Heroes and dolphins?

[visualkei]

Alright, I'm not sure if this thread has been created already.

So, what do you think about this whole dolphin issue with that Heroes star, Hayden Pannettiere?

Dolphins are adorable, but for now, I really don't care if people are eating them. I don't understand why, out of all the animals in the world, she decided to pick on the dolphins and the Japanese.

?We must unite as a world to solve our increasing international environmental crises,? her statement continued. ?We can no longer hide [behind] out-dated, senseless cultural traditions and lazy, bad habits that are resulting in the annihilation of our planet?s resources and the extinction of our species.? -- Pannettiere

Dolphins aren't going extinct as far as I know. There are a lot more animals out there that need this attention besides dolphins. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't care about dolphins, but that this sort of attention is better distributed elsewhere. Outdated senseless cultural traditions? Okay... Eating dolphins isn't outdated, it just happens to be some sort of delicacy in another culture. I can name a few animals being eaten in the U.S. that's considered barbaric in other countries, but no one's emo enough to protest that.

Nobody's making anyone eat anything... senselessly. This just seems to me a situation blown up because a kid that has a crush on a specific type of animal. Not only that, but some people are reporting it as if she's some sort of hero. To me, she's just annoying fisherman from another country.

Agree? Disagree? Go ahead.

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="77656"]I don't know much. I only ogle at Hayden and wish I was friends with her. But I'm 14 I don't have a big thing for the whole dolphin crusade. But I would never eat a dolphin, plus they deserve to live. They are smart animals, and the smart ones should live. The dumb ones should too, but the whole eating issue is weird. First of all, human hunger comes first for me, as long as it doesn't extinct a whole species, n'mean?[/COLOR]

[Nerdsy]

[color=deeppink]There's at least one endangered species of Dolphin that the Japanese hunt. Not to mention that the method Hayden was protesting is somewhat... inhumane, and consists of beaching the dolphins.

And I'd hardly call six people paddling out into the middle of the ocean as being an exhorbant amount of attention.

Also, I wonder what Masi Oka thinks of this.[/color]

[The Spectacular Professor]

[quote name='Nerdsy'][color=deeppink]There's at least one endangered species of Dolphin that the Japanese hunt. Not to mention that the method Hayden was protesting is somewhat... inhumane, and consists of beaching the dolphins.[/color][/QUOTE]

So stick the Dolphin on a list and ban that particular practice. You don't see Hindus raising international outcries over the American Hamburger. I agree that this is blown way out of proportion. If there is one species of dolphin that is endangered, then have it protected and have the others hunted in a different manner. You don't need to ban the entire practice over one specific species and method. People have to eat. Anyone miss that chicken they had last week?

[The13thMan]

[COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]It'd be great if you could give us a link to an in-depth article or something of the sort. I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. I don't even know who this person is. All i can tell is from what you said.

Why would you want to eat a dolphin? They're so cute! Plus they're the only other species besides humans that has sex for pleasure... and there ain't nuthin' cute about that. ;D

Honestly though, link it up, brudda.
[/FONT][/COLOR]

[vegeta rocker]

I for one am glad she is protesting, this rant is directed more at the Chinese than the Japanese though.

First of all last year, on December 13 the Chinese Dolphin was declared extinct. Thats ironically my dads birthday.

The Chinese dolphin lived in ONE area in the world and China did squat to protect it. In fact they didn't even declare it extinct, America did. They just don't care.

They also continue to hunt whales, for research they say.

Then of course there is shark fin soup.

Baiting sharks, chopping their fins off then throwing them back in the water is cruel and wasteful.

China needs to start taking a pivotal role in how they treat the environment. Because when they eventually screw up their ecosystem with no dolphins they will have a much heavier price to pay.

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]I think it's pretty clear that any endangered species should have some protections in place.

I don't know whether or not the dolphin population is [i]generally[/i] endangered (I imagine not), but for me that really gets to the core of the issue.

I really have no problem with the farming of just about any animal as long as it's regulated and done in a way that is sustainable. I mean, we're okay with killing chickens...and that's probably largely because we farm them and they are in no danger of becoming extinct.

