen if they took absolutely no precautions? Maybe on the whole things would settle down. But it only takes one socially inept kid with access to a firearm to completely outweight those benefits. It only takes one person.

The whole situation is quite sad. The fact that you got pulled into a fight you weren't a part of is horrible. I don't honestly know what it is you should do. I think the best thing you can do is just to go along with your business and try your best not to piss off the wrong people. Or heck, you could start a student organization promoting peace in the hallways or something. Just an idea. Anyways, best of luck to you.
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[DeathKnight]

[color=crimson]In sixth grade my best friend was named Michael. We had a recess period after lunch. One time he brought his game boy advanced to show me a game which was against the rules, but GBAs were pretty easy to hide in your backpack/pocket. A group of eight graders saw it though, made fun of him and told on him. They confiscated his game boy and Michael was really pissed.

Inside the hallways after recess, he saw kind of the ringleader of the group of boys and started arguing with him. The older boy just kind of shoved him into the lockers. Michael was a good bit shorter than the older boy, but wouldn't drop it. He started hitting the older boy with a really sturdy looking binder and they started fighting.

The older boy knocks the binder out of his hand and just grabs Michael by the throat. Up until this point I had been standing there telling the two of them to drop it and that it wasn't worth it to fight. Now Michael was being choked in front of me and I kind of didn't know what to do, lol. I remember telling him to let him the **** go or I was going to kick his *** or something to that effect. I was on par with the older boy in height and he threw Michael to the floor.. right as a teacher came around the corner.

The older boy and Michael both got pretty bad ISS punishments for fighting in the halls. I don't think we could ever convince them that he was being choked.

It was pretty wild for having started with a GBA.[/color]

[Rachmaninoff]

[quote name='Darren']And if the teachers would actually take time to get to know their students (seriously, it wouldn't be that hard to figure out who the problem kids are with only about 125 to a grade) they would have known that he wasn't the type to shoot up the school. He [I]is[/I] a gun enthusiast, but he's one of the smartest people I know. He's an honor student, and he had been telling us (myself and our friends) about that trenchcoat for a long time, and he was really excited about it. [/QUOTE]I have only one question and that's to wonder if you live in a rural area or something. Only 125 kids to a grade? The high school closest to where I live has over 2,000 students for the three grades attending. There's no way in hell that the teachers have enough time to get to know each kid. That's a bit unrealistic to expect them to do that really. Teachers do have a life besides working for the school.

As for my own stories? I've never really run into much in the way of violence at school, either in High School or College. I know fights and such do happen, I've just never been around to see any of them.

[Metalcore501]

My school is I guess you could say on the borderline, my school is more into drugs and ****. We had maybe 2 or 3 bomb threats, 2 brothers threaten to bring in guns and shoot some kids and teachers on a 'list'. Fights are normal around my school although they almost never go past a few shoves, the teachers keep a good watch on the place. But when I get into a fight gods there is a brawl I don't stop till their down and bleeding anyone! It's hard to take down teachers, I got into a fight with my 5th grade teacher he ripped a 75 doller hoodie I just got. He grabbed my neck tight and told him to get the **** off me mistake #1, they I pushed him off me and punched him in the stomach mistake #2, and then I punched him in the face mistake #3. But anyway back on topic I do think that violance is going WAY up.

[Kei]

[color=darkblue][size=1]Has the number of school shootings gone up in the past coule of years? Somewhat.

Has the amount of violence increased in schools? Yes and no.

Where I went to school, violence was pretty commonplace. We had at least a fight everyday in each of the schools that I went to. And I do mean knockdown, drag-out fights, by the way. Then there was the riot in my junior year of high school. That was pretty awesome. ¬_¬

I believe that the levels of extremes that some kids are going to nowadays has gone up, if anything at all. I remember growing up that we really didn't have anything like bomb threats, but we did have to deal with guns and things of that nature.

