Gaming Pornography and Video Games

[Inuyasha Fandom]

okay..... is it true the japanese actualy have a sex based video game? I've heard several rumors.... and i want to know if this is true... cuz it sounds iffy to me....

[AzureWolf]

The Japanese? Try "Every Country with a Videogame." Yes, there are a ton of Japanese porn games, just like how there are a bunch of American porn games.

Almost all of the games are for the PC.

[Dagger]

Well, depends on what you're talking about.

There are definitely CG-rendered games that are pretty much 100% sex... haven't played any myself, so I couldn't tell you how the gameplay functions, but I assume it's more about making choices once in a while than button-mashing (as it were).

There are also vast quantities of 18+ visual novels, which are also always PC games. These are 2-D, though, and like the name suggests, it's more like reading a book than playing a regular game. Some kind of Japanese regulation keeps adult material from being released on consoles, so when ero-games get console ports, they're remade as all-ages stories.

~Dagger~

[John]

[quote name='AzureWolf']The Japanese? Try "Every Country with a Videogame." Yes, there are a ton of Japanese porn games, just like how there are a bunch of American porn games.

Almost all of the games are for the PC.[/quote] Yeah, you could look at it as "pretty much every country has sex videogames, including Japan," but I think it'd be more accurate to say, "Japan has pretty much everything relating to sex, including videogames."

[Nerdsy]

[quote name='Inuyasha Fandom']okay..... is it true the japanese actualy have a sex based video game? I've heard several rumors.... and i want to know if this is true... cuz it sounds iffy to me....[/QUOTE]

[color=deeppink]Dude. Custer's Revenge. Most horrific Atari game ever, and it's completely totally western. Can't remember if it was made in the US or Canada, though...[/color]

[Zero Sephiroth]

My friend was telling me about one like that from Japan....called Ega or something?

He said they tried to cover the sexual parts or scenes with shooting stages.

You can guess what its strongest selling point was.

[Gavin]

[quote name='John']Yeah, you could look at it as "pretty much every country has sex videogames, including Japan," but I think it'd be more accurate to say, "Japan has pretty much everything relating to sex, including videogames."[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Quoted for truth.[/SIZE]

[Dagger]

That's misrepresenting it a little, I think. Sex & sexual innuendo come out in different ways in different cultures. Japan has way more ero-based games than western countries (plus stuff like Hard Gay, haha). At the same time, it seems that female pop stars (for instance) are expected to cultivate this absurd virginal image, which is almost the exact opposite of celebrity culture in the US.

~Dagger~

[BlueYoshi]

[color=darkred]Okay, even though Inuyasha Fandom's question has been answered I'm gonna leave this thread open for the discussion of video games and pornography, and I'll also alter the title to make that more clear. Please be mature about this and please, please, please no shocking images.

Play nice kiddies.[/color] ;)

[Panache]

I can't type or move a mouse while I do...what your suppose to do when your looking at porn. So I probably would have trouble with Pornographic video games. Plus pornography is free on the Internet...so what's the point? If I wanna play a video game I'll play a video game. If I wanna play with myself then I can do that two. No need to combine the two activities though....that's just silly in my opinion. But I guess people buy the games so whatever boats your float. I still think they are a novelty at best.

[Dagger]

I think it's safe to say that most visual novel eroge (for instance: Tsukihime, Air, etc.) are story-driven, and that people literally play them for the story. This sounds ridiculous until you think about the proportion of ero-scenes to regular scenes; like Avenged says, why bother reading a novel-length (or longer!) work for the sake of one or two sex scenes, when you can just go download/buy some regular porn?

Which raises the question of why so many visual novels continue to incorporate token ero-scenes. Then again, why is that even a question? It's not like they're more explicit or more suffused with sex than, say, the average American urban fantasy novel. Laurell K. Hamilton quite outdoes the majority of eroge in terms of the amount of sex in her stories.

And because there are only a few CGs (illustrations) per ero-scene, eroge occupy an interesting middle ground between comics, radio dramas/movies (because they have voices) and novels.

As for the games--visual novels and otherwise--in which sex is definitely the primary factor, everyone has their preferences. I'd assume it's hard to read a book and get off at the same time, too, but ero-manga is a pretty big industry.

~Dagger~

[Panache]

Well if it's made just for entertainment value(not sexual stimulation) wouldn't it be considered an adult game rather than a pornographic game?

