Death from a Cyber Bully

[eleanor]

[quote name='Aaryanna'][COLOR="goldenrod"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"] Uh, you don't suffer from depression and you're not thirteen. That really puts you in the position of not being able to relate to what this girl was going through at all. What you would have done is irrelevant since everyone reacts differently depending on the situation. What upsets one person, another will shrug off and continue as if nothing happened.

Trying to relate, especially when your situation is totally different is kind of pointless since it's all to easy to fall back on the fallacy of "if it were me" which is completely inaccurate and not a good guide to go by. Try reading up on depression to see how it affects someone or even try to imagine how you or others you know who are only thirteen react to things. In other words try to see things from perhaps the girls point of view instead of your own before you declare someone "shouldn't" have done something.

It's ridiculously easy to use hindsight and think someone was to blame when you yourself did not experience any of the emotional pain that this girl felt that drove her to kill herself. Allamorph makes a very good point about shifting focus away from the adult who clearly was the one who "should" have known better.

Lets not be so quick to point fingers at the minor who like all minor's depends upon the adults around them to make mature responsible decisions. She was betrayed by the trust of someone who was more than old enough to realize that what she was doing was wrong.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[font="trebuchet ms"] [i]This[/i] is QFT. [/font]

[pooperson]

[COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"][SIZE="1"]I read this on another forum. It brought me to tears... I can't believe that someone would be so cruel.

I think the lady should have to talk to schools about internet safety & tell her story about all the stuff she did. Ya know, own up to her *******.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Konata]

[quote name='Lunox'][font="trebuchet ms"] [i]This[/i] is QFT. [/font][/QUOTE]

QFT?! This! Is!! !!!

[quote]Uh, you don't suffer from depression and you're not thirteen.[/quote]

[quote]I don't suffer from depression (or at least I haven't been diagnosed with it ;D), I'm not 13[/quote]
I'm not really sure,... But I think I know this. Oh wait

But then why did I write it? It's a waste of your time because it's irrelevant and you just wasted a whole two seconds of your life reading it, it's a waste of my time because I'm wasting time writing it, and it's a waste of the Internet because... it's a waste. But that's because it was an answer to a question, and everyone likes questions ;D But also,

[quote]What you would have done is irrelevant since everyone reacts differently depending on the situation.[/quote]

But for being so irrelevant, it sure proved my point.

My point: [quote]everyone reacts differently depending on the situation.[/quote]

Let me stress this:
[quote]Also, she had no way of knowing that this online friend would suddenly turn on her, so it's not like a case of harassment by someone unknown, it was someone she thought was her friend. Making it even more disgusting since she was probably trying to figure out what had happened. What would you do if someone you liked suddenly started saying things like the mother did? Most people try to find out and that just exposed her to even more hate messages.[/quote]
I hope at least one person saw the irony in this.

[quote]Try reading up on depression to see how it affects someone or even try to imagine how you or others you know who are only thirteen react to things.[/quote]
Yeah. I'm sorry, I don't know anything about depression. After all, I've only studied depression for a semester in a Psychology college course. Actually, I partially lied ;D I'm still studying it. I'm sure the first thing on my OtakuBoards Christmas List might show something about one of my hobbies. But for a hobby, I'm sure ignorant, mediocre, and absolutely ridiculous in my knowledge of psychology. I'm probably reading something terribly wrong, like [i]Wikipedia[/i]. Because I don't want to be misquoted, that was partial sarcasm ;O And there is partial sarcasm in a lot of my sentences, and if I need to colorize half of this response to tell you THIS IS SARCASM and THIS IS NOT SARCASM, then just tell me. But I do admit, you're probably way more informed than me about depression. Anyways.

But I don't have any friends who have had a professional diagnose him/her with depression. ("Hey guys, hey guys! Raise your hands if your doctor says you're suffering from depression!") I mean, when I was 11, I would meet people online that claimed to be suffering from depression, but then again, I could claim that I'm a 74 year old German male. Or a 16 year old Asian female. Or God.