I would have thought this would be the major test for any form of farming - sustainability.[/font]

[Nerdsy]

[quote name='Aceburner']You don't see Hindus raising international outcries over the American Hamburger.[/quote]

[color=deeppink]How is that a justification to ignore something you consider atrocius? "Hindus ignore it, you should too?"[ I'm not saying I agree hat dolphins shouldn't be used for food, but I don't see how other's inaction should prevent anyone else from acting on their beliefs.

And by the way, you say they should ban that particular practice? That's pretty much exactly what she's trying to do; stop that particular practice. Hence why she protested that particular practice.

She may have other, broader goals concerning no one hunting a dolphin ever, but they were not voiced by her during this. Unless you've got a quote I haven't seen, of course. If so, by all means, show me.

As for dolphins being endangered overall... no, they're not, as far as I've been able to ascertain. It seems they're headed that way, and if people keep treating them as they do now, they certainly will be. To be fair, it seems to be a long way off from getting that bad.[/color]

[The Spectacular Professor]

[quote name='Nerdsy'][color=deeppink]How is that a justification to ignore something you consider atrocius? "Hindus ignore it, you should too?"[ I'm not saying I agree hat dolphins shouldn't be used for food, but I don't see how other's inaction should prevent anyone else from acting on their beliefs.[/color][/QUOTE]

My point was actually something along the lines of "Don't preach to a culture you don't understand, because it makes you look stupid to them." The cow is a sacred animal to the Hindu culture. However, They don't come out and say that you can't eat hamburgers anymore because they don't think you should.

Anyway, In order to keep this from becoming a flame war, I'm going to go ahead and say right now that I am extremely ill-informed about the story at hand. I agree with The13thMan, any source anyone could provide us with would be nice.

Basically, I think James has summed up my feelings on the matter with his last comment.

[Rachmaninoff]

Well first of all here's a link to a news article on this: [URL="http://news.aol.com/entertainment/television/tv-news-story/ar/_a/panettiere-wanted-for-dolphin-protest/20071115133909990001"][U]Article[/U][/URL] And second, so long as it's not one of the species of Dolphins that is endangered I don't see a problem, at least so long as the fishing is reasonable and not going to eventually lead to extinction by over harvesting, etc. I couldn't find anything to indicate whether or not the dolphins killed are among the ones that are considered endangered or not. So I can't really say one way or another on this.

[The Spectacular Professor]

[quote name='Rachmaninoff']Well first of all here's a link to a news article on this: [URL="http://news.aol.com/entertainment/television/tv-news-story/ar/_a/panettiere-wanted-for-dolphin-protest/20071115133909990001"][U]Article[/U][/URL] [/QUOTE]

Domo, Rach-san.

I really should have read the TC's post more thoroughly. I didn't realize it was Claire we were talking about.

Not that I care much anyway. Don't really watch Heroes.

You know, I could really start worrying more if I knew which type of dolphin she was out getting arrested for. As such, most of the quotes in this article sound like sophistry. I do, however, respect her right to share her feelings on the matter.

Usually, I don't pay attention to any news story regarding celebrities, since a lot of them are just desperate outcries for attention (Although I DO remember a pretty funny "Over the Hedge" comic from when Britney Spears shaved her head.) This, however, isn't quite as stupid as some others I've seen.

[Nerdsy]

[quote name='Aceburner']You know, I could really start worrying more if I knew which type of dolphin she was out getting arrested for.[/QUOTE]


[color=deeppink]Pilot whales. Supposedly, they're currently well-off.[/color]

[The Spectacular Professor]

[quote name='Nerdsy'][color=deeppink]Pilot whales. Supposedly, they're currently well-off.[/color][/QUOTE]

Well then, I'm not too worried.

[visualkei]

Okay, I've read some articles on this issue with Pannettiere, and I have not heard anything about an endangered dolphin species.

[quote name='Nerdsy']Pilot whales. Supposedly, they're currently well-off.[/quote]

What? Currently well-off, so this means that they're not endangered?

Someone mentioned something about dolphins in China being extinct. Yes, it's sad that that happened, but linking the Japanese who are not hunting endangered species to the Chinese causing extinction of a certain species from hunting doesn't really send a message to the Chinese to vamp up their hunting guidelines.

