Heavy Metal: A Head Banger's Discussion Thread

[Jakehammaren]

Justin is right.

And you seem to be forgetting that I actually don't have opinions, only facts that people mistake for opinions.

Anyway, let's talk female vocalists in metal.

Now, before we start, let me outline a few things.

[B]1. OTEP IS NOT A ****ING METAL BAND.
2. THE AGONIST IS NOT A ****ING METAL BAND.
3. WALLS OF JERICHO IS NOT A ****ING METAL BAND.
4. FLYLEAF IS NOT A ****ING METAL BAND.
5. No-one gives a **** about Arch Enemy.
6. I don't care how hott you think Cristina Sabbia is. Don't bring up Lacuna Coil.[/B]

Alright - any thoughts? Interesting bands including female vocalists that we should know about? Let's hear it.

[Panache]

[QUOTE]And sorry Kam, but I think Groove Metal is the lowest rung of metal [/QUOTE]That kinda looks like him saying he thinks they suck just in a different way. But apparently Jakehammeren can only say facts so I guess it must be true.

Anyway I don't really feel like arguing with you Kam. I understand where you are coming from. The bands whole lineup doesn't suck. I just think that the rest of the band doesn't make of for the vocals of those bands. And It's those two specifically not death metal vocals as a whole. Which is a personal preference rather than a all encompassing fact.

P.S. Cannibal Corpse has awesome album covers and T shirts...to bad I can't have a cannibal corpse avatar.

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="77656"]Avenged you really need to stop complaining. Jake isn't always right ya know? So don't go off about how everything he says MUST be a fact, sometimes people are wrong so stop complaining when he's right.

And Jake, at least Arch Enemy is metal, so there really isn't anything to pout over.
Anyways, I don't know why people think Flyleaf is metal. They are less metal than my left nut. Flyleaf is like weak tin, more or less. [/COLOR]

[Panache]

[quote name='Gunslinger'][COLOR="77656"]Avenged you really need to stop complaining. Jake isn't always right ya know? So don't go off about how everything he says MUST be a fact, sometimes people are wrong so stop complaining when he's right.

And Jake, at least Arch Enemy is metal, so there really isn't anything to pout over.
Anyways, I don't know why people think Flyleaf is metal. They are less metal than my left nut. Flyleaf is like weak tin, more or less. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Jakehammaren]
And you seem to be forgetting that I actually don't have opinions, only facts that people mistake for opinions.[/QUOTE]

Obviously you missed this.

[Panache]

[quote name='Gunslinger'][COLOR="77656"]I'm not going to say anything about what Jake said, what I want to say will only cause a fight. And you've seen how fights go in the Metal threads.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

I was just restating what the guy himself stated. I don't actually believe he is never wrong...And I wasn't complaining about anything. Well I guess about how I don't like Dying Fetus but there is nothing wrong with complaining about bands you don't like in the metal thread as long as they are metal bands no?

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="77656"]Oh, I'm just not concintrating tonight. Forget what I said.[/COLOR]

[Jakehammaren]

[quote name='Gunslinger'][COLOR="77656"]Avenged you really need to stop complaining. Jake isn't always right ya know? So don't go off about how everything he says MUST be a fact, sometimes people are wrong so stop complaining when he's right.

And Jake, at least Arch Enemy is metal, so there really isn't anything to pout over.
Anyways, I don't know why people think Flyleaf is metal. They are less metal than my left nut. Flyleaf is like weak tin, more or less. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[B]BEHOLD ME POUT WITH STRENGTH AND HONOR![/B]

Actually, you're mistaken. I am, in fact, always right.

And I know Arch Enemy is metal, but they're the only band that gets mentioned when people start talking female metal vocalists, so I wanted to have a discussion about female fronted metal bands that are actually interesting (because the Arch Enemy blabbing gets boring very fast and there are far better women in metal).

And as awesome as it is that half this page is devoted to an argument over whether or not I'm always right (which, quite obviously, I am), why don't we actually discuss the topic at hand?

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="77656"]Good point. When the female vocalist thing comes up, it's always Arch Enemy. And Jake, pouted with [B]MANLINESS![/B] So points for that.