Anyways, I can't imagine correctly, especially if it's just "depression" I'm imagining. Dysthymia? Somatoform disorder (although I doubt that)? Just clinical depression? What was the severity? Or was she suffering from something that caused intervals of depression? E.g., cyclothymia, bipolar disorder (lol), etc etc. It's hard to tell. But you can tell me the answer. Just like saying "Imagine yourself as a crazy cannibal". If I suffered from schizophrenia, [b]maybe[/b] I thought that the voices in my head persuaded me to eat him. I couldn't penetrate them... they wouldn't stop until I satisfied their desire and ate him! Or [b]maybe[/b] I thought that there was nothing wrong in eating him, because it's just flesh. Can't I eat meat? Or, [b]maybe[/b] I was not clinically insane, but perhaps experienced social anxiety disorder at one point, or just paraphilia, and I felt the urge to devour his body so that he was inside me. To sink my teeth into his flesh until the warm, sallow juices ooze out... With that, the weak, frail me would have absorbed the powerful radiance of that man. Or [b]maybe[/b] it was my fantasy to finally punish my victim. The moment he turned away to read a poem, I'd shoot him, and then spend the rest of the night dining on his corpse. Listening to the recording of his voice while I chew on his juicy but soft meat (which seemed to melt in my mouth like tuna), I had felt as if that terrible person could no longer hurt me. I owned him now. He was my possession. Or [b]maybe[/b] I just needed to eat him. And likewise, etc, etc. And that's why it's difficult to think in the mind of a "crazy cannibal". The same goes for a "depressed girl". Of course, the cannibal synopsis was a bit more broad. But nevertheless, the depressed girl synopsis wouldn't be much different in that sense.

[quote]In other words try to see things from perhaps the girls point of view instead of your own before you declare someone "shouldn't" have done something.[/quote]
But I don't need to be suffering from depression to determine whether or not she shouldn't have been digging for insults when she couldn't handle them. Do I need to suffer from folie à deux (folie simultanée, respectively) in order to tell people that they should stay away from others as to not spread your disease?

I'll also quote Aaryaana_Mom's quote here.
[quote]to log off MySpace, where users must be at least 14.[/quote]

I think this also poses a point. She was 13. I know, I know. No one (or at least barely anyone) actually cares about age restrictions on the Internet. Since you know, it seems as if everyone is 100 years old on [i]MySpace[/i] nowadays, right? But alas, age restrictions should not be ignored. There are reasons for them, and generally she should have been following them. And before anyone tells me this, no, you don't have to not have depression in order to make the judgment that a thirteen year old should not go on a social networking site that clearly states that she should not be on there at her age.

Skeptical? Wait, that's a dumb question. Because at this point, I'm sure most of you are ready to hit that [b]Submit Reply[/b] button and argue back. And that's good. I would like to expect that. How can two opposing sides ever agree, right?

I've talked about MySpace. Now let's talk about another situation that could parallel with this. Like, illegal downloading. It's illegal. Illegal downloading is illegaaaaaal. But no one cares if it's illegal, because it's so easy to pirate their favorite music, anime, and more. Well, at least they don't care until they get that lovely $4000 bill from ODEX saying that their IP address has been logged for downloading a [i]Naruto[/i] sub from Dattebayo (lol singapura).

Or how about those rated M games? Gotta love those. Take the [i]Grand Theft Auto[/i] series for example, since people like Jack Thompson sure love to make a big deal out of it. Here's the synopsis. A 13 year old kid asks his parents to buy it for him. His parents agree and do it. The kid begins to take it on a serious level and ends up re-acting one of those scenes. Ends up killing someone. Now, of course, it's obviously ESRB Ratings' fault because they didn't stop it from happening. Right? [i]Right?[/i] I mean, making it M isn't enough, because it's definitely not the parent's fault for giving that cashier lady an ID card and buying that game without knowing what they were buying their kid, right? Because ESRB should be responsible for monitoring every single buyer of [i]GTA:SA[/i], [i]GTA:VC[/i], and all other M games, making sure children under the age of 18 are strapped to a wall of at least 100 meters away from every M-rated game. Right? And while we're at it, point fingers at the cashier lady for selling that wretched game! Btw, I hope you got my sarcasm. Actually, lemme make this clear.

