Heavy Metal: A Head Banger's Discussion Thread

[MissWem]

[quote name='Jakehammaren']Wow. You made it through every single page? Jeez... I feel like I owe you money or something...[/QUOTE]

[FONT="Arial"][COLOR="Sienna"]Yes, I can send you my account number if you like[/COLOR][/FONT]

[quote name='Jakehammaren']
By the way, "Symphonic Metal" is not a genre. Kamelot is power metal.[/QUOTE]

[FONT="Arial"][COLOR="Sienna"][COLOR="Sienna"]I acknowledge that mistake (I realized after looking them up but didn't get time to come back for an edit), but after reading so many pages I could've sworn I saw that phrase, misused clearly.

Anyhow, after much arguing amongst everyone about sub-genre I'm rather surprised no one has done it yet:

[SIZE="4"][B]What defines metal?[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT="Arial"][COLOR="Sienna"]I know now that just because the music is heavy it isn't neccessarily metal, so what makes bands like, Allagoch, Kamelot, Killswitch, Arch Enemy, Wintersun etc. etc. fall into the category because they are all quite differently styled, to the point where (to my unknowledgeable self) you could almost create new genres out of them.

[SIZE="1"]P.S Tool, no... just no.[/SIZE]
[/COLOR][/FONT]

[Panache]

[QUOTE]I actually sat down and read through all 23 pages of this thread which took me about 3, 3 and a half hours to do so, only because I actually made attempts at looking up a few bands that got recommended on each page to see if I liked them.[/QUOTE]Ohhh that must ve been...fun.


[QUOTE]What defines metal?[/QUOTE]
Yes it is surprising no one has asked this yet.

[0ber0n the Neko]

[quote name='MissWem']What defines metal?[/QUOTE]

I seem to recall Jake having a much better description than the one I'm about to give you, but here's my take on it.

Firstly, defining any genre is difficult, because there are so many creative minds in all forms of music that everything, on one level or another, sounds distinct. In the case of Metal, there is most certainly a center around darker chord progressions, and technicality in guitars and drums. Metal, as a whole, seems to have a more intense drive to it, or at least a more powerful element to the songwriting, that makes it a much less passive form of music.

However, defining metal by its subgenres is a lot less ambiguous and headache inducing.

[Justin]

[quote name='MissWem'][FONT="Arial"][COLOR="Sienna"]Killswitch[/SIZE]
[/COLOR][/FONT][/QUOTE]

That's one band that [i]doesn't[/i] define metal. I don't care what they claim; they're not.

Metal is certainly musically based in the darker chord progressions. It's also centric on technical guitars and drums, generally; but this is not always the case. For instance, doom and stoner metal general aren't focus on technical prowess.

What separates heavy metal from its imitators--like Killswitch Engage--is for one thing, a general common purpose. Metal should be defiant, non-conforming, uncommercialized, original, aggressive, true to itself, solid music.

Bands like Killswitch Engage, Haste the Day, Atreyu, Bleeding Through, etc. fail in several of those categories. Too many, in fact, to be considered true metal. They're fodder for the masses. Borderline teeny-bopper music, for the most part. Yes, they're aggressive, but it's false aggression.

Metal is where punk gets its attitude. Metal is where rock gets its edge. Metal is the diamond in the rough of all modern music. It's hard to nail down, but when you're a metalhead, you know.

-Justin

[Jakehammaren]

[quote name='0ber0n the Neko']In the case of Metal, there is most certainly a center around darker chord progressions, and technicality in guitars and drums.[/QUOTE]

Nope. Power metal = not dark chord progressions. Black metal = not technical guitars. Both generally speaking, as there are exceptions, but overall, that's the case for both.

I'm not going to bother defining the whole genre, as it takes a while and I do it too often to have the motivation while I'm this tired. Just know that the descriptions provided thus far are not a good basis for knowing what you're talking about. A good general rule of thumb, however, is "if it's advertised by Hot Topic, it's not metal". There are a few exceptions to this (Immortal, Amon Amarth, and Iced Earth are all bands whose shirts can be found at Hot Topics on occasion but are actually quality metal bands).

Killswitch Engage is not a metal band, by the way.