Okay, [B]particular practice[/B]. What do you mean by "particular practice" Nerdsy? Do you mean to change the practice by which the dolphin is killed or that the Japanese should not eat dolphins at all?

You already know that I don't see anything wrong with Japanese eating dolphins. As far as the practice by which they kill dolphins, yes it is cruel. But so is the way all other animals are killed for food. Many fish are killed that way, they get cut up while they're alive. Now I know the dolphin is a mammal, and a big one at that, and that's probably why Miss Hayden made a big deal out of it. A big cute mammal is getting killed. The only difference in the way they're killed from our "humane" way of killing cows is that the dolphin isn't stunned before getting sliced. While killing cows, the assembly goes by so fast that some cows don't get the full shock treatment and may still feel pain. Not only that but whether the treatment really desensitizes them or just simply makes them unable to react physically to the pain, is uncertain.

If it'll make it more "humane" to stunn the dolphin before slicing it, I have no problem with that. Animals that are killed for food deserve to be killed painlessly. But if it's downright protesting people for eating a certain animal that's NOT extinct, then that's just hypocrisy and intolerance.

[quote name='Aceburner']The cow is a sacred animal to the Hindu culture. However, They don't come out and say that you can't eat hamburgers anymore because they don't think you should.[/quote]

Right. The Hindus aren't apathetic. Why should they protest? They simply respect that in other cultures people eat different things. They're just minding their own business.

[Gavin]

[quote name='James'][font=franklin gothic medium]I think it's pretty clear that any endangered species should have some protections in place.

I don't know whether or not the dolphin population is [i]generally[/i] endangered (I imagine not), but for me that really gets to the core of the issue.

I really have no problem with the farming of just about any animal as long as it's regulated and done in a way that is sustainable. I mean, we're okay with killing chickens...and that's probably largely because we farm them and they are in no danger of becoming extinct.

I would have thought this would be the major test for any form of farming - sustainability.[/font][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]This pretty much sums up my thoughts on it, if people want dolphin, let them at least farm the thing to make sure they don't wipe it out.

That said, the more humane the method of culling the animals, the better.[/SIZE]

[Nerdsy]

[quote name='visualkei']Okay, I've read some articles on this issue with Pannettiere, and I have not heard anything about an endangered dolphin species.[/quote]

[color=deeppink]That's because it didn't really involve them, at least as far as I know. I was merely mentioning that, indeed, there are extinct species of dolphins that the Japanese hunt.[/color]

[quote]What? Currently well-off, so this means that they're not endangered?[/quote]

[color=deeppink]Yes.[/color]


[quote]Okay, [B]particular practice[/B]. What do you mean by "particular practice" Nerdsy? Do you mean to change the practice by which the dolphin is killed or that the Japanese should not eat dolphins at all?[/quote]

[color=deeppink]I mean the way in which they are killed.[/color]

[quote]You already know that I don't see anything wrong with Japanese eating dolphins. As far as the practice by which they kill dolphins, yes it is cruel. But so is the way all other animals are killed for food. Many fish are killed that way, they get cut up while they're alive.[/quote]

[color=deeppink]I've never understood why this is considered a justification. There are other wrongs in the world, so let's ignore them all? I'm not the only one doing it, leave me be? Of course, if you're taking the approach of "why specifically target them, when there are so many other people doing it," then that's just overly demanding. No one can protest all the wrongs of the world at once; one thing at a time.[/color]

[quote]Now I know the dolphin is a mammal, and a big one at that, and that's probably why Miss Hayden made a big deal out of it. A big cute mammal is getting killed. The only difference in the way they're killed from our "humane" way of killing cows is that the dolphin isn't stunned before getting sliced. While killing cows, the assembly goes by so fast that some cows don't get the full shock treatment and may still feel pain. Not only that but whether the treatment really desensitizes them or just simply makes them unable to react physically to the pain, is uncertain. [/quote]

[color=deeppink]Why is Hayden the only target of criticism here? There were five or so other people doing this. Besdies that, I'm not sure why people are brushing this off as "oh, it's just some girl worried about cute things." She cares about whether a species cruelly hunted down; whether or not she thinks they're cute is irrelevant, as her goal is the same no matter what.[/color]