[B]^ SARCASM[/B]
On the Internet.

Anyways, long anecdote. So immediately, since she was depressed child, automatically, all fault goes to the parent? Just because she was 13 and depressed? It's not schizophrenia. Depression isn't schizophrenia (even though schizophrenia can have depression). Please correct me if I'm wrong. She did not have schizophrenia. She was not clinically insane. And because psychologists define insanity as the inability to differentiate right from wrong, it is assumable that the girl had sense. And before the "in before I NEVER SAID SHE HAD SCHIZOPHRENIA", I think I know about that. But I'm reading stuff that's saying
She was incapable of correct judgment. But she was 13 and therefore she has a perfectly valid excuse! Right? But likewise, I think that even at the age of 13, she could be able to use her sanity to judge whether or not she would go into a dark alley with a bloodthirsty gang of knives, or walk in the public street with efficient lighting and people who could watch over her. She could be able to use her sanity to judge the same thing online. Depression might have impaired her judgment in the possible sense that she couldn't take the insults. But depression won't force you into that dark alley, nor that scavenger hunt for those insults that caused her to commit suicide.

[quote]Lets not be so quick to point fingers at the minor who like all minor's depends upon the adults around them to make mature responsible decisions.[/quote]

But if I was quick to point fingers, I'd only have one finger pointing at her, one finger at the parent, one finger at the Internet, one finger at justice, and I guess since I don't have anyone else to point fingers at, I'd be pointing at myself.

But in all seriousness, like I've mentioned in previous posts, the parent was at fault.

The parent was at fault.
The parent was at fault.
The parent was at fault.

But I'm saying that in my opinion, the girl was also at fault for several reasons mentioned above and below, near and far, and why not beyond.

[quote]She was betrayed by the trust of someone who was more than old enough to realize that what she was doing was wrong.[/quote]
Which brings up an interesting point. Everyone pays attention to the victim. Because she's depressed. Because she killed herself by a horrible parent. But I'd like to know about the parent.

[quote name='"SunfallE"']Probably and once I realized that I googled it. Big mistake, even if some of those rules make sense, some of those links led to stuff that I'd rather not see at all. Blech.[/quote]
Stresses Rule 28 of the Internet even more, huh? But yeah, sorry I didn't edit it faster, lol. There are a lot of things on the site you went to, and the other parts of the Internet, that make people go "Blech". I'm used to it since I've seen most of it when I was eleven, with those oh so lovely encounters with Internet harassment, lol.

In all of this trouble and turmoil though, I have learned something. If people are really going to take the Internet so seriously, they'll kill themselves over it, then I should really stop turning my backs on people.

But really, in all truth, I don't feel a drop of sadness or pity for the girl. I've read about suicides by depressed people who couldn't handle the turning back of someone online. If I was sad every time I read one of those, I would have probably died from tears.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]I heard about this incident and read about it last Thursday. I have to say one of the creepiest things is that the victim and I share the same name and were both diagnosed with depression.

I do hold the parent of the daughter's former friend responsible for this tragedy. If this girl and her daughter didn't want to be friends with eachother so what? It's not a reason for a grown woman to get online and start harrassing a CHILD. As an adult she really should have known better and the blame is clearly at her feet. If she hadn't taken it upon herself to instigate the 'relationship' and decided to avenge some slight to her own daughter this never would have happened.