[Dagger]

Mm... I would say yes, since I think it's a tad misleading to describe games like that as porn, but at the same time, pornography is so hard to define in the first place. So I can't object really strongly if people want to call them that.

EDIT: There's also a continuum in place that makes it tough to draw the line. Some games are heavy in both ero-scenes and story/character development. Sometimes the sex seems like a vital aspect of the story; sometimes it feels extraneous.

~Dagger~

[Panache]

when I hear the term pornography I usually think something that you uhhh....pleasure yourself too. When I hear adult I generally think of something....well adult. Not specifically that. But I suppose other people can translate these words differently in their head.

[Gavin]

[SIZE="1"]Generally, I would consider pornopraphy to be a material with sex as it's primary focus, where as an adult game could have sex as a major part of it's focus or it's base, but with other segments built around it, like Leisure Suit Larry.[/SIZE]

[Panache]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Generally, I would consider pornopraphy to be a material with sex as it's primary focus, where as an adult game could have sex as a major part of it's focus or it's base, but with other segments built around it, like Leisure Suit Larry.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Yea that makes sense...I can see the appeal of an Adult game but a porno game kinda confuses me.

[Dagger]

While we're here, I think I'll link to this [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n59jSDbeQs][u]vid[/u][/url]. :catgirl:

It's a AMV-esque compilation of clips from the anime-style openings of various eroge. Totally worksafe (it's not even a little risque). You might recognize some stories that later got made into actual anime series, like Utawarerumono and Da Capo.

~Dagger~

[eleanor]

[font="trebuchet ms"]From Merriam-Webster:

[b]Main Entry:[/b]
por·nog·ra·phy Listen to the pronunciation of pornography

[b]1:[/b] the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement
[b]2:[/b] material (as books or a photograph) that depicts erotic behavior and is intended to cause sexual excitement
[b]3:[/b] the depiction of acts in a sensational manner so as to arouse a quick intense emotional reaction

I think those are pretty good definitions. Sex can be the primary focus of a movie, but if it's not aimed at creating sexual excitement (even though viewers could still be, just because it's sex), it's not really pornography. I mean, sex scenes or sexual scenes in a medium can be arousing, but I don't think that's warrant enough to label the whole thing as pornography.[/font]

[quote name='Dagger']That's misrepresenting it a little, I think. Sex & sexual innuendo come out in different ways in different cultures. Japan has way more ero-based games than western countries (plus stuff like Hard Gay, haha). At the same time, it seems that female pop stars (for instance) are expected to cultivate this absurd virginal image, which is almost the exact opposite of celebrity culture in the US.

~Dagger~[/QUOTE]

[font="trebuchet ms"] At the same time, how many of the female characters in Japanese ero-games/hentai are virginal, innocent girls? Even if there are some females portrayed as dominant or something, they're usually evil. The amount of pornography in Japanese culture could just be repressed feelings. It's easy to pick up on the fact that a lot of sex scenes in Japanese pornography are sometimes borderline non-con.

This is just my general understanding, though. I have no idea if what I'm saying is really that true. lol [/font]

[Dagger]

[quote name='Lunox']
[font="trebuchet ms"] At the same time, how many of the female characters in Japanese ero-games/hentai are virginal, innocent girls? Even if there are some females portrayed as dominant or something, they're usually evil. The amount of pornography in Japanese culture could just be repressed feelings. It's easy to pick up on the fact that a lot of sex scenes in Japanese pornography are sometimes borderline non-con.

This is just my general understanding, though. I have no idea if what I'm saying is really that true. lol [/font][/QUOTE]
I find this fascinating (my friend and I were just talking about it the other day, as a matter of fact). Consensual sex scenes in JP games and manga--be they het, BL or yuri--frequently involve the more-submissive party (male or female) getting really embarrassed for no particular reason. S/he'll say "stop" without meaning it, because s/he doesn't want to be the first to lose control, doesn't want to seem vulnerable, fears being judged by his/her partner, etc., etc. And it does get tiresome; sometimes I just want to tell them to relax and enjoy themselves, darn it.

It's so different from American live-action porn, which (and someone please correct me if my generalizations are off the mark) is more likely to involve the sub talking dirty & begging for more.

