The Extreme/Heavy Music That Isn't Metal Thread!

[Panache]

[quote name='Goodbye, Face'][font=arial][size=1]Woah, woah, WOAH.

I haven't heard too much Curl Up and Die, they're terrible, but I believe you're right in calling them metalcore.

The Locust is a mixture of Speed Punk and Grindcore. I have no idea how you can hear The Locust's music and think anything even vaguely metal-related.

And... Mudvayne? Metalcore?! WHAT?!

For a good idea of what metalcore is, check out Botch. They do it and they do it RIGHT.

For a good idea of Mathcore, there can only be one: The Dillinger Escape Plan. They're all over this thread, it's really funny. In fact their whole new album is up on their myspace right now.

Mathcore bands that are also of note are The Number Twelve Looks Like You and Daughters. Neither of those are totally mathcore though and borrow ideas from some other genres, but mathcore is a vague genre anyway.[/font][/size][/QUOTE]

Curl up and die is funny. The locust I really don't like I threw them in for the sake of argument. And since Mudvayne said they are mathcore which his a sub genre of metal core(I think?) I figured it would be safe to say they are metalcore..is that a no then? They are still great though...

I checked out dillinger...they were kind of meh to me. Maybe I will re valuate them.

right now I am listening to carcass. I haven't listened to much grindcore before now but these guys seems promising. I might check out more grindcore.

[Goodbye, Face]

[font=arial][size=1]It doesn't matter if you like The Locust or not. There's so many better examples (anything would be better, pretty much) to use and you picked them. Also, you'll find that it does not matter what a band says they play, just like you, musicians are horribly disillusioned as to what genre they play. They might set out to play mathcore, but that is NOT what comes out of their amps, I'm sorry.

I'm getting sick of this.

"I like this band so they must be (metal / whatever genre I like the name of at the time)."

"I hate this band, so they must be (emo / nu-metal)."[/font][/size]

EDIT:

OH WAIT

[quote]I really enjoy [...] the locust [...] .[/quote]

[quote]The locust I really don't like I threw them in for the sake of argument.[/quote]

EXPLAIN THIS.

[Panache]

[quote name='Goodbye, Face'][font=arial][size=1]It doesn't matter if you like The Locust or not. There's so many better examples (anything would be better, pretty much) to use and you picked them. Also, you'll find that it does not matter what a band says they play, just like you, musicians are horribly disillusioned as to what genre they play. They might set out to play mathcore, but that is NOT what comes out of their amps, I'm sorry.

I'm getting sick of this.

"I like this band so they must be (metal / whatever genre I like the name of at the time)."

"I hate this band, so they must be (emo / nu-metal)."[/font][/size][/QUOTE]

Sorry...I was just going by the band. I figured that was a reliable source. And where was I doing that?

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="77656"]Dude I read wiki, and that's where I found this...

[quote name='Wikipedia']Mathcore (also known as technical metalcore, technical hardcore, and math metal) is a style of metalcore recognized for a high level of technical musicianship. [/quote]

Dude, you just quoted Wikipedia. Don't go on wiki, anyone can edit that ****. So if chances are someone without any knowledge of the genre could have edited it. Listen to Jake, DON'T WIKI! Just thought I'd point that out. I checked wiki because I had the feeling that's where you got the info. Oh, the quote about Mudvayne & Alt Metal is also from Wiki.

And they are good, however, I just don't like the way he screams. They have good songs like World so Cold, which is my fav Mudvayne song. MY friend LOVES Mudvayne, and he loves World so Cold. His voice is so much better when he just sings, I think Mudvayne would be better wihtout the screaming and if they didn't scream so much.

Just like A7X, they are really good. Waking the Fallen was a great CD, but the screaming sucked. The songs that didn't have a lot of screams shone on the album. And in City of Evil where there was only a few screams, they made a great album. I like M. Shadows voice, but he shouldn't scream. [/COLOR]

[Panache]

[quote name='Gunslinger'][COLOR="77656"]Dude I read wiki, and that's where I found this...