If you're always right than what's 2+2? Everyone knows it's fish.

[B]BACK TO THE METAL![/B]
I don't know why but the vocals in Dethklok are enjoyable. I also like the snging in Hatredcopter with Pickles [spoiler]He's a fictional character from Metalocalypse[/spoielr] However I doubt you can take off soemone's face with any type of copter. >_> My friend always does that check thing during Murmaider. When The lyrics knives/check come up he has to act it out.

Another good Dethklok song is Duncan Hills Cofee Jingle, sadly I don't have the deluxe addition. My nickname is John Twinkletits, it's from the back of the Dethalbum's lyric booklet. And I call my friend Mashed PatatoJohnson.

Today I saw a metalhead with a Lamb of God shirt. >_>[/COLOR]

[Panache]

Exhumed is suppose to be death metal right? Then why does their lead singer sound so black metal like? Maybe I don't listen to enough black and death metal but from the black metal bands I have heard the fellas from Exhumed sound a lot like them. But then again I could be wrong. Actually I am most likely wrong.

@[B]Jake[/B]-Gunslinger started it. I was right in the first place. All I was trying to do was settle things with kam and he jumped in.

[Jakehammaren]

Exhumed is Death/Grind (one of the only grind bands that's actually good). He may remind you of a black metal vocalist because he uses a high pitched shriek instead of a gutteral growl half the time (the latter of which is a staple of black metal vocal technique).

Hopefully you realize that that one vocal technique is where similarities between Exhumed and black metal end.

[B]METAL BANDS WITH FEMALE VOCALISTS! FOR THOR'S SAKE, PEOPLE![/B]

[Goodbye, Face]

[font=arial][size=1]Well, if it's for my good ol' buddy, Thor...

[b]Julie Christmas[/b] is in a kinda-metal band, Battle of Mice (as well as some other non-metal bands). She has a really mouse-y voice with which she sings and violently shrieks. The contrast between the two is startling and it makes her an extremely powerful vocalist because of the emotions that she is able to convey that other vocalists simply can't. ([url]http://www.myspace.com/battleofmice[/url])

[b]Laura Pleasants[/b] is in the half metal/half punk mixture that is Kylesa. She's a wicked guitarist and pretty damn hot, too. You metal dudes will probably like some of their songs but not all of them. ([url]http://www.myspace.com/kylesa[/url])

Sorry, that's the best I've got.[/font][/size]

[Jakehammaren]

[quote name='Goodbye, Face'][font=arial][size=1]Well, if it's for my good ol' buddy, Thor...

[b]Julie Christmas[/b] is in a kinda-metal band, Battle of Mice (as well as some other non-metal bands). She has a really mouse-y voice with which she sings and violently shrieks. The contrast between the two is startling and it makes her an extremely powerful vocalist because of the emotions that she is able to convey that other vocalists simply can't. ([url]http://www.myspace.com/battleofmice[/url])

[b]Laura Pleasants[/b] is in the half metal/half punk mixture that is Kylesa. She's a wicked guitarist and pretty damn hot, too. You metal dudes will probably like some of their songs but not all of them. ([url]http://www.myspace.com/kylesa[/url])

Sorry, that's the best I've got.[/font][/size][/QUOTE]

Battle of Mice, while good stuff, is not metal. Discuss elsewhere.

Kylesa is actually a sludge metal band, and an interesting one at that. I'm down. :p

Okay, since no-one seems to be able to offer any imput, I'll start off. Go actually listen to some of these so we can discuss.