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="77656"]Killswitch is meta[B]lcore.[/B] If you listen to their newer songs, the only one lcose to metal is the cover of Dio's Holy Diver. I don't know if it's even metal at all, but it sounds like it it. The other songs are metalcore, while I hate metalcore a lot, Killswitch Engage is one of my favorite metalcore bands, and I think they're sort of unique in their gennre.

However, they won a music award for best metal performance on MTV, shows just how much Music TV really knows about metal.[/COLOR]

[Goodbye, Face]

[quote name='Premonition'][COLOR="77656"]Killswitch Engage is one of my favorite metalcore bands, and I think they're sort of unique in their gennre.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[font=arial][size=1][b]NO.[/b]

Unique for metalcore is stuff like Prayer for Cleansing and old Between the Buried and Me. Also, some of the stuff from Botch, Heavy Heavy Low Low, and even Underoath are pretty unique to other metalcore bands (but not everything they do is really metalcore either).

Killswitch is the epitome of a metalcore band, they do absolutely everything a metalcore band should. That's why they're so terrible, haha.[/font][/size]

[2010DigitalBoy]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]So I was introduced to some hilariously foreign band called Otyg and was wondering if they count as metal or what. Their stuff didn't sound particularly good, but they, too, did a cover of Holy Diver that is ****ING AWESOME.

[url]http://youtube.com/watch?v=zQH4tWPNJkY[/url][/COLOR]

[Justin]

The Killswitch question has been covered now. Let's move on: The new Iced Earth [i]Framing Armageddon[/i]. Reactions?

-Justin

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="77656"][quote name='Kam]The [I]Killswitch [/I]question has been [I]covered [/I']now.[/quote]
Pointed out for irony.

Anyways, I've never really listened to Iced Earth so I wouldn't know about the album at all. But what kind of metal are they?[/COLOR]

[Justin]

Power metal. I got the CD the other day. I'll say this for it: It's ambitious. I enjoy Iced Earth quite a bit, and always have. I like how much attention to details exists on this record; ie. they used [i]real[/i] instruments instead of trying to use synth effects.

Now, I'm still not as big of a fan of Tim Owens as I am their previous singer, whose name escapes me. Sure, he's got a resume, but I just don't think he fits Iced Earth as well.

-Justin

[Jakehammaren]

[quote name='2008DigitalBoy'][COLOR="DarkOrange"]So I was introduced to some hilariously foreign band called Otyg and was wondering if they count as metal or what. Their stuff didn't sound particularly good, but they, too, did a cover of Holy Diver that is ****ING AWESOME.

[url]http://youtube.com/watch?v=zQH4tWPNJkY[/url][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

"Hilariously" foreign? Not particularly good?

...

You know what? Do me and the band a huge favor and don't listen to them. Ever.

[Justin]

Remember who you're talking to Jake. He knows nothing, and doesn't seem to want to.

That said, Otyg is quite good.

-Justin

[Panache]

I need a recommendation. For a death metal band that mostly sings about anger and things of that sort and is pretty visceral. It would be nice if their vocals were similar to Torture Squad.

[Justin]

[quote name='Panache']I need a recommendation. For a death metal band that mostly sings about anger and things of that sort and is pretty visceral. It would be nice if their vocals were similar to Torture Squad.[/QUOTE]

Behemoth, Morbid Angel, Malevolent Creation, Blood Red Throne, Aeon, Death, Atheist, Bolt Thrower, Suffocation, Obituary, Kataklysm, Deicide, Cryptopsy, Krisiun, Hypocrisy, Cannibal Corpse...I could on and on.

I don't know what Torture Squad's vocals sound like, and I really don't care, but these are some really pissed off death metal bands that'll probably crank your tractor just fine.

-Justin


***You know, the search feature we have here at OB is amazing. I found Jake's first post...ever. I just have this to say, and it's something I'm keeping:

\m/ (>.<) \m/

[2010DigitalBoy]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]the album Hope by Swallow the sun is one of the best metal albums I've heard in a while. The ony complaint I could possibly have is what will draw in most of it's fans - it is VERY grinding and dark. For instance, Doomed to Walk the Earth was basically too much for me, however other songs, such as the totle song, Hope, and Don't Fall Asleep (Horror Part 2) are awesome. [/COLOR]

[Goodbye, Face]

[font=arial][size=1]Atheist is death metal? I own Elements and I've heard some of their older stuff but I had them pegged for progressive metal. They're nothing at all like Cannibal Corpse, for example.