As far as the amount of violence that happened before some of the more recent major incidents happened, I'm not so sure. True, that's largely because I don't have the statistics sitting right in front of me to reference, but I also don't think that "normal" (for lack of better term) violence is really on the rise. I could be completely wrong on this, but that's what I think.[/color][/size]

[Vicky]

[SIZE=1]Our school used to be incredibly violent, methinks, but it calmed down in my second year or so. We're the only year left who's been in school since it was crap and saw it become an Enterprise College (some kind of posh term, dunno what the **** it means). The violence is normally our year's doing =), though I don't actually fight myself unless I can get away with it (which, surprisingly, I can).

One year a kid in our 'group', for lack of a better term, brought in a knife to threaten someone. For months after all the alternative kids got crap for that; we weren't trusted on the corridors like we used to be and only when a few started complaining to our parents did they calm down. It's not as extreme as the trenchcoat incident, but it was pretty crap.

The same kid who was threatened with a knife got thrown down the stairs and threatened with death by myself, though, for calling me an American Idiot (in referrence to the song I don't like).

I'm not sure about other schools but the violence is our school isn't as extreme, though it's there. Little scruffles and insults, but it's due to the massive difference in groups. There's either extreme, or 'normal'. You don't get inbetween, and we're outnumbered. But it's okay, because we're the last year group in the school to have a clothing sense and music sense ¬_¬ once we're gone, they're probably won't be any arguments.

I've gotten into too many fights in school, normally outside with school kids, but I don't want to take crap from anyone. Plus, younger kids need to learn to shut up. It's lucky I don't get in too much trouble, because I should be excluded for threatening behaviour. I haven't brought in a gun yet, though I probably will at some point this year. Pisses me off.

If kids just shut the **** up, there probably wouldn't be any violence. They just annoy each other, and especially annoy the people who [i]don't do anything[/i] do them. Bleh.[/SIZE]

[Korey]

At the school in the neighborhood I live in, there is a lot of violence and gang activity that goes on and the administration tries to curb it to the best of their abilities, but they can't stem it off completely. I didn't go to that school because my mom wanted me to go to a safe school. My school that I went to wasn't rife with violence like other schools, but it did happen every now and then. Mostly it was the losers that were too stupid to realize that they get put in alternative education over a petty dispute. I wouldn't say that I never got into fights, but most of the fights I got into were off campus.

Two of the wrestlers on our wrestling team were being harassed by the baseball team once. They were smaller guys and it got so bad as to them both getting swirlies from the baseball team. As the captain of the team, I wouldn't take that sitting down. It was time to regulate. So I told the guys that every day, when they were done with class that they would come out to my car. One day, four guys from the baseball team were harassing them. They just calmly walked over to my car and when the baseball team got there, it was time to throw down. Our coach told us never to let anyone harass us, but never to use violence to solve it because we could really hurt people with the stuff we knew. That went out the door pretty quick because this was going too far. We started to argue and shove each other, but then I decided it was time to throw down. I tackled the guy that was pushing me and punched him in the face. It was pretty bad, because I ended up breaking his nose and cracking one of his ribs. The other guys tried to pull me off of him , but the other wrestlers that were there (the ones being harassed) jumped in and joined the melee. Two of them managed to get away, but we sent our message. Don't **** with the smaller guys on the wrestling team, cause the big guys will beat your *** next.

I don't advicate violence in schools, but I am stern practioner of standing up for your teammates and others when the situation calls for it. Columbine was a tragedy, so was Virginia Tech. However, trying to say any act of school violence means that it is escalating is a load of crap. Violence has always been around in schools. Kids are going to get in fights. As parents, we need to teach them how to cope with problems and how to solve problems through non-violent means. But that doesn't mean we tell them that they don't need to defend themselves when the need be.

[Retribution]

[quote name='Rachmaninoff']I have only one question and that's to wonder if you live in a rural area or something. Only 125 kids to a grade? The high school closest to where I live has over 2,000 students for the three grades attending. There's no way in hell that the teachers have enough time to get to know each kid. That's a bit unrealistic to expect them to do that really. Teachers do have a life besides working for the school.[/QUOTE]
[font=Arial]My class had 197 students in it, but I live near an urban center. His point is valid, especially since there's only 125 kids in his grade.