Dude, you just quoted Wikipedia. Don't go on wiki, anyone can edit that ****. So if chances are someone without any knowledge of the genre could have edited it. Listen to Jake, DON'T WIKI! Just thought I'd point that out. I checked wiki because I had the feeling that's where you got the info.

[/COLOR][/QUOTE]


A. Jake didn't put his 2 cents in on the subject.

B. Since when is Jake the God of all things musical?

So since people can edit wikipedia I should go with ONE GUYS opinion(no matter how informed it may be) instead? He may be a respected member but we don't need to kiss hiss *** at every goddamn turn... /end rant


P.S I have nothing against you Jake and you are right most of the time but I don't like the mentality of you>everything else.

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="77656"]Dude, for your A comment, I was talking about other times. He's said wiki is bad for msuic before, I sincerly hope you were listening before. That's why I don't use Wiki for bands. Plus, he knows a lot more than you and I, that's for sure. Dude, as for number 2, we don't think he's the god of everything musical. Give him stuff on Country music, he might just WTF. We don't think he's a god, he's just well informed. Definitly more informed than you.

Holy Christ, I see why I got annoying now. Dude just give to up. You have a big Jake problem and that's that. You keep rambing about it, and it's making people mad, and they're getting sick of it. I know I am. I know now how stupid I was, and now I see what a moron I am.

[QUOTE]"I like this band so they must be (metal / whatever genre I like the name of at the time)."[/QUOTE]
It's like saying I'm white but I love my black girlfriend so she must be white too.[/COLOR]

[Goodbye, Face]

[font=arial][size=1]Sorry that Jake has an actual life (that may or may not involve pillaging small towns and raping their women) and cannot be there 24/7 to respond to every query you have about metal music.

No, you shouldn't kiss his ***. He isn't some amazing god of musical knowledge. What he is (is) someone who actually takes the time to study what makes his music good to him. He makes sure he knows what he's talking about before he posts anything, and that's an example that you of all people should follow.

And check out the edit I made in my last post, I'm excited to see what response you have for it.[/font][/size]


EDIT @ Gunslinger:

[img]http://uberkuul.files.wordpress.com/2006/06/buddy%20christ%20from%20dogma.jpg[/img]

[Panache]

[QUOTE]You have a big Jake problem and that's that. You keep rambing about it, and it's making people mad, and they're getting sick of it. I know I am. I know now how stupid I was, and now I see what a moron I am. [/QUOTE]You brought him up not me. And I don't think that wikipedia is always wrong about this sort of thing. I mean were talking about music here not science or math. You can't prove that whatever the hell band is whatever the hell genre because some other guy made up the name and decided what it would sound like. Also I said I have no problem with the guy. Did you read my post at all?

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="77656"]Thank you Face, I appreciate that.

Avenged, I'm not going to reply for one reason, we need our good conversation back.

Has anyone heard the new solo album by Serj Tankian yet? It's a pretty decent album. Nothing too amazing, but it has it's perks. Lyrically, It's great. The meaning behind some songs, such as Empty walls, gve you soem insight on serj's thoughts. Pus, it's fun to interprete the meanings for yourself, such as the song Honking Antelope. I also love Serj Tankian's voice, he makes the songs much more fun than some others could ever do.

[spoiler]He looks like my father in some ways. The nose for one. >_<[/spoiler][/COLOR]

[Panache]

[QUOTE]And for the sake of the thread, we might just as well avert the topic to something else so Avenged will stop his rambling. >_> [/QUOTE]Riiiight my rambling. Whatever if your gonna start and argument and punk out of it I don't care.

What's the album called? The new one by Serj?

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="77656"]It's called Elect the Dead. Just for kicks I'm going to post something from the back of the book.The bolded words are track titles.