Explain?[/font][/size]

[Justin]

Death metal is an incredibly expansive genre, and the bands I included in that list are there for their "pissed offness", not their similarities.

Atheist is one of the leaders in both the technical death metal and progressive death metal sub genres. [i]Elements[/i] is certainly their most jazz-oriented album, but I assure, it is death metal; albeit the progressive flavor thereof.

Cannibal Corpse is generally listed as brutal death metal. Thus, I didn't suggest Cannibal Corpse and Atheist sounded anything alike. Merely that they're both pissed off, lyrically speaking.

Should I go through a rough breakdown of all those bands' sub genres to satisfy you? Because I really don't want to.

-Justin

[Jakehammaren]

[quote name='2008DigitalBoy'][COLOR="DarkOrange"]the album Hope by Swallow the sun is one of the best metal albums I've heard in a while. The ony complaint I could possibly have is what will draw in most of it's fans - it is VERY grinding and dark. For instance, Doomed to Walk the Earth was basically too much for me, however other songs, such as the totle song, Hope, and Don't Fall Asleep (Horror Part 2) are awesome. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Stop listening to Swallow the Sun.

[2010DigitalBoy]

[quote name='Jakehammaren']Stop listening to Swallow the Sun.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Maybe after you stop being a douchebag? Telling people not to listen to bands because they don't like them for the right reasons is ****ing stupid, grow up. [/COLOR]

[Petie]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=blue]Jake and DB, this is the second warning about going completely off topic and arguing in this thread. Both of you are entitled to your own opinions and you should respect that fact. Get this thread back on topic or simply stop posting in it because you two going at each other really has no place here.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[Jakehammaren]

After I stop being a douchebag? Um... have you not noticed that I've been nothing but a douchebag for the three years I've been on this forum? I've actually been informed that I have accumulated 3 Official Douchebaggery Points (ODPs) from the moderators for my previous post. I like this new system. Now I can gauge my douchebaggery in a more precise manner.

Kam, I haven't heard the new Iced Earth, though it's nice to hear Matt Barlow is back. He is excellent indeed (though I don't think people give Tim Owens enough credit... I think he did a great job).

And Face, never use Cannibal Corpse as the comparison point for Death Metal. They certainly don't epitomize the genre. In fact, they're pretty low-tier death metal.

Oh, and Kam, it might not have been my first post ever. I had a different screenname before this one (unless you already knew that and it was my first post with that screenname).

EDIT: Kam, I just read that post of mine.... Holy ****, was I lame. Hahaha!

[Panache]

[quote name='Kam']I don't know what Torture Squad's vocals sound like, and I really don't care, but these are some really pissed off death metal bands that'll probably crank your tractor just fine.
[/QUOTE]

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOHSD6ZrigM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOHSD6ZrigM[/URL]

That is what torture squad sounds like...

Anyway I don't mean a band that sounds angry. I mean a band that signs about anger and has it as theme in many songs. Lot's of bands SOUND angry. Also it's important that they are death metal...

[Goodbye, Face]

[quote name='Jakehammaren']And Face, never use Cannibal Corpse as the comparison point for Death Metal. They certainly don't epitomize the genre. In fact, they're pretty low-tier death metal.[/QUOTE]

[font=arial][size=1]I feel stupid making this post (defending?) myself, but I thought the same thing when I saw them in the same list as Atheist in Kam's post. I was just using CC to point them out, because it was pretty strange seeing an awesome band like Atheist within the same sentence as them.[/font][/size]

[Aberinkula]

[QUOTE]After I stop being a douchebag? Um... have you not noticed that I've been nothing but a douchebag for the three years I've been on this forum? I've actually been informed that I have accumulated 3 Official Douchebaggery Points (ODPs) from the moderators for my previous post. I like this new system. Now I can gauge my douchebaggery in a more precise manner.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="77656"]Yes that is true, but after a while it turns to annoyance, than turns into a thorn on our backs, and soon it will become worse.

Oh yeah, metal right... One is one of Metalica's early metal songs, if memory serves me. But anyways, isn't the newer Metallica considered Hard Rock, or is it still considered metal?[/COLOR]