[quote]If it'll make it more "humane" to stunn the dolphin before slicing it, I have no problem with that. Animals that are killed for food deserve to be killed painlessly. [b]But if it's downright protesting people for eating a certain animal that's NOT extinct, then that's just hypocrisy and intolerance.[/b][/quote]

[color=deeppink]It's difficult to eat something that's extinct, not to mention protesting people for doing so. Perhaps you meant endangered? : P

And the problem with the "If it aint broke, don't fix it" mentality is that people end up sitting there watching things break. The dolphins are currently neither threatend nor endangered, but according to my research they will be if humans continue with their current practices.[/color]


[quote]Right. The Hindus aren't apathetic. Why should they protest? They simply respect that in other cultures people eat different things. They're just minding their own business.[/QUOTE]

[color=deeppink]My point was not that Hindu's are apathetic, but that other's actions are not a justification. I suppose I could phrase it as "If all the Hindus jumped off a bridge, would you do it to?" It's an exaggeration, but my point is there.

And on a lighter note, telling an American to respect foriegn cultures isn't showing respect to American culture. : P[/color]

[visualkei]

[quote name='Nerdsy'][color=deeppink]Why is Hayden the only target of criticism here? There were five or so other people doing this. Besdies that, I'm not sure why people are brushing this off as "oh, it's just some girl worried about cute things." She cares about whether a species cruelly hunted down; whether or not she thinks they're cute is irrelevant, as her goal is the same no matter what.[/color][/QUOTE]

She's a star. That's it. What she does is going to be blown up. She's a role model for lots of kiddos out there. How come I didn't see or read anything about the others that were there with her? Because they're not a character on a popular t.v. show and nobody wants to report on them when they could report on somebody that many people already are familiar with.

Yes. I do admit I seem like I'm brushing it off as some kid wild about cute things. But that's my first impression when I saw her whining on t.v. and I'm just being straight-up about it.

Because she's a celebrity, and she's out protesting, the only reports I've seen are of her being reported as some sort of hero. Nevermind that she got in the way of farmers doing their everyday job. Nevermind that because of her, people get the impression that the Japanese don't care about marine life. And that in American television the Japanese fishermen are being demonized for fishing a specific animal that they've been fishing for ever. And the way they kill the dolphins, I don't think so much more inhumane from how the American industry kill their animals.

[QUOTE][color=deeppink]It's difficult to eat something that's extinct, not to mention protesting people for doing so. Perhaps you meant endangered? : P

And the problem with the "If it aint broke, don't fix it" mentality is that people end up sitting there watching things break. The dolphins are currently neither threatend nor endangered, but according to my research they will be if humans continue with their current practices.[/color]

[color=deeppink]And on a lighter note, telling an American to respect foriegn cultures isn't showing respect to American culture. : P[/color][/QUOTE]

[color=deeppink]No one can protest all the wrongs of the world at once; one thing at a time.[/color]

Yes, I meant "endangered." heh. And, um, yeah, [B]any animal[/B] is going to be threatened or endangered if humans hunt them excessively. I think that applies to every living creature. According to your research, the dolphins aren't endangered, so, I'm not worried about them. You can be.

Back to justification, "if it ain't broke," etc. Yes, just because another culture isn't protesting ours, doesn't mean we shouldn't either. But if everybody were out protesting because of these disagreements, then we're going to be in a lot of trouble. [B]I guess it comes down to our opinions and weighing what's worth protesting. [/B] This is trivial to me. It's trivial to protest people eating something. But, to me, it's not trivial to argue what's a humane way to kill animals. It's not trivial at all to you, I know. I just think it's not worth protesting Japanese eating dolphins when there are [B]endangered[/B] species out there that deserve this attention.

I'm sure about everyone here agrees that endangered species deserve special attention. And I think that most people that we don't know think that's reasonable as well. There's something we can agree on.