[B]Arkona[/B] - One of the best folk metal bands of all time, fronted by the lovely Masha Arhipova. They play folk metal of the Slavic persuasion (the best of their class, I think), and holy ****, it's catchy. Masha's vocals are very unique and very awesome. She's got a very distinct and well-controlled clean vocal that is layered into beautiful harmonies, and her harsh vocals are nothing to be scoffed at. Arkona is highly, highly recommended. ([url]www.myspace.com/arkonarussia[/url])

[B]Battlelore[/B] - This band has the nerdiest stage getup of all time. No joke. Do a google image search and laugh. But it doesn't matter at all, because they play some killer Tolkien-inspired metal that draws from all sorts of metal. It's very diverse, but there is one common thread between their songs - Battlelore is EPIC. Their latest album, "Evernight" is absolutely phenomenal. Great songwriting, catchy melodies and choruses, and Kaisa's voice is one of the most beautiful in all of metal. Definitely a band to check out. ([url]http://youtube.com/watch?v=pBzZLewtLAA[/url])

[B]Darkestrah[/B] - "Epos", their latest one track MCD featuring a song that clocks in at a half-hour, is black metal done EXACTLY how black metal should be done. Find this song (also titled Epos), listen to it, and revel in it's sorrowful, prideful, mysterious, triumphant, epic glory. Every single riff across it's length is absolute black metal art. Perfect. Oh, and the vocalist has one of the nastiest female harsh vocals of all time. Actually, she has one of the best black metal shrieks I've ever heard. Not a band to miss if you enjoy black metal.

[Billy Shears]

[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"][B]Light This City[/B]. They played a show with [B]So Many Dynamos[/B] and [B]The Number Tweleve Looks Like You[/B], and they are basically a rip off of [B]Arch Enemy [/B]but the singer is kind of cute. She wasn't a good vocalist though. The screams were to inconsistant and the lows sounded too forced.

Both LTC and Arch Enemy are pretty terrible in my eyes. Alas though, the redeeming factor for Arch Enemy is Michael Ammott (sp?). Total badass. He sort of makes up for it.

Embarrising fact: It really sucked is when I saw that show. My friends girlfriend was heckling them, and it made me want to kill her. She was hurling insults one by one, and I wanted the goddamn thing to end. After the show, we saw the singer go up to her and have some girl-on-girl-wipe-my-sweat-on-your-face action. My friends girlfriend didn't say a word the rest of the night.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Nomurah!]

[quote name='Kam']Where in that post did jake say groove metal sucks? He didn't. He said he can't stand it. That's fine. He also had reasons for that statement that he was able to relate to the music and the genre as a whole for why he disliked it.

Your only reason is 'cookie monster vocals.' That has been a derogatory phrase to describe death metal vocals since the beginning. One used primarily by people who don't know anything about the music itself.

I do happen to enjoy Dying Fetus' vocal technique and arrangement. And I don't find any similarities with the cookie monster and their vocals, as the cookie monster's voice is talked out. Dying Fetus(and most death metal bands with guttural vocals) use a technique to create their vocals. If you want vocals in a metal band actually similar to the cookie monster, try Dethklok; as Brendan Small does a more similar talking style.

My point isn't that you dislike them. That's fine. My point is that you disrespect the musicians by saying that they suck, without giving any legitimate reason for why they do. 'Cookie monster vocals' makes you look like every mainstream retard who has ever hated on death metal, as that is about as deep as they listen to the music. And it isn't for you to say 'if that's the way death metal vocals are supposed to sound, then that's a genre of music that shouldn't have vocals.' People like you are the reason that extreme metal evolved. To be seperate from people unwilling to dive into something they don't understand, and learn to appreciate(and maybe enjoy) its finer points.

You also highlighted Jake's criticism of metalcore. On this point, he and I are of a like-mind. Metalcore, on the whole, does suck. Why? It's a perversion of everything extreme metal, and heavy metal at large, stands for. That is seperation, originality, musicianship, and fidelity to all the aforementioned ends. [i]Most[/i] metalcore is geared toward the mainstream audience, very unoriginal, very short on musical talent, and it promotes the idea of conforming for the sake of popularity.

Now, I don't want to attack you. Your musical interests are not that far removed from mine a few years ago, nor is your response to my criticism of you. All that I'm asking is that you not so bluntly attack something you're not a part of. [i]Come up with a legitimate defense of what you say.[/i] And 'cookie monster vocals' are [i]not[/i] a legitimate defense for why a death metal band sucks.

