Heavy Metal: A Head Banger's Discussion Thread

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="Olive"]Cradle is like "me sucky moosic." I admit "Nymphetamine" is good. But the rest of Cradle sucks.

No ones talked about AC/DC, Metallica, the Scorpians, and all the classics? Shame. My mom loves the scorpians. They were alive during the "Glam Rock" era I bilieve. And hell, they're still touring. AC/DC is comming out with a new album. and Metallica has become old and washed up, even though their old crap is good. I'm not sre if Metallica is metal or hard rock though.

Who the **** is Misfits?![/COLOR]

[2010DigitalBoy]

[quote name='Revolver'][COLOR="Olive"]Cradle is like "me sucky moosic." I admit "Nymphetamine" is good. But the rest of Cradle sucks.

No ones talked about AC/DC, Metallica, the Scorpians, and all the classics? Shame. My mom loves the scorpians. They were alive during the "Glam Rock" era I bilieve. And hell, they're still touring. AC/DC is comming out with a new album. and Metallica has become old and washed up, even though their old crap is good. I'm not sre if Metallica is metal or hard rock though.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]
From now on, every tie you mention a large group of not-metal bands, I'm just going to repost the link [url=http://www.metal-archives.com/]Metal Archives[/url].[/COLOR]

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="Olive"]AC/DC and all of them are metal. Just not the metal of today that's all.[/COLOR]

[2010DigitalBoy]

[quote name='Revolver'][COLOR="Olive"]AC/DC and all of them are metal. Just not the metal of today that's all.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Okay, well, see, then they aren't metal. Period. Today is all-encompassing. Do you kive in the ****ing eighties? Okay, that's what I thought. And besides, AC/DC is like southern rock >_> that's how it sounds to me anyway.

Moar metal please. "Raise your swords up high! Hear the blackbirds cry! Let them hear your rage! Show no fear! ATTACK!!!!!!"[/COLOR]

[Goodbye, Face]

[quote name='Revolver'][COLOR="Olive"]
Who the **** is Misfits?![/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[font=arial][size=3]!#&$@*$!!![/size]


[size=1]http://www.myspace.com/themisfits

They're one of the best and most influential punk bands of all time. Now never bring up the Misfits again.[/font][/size]

[Panache]

And this is why I hate talking to metal fans...

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="Olive"]You made me think of Amon Amarth. But I think Jake has said that they were overtaken by the horrid fate of Hot Topic. Why do they torture us? Amon Amarth is good though. I've been told Chimaira is good, but those guys are meh.

Right now I'm listenign to Contorted and Rotting by Condemned. Meh. And now, Scar Symmetry's Pitch Black Progress, which is good. [/COLOR]

[2010DigitalBoy]

[quote name='Revolver'][COLOR="Olive"]You made me think of Amon Amarth. But I think Jake has said that they were overtaken by the horrid fate of Hot Topic.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Nooooooo....... They have gained a bit of popularity in that regard, but they have not lost their musical brilliance. I know for a fact Jake loves With Odin on Our Side, and I know I fully intend to buy it. Was just listening to them a moment ago in fact. Cry of the Black Birds is ****ing legendary.

Now listening to Opeth, though it's fro the Damnation album so I prolly can't talk about it here XD. Maybe I'll switch to Ghost Revs in a sec. Ghost of Perdition = win. [/COLOR]

[Justin]

I thought I specifically asked that this discussion be intelligent. Reading this **** just pisses me off.

The ONE answer to my original question was pathetic, and there's been precisely one intelligent statement in all three pages of this:

[quote name='Jakehammaren']

Secondly, NEVER LEARN ABOUT MUSIC THROUGH WIKIPEDIA.

[/QUOTE]

That is metal gospel my friends. Wikipedia is not God. And it is notoriously incorrect when it comes to metal.

The very nature of metal is that most people can't, won't, and don't want to get it. Clearly, this thread has proven much of that fact.

AC/DC, while an active and direct influence on many metal bands, are not themselves a metal band. Nor are they southern rock. They're not even ****ing American.

They're style is far too blues-based and simplistic to be considered a true metal band. The same 'proto metal' status goes to them as to KISS, Led Zeppelin, Blue Cheer, and many other such acts.

The Misfits are more to metal than just an early hardcore punk band. They helped define how far punk could tread into metal waters before becoming thrash or crossover(predecessor to metalcore). This subsequently lead to them being a large influence on the development of thrash and crossover. Other notable examples are Minor Threat, Black Flag, and the Dead Kennedys.

Now, please stop your uninformed ranting and oneliner postings and think before you post. Do some goddamn research or something.

-Justin

[Guest The Blue Jihad]

Humor injection time.

This Is Spinal Tap.

Carry on.

[Jakehammaren]

Amen, Kam. I hope the following post is intelligent enough for you. It's very late, so it's not nearly as eloquent as it could be, but it gets my points across.

Alright, here we go:

Genres. People who know them can't stand when people get them wrong, and people who are too lazy to figure them out end up using the "GENRES ARENT IMPORTANT" or "GENRES ARE BASED ON OPINION". Those people are, in point of fact, wrong.