Perhaps this woman should have had in the back of her mind what she'd feel like if the tables were turned and someone were doing this to her daughter. Maybe then she wouldn't have taken this path and just stayed away. I am horrified that a grown woman who is supposedly more mature than a thirteen year old would stoop to such a level, but I really can't say that I'm shocked since I've seen how immature many grown ups can act.

Unfortunately The internet gives people the freedom to freely say whatever they feel like reason be dammed. A lot of people who spew garbage argue that they're withing their rights to say such things never mind the fact that it's cruel, hurtful and if read by a potential employer could be considered defamation of character or slander. In the US you can't be sued for anything you say in a chat or a blog only in emails which really sucks.

In conclusion, I hope some day this woman just gets so riddled with guilt (long shot in hell because I know of a few people who fail to show remorse for anything they've done) that she sinks into depression. I don't wish anyone in the family dead. Because that would let them off too easy. Guilt is a much better form of torture and I do hope that she is tortured by her thoughts some day. And if not there's always karma.[/color][/font]

[Aaryanna_Mom]

[quote name='Konata'] And there is partial sarcasm in a lot of my sentences, and
/////
I think this also poses a point. She was 13. I know, I know.
////
Btw, I hope you got my sarcasm. Actually, lemme make this clear.

[B]^ SARCASM[/B]
On the Internet.
/////
She was incapable of correct judgment. But she was 13 and therefore she has a perfectly valid excuse! Right? But likewise, I think that even at the age of 13, she could be able to use her sanity to judge whether or not she would go into a dark alley with a bloodthirsty gang of knives, or walk in the public street with efficient lighting and people who could watch over her. She could be able to use her sanity to judge the same thing online. Depression might have impaired her judgment in the possible sense that she couldn't take the insults. But depression won't force you into that dark alley, nor that scavenger hunt for those insults that caused her to commit suicide.
/////
Which brings up an interesting point. Everyone pays attention to the victim. Because she's depressed. Because she killed herself by a horrible parent. But I'd like to know about the parent.
/////
But really, in all truth, I don't feel a drop of sadness or pity for the girl. I've read about suicides by depressed people who couldn't handle the turning back of someone online. If I was sad every time I read one of those, I would have probably died from tears.[/QUOTE]Goodness, I can understand your intent about sarcasm but it's way overdone and just rude really. Honestly, you can refute someone's point or simply point out that you did say the parent was at fault with out the long condescending rant.

Also, I'm going to smack you a bit here young lady. Follow my earlier suggestion and google this and read up on it, the girl got permission from her parents to join myspace, she got permission to add this fake "Josh" to her friends list. She talked to them about what was happening and they tried to tell her it would be all right. In other words, her parents were involved in her life and actively trying to help her.

So you don't feel sorry for her, that's fine, but honestly sadder than hell that you seem to feel no sympathy whatsoever. No one is expecting you 'die' from tears. And if you can't see that most of our replies are because we find it strange that you could be without pity, then really, you're missing out here.

Though if you've read all of the articles out there on this and you still have this snarky I don't give a damn attitude, then that's just even more sad. And I'll leave it at that since overbearing sarcasm that implies the rest of us are stupid is a waste of my time to even respond to.

[Konata]

[quote name='Aaryanna_Mom']Goodness, I can understand your intent about sarcasm but it's way overdone and just rude really. Honestly, you can refute someone's point or simply point out that you did say the parent was at fault with out the long condescending rant.

Also, I'm going to smack you a bit here young lady. Follow my earlier suggestion and google this and read up on it, the girl got permission from her parents to join myspace, she got permission to add this fake "Josh" to her friends list. She talked to them about what was happening and they tried to tell her it would be all right. In other words, her parents were involved in her life and actively trying to help her.

So you don't feel sorry for her, that's fine, but honestly sadder than hell that you seem to feel no sympathy whatsoever. No one is expecting you 'die' from tears. And if you can't see that most of our replies are because we find it strange that you could be without pity, then really, you're missing out here.