If teachers not only teach the students, but form lasting relationships with them and really bond, I think the chances of a shooting are significantly decreased. Not only does school become a positive environment, but the teachers are more able to detect a student who is being bullied or exhibits dangerous signs.

In any event, I don't really think it's right that they quarantine a kid based solely off the fact he wore a trench coat to school, although he had to know going in it would arouse some suspicion.

Now if America would just get its **** together and ban guns...[/font]

[Odin M Yggdrasi]

[quote name='Retribution'][font=Arial]
Now if America would just get its **** together and ban guns...[/font][/QUOTE]

It would be more efficient to ban the idiots that let guns fall into the hands of people who do not use them properly.

More than once now I've had to shoot a wild critter that was threatening my family's herd or even one of us directly, the issues occur when people who don't know when and where to use them get their hands on them.

I don't like guns either, but they do have their place and proper use.

Also, I would like to point out Scotland, they banned guns and are now the most violent country in the world- because many a would be thief or rapist in other countries is deterred by the fact that his victim might just shoot back. Most criminals aren't going to bother legally obtaining a gun to use in a crime, but banning them would eliminate any chance of honest and law abiding citizens to defend themselves.

Mostly it is a matter of instead of outright banning them, they need more efficient regulation of them- preferably a scheme that is less hassle for legitimate owners of them.

I have no idea how many were in my high school, though being in a small town surrounded by farms it couldn't have been that many, and mine was one of the larger schools in the area.

[Chaos]

Well said, Odin. Banning guns would be, metaphorically, comparable to a mother telling her child to not eat a cookie before dinner. It just encourages untoward behavior, not to mention the deniable benefits weapons DO offer.


[quote]Originally posted by Darren

Then this year, there's already been two fights, a "stabbing" if you'd call it that, (this kid got stabbed with a knife on his hand and had to have surgery to reconnect some tendons) And a gun threat...[/quote]

Haha, sounds like my first month in middle school. >_>

The saddest part is I am entirely serious. And that was a while back now. So no, I don't think that violence has increased in schools. I believe that more and more media coverage on such events make the frequency of these incidents seem much higher. I also think another factor is location. You'll find more [i]school[/i] shootings and attempts in rural and suburban environments and other violent crimes such as fights and deadly weapon abuse in urban settings. It's odd, but it's how people think, a lot of times.

As for myself, I've been in more fights than I can count, and been jumped more than five times in my life. My high school contributed greatly to this; Riverdale always had the reputation for having at least weekly fights. This was mostly because of it's location between East and West bank Orleans and Jefferson Parish. Lots of different people and different areas throwing up gang signs, both literally and figuratively.

I supposed I'm a little desensitized to it. My sophomore year we had a record four bomb threats. By the third time I just walked out and went to work.

[The Spectacular Professor]

[quote name='Retribution'][font=Arial]Now if America would just get its **** together and ban guns...[/font][/QUOTE]

I'm just gonna go with the crowd and say... no, just no.

If someone's dead set to kill you, which is illegal, they're not gonna concern themselves with legal weapons. It's far more efficient to encourage someone sane and responsible to carry a gun, so as to shoot the shooter. Think about it: Virginia Tech. If Crazy McIdiot wasn't the only one carrying a gun, you think he'd have made it all the way through the building? No. [U]He[/U] would've gotten shot back. Not that I love guns. Far from it. But we can't all be Batman. There are practical uses for guns.

Anyway, School violence in general. I live in what I like to call "North Mexico." it's a small, drug-ridden craphole in the middle of Northwest America. Don't get me wrong, I have a good many Mexican friends, but part of the culture is gang affiliation. Our school is considered to be in a state of Nirvana if we don't have 3 fights a week. The worst part of this is what most of the fights are over.

Boyfriend/girlfriend quarrels.