-Justin[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"][COLOR="HotPink"]Dying Fetus sounds like my kind of band. :]

Anyway... I don't listen to alot of bands with female singers (since all I can find are bands like Otep, Arch Enemy, and Kittie and abunch of hard-rock bands) But lately I've been really interested in the Deathcore and Death Metal scene.

Cannibal Corpse got old after a while. After hearing like...three albums that sound so similiar, I decided to move on with my life, but that's not to say that they're not good.

Job For A Cowboy... ZOMG, have I heard too much about this band...I know what they sound like...I just havn't been..interested enough in them.. I'd say they're deathcore. I promised myself I would actually sit down and listen to a few of their songs in full, but I've been too lazy.


Question. Who the hell said Flyleaf was a metal band? XD I've never heard that one before...

Well. I did. But the guy also thought Disturbed was a metal band, along with AC/DC xD.

Anyway. Back on subject. Deathcore. And on subject also, Sludge metal. Discuss?[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="77656"]Oh yeah, people have mistooken Flyleaf for a metal band. But they were either misinformed or they didn't know jack-squat about metal and thought "she screams. She R da metal."

[B]Job for A Cowboy[/B] - Pretty good actually, just heard a song a while ago after I woke up from a nap. They played well, and it woke me up completely. And the vocals were done well IMO.[/COLOR]

[Goodbye, Face]

[font=arial][size=1]I'm interested in what you would consider Battle of Mice, Jake. They sound like a slower and more crushing Jesu but with a girl on the mic. Also, I don't know if you heard their whole cd. The last half of it is BRUTAL. It gets really intense at some points. I understand that not every bit of Battle is metal, but it's definitely in there.[/font][/size]

[Jakehammaren]

Oh, wait, I was wrong. I think I was confused as to which band we were talking about. Battle of Mice is a mixture of sludge metal, doom metal, and post-rock. So yeah, good call and good addition to the discussion.

As for those of you discussing Job For a Cowboy, they started out as a stupid Myspace-Grindcore band, but their debut full-length debut, Genesis, saw them transform into a straight-up death metal band (and a very, very average one at that). And talk about mallcore...

[Nomurah!]

[quote name='Jakehammaren']Oh, wait, I was wrong. I think I was confused as to which band we were talking about. Battle of Mice is a mixture of sludge metal, doom metal, and post-rock. So yeah, good call and good addition to the discussion.

As for those of you discussing Job For a Cowboy, they started out as a stupid Myspace-Grindcore band, but their debut full-length debut, Genesis, saw them transform into a straight-up death metal band (and a very, very average one at that). And talk about mallcore...[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"][COLOR="HotPink"]Ah, so are you saying they're not worth checking out? :] Anyway, I heard my first Battle of Mice song today...and wow. :] Though the song did get a little boring after a while without any fast tempos, I liked it alot. Julie has a nice voice...she can change it up a bit unlike alot of female singers. She has the mousey voice, the creepy voice, the yells, etc. Tis quite nice. I really liked the drummer's bit in the song, and the guitarists sound really nice on the lighter riffs in the song. I also enjoyed the samples towards the end of the song, I'm always a sucker for samples..

By the way, the name of the song was "At The Base of The Giant's Throat" (Thanks Kevin.)[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[Justin]

Job For a Cowboy's only value is in that they have opened wide the doors for kids wth potential to get into music of more substance. But, [i]Genesis[/i] is just a mediocre record, as far as straight brutal death metal goes. just as [i]Doom[/i] was mediocre in terms of deathcore.

Eh, the only female vocalists whom I respect equally for their vocal quality and their feminine-ness are Kaisa Jouhki of Battlelore, the operatic vocalist of Sletchvalk, Mariangela Demurtas of Tristania, and Tarja Turunen, formerly of Nightwish.

No one is arguing Arch Enemy's metalness. Jake simply did not want the conversation reduced to just talking about Angela Gassow.

On Light This City, they are less like Arch Enemy than they are At the Gates. And while I do find Laura Nichol's high end to be just fine, her lower end does sound very forced at times. On the whole, Light This City is a prime example of what Jake said earlier about melodic death metal.

I talked to a guy the other day who told me he didn't care for Arch Enemy. When i asked him why, he said he couldn't stand females in bands. He's not metal.