Though if you've read all of the articles out there on this and you still have this snarky I don't give a damn attitude, then that's just even more sad. And I'll leave it at that since overbearing sarcasm that implies the rest of us are stupid is a waste of my time to even respond to.[/QUOTE]

I'd like to say that the parts that might make me seem condescending weren't sarcastic because if I say I'm stupid, I mean I'm stupid (and I cherish all of your opinions, because after all, if we were all consistent, then all of your great minds out there would have simply nothing to do[/emerson]), and maybe I should've highlighted all of the sarcastic remarks. I know I make people sad, I know I am a fool, I'm sadder than hell, and I guess I have a snarky I don't give a ---- attitude (which contradicts the fact that I did reply to this topic which means I possibly have an I do give a ---- attitude since I am acknowledging this particular topic, but I shouldn't say it because I wouldn't be conforming), but

Okay.

Very well, I humbly apologize for my satire and I will never attempt to be humorous on [url]http://www.otakuboards.com[/url] again.

And I'll conform. To everything. Now let's start over again so I am conforming. And although I can't concur with this topic anymore, I shall agree on every topic here, from now on. I shall not make people sad nor shall I be a fool. My vulgar behavior was unerringly extraneous. Henceforth, due to the fact that my opinions and satire are wrong, conclusively, I shall resort to conformity. Thank you for the wonderful advice.

[Aaryanna_Mom]

[quote name='Konata']I'd like to say that the parts that might make me seem condescending weren't sarcastic because if I say I'm stupid, I mean I'm stupid (and I cherish all of your opinions, because after all, if we were all consistent, then all of your great minds out there would have simply nothing to do[/emerson]), and maybe I should've highlighted all of the sarcastic remarks. I know I make people sad, I know I am a fool, I'm sadder than hell, and I guess I have a snarky I don't give a ---- attitude (which contradicts the fact that I did reply to this topic which means I possibly have an I do give a ---- attitude since I am acknowledging this particular topic, but I shouldn't say it because I wouldn't be conforming), but

Okay.

Very well, I humbly apologize for my satire and I will never attempt to be humorous on [url]http://www.otakuboards.com[/url] again.[/QUOTE]Or I can explain that I'm a 50 year old parent who until last year never joined an online forum, has never read any of the Internet rules [nor do I intend to based on what I've heard] and will in all honesty admit that most if not all sarcasm goes completely over my head. I try to understand it but honestly I don't. It makes it hard for me to know when someone is being sarcastic or condescending or trying to be funny.

There's no need to apologize for your satire, I'm only sorry that I seem to fail to grasp it. It's not intentional I assure you.[quote name='Konata']And I'll conform. To everything. Now let's start over again so I am conforming. And although I can't concur with this topic anymore, I shall agree on every topic here, from now on. I shall not make people sad nor shall I be a fool. My vulgar behavior was unerringly extraneous. Henceforth, due to the fact that my opinions and satire are wrong, conclusively, I shall resort to conformity. Thank you for the wonderful advice.[/QUOTE]Don't do that, seriously, and again I can't tell if you're being sarcastic/funny/condescending or not. I sincerely hope you are, just trying to be a bit funny or sarcastic. Just as I hope you understand that part of my sadness over this whole thing is the lack of caring towards others who do struggle with depression and end up killing themselves. I can't and I hope I never do understand how the other mother could knowingly do what she did to the girl.

Anyway, I'm sorry for being harsh.

[Konata]

[quote name='Aaryanna_Mom']Or I can explain that I'm a 50 year old parent who until last year never joined an online forum, has never read any of the Internet rules [nor do I intend to based on what I've heard] and will in all honesty admit that most if not all sarcasm goes completely over my head. I try to understand it but honestly I don't. It makes it hard for me to know when someone is being sarcastic or condescending or trying to be funny.