Let's dissect the logic, shall we?

Point 1: If they cheated on you, are they really worth fighting over?

Point 2: "Yes, I'm flattered that you think enough of me to fight over me like that, but I kind of feel sorry for the guy you just beat the everloving crap out of..."

And it becomes apparent what I have suspected for 3 years: My school is full of militant idiots. When I hear about a fight (that's right... they're SCHEDULED.) I usually tip off my dad, who works at the school, because it's a pain to fill out all that paperwork over hearsay, and if I break 'em up myself (which I most assuredly CAN,) I get in trouble.

Also, we have bomb threats from time to time. We never find any bombs, but you don't wanna take that risk. Most of the paranoia is reasonable, but "no hoods indoors?" Seriously? Is there a Hoodie Jihad going on somewhere I should know about?

[eleanor]

[quote name='Rachmaninoff']I have only one question and that's to wonder if you live in a rural area or something. Only 125 kids to a grade? The high school closest to where I live has over 2,000 students for the three grades attending. There's no way in hell that the teachers have enough time to get to know each kid. That's a bit unrealistic to expect them to do that really. Teachers do have a life besides working for the school.

As for my own stories? I've never really run into much in the way of violence at school, either in High School or College. I know fights and such do happen, I've just never been around to see any of them.[/QUOTE]

[font="trebuchet ms"] 125 kids a grade is nothing compared to 2000 students in an entire high school, which evens out to about 500 a grade. Having only 125 students in each grade is just incredibly, incredibly small. I might be saying this because I go to a 2000+ student high school, but seriously.

As for my school, the kids who got into fights were the minority groups from a different part of the county. We have about seven fights, but the community my high school is located in was pretty much ranked the third best place to raise a child in America. So yeah, there's not really any internal violence in our community.[/font]

[Rachmaninoff]

[quote name='Retribution'][font=Arial]My class had 197 students in it, but I live near an urban center. His point is valid, especially since there's only 125 kids in his grade.

If teachers not only teach the students, but form lasting relationships with them and really bond, I think the chances of a shooting are significantly decreased. Not only does school become a positive environment, but the teachers are more able to detect a student who is being bullied or exhibits dangerous signs.[/font][/QUOTE]Not with out knowing how many kids per teacher here. Even if there is less students, you're most likely talking about a whole lot less teachers as well. And even then, a teacher can only do so much, if they have a good number of kids they are teaching, its just not going to be possible for them to truly know all of them. If anyone needs to be watching for danger signs it's the parents of the kids who really know them. Teachers can only do so much with the limited time they spend with each kid.
[quote name='Lunox'][font="trebuchet ms"] 125 kids a grade is nothing compared to 2000 students in an entire high school, which evens out to about 500 a grade. Having only 125 students in each grade is just incredibly, incredibly small. I might be saying this because I go to a 2000+ student high school, but seriously. [/font][/QUOTE]Actually that translates into about 666 students per grade since I said the [I]three grades attending[/I]. 10, 11 & 12. Grades 7, 8 & 9 are in the junior high. I guess it must be different where you are. Though that's true even here in Utah as depending on the area, some High Schools are 9-12 where others are 10-12 as far as the grades go.

[eleanor]

[quote name='Rachmaninoff']
Actually that translates into about 666 students per grade since I said the [I]three grades attending[/I]. 10, 11 & 12. Grades 7, 8 & 9 are in the junior high. I guess it must be different where you are. Though that's true even here in Utah as depending on the area, some High Schools are 9-12 where others are 10-12 as far as the grades go.[/QUOTE]

[font="trebuchet ms"] Ok, but that sort of strengthens my point. 125 students versus 666... big difference. I'm not saying teachers are supposed to get in their faces and get to know them all, but if a group of teachers can't keep track of 125 students, they maybe shouldn't be teachers. And by 'know' I mean judge whether they'd become violent and harm other students, which can be hard, yeah, but teachers should at least have a general idea.[/font]