-Justin

[Jakehammaren]

[B]@ Kam[/B], the new Nightwish vocalist is far better than Tarja ever was. Just sayin'.

And again, I'd suggest checking out Arkona. ([url]www.myspace.com/arkonarussia[/url]) Check out the songs [I]Vo Slavu Velikim[/I] (be sure to listen to the point where the vocals come in) and [I]Ot Serdca k Nebu[/I]. Her voice is very unique and awesome, and the band plays an entirely addictive blend of metal and Slavic folk music. Highy, highly, highly recommended. Kam, I'm positive you'll add her to your list of worthy female vocalists after giving them a listen.

Visual proof as to why she is awesome:

[IMG]http://a984.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/117/l_b3b23dce1ef75b114710a08df5c2ab8f.jpg[/IMG]

[Justin]

Yep, you'd be right. She's also got one of the best tones in extreme vocals I've ever heard from a female.

That said, let's talk about extreme voacl technique. How, for those of us so endowed, can you best describe how you produce the Sound of the Beast?

I learned from the place I was first exposed: post-2002 metal/deathcore. This leads to the majority of my vocal style being produced by simple throat distortion. That is to say, most of my vocals are made in the throat, and not a product of volume or strain on my chords.

This, I deduce, is the easiest and best way to achieve the most desired tones and styles. It started for me with a standard metalcore mid-range. Not death metal mid range, as in Opeth or Amon Amarth, mind you; metalcore. Think of Still Remains or It Dies Today.

From that point, as other things were opened up to me, I learned to expressed the wet, choking higher end of Zao. And from there, it was a straight shot to the piercing demon sound of Trevor Strnad of the Black Dahlia Murder.

It was at this point that I began my transition into true heavy metal. Amon Amarth's tone first caught my attention, and I found that it was easily achieved. Then Carcass, which I found was not all that removed from the sound of mid-career Zao I had already mastered. I'm still trying to really develope that guttural rumble of my classic death metal acts such as Nile and Cannibal Corpse. And a truer black metal rasp is simple.

Now, I'm not that lady that came up with "The Zen of Screaming" or anything. But I can tell you all this, the best way I know how to learn is to listen to bands you enjoy. Now, recognize that it isn't about being loud, it's about distorting your voice. Then, you just have to work with it.

Contributions?

-Justin

[Panache]

I have a question...is industrial metal a sub genre or Metal or Industrial music?

[Jakehammaren]

Industrial. Now, industrial can be combined with rock and metal, but Industrial is it's own genre. For example, Rammstein is Industrial and Rock ("Industrial Rock"), but Industrial is not a form of Rock music. Make sense?

Kam, I'll respond when I have more time.

[Claire]

[FONT="Arial"]I haven't listened to any of Nightwish's new stuff. I was obsessed with them in the eighth grade, but even then I made fun of them all the time and now I can't take them seriously. See [U][URL="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v630/ShikyoKasu/?action=view¤t=mpacspec2-2.jpg"]this comic.[/URL][/U]

And also this: [URL="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/ShikyoKasu/nightwishcomic1.jpg"]page 1[/URL], [URL="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/ShikyoKasu/nightwishcomic2.jpg"]page 2[/URL]

ANYWAY.

Last night I saw Trans-Siberian Orchestra for the third year in a row, and it just keeps getting better. They didn't mention their upcoming album this year, which is strange. In the past they've always said it was coming out "soon," only to go a whole year without releasing it.

I LOVE their version of Carmina Burana, which is the main reason I want Nightcastle. Some people were walking around with Nightcastle posters after the show, but that's the only mention made of it.

One of the best things that happened was that their violin goddess, Anna Phoebe, remembered me from last year's concert. <3333[/FONT]

[Nomurah!]

[SIZE="1"][COLOR="HotPink"]Wait...I thought Tarja and the new singer were working together on their newest album? Ah well, the new one has better melody with the band, and the band is no longer slaves of zeh Tarja.

..Wait..
..
..

I ACTUALLY KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT A METAL BAND!(historic event?)[/COLOR][/SIZE]