Metal is probably the most diverse genre of music available today. You've got everything from Cannibal Corpse and Bloodbath on one end to Rhapsody and Falconer on the other - there's a HUGE gap in style there, but it's all metal at it's core. Sub-genres become very important at this point. If we're debating the roots of a band, and someone says "it's metal", that could mean literally dozens of things.

The reason we (those of the true metal community) are so picky about genres is this: showing knowledge (or at least a willingness to learn) of the ins and outs of metal genres is to show a certain dedication to the music and the scene. With all the horrible poseur bands that are destroying in the public eye the scene we've worked so hard to create, we're very set on keeping it strong on the inside at least. Knowing the difference between death metal and black metal (which is very, very easy to figure out if you spend 5 minutes trying to learn it) shows that care enough about our culture to do a bit of research.

When you sit there and blab incorrectly about genres and proceed to [I]refuse to learn about them or admit that they matter[/I] is what pisses us off. That kind of attitude is present mostly in mallcore kids who seem determined to undermine the integrity of metal at any cost. This will never happen, as the underground is far too self-motivated, but the mallcore scene is definitely a thorn in our sides.

As for the "genres are opinions" argument: that's absolutely ridiculous. If you take a look at it, that argument is bottom-line stupid. If that were the case, I could sit here and say that the Black Eyed Peas are neo-industrial/post-rock/thrash/psychobilly/trance/bluegrass. I could say that Iron Maiden is R&B. Neither of which are the case. At all. You wouldn't argue with me if I showed you a blue crayon and said "it's blue". You wouldn't argue with me if I pointed at a pine tree and said "it's coniferous".

We categorize species, do we not? We separate them into kingdoms, phylums, etc. etc. And guess what? There's a rhyme and reason to it. Scientists didn't just decide to set up that entire system for fun. No, they did to help them understand where everything comes from and where it's going.

This is no different from music. Genres aren't amorphous categories that change based on the whim of the listener. They're concrete categorizations that are in place for a reason. It doesn't cheapen the listening experience if you know the genre of the music you're listening to, as I hear so often. On the contrary, it enriches it. If you know what genre the band is, you can trace it's roots, discover other excellent bands in it's lineage, research the history of it's genre, and perhaps uncover an entire musical sub-culture you never knew about.

Ah... I really could go on, but I'll leave it at this for now and wait for some replies.

And if you have genre questions, please ask me. I know this is going to sound out-of-this-world pretentious, but I know more about metal genres than anyone on this board - and I really do know what I'm talking about. If it's a genre question, I'll be right about it 95% of the time. Really. I'm very involved with metal culture. I'm in four metal bands, one of which is actually signed, and I've spent countless hours researching the history of metal and it's myriad genres. My knowledge on the subject is very deep, and I only say this with such confidence because I've dedicated so much time and effort into understanding it in all the facets I can. I'm a very, very dedicated metal fan, and any reg on this board will not hesitate whatsoever to back up this notion.

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="Olive"]Jake, I was wondering where you got genre information. But reasearch? I thought you had a degree or a person with said info. Now we know you [B]are [/B]a mythological thing on OB.

I'm going to buy an Opeth Album soon. Any suggestions? And Amon Amarth's with Oden on our Side. Amon Amarth is fricken awesome.

Mallcore isn't a thorn, Jake, more like a cancerous cyst on the colon of Metal.[/COLOR]

[Goodbye, Face]

[quote name='Revolver'][COLOR="Olive"]Mallcore isn't a thorn, Jake, more like a cancerous cyst on the colon of Metal.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[font=arial][size=1]Shut up, shut up, shutup shutupshutup... you listen to it!!!

[quote name='Revolver'][COLOR="Olive"]I'm going to buy an Opeth Album soon. Any suggestions?[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Ghost Reveries and Blackwater Park are probably equally their best. There's not much of a difference in their sound between the two, so I'd just go with which ever album cover looks cooler to you.[/font][/size]

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="Olive"]Ghost Reveries sounds much better.

Later on I'm going around the net to research metal and the sub-genre's of metal.

On a side note...

Lamb of god. Everyone I know and their mums like those guys I only like when the Palaces Burn or whatever it's called. Otherwise I tend to steer clear from them. What do you guys think of them?

[size=1]Ten points to whomever get's the "Everyone and their mums" joke.[/COLOR][/size]

[Justin]

It's a thorn. A cancerous cyst can kill. And [i]you can't kill the metal.[/i]

As for Lamb of God, I do enjoy them. They appeal strongly to my love of groove and Southern mentality in metal. Blame Pantera...golden gods of Southern groove.

Lamb of God ain't the best. And I think they're a major contributor to the metalcore problem; but I think they're also a major face of a different metal scene in America to most of the Christianized Hot Topic circle. A slightly abrasive and scary one.

So, now...I'll re-ask this question:

Metalcore; will it evolve into a new pop metal to be digested, not just by the mallcore and 'scene' kids, but by the public at large? If so, is that more of a good thing for metal at large, or a bad one?

Thoughts?