[The Spectacular Professor]

[quote name='Lunox'][font="trebuchet ms"] Ok, but that sort of strengthens my point. 125 students versus 666... big difference. I'm not saying teachers are supposed to get in their faces and get to know them all, but if a group of teachers can't keep track of 125 students, they maybe shouldn't be teachers. And by 'know' I mean judge whether they'd become violent and harm other students, which can be hard, yeah, but teachers should at least have a general idea.[/font][/QUOTE]

Actually, being a teacher is hard work. You've got paperwork, after school hours, attendance sheets, teaching itself. I should know, My dad's a teacher. On tho of all that, it's basically the most thankless job in the world. The kids don't feel grateful, half the parents think of you as a tax-based babysitter, the pay is terrible, plus you don't have much time to get to know the kids one on one in the first place. I do what I can myself to keep my dad informed about the little psychopaths he teaches, although he's actually pretty good at picking out the problem kids (he teaches band. band is an elective. If you're there to spew crap, you don't need to be there at all.)

[Rachmaninoff]

[quote name='Lunox'][font="trebuchet ms"] Ok, but that sort of strengthens my point. 125 students versus 666... big difference. I'm not saying teachers are supposed to get in their faces and get to know them all, but if a group of teachers can't keep track of 125 students, they maybe shouldn't be teachers. And by 'know' I mean judge whether they'd become violent and harm other students, which can be hard, yeah, but teachers should at least have a general idea.[/font][/QUOTE]Let me ask you as well as everyone else here, how many of you actually teach? Do you even have any idea how much work goes into it? Let alone attempting to keep track of all of your students? Unless your lucky and the school has it prepared for you, which usually they don't. You have to prepare everything yourself, from the tests, lessons, course syllabus, etc. And that doesn't include keeping on top of those assignments handed in if you aren't lucky enough to warrant an assistant to help you with grading.

I'll tell you right now, it's not anywhere as easy as people think. Even if you only have thirty students. Though I've got more than that. XP And that doesn't even include the students I give private lessons too. So though you can on some level pick up on your students, thinking teachers can keep track of the kids is stupid. We aren't trained to look for problem behavior in that respect. We're taught to look for the more obvious signs like stupid stuff with trench coats and such. I won't argue that in the cases where there are less students it's easier. But I hope parents and people aren't expecting it.

Yeah it sucks that because of other incidents something as simple as clothing is considered a potential problem. Stereotyping certainly isn't very effective and often it's stupid as hell in my opinion. I have a trench coat, but after all the stupid stuff that's happened, I never wear the damn thing. It's just not worth all the stupid looks I get.

[Sandy]

Youth violence is a serious issue, and blaming the teachers or the school system doesn't help. These sort of problems stem in most cases from home, how the youth have been raised and with what attitudes.

If they are taught that it's okay to punch someone if they did something to you, then of course that becomes their defense mechanism. Violence just seems to be the answer to everything nowadays. :/

*thinks about the people of Burma who are being slaughtered by their government for wanting democracy*

[quote name='Odin M Yggdrasi']Also, I would like to point out Scotland, they banned guns and are now the most violent country in the world- because many a would be thief or rapist in other countries is deterred by the fact that his victim might just shoot back.[/quote]

You're so full of it. First of all, Scotland isn't even a country, it's part of United Kingdoms. And it most definitely is far from the most violent places in the world.

Most European countries don't have civilians walking with guns, since no one's allowed to carry them in public. So it's not the fear of getting shot that's preventing thieves and rapists, it's the general atmosphere of safety.

I'm not saying that nothing bad ever happens over this side of the Atlantic, but you better go check on some statistics before you throw that kind of crap around.

[quote]Most criminals aren't going to bother legally obtaining a gun to use in a crime, but banning them would eliminate any chance of honest and law abiding citizens to defend themselves.[/QUOTE]

Shooting someone isn't a legal way of self-defense, at least not in my part of the world. And you make it worse by saying it's the only way of self-defence.