Semi-consensual and non-consensual scenes are a different animal, but you're definitely right in that even consensual scenes come off oddly because of the types of body language and dialogue used in them. It's not a trope I care for, and I don't understand why it's broadly used in het and same-sex games aimed at both male and female players. That said, there are thankfully a lot of exceptions as well; in the end it comes down to the quality of the writing.

~Dagger~

[2010DigitalBoy]

[quote name='Dagger']I find this fascinating (my friend and I were just talking about it the other day, as a matter of fact). Consensual sex scenes in JP games and manga--be they het, BL or yuri--frequently involve the more-submissive party (male or female) getting really embarrassed for no particular reason. S/he'll say "stop" without meaning it, because s/he doesn't want to be the first to lose control, doesn't want to seem vulnerable, fears being judged by his/her partner, etc., etc. And it does get tiresome; sometimes I just want to tell them to relax and enjoy themselves, darn it.

It's so different from American live-action porn, which (and someone please correct me if my generalizations are off the mark) is more likely to involve the sub talking dirty & begging for more.

~Dagger~[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]hopping in, since this doesn't really only apply to video games and I've been watching a LOT of anime porn lately which almost always falls right in tune with what you're saying. I've pointd this out to myself as well, 90% of the reson I hate American porn is because the chicks are always talking dirty nd doing it for the camera and stuff. Anime chickzors are usually submissive, and like Lunox said, otherwise evil lol.

We all know the real reason for this - otaku dudez crazy softness. They need moe. The need 'soothing' and cute. They want to see the submissive girl who says stop but can't defend herself. Even better if she's a cute little sister who's so embarassed about being seen naked by onii-san and now she's saing 'don't look!' but you know that inside she wants to be one with onii-san and soon they're... okay, I'm done verbally masturbating now XD

Personally, I still find it annoying. I get tird of the porn rhetoric real quick - oh yeah, I find t hot, unlike showy disgusting American porn, but I srill get annoyed. You can only hear 'wait... .don't cum there!!!' and 'that place is dirty! don't put your mouth there!' 'ieeeee~!' so many times before you say '**** it, just take it dammit!'

This is why I love good ol' consensual sex most. When both parties look like they're really enjoying it. Cuz lets face it, they're more coordinated that way, anyway. [/COLOR]

[Konata]

Hmm... Well, I can't say I'm particularly fond of ero in games, but I do like ero games. >_> Sounds a bit of a paradox, haha...

My favorite is [i]Tsukihime[/i]. Very mild, but still awesome =D Of course, the ero themselves weren't really that greatly illustrated either, but that's not the case. Those types of games usually have a great storyline (Look at [i]AIR[/i], [i]Utawarerumono[/i], [i]Fate/Stay Night[/i], etc), detailed but appealing writing, and character development. That's why I like them. Plus, you get a lot of interaction with the characters themselves (Ah, Kohaku~)~

But I'm just talking about the ero visual novels, lol.

Oh, and these types of games really spawn an incredible batch of doujin too (´･ω･｀) Of all different kinds, at that.

So yeah, Japan is definitely not the only one who has porn games.

And to follow with Deus ex Machina's point, I partially agree =D

Usually there is the cliche "protagonist undergoes a transformation, usually mentally" throughout the story. In ero, there is also a change, usually. I will reference [i]Tsukihime[/i] again. At first, the girls seem to be very dominant while the main character seems innocent and uncomfortable. Yet, as time passes on, it is him who dominates them.

[Dagger]

Apparently [url=http://www.dannychoo.com/fauna_detail/eng/636/Women+also+play+Eroge/][u]27% of eroge players[/u][/url] are female. Now, I hope they're just counting straight eroge, because it wouldn't be that interesting of a statistic if they included BL games, haha. Either way, it helps to show that the best ero-games can be enjoyed by anyone (I'd say that the same applies for BL games, but as usual, women are more willing to explore male-oriented works than males are to explore female-oriented works).

Demographic-wise, I think ero-games can be broken down into three main categories: 1) hetero ero-games aimed at men, with a male protagonist, 2) BL games aimed at women, with a male protagonist, and 3) 18+ hetero games aimed at women, with a female protagonist. The latter are usually called otome games, and they're the smallest category, but more and more have been getting released as of late.

