Downloading music

[2010DigitalBoy]

[quote name='Aaryanna'][COLOR="goldenrod"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Sorry, but you're wrong. There are companies out there that put songs up for people to listen to that are legit. [URL="http://www.youtube.com/user/warnerbrosrecords"][U]Warner Bros. Records[/U][/URL] They're the official channel for Warner Bros., Reprise, Sire, Warner Nashville, and Nonesuch Records. So saying everything on youtube is uploaded illegally is incorrect. Just thought I'd point that out. :p[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]>_> I was kind of hoping no one would bring that up. [/COLOR]

[SunfallE]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"][quote name='Allamorph'][FONT=Arial]Don't ever confuse "right" with "desire".[/FONT][/QUOTE]Honestly, this covers the entire debate right here. Just as I agree with the stance of hey, I know it's wrong and yet I still do it. Not that what one is doing is right, but rather like A_M was saying, there's no stupid justification going along with it.

In the end, over the years, and by years I do literally mean more than a decade, I've probably downloaded about a total of ten songs. Mainly because they were something that's hard to find. Even with searching places like E-bay for a used copy. Some of them I still hunt for a legit used copy since I like having my own copy.

The rest of the time I'll listen to stuff at say youtube or I'll hear it on the radio or in a movie and if I really like it... I simply buy it. In fact I just recently got introduced to a new band that Rach learned about from Jakehammaren. Upon listening to it at youtube I've decided to purchase it and I ordered it yesterday no less. I'll still listen to it on youtube while I wait for it to arrive though. XP But in the end, I'd much rather get a professional copy.

I do think the idea that you can't make a copy for your own personal use is just stupid and greedy on the company's part. I just can't see it any other way. I like making mix cd's with my favorite songs to use in my player in my car when I travel and I did the same when I was driving a semi.

It's not a safety issue now, but when I was driving a semi? The last thing I needed to be doing is messing with switching disks around just for a single song. Putting things together in a single disk was far more convenient and accessible for me. And I'd argue that to anyone who would attempt to tell me it's illegal when every song on those disks came from legal copies that I paid for myself.

Especially since that's part of the training to drive an 18 wheeler, setting things up in the best possible manner to avoid things that could cause a wreck.

Anyway, it's obvious that the system needs some changes but I really don't see how making downloading without paying the artist would make it better. Perhaps in the immediate sense of people getting things for free, but in the end, the artists and the music companies are not obligated to entertain us for free. They do have a right to make a living too. XP[/FONT][/COLOR]

[The Spectacular Professor]

Alright, lets just put it this way: we won't be worrying about this too much anymore.

[URL="http://www.spiralfrog.com"]http://www.spiralfrog.com[/URL]

Here, for your pleasure and convenience, is a website where you can legally download music free. The industry gets money via advertising. There's not much there now, but it's a pretty snazzy idea and is bound to catch on sooner or later.

[Allamorph]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR="#004a6f"']Looks like I missed one. At first, I had all "I"s in the sentence, and then, I switched to "you"'s.[/COLOR][/quote]
[FONT=Arial]That's what I figured. (^_^)

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR="#004a6f"']And in reply to your post, I would like to point out that I already acknowledged what the law is, but I suggested that it be changed.[/COLOR][/quote]
Yes, but you didn't give any concrete reasoning for it. All you said was "you should be able to", and really you shouldn't.

Like I said, the law protects the artists' rights, which supersede your own...whatever rights you have regarding the situation, which aren't any except what the artists say you can have.

Now, I [I]have[/I] participated in music sharing from both sides, and this is where I get my exposure to different genres from. I still prefer the authentic recording, though, both because I know the mix and volume levels will be correct (as opposed to the uncertainty of someone else's burning procedures), in addition to whatever scratches or gouges may have been on their CD, and even if it my burned copy is more than one generation away from the original; and because I get actual information about the individual songs, the album, and the band. I dislike online lyric databases because I have yet to find one that is one-hundred percent accurate. (Also, your CD library doesn't get clogged up with tacky Memorex. :p)[/FONT]

[Goodbye, Face]

[font=arial][size=1]Okay, my two cents.

I don't listen to popular music. You know this. I'd say about half of the bands I listen to are either battling the fact that they cannot afford to keep pressing records so their stuff doesn't go out of print, or aren't on a label. A lot of these bands, such as So Many Dynamos, are fans of P2P. I was talking to this particular band about it, and they are personally uploading their album to these places for people to "steal," finding that it increases turnouts for their shows, and therefore more record and shirt sales. Most of the bands I've talked to agree with this.

If they have labels, it's usually different though. The label is (supposed!) to promote the band so that they can make money from the band's success. In this respect, downloading music from that band can only negatively affect them. They aren't supposed to need the advertising factor of the downloads, and not everyone who downloads buys a cd afterwards.

Another kind of validating factor that applies to me is that a lot of the bands I listen to, such as Pageninetynine, are long gone, and so are hard copies of most of their records. You can either pay some ridiculous price on eBay for it (that the artist or the label will never see!) or download it. See also: Dreamcast games (the good ones).

But I mean, I still feel extremely guilty for not having a hard copy of every album I truly love.

&also, OiNK got shut down today, which is extremely relevant to this discussion.[/font][/size]

[Billy Shears]

[quote name='Goodbye, Face'][font=arial][size=1]Okay, my two cents.

I don't listen to popular music. You know this. I'd say about half of the bands I listen to are either battling the fact that they cannot afford to keep pressing records so their stuff doesn't go out of print, or aren't on a label. A lot of these bands, such as So Many Dynamos, are fans of P2P. I was talking to this particular band about it, and they are personally uploading their album to these places for people to "steal," finding that it increases turnouts for their shows, and therefore more record and shirt sales. Most of the bands I've talked to agree with this.