We use mainly words, cellphones, portable alarms, pepper sprays and our fists to protect ourselves here. Sure, they won't help you in a gunfight, but they prevent you from going to jail for overprotection instead of the assailant.

[The Spectacular Professor]

[quote name='Sandy']Shooting someone isn't a legal way of self-defense, at least not in my part of the world. And you make it worse by saying it's the only way of self-defence.

We use mainly words, cellphones, portable alarms, pepper sprays and our fists to protect ourselves here. Sure, they won't help you in a gunfight, but they prevent you from going to jail for overprotection instead of the assailant.[/QUOTE]

The point was, shooting BACK is usually an accepted method by police. You don't have to shoot to kill. Heck, I know a few choice leg areas you only have to poke to remove mobility temporarily. I'm a martial artist, I know there's more than one way of disarming someone. I hate guns, but not everyone knows how to paralyze a gun arm before the attacker can react. Fastest method of disarming otherwise? Another gun. I'm just saying that you have to do what you can to stay alive.

[Vicky]

[SIZE=1]Giving a man a gun to defend himself means he's going to shoot the attacker - dead. Civilians don't have police training and, therefore, are as dangerous as any crazy drugged up murderer.

And Scotland is not violent, don't care if the media says it is, it's pretty damn safe. It depends on the area.

There aren't many school shootings in England, to my knowledge, because obtaining a gun is hard, being... illegal and all. Not saying no one [i]owns[/i] a gun, but it's going to be harder to obtain one. High-school shootings aren't too popular because normally kids aren't involved too much with gangs to obtain arms.[/SIZE]

[The Spectacular Professor]

[quote name='Vicky'][SIZE=1]There aren't many school shootings in England, to my knowledge, because obtaining a gun is hard, being... illegal and all. Not saying no one [i]owns[/i] a gun, but it's going to be harder to obtain one. High-school shootings aren't too popular because normally kids aren't involved too much with gangs to obtain arms.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

You know, you just hit the nail right on the head. It really depends on your area, but one of the main problems where I live is gangs. Therefore, you see more knives and drugs and such.

However, gun use is strictly restricted even in the States. For example, you need a special license to own one in the first place. On top of that, you can't legally obtain automatic weapons, concealed weapnos are hard to justify and the police always have more bullets than you. I would, admittedly, be much happier if the gun was never invented, but it seems a nessecary evil in many parts of the world.

[Aaryanna]

[COLOR="goldenrod"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"][quote name='Darren;792707]Is it just me or is the "edginess" of the faculty actually pushing violence further? People have alwasy said, if you tell someone not to do it, they ususally do just to see if they could get away with it. (which is the case of the knife at school) And our school has actually banned usage of the word "gun," unless it's in context of a story we're reading or a discussion of certain things. (such as war, or deer hunting)[/QUOTE]Wow, you've got to be kidding me. The faculty being nervous isn't going to make the violence worse. I would think that would come from the kids sneaking knives in, parents doing nothing to teach them about not hurting others, etc. And the idea that telling someone not to do something makes them want to do it? Do you really think if they say nothing the kids won't bring knives or guns to school? Think about what you're saying here, indirectly you seem to be implying that they shouldn't have a rule against guns or knives, that they shouldn't tell the kids to not bring them. As if that would somehow put an end to the violence. [QUOTE=Darren']And then yesterday, I found out that one of my closest friends was locked in a room for TWO HOURS because HE WORE A TRENCHCOAT! Is that even legal? There's been no mention of not wearing trenchcoats to school. And if the teachers would actually take time to get to know their students (seriously, it wouldn't be that hard to figure out who the problem kids are with only about 125 to a grade) they would have known that he wasn't the type to shoot up the school. He [I]is[/I] a gun enthusiast, but he's one of the smartest people I know. He's an honor student, and he had been telling us (myself and our friends) about that trenchcoat for a long time, and he was really excited about it.