-Justin

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="Olive"]Hypothetically, even if all of those bands sucked major ***, they would have their share of followers. Mallcore kids aren't exactely evil, they could bring metal back, and then the bigger metal dudes will walk in and go "hey!" and they will also share their music. Thus, the world will finally be restored to musical peace and Hip-hop and rap can vask in a pool of shame, blood, and hemp. Than the Anti-metalists would uprise. >_> Bastards...[/COLOR]

[Goodbye, Face]

[font=arial][size=1]I think it's too heavy and too extreme to catch on with the "popular music" crowd. Hair Metal was able to do that because of power ballads, but when metalcore tries to do something like that, we get ******** like what Atreyu has been putting out in their past few releases.

And of course, when metalcore shows a soft side, it's suddenly "Nu-Metal."

Edit: and I loved Lamb of God back when they were Burn the Priest. That was a fun record.[/font][/size]

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="olive"]I've decided to call Nu Metal, ***** metal from now on. For reasons of my own. >_>[/COLOR]

[2010DigitalBoy]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Jake, that post id the epitome of tl;dr. For real for real.

As for Opeth, my favorite album is Ghost Reveries. Blackwater Park is excellent, but it [i]eats you soul[/i]. You have to be in a rare mood to really enjoy it. [/COLOR]

[Panache]

I just started listening to Electric Wizard. I thought they would be some faggy doom metal band but they actually turned out to be a pretty decent sludge metal band. They are like a a southern version of acid bath but slower and on acid rather than speed. I know I will probably be ridiculed by everyone for liking them but who gives a ****.

[Jakehammaren]

[quote name='2007DigitalBoy'][COLOR="DarkOrange"]Jake, that post id the epitome of tl;dr. For real for real.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

What the hell are were you trying to say there?

And either everyone agreed with my previous post, or everyone was too lazy to read it. Either way, I rule.

As for metalcore: surprise surprise, I friggin' hate it. Everything from Lamb of God to Bleeding Through - it's all the same, and it's all horrible.

And sorry Kam, but I think Groove Metal is the lowest rung of metal (unless you count metalcore as metal, which it isn't, because really it's just hardcore punk that uses metal aesthetic). All the Groove Metal bands I've heard sound the same and also sound borderline mallcore. And I really, REALLY can't stand Pantera. Ugh.

As for metalcore being the new Glam - yes. It most definitely is. It's just pop music with some screaming and guitars thrown in. Seriously. Take It Dies Today for example - chugga, chugga, chugga, ripoff Gothenburg riff, chugga, chugga, pop chorus... etc. And when I say pop chorus, I mean it - so many metalcore bands have straight-up pop choruses. All That Remains is another perfect testament to this. It's horrible.

Metalcore has no integrity. It's all image. There are hardly any worthwile metalcore bands at all (Between the Buried and Me being one of the very, very few exceptions to this rule, and I still can't stand them, but at least they write good music). More and more kids are listening to it. The comment about it being too extreme holds no water, if you ask me. Extreme is a completely different thing today then it was when the Sunset Strip ruled the music world. Metalcore is the new "thing".

And Revolver, I think you're very misled as to what the kids listen to these days. I really don't think Hip Hop has nearly the iron grip on the music circuit as you think it does. Sure, it's very popular, but so is rock and roll. I know more trendies that listen to Fallout Boy and the Used than rap 'music', actually. This isn't some jihad against rap.

As Kam said, metal won't die. It survived glam, it survived grunge, it survived nu-metal, and it will survive metalcore. The underground will keep it alive and burning brighter than ever, of course. But things like this are why we get so picky and exclusive.

[Panache]

The kids at my school listen to basically go-go (a local thing) poser pop rock(fall out boy ect...) and very little rap. Usually the only rap they listen to is the kind with an electronic beat. So if the rapper ripped off daft punk it's "hot in the streets." I tried to let one kid listen to what I listen too on a daily basis. So I went ahead and let them hear some Naglfar(aka the light stuff) and that person thinks I am possessed by Satan. Oh and I disagree with Groove Metal being the lowest on the spectrum. I think that would be death metal. I mean a whole genre with vocals that sound like static and a toilet flushing? Gimme a break. Unless that doesn't cout nas metal now...
Oh and I like some metalcore stuff. I mean I like a few of avenged sevenfolds old songs. Also there are a few mathcore bands I like.

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="Olive"]I like the used, as much as I hate to admit it. The Bird and the worm is an awesome song. A7X's meatalcore stuf is the only Metalcore I can stand. Now they're hard rock and metal, which is much betterfor them. Oh, rock is becoming moe numerous where I live. But it's mostly kids who think Unholy Confessions is a great song. A7X has stuff wayyyyyyy better than that. I just can't stand M. shadows. >_> Self-rightious bastard.

I hold a strong grudge against rap, so I tend to bash it a lot.[/COLOR]

[Justin]

Like I said, Groove metal is just a thing for me. In terms of originality, it really is only two shakes above metalcore, but...meh. Groovey **** is what i was raised on. And Pantera, as I said, are the very epitome of Southern Groove. Which makes them appeal even more to me.

Now for this:

What do you guys think about Trivium? Intelligence, coherence, and information, please.

-Justin

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="Olive"]They're not inteligent, not coherent, and no way shape or form, good.[/COLOR]