[quote name='From the back of the lyric booklet]The [B]Empty Walls [/B]of [B]The Unthinking Majority[/B] hide [B]Money [/B]for the illusive afterlife and do not [B]Feed Us[/B] instead, thereby Saving Us from the conclusive environmental theory that the Sky is Over. The [B]Baby[/B] is run over by the careless [B]Honking Antelope [/B]who, quoteing from the book of [B]Lie Lie Lie,[/B] cries [B]Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition[/B]. The ground rumbles and out flies [B]Beethoven't ****[/B] screaming [B]Elect the Dead[/B']![/quote]

As for the music, it has some foreign sounds . Plus it has some female vocals in the backround. THe song The Unthinking Majorite features Alladin like music, sort of like a snake charmer's flute. The lyrics "I believe that you're wrong, insinuating they hold the bomb. Clearing the way for the oil brigade, Clearing the way for the oil brigade" stand out most in the track to me.

If I were you I'd just find someone who has the album and listen to it, or buy it.[/COLOR]

[Panache]

Well System of a Down got me into Rock period. I used to be a Hip hop head(and in some ways I still am). they had a sound that was just strange enough to get me interested. So I am gonna pick this up no matter what.

[Ravenstorture]

[FONT="Garamond"][COLOR="DarkGreen"]
Man, the pretention was so thick in the air I couldn't find my keyboard for a minute, but it seems to have blown up in everyone's face.

I am involved in two other forums on the 'net and both of these are entirely music scene forums. On there people KNOW not to get involved in genre wars, the lines are too blurred and people end up thinking their opinions are more than just their own opinions. ;)

I believe Goodbye, Face mentioned before that "musicians are horribly disillusioned as to what genre they play." (not sure what definition of disillusioned you are using here) but I'd say rather that they usually don't really care what genre they fit into, because it doesn't matter.

The music I write (which I won't comment on further, because it doesn't class as "extreme") does not fit into any genre, and I find myself not giving a damn.
[/COLOR][/FONT]

[quote name='Mr. Maul'][SIZE=1][COLOR=DimGray]What a laughable question.
[/COLOR][/SIZE][/QUOTE]

[FONT="Garamond"][COLOR="DarkGreen"]
Are you laughing at me there, Mr Maul? It is a valid question.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[Panache]

I should have settled the matter via pm. It's my fault. I regret hijacking the thread in the first place. I mean what are we arguing about anyway? Who cares?

Anyway I listened to Serje's two songs he has on his myspace. I am setting expectations to high.

[Ravenstorture]

[FONT="Garamond"][COLOR="DarkGreen"]
My housemate bought Serj's album, i've not listened too carefully but it sounds good. I do love SOAD. Or did. It's been a while.

Would someone please tell me wtf is mathcore? I've not heard of it.

Also I'd like to bring up society's overuse of the suffix 'core' - I think it's being thrown around too much these days, and has lost its substance.
[/COLOR][/FONT]

[Goodbye, Face]

[font=arial][size=1]In short, mathcore is hardcore music with changing time signatures. Instead of playing in 4/4, they play silly things like 7/4, 13/8, etc. (EDIT: I had 14/8 here, lol)

Math rock is far more advanced and technical, bands like Dillinger (who are mentioned all over if you've read the rest of the thread) tend to just play one note repeated in strange intervals and call it technical. Although I hate them, The Mars Volta is the easiest example of Math Rock out there. It's the same basic concept as mathcore but it goes down easier.

And a lot of these "-core" terms date back into the 80's and probably even earlier. Heavy punk started being called Hardcore Punk, then bands developed into a non-punk Hardcore, metal-inspired Metalcore, etc. I have no idea what Grindcore is supposed to mean, but I know what it is, it sucks but it's good for a headrush from time to time.

And yes, I'm aware that a lot of bands don't care for what genre they play and are just there to play the music. That is good and that is what I personally look for in a band. However, that is apparently not the case with Mudvayne and I didn't want to use extraneous information that what would help develop my point.

And while this is way out of place, I remember you from earlier years, Ravenstorture! I used to be Axel Ignition or something like that.[/font][/size]

[Ravenstorture]

[color="darkgreen"][font="garamond"]That name rings a bell. Hello again. And thanks for answering my question - i've lost touch with many branches of the music tree and suddenly I turn around to find it's a lot bigger than I care to climb these days.