If they have labels, it's usually different though. The label is (supposed!) to promote the band so that they can make money from the band's success. In this respect, downloading music from that band can only negatively affect them. They aren't supposed to need the advertising factor of the downloads, and not everyone who downloads buys a cd afterwards.

But I mean, I still feel extremely guilty for not having a hard copy of every album I truly love.

[/font][/size][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]I have to agree with you, seeing as half of my iTunes are things my friends have downloaded and no one knows about. Lesser known bands that I've talked to are ok with downloading/burning CD's among people too. The guys in Philly's [B]Pattern Is Movement[/B] told us personally, "just buy one copy and burn it among you guys, just as long as you like it, we don't give a ****."

Little rambling sidenote: everyone would love to make money off of their intellectual property, but if you are on an indie label and you [I]aren't[/I] making music for the sake of people hearing it, you have no point being on an indie label. :animeknow I'm glad musicians agree with downloading things, because that is another solidified fan.

Since these physical copies of records are hard to obtain, most people are left with two things: A) several people without credit cards and such (like me!) can't purchase from an online record store, so our resort is B) wait til they swing by on tour and buy a copy from them directly (I did that with [B]So Many Dynamos [/B]to be exact, Kevin. Saw a show, downloaded [I]Flashlights[/I], bought a copy when I saw them again).

If it is a band that I like and I know I can stroll into Best Buy and pick up a copy of their latest record, of course I will do it. One more great album for the collection, plus the liner notes. But if I have to wait another year for the ****ers to hit up Chi-Town, I'm downloading it first, buy later. Almost all people who go to local shows do that.

EDIT: Imports. Imports are almost impossible to get too, unless you want a day of searching every local record store.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Allamorph]

[quote name='Billy Shears][COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]The guys in Philly's [B]Pattern Is Movement[/B] told us personally, "just buy one copy and burn it among you guys, just as long as you like it, we don't give a ****."[/SIZE'][/COLOR][/quote]
[FONT=Arial]This is an excellent point because it showcases a group of artists saying "Yes, you can do whatever". They aren't worried about their rights to the music in the respect of the thread's topic, or of ripping and burning, which is closely related.

Other artists won't feel the same way, which is why we have these laws.[/FONT]

[The Spectacular Professor]

Well, I just discovered a caviat of Spiralfrog. All the files are WMA. EVERYBODY uses iTunes, even people who don't have an iPod! What's their beef?

[Goodbye, Face]

[font=arial][size=1]Just to be in agreement with a point I forgot to mention, at almost every show I've ever been to, at least one band gets up to play and tells us that we can just download their cd and give it to our friends. Circa Survive is on a pretty good label and they still do this. Their singer threw copies of Juturna out into the audience last time I saw them, and they were also selling them for $3 in the back, which was juuuust over the amount that they spend per cd to make them.

And Aceburner: I hate iPods and iTunes, therefore I don't use either. So not EVERYBODY, even with caps. :p[/font][/size]

[Doublehex]

[quote name='Allamorph'][FONT=Arial]This is an excellent point because it showcases a group of artists saying "Yes, you can do whatever". They aren't worried about their rights to the music in the respect of the thread's topic, or of ripping and burning, which is closely related.

Other artists won't feel the same way, which is why we have these laws.[/FONT][/QUOTE]

Actually, its more along the lines of rich people in expensive suites not feeling the same way. But, same thing for us normal folk, I suppose.

[The Spectacular Professor]

[quote name='Goodbye, Face'][font=arial][size=1]And Aceburner: I hate iPods and iTunes, therefore I don't use either. So not EVERYBODY, even with caps. :p[/font][/size][/QUOTE]

Fine. All the [U]cool[/U] people then.:smirk:

Well, all I can say about the matter is that sometimes you just can't win. We need to stop stealing, but at the same time the RIAA needs to stop the policy of decapitation for burning a CD. The way I see it, we're just provoking each other. Soon, the switchblades will be out (or maybe I just live in the wrong side of town and an becoming ultra-paranoid.)

[Red]

[quote name='Sojio']You guys might be interested to know that downloading isn't illegal so long as you are able to prove that it is for educational reasons.

I recently finished an arts management and copyright course at my local music academy and while we were doing the copyright section the topic of downloading music came up.

Our lecturer told us the story of how an American college student downloaded 300 GB of music but proved to the court that he was downloading it for a study into music and society or something along those lines.
[/QUOTE]

No, it's still illegal. There are specific provisions in the law that allow for (some) educational use of copyrighted material.

Since I can't find anything online about this supposed case I can't prove your lecturer right or wrong but it still sounds like you've been told a few porkies. 300GB is a phenomenal amount of music files: at a high average of 5MB per song we're still talking 60,000 tracks. It would be pretty tough to successfully argue that you downloaded that many files for educational purposes; especially considering the fact that it would most likely take weeks of continuous listening to get through all of it.

As for myself, I download a ton of music and buy it later; I'd have to wait months to hear what music I like if I waited until I could afford it.

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]I see no reason for me to have to try and find a way to buy music of bands in the style I like off the internet, then have it shipped to me, when I don't even know if I will like the music on there. If I can't listen to whats on there, I'm not going to buy the cd, especially in the case I mentioned above.

There has been a reasonable amount of music that I have downloaded and then bought the cd at a later date, if I've managed to find a copy in australia. There is also a lot I haven't because either a) it isn't really good by my standards, or good enough to pay $20-30 for, or b) it's out of print or ridiculously expensive because it's out of print, or c) I just don't.

There was no chance of me buying the cd without listening to it. If I do download it then I might buy it at a later date.

Thats my view.[/size]