What's curious and kind of sad is the near-total absence of yuri games. You'd think that if female gamers can enjoy playing as a male in BL games, then male gamers wouldn't mind playing as a girl in yuri games, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I've seen a lot of comments (frequently from players themselves) to the effect that they need a male protagonist to identify with, even in almost-yuri works like OtoBoku, whose main character cross-dresses with great success.

[quote name='Konata']Hmm... Well, I can't say I'm particularly fond of ero in games, but I do like ero games. >_> Sounds a bit of a paradox, haha...[/QUOTE]
I still play games for reasons other than their ero content, but I've come to appreciate the ero scenes much more than before (or maybe I'm just getting more twisted, haha). I used to be of the mindset that a game wouldn't be worth playing if it had too much ero content... I was a little taken aback to find that I couldn't dismiss games just for that; sometimes it gives everything else (story, characters) more of an impact.

~Dagger~

[2010DigitalBoy]

[quote name='Dagger']What's curious and kind of sad is the near-total absence of yuri games. You'd think that if female gamers can enjoy playing as a male in BL games, then male gamers wouldn't mind playing as a girl in yuri games, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I've seen a lot of comments (frequently from players themselves) to the effect that they need a male protagonist to identify with, even in almost-yuri works like OtoBoku, whose main character cross-dresses with great success.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]High on my list of 'things that piss me off'. there's a shortage of yuri all around, though, in anime as well. I go to look for yuri shows and can only find a rather short list. And the biggest problem wih a limited supply is that it's not like all of them are good. I think it's troubling how yuri fans seem to 'take what they can get'. In fact, you can [url=http://21stcenturydigitalboy.wordpress.com/2007/11/16/yuri-fan-but-not-a-yuri-fan-fan-or-kannazuki-no-miko-sucks/]read my blog post about it.[/url]

I don't play eroge, for the simple reason that I can't read Japanese, can't pay for services, and don't have the sheer HD space to go downloading them. however, if I had a way, I'd be doing exactly what I do with yuri anime - going down that list, checking them all out, and being disappointe at how few good ones there are. [/COLOR]

[Dagger]

Oh my gosh, I couldn't agree more. (Seriously: when Kannazuki first aired, I was horrified by the vast quantities of people who glommed onto it and called it a timeless tale of true love and all that crap. It got to the point where I started to wonder if there was something wrong with me for not liking it. Was I really not such a yuri fan after all?)

Some eroge have English patches: ONE (by some of the staff who later made Kanon and so forth), Tsukihime, Wind - a breath of heart, and others that I'm sure I'm forgetting.

There have also been a couple of decent ones released in English, like Kana - Little Sister, Yume Miru Kusuri (A Drug that Makes You Dream) and Crescendo, along with the all-ages adaptations of well-liked eroge like Phantom of Inferno and Hourglass of Summer.

Also, Ever17 (a visual novel that was all-ages from the start) has been commercially released in English. I still haven't gotten around to playing it, much to my regret, but it's almost universally acknowledged as being one of the greatest visual novels ever.

QC for these games is not always the greatest (they tend to read like fansubs and have a slightly higher frequency of spelling/grammar errors than you'd expect from a professional translation). Considering that the market is virtually nonexistent, though, I feel like these small annoyances are just part of the deal.

~Dagger~

[Neko]

Y'know, I think the genre in general gets way too much heat from critics. Well, perhaps not ero-games as a matter of fact, but more specifically, Japanese visual novels at least are really interesting games. As a female gamer, I've even taken the liberty of playing Tsukihime and Fate/Stay night (playing Melty Blood ReACT and wanting to know who the characters are will do that), which, although they have some sex scenes in them, really aren't driven by it, and in fact have pretty amazing, deep storylines and character concepts. It just happens to have sex in it.

Surprisingly, it's no different than in real life, if you think about it. You're driven by the story, the sex just happens to be in it.;)

When it gets right down to the technical stuff, most games like that use sex as a tool to achieve one of a few effects, in which case it serves to actually enhance the storyline.

Like if it's consensual, as a method to demonstrate the bond that the characters have with each-other. It can really help drive that emotional attachment into you while you're watching the story unfold.

Or, if it's non-consensual, to help demonstrate how much of a jerk character A is to do something like [I]that[/I] to character B.

Although, that one scene that was seemingly randomly stuck in the middle of [U]Darkwatch[/U] has always confused me...