I love metal and I love hardcore anything and I love industrial, so I'm going to go and find some of this funky **** you guys are talking about and look it up.

[url]http://www.myspace.com/xylocainedeadgirl[/url]

There's a band I like. Especially the song Tsar Bomba. I would call it extreme if you turned it up enough, haha.[/font][/color]

[Justin]

[quote name='Avenged666fold'] I mean were talking about music here not science or math. [/QUOTE]

Not trying to argue, just pointing this out: Music is a science. There are exact answers. We may not all have all of them, but what we [i]can[/i] do is research. And wikipedia is not the best source; leastwise for music.

Now, everyone should, as stated, calm down. This forum is not about arguing. It's not about 'punking out'. It's about discussing, and bouncing facts and opinions off each other. If someone offends you, don't take it to heart. It's just the internet.

-Justin

[Panache]

I am using the Encyclopaedia Metallum to avoid future conflicts...

So I was listening to the Liquid Tension Experiment. Yesterday. They are frickin great. Anyone else like them? I was listening to Acid Rain. Their solos are ****ing sex.

[Ravenstorture]

[FONT="Garamond"][COLOR="DarkGreen"]LTE good because it is FAST. I can't stand listening to anything under 170bpm for too long (i'm a raver so I tend to classify everything by the bpm). I just got Cycore Megamix by The Speed Freak on my mp3 player - PURE BLISS! Seems to be about the same speed as LTE.

The Speed Freak calls his genre Cycore, because people don't really like calling it speedcore unless it's even faster (which l think is wank.) Goes under a few other names too, like radium, beagle. Another dude is Hellfish - a cycore/breakcore kinda guy... wicked fun and 200+bpm but kinda impossible to dance to. [/COLOR][/FONT]

[Jakehammaren]

[quote name='Ravenstorture'][FONT=Garamond][COLOR=darkgreen]I am involved in two other forums on the 'net and both of these are entirely music scene forums. On there people KNOW not to get involved in genre wars, the lines are too blurred and people end up thinking their opinions are more than just their own opinions. ;)[/COLOR][/FONT][/quote]
Yeah, those people are a bummer. I don't even have opinions. Only facts that people mistake as opinions.

Oh, and genres do actually matter.

And Kam is right - there are exact answers when it comes to music. Most people are just too lazy to figure it all out.

[Ravenstorture]

[FONT="Garamond"][COLOR="DarkGreen"]Well, I can't argue with someone with 'Pretentious Music Snob' in their title! I'll just sit down and shut up then. [/COLOR][/FONT]

[Jakehammaren]

Man, if everyone had your attitude, the world would be such an awesome place.

[Mr. Maul]

[quote name='Ravenstorture][COLOR=#006400']Are you laughing at me there, Mr Maul? It is a valid question.[/COLOR][/quote]

[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=1][COLOR=dimgray]I wasn't laughing at you, and I was never questioning the validity of your question. I'm just a really big electronica fan as well.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[SIZE=1][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=dimgray]It's a figure of speech, I guess.[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]


[SIZE=1][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=dimgray]Oh, and you never answered my question.[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]

[quote name='Mr. Maul][SIZE=1][COLOR=#696969][B]Ravenstorture[/B], have you per chance heard the song "On The Floor" by [B]DJ Caffeine[/B]? It's not necessarily gabber or hardstyle, but it's a great song, nonetheless. I'd imagine you'd enjoy it.[/COLOR'][/SIZE][/quote]

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="77656"]Oh come on Jake, we know you love to prove members wrong. :p But yeah, Jake is the best member when it comes to understanding music here.

Anyways... tomorrow I plan on buying the new Avenged Sevenfold album [spoiler](don't say anything, you might not like A7X but I do, so don't tell me that they suck cause I just won't listen[/spoiler] & -because DB said so- I'm going to buy Frances the Mute by TMV.

I actually tried to study Metal, but , but I don't other legitimate sites other than Enyclopedia Metallum, and that site jsut doens't load with this ISP I got. It did when I had AOL. >_>[/COLOR]