While they were in the room, they implied that he was the "type" of person to do that. (EG: Shy and reserved) They also told him that wearing a trenchcoat was a red flag for school shooting. I understand that during Columbine, they boys wore trenchcoats to school, but that's just idiotic to assume that everyone who wears one means they are a killer.[/QUOTE]Considering what happened, and yes I know it's a stereotype, your friend would have been better off not wearing a trenchcoat to school, especially if he really is the shy and reserved type. As for thinking teachers should be able to spot problem kids, I disagree. They already have a hard job that doesn't pay enough, and teaching is a lot of work! Let along spending the extra time needed to actually get to know the students.

I love how people are implying and saying if they can't notice problem students they shouldn't be teaching... When everyone knows it's their job to teach and not babysit the students. I could see it for the younger grades since often there are less students, and problem kids are easier to spot since most of the kids I saw hadn't figured out how to hide the behavior. But even then, attempting to blame the teachers? That's just lame. Especially if it's high school students, by then the ones that have problems have learned to hide it to a certain extent. You know... appearing shy and reserved.

There's plenty of violence where I live, I've never encountered it myself, but we have students getting sent home early or even expelled for bringing things like guns or knives to school. And guess what? It was one of those teachers, who wasn't trained to spot problem kids and yet still did more than their job required and did. It stands to reason that someone who isn't trained is going to pick out someone as a problem who really isn't because [B]one:[/B] they are going on the most obvious clues, including stereotypes, and [B]two:[/B] they don't have the time to really know each kid and realize that the one in question isn't a problem. So seriously, your teachers are doing their best to keep an eye out, so stop giving them grief over it. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[Vicky]

[SIZE=1]On the issue of teachers not being able to spot kids, I think one of the solutions would be less kids, spread students out in schools or more teachers (not necessarily teachers, teaching assistants, all those other random staff we seem to have lurking in the cupboards). I think we started out with three hundred students and keep raising each year, as do the staff, some not even teachers.

If you ask a teacher about a child in any year (in my own school, the only reference I have, haha), they know they're name, most things about them... spot the troubled kids easy. I don't think this is because we have oh-amazing teachers, it's because the students and teachers even out. Also, it's too professional sometimes. There are those teachers who won't talk to a student after the bell rings, and those who will. And those that will (especially in my case) I would actually consider more friends than teachers. I'd rather go and ***** with my RE Teacher than pull a gun on the idiot who annoyed me.

I reckon school is crap enough sometimes, the violence, especially gun crime, doesn't have a place in school and shouldn't make school so dangerous. It's just not far - no one should scare you into not learning because they're idiots. I think that's why I keep posting in this thread XD[/SIZE]

[eleanor]

[quote name='Rachmaninoff']Let me ask you as well as everyone else here, how many of you actually teach? Do you even have any idea how much work goes into it? Let alone attempting to keep track of all of your students? Unless your lucky and the school has it prepared for you, which usually they don't. You have to prepare everything yourself, from the tests, lessons, course syllabus, etc. And that doesn't include keeping on top of those assignments handed in if you aren't lucky enough to warrant an assistant to help you with grading.

I'll tell you right now, it's not anywhere as easy as people think. Even if you only have thirty students. Though I've got more than that. XP And that doesn't even include the students I give private lessons too. So though you can on some level pick up on your students, thinking teachers can keep track of the kids is stupid. We aren't trained to look for problem behavior in that respect. We're taught to look for the more obvious signs like stupid stuff with trench coats and such. I won't argue that in the cases where there are less students it's easier. But I hope parents and people aren't expecting it.

[/QUOTE]

[font="trebuchet ms"] I guess I'm just used to going to a great school, then.

Yeah, teaching is hard. We know that. I'm not saying teachers should keep tabs on every students and know intimate details about their behavioral patterns, but they should know which ones are outgoing or quiet or whatever. The basics should be easy to pick up on when you have 125 students in a grade. Maybe if the guy wore a trench coat and was known for being an outsider and distant, then his calling out would make more sense (not that having those qualities makes you a violent person).[/font]