But when there are a lot of people that think it's OK to eat dolphins, and a lot of people that think it's NOT OK, why should we lean in the direction of it not being OK? When both sides have reasonable justification for why they think so. But until someone out there can give me a better reason to stop the Japanese from hunting dolphins, then I'll consider changing my viewpoint. And I will consider changing my viewpoint if there I believe there is a good reason to. I do think that all animals killed for food should be killed as painlessly as possible, and if we can do that for the animals, we should. Whereas someone who thinks that it's just wrong to eat dolphins, period, will probably not change their viewpoint. And isn't that what Hayden's stance is about, because I'm not for certain? Simply to not eat dolphins, period? You can correct me if I'm wrong. And I know that there are a lot of people with that stance. Because she's some celebrity who said something about it, and people are reporting about her, there's a face to put on this issue, and so I began this forum by referring back to her actions.

And asking an American to respect foreign cultures isn't showing respect to American culture? That doesn't make sense to me because respecting other people's culture is one's choice, it's even something that Americans teach in school, and doesn't exactly counter American culture.

I know this seems long-winded, and even though we have opposing viewpoints, it's cool. =)

[Nerdsy]

[quote name='visualkei']Yes. I do admit I seem like I'm brushing it off as some kid wild about cute things. But that's my first impression when I saw her whining on t.v. and I'm just being straight-up about it.[/quote]

[color=deeppink]Yeah, I know. I was just confronting that impression. ; )[/color]

[color=deeppink]No one can protest all the wrongs of the world at once; one thing at a time.[/color]

[quote]Yes, I meant "endangered." heh. And, um, yeah, [B]any animal[/B] is going to be threatened or endangered if humans hunt them excessively. I think that applies to every living creature. According to your research, the dolphins aren't endangered, so, I'm not worried about them. You can be.[/quote]

[color=deeppink]Well, that was the whole point of the protest... cut the problem off at the past. Stop over-hunting before the several species of dolphins that were being hunted wound up on the endangered species list (which is not easy to fix once that happens).

And I think you misunderstand me; I don't particularly care about whether or not the dolphins are being hunted (there are much worse factors out there contributing to the possible endangerment of dolphins), and I'm not exactly worried about their safety. I was merely trying to give another viewpoint on Hayden's actions, because I don't think it's fair that her protest is being written off as a "just a girl with a crush."

Plus, there were several points made that didn't sit well with me.[/color]

[quote] I just think it's not worth protesting Japanese eating dolphins when there are [B]endangered[/B] species out there that deserve this attention. [/quote]

[color=deeppink]They're getting the attention; PETA's not exactly resting on it's laurels, and the fate of the world's species does not rest solely on Hayden's head.

And like I said, five or six people swimming around in the ocean isn't exactly an exhorbant number.[/color]

[quote]And isn't that what Hayden's stance is about, because I'm not for certain? Simply to not eat dolphins, period? You can correct me if I'm wrong. And I know that there are a lot of people with that stance. [/quote]

[color=deeppink]Here quote can be read as either her wanting to stop all hunting, or just the annual hunt. She's not exactly clear; I'm leaning towards the latter myself.[/color]

[quote]And asking an American to respect foreign cultures isn't showing respect to American culture? That doesn't make sense to me because respecting other people's culture is one's choice, it's even something that Americans teach in school, and doesn't exactly counter American culture. [/quote]

[color=deeppink]We've been trying to tell the world what to do for decades. Cuba, Iraq, Iran, Panama (we incited a rebellion! THat was a fun one), China, etc.

Not to mention that we as American's [i]love[/i] giving other people advice and telling them how wrong they are, and other countries aren't exactly excluded from that. It's a part of our culture, even if the schools say otherwise.

As to the choice: individual Mexicans may choose to celebrate Dia de los Muertos, but it's still part of Mexican culture. Individual choice doesn't exactly factor in.

NOTE: It's late and I'm tired. If any of this turns out to be incoherent rambling, my apologies.[/color]

[neko Misty]

hey, you guys should know you're not supposed to kill the cute animals, just the butt-ugly ones! lol... j/k

a thought though... did anyone else hear about the pod of dolphins that saved a surfer from a shark? happened off the California coast, I think. if dolphins behave in such a noble and selfless way toward us, shouldn't we consider returning the favor?