There's no need to apologize for your satire, I'm only sorry that I seem to fail to grasp it. It's not intentional I assure you.Don't do that, seriously, and again I can't tell if you're being sarcastic/funny/condescending or not. I sincerely hope you are, just trying to be a bit funny or sarcastic. Just as I hope you understand that part of my sadness over this whole thing is the lack of caring towards others who do struggle with depression and end up killing themselves. I can't and I hope I never do understand how the other mother could knowingly do what she did to the girl.

Anyway, I'm sorry for being harsh.[/QUOTE]

That's not harsh. But if you wanted it to be harsh, sure it's harsh. I've been used to it for a long time, and I'd rather "meet with no more respect than you exact".

Concerning my satire, however, I will even edit my entire post in order to reference and thoroughly explain every joke, describe every reference from an aphorism or paradox by Henry David Thoreau, Mark Twain, Ralph Waldo Emerson, and every other author or famous/infamous people that have made their way into this post, cite evidence of every claim, define every word term to be deemed jargon, distinguish the cliche "Internet memes" that were addressed, and conclusively analyze the entire post. If needed. Why choose satire? With it, I find it easier to expose the truth. But of course, that's obviously been proven to be a complete waste of everyone's time.

But who can say that I was not contradicting my thoughts in the first few posts and merely trying to aid the discussion by playing the role of the opposition, while I supported you? Stressing the fact that I could be one person and not the other, who might support this or that, I point out that not everyone on the Internet is what they say they are. That's partially why it's a horrible place, and why she should have realized that. Besides, if I am a condescending, saddening fool of nonconformity, but a disliked fake of conformity, then I do wonder how I'll survive online.

But anyways, in the end, it doesn't matter if I'm sarcastic, satirical, condescending, heartless, foolish, saddening, or whatever terrible, horrible, despicable creature I am in the end, as long as I acknowledge it. And I do. In the words of Benjamin Franklin, "love your enemy, for they tell you your faults," right? Because I have no relevance to that girl who committed suicide. And this topic is about the girl who committed suicide.

And okay, maybe I can't stand in your shoes because I'm not a mother and I don't plan on being one for my own avaricious and inconsiderate reasons, but like earlier stated, I acknowledge your standpoint, and everyone else's standpoints.

Actually, while I'm at it.

[quote]QFT?! This! Is!! !!![/quote]
Internet meme. If you've seen 300, you might understand it.

[quote]I'm not really sure,... But I think I know this. [b]Oh wait[/b][/quote]
A common use of sarcasm on the Internet.

[quote]Yeah. I'm sorry, I don't know anything about depression. After all, I've only studied depression for a semester in a Psychology college course. Actually, I partially lied ;D I'm still studying it. I'm sure the first thing on my OtakuBoards Christmas List might show something about one of my hobbies. But for a hobby, I'm sure ignorant, mediocre, and absolutely ridiculous in my knowledge of psychology. I'm probably reading something terribly wrong, like Wikipedia. Because I don't want to be misquoted, that was partial sarcasm ;O And there is partial sarcasm in a lot of my sentences, and if I need to colorize half of this response to tell you THIS IS SARCASM and THIS IS NOT SARCASM, then just tell me. But I do admit, you're probably way more informed than me about depression. Anyways.[/quote]

Like I said, I was partially lying. Of course, you're not going to know what part I was lying in. That college course was mediocre and it was only an Introduction to Psychology. That's why I'm saying I'm very ignorant in the subject. But then, what is sarcasm? And what isn't? Because you can't have a sarcastic tone on the Internet! Unless you're doing a voice conference session, haha. That's why I offered to distinguish my sarcasm. But I'll let you know this about me. If I EVER say I'm smarter or more sophisticated than someone else, than that there is sarcasm. And it's usually going to be along the lines of "lol i r so smrt loloolololooolool!!!!!11111" I mean, why lay an egg and think it's an asteroid?

But I'm still condescending, am I right?

Alas, alas.

[quote]Also, I'm going to smack you a bit here young lady. Follow my earlier suggestion and google this and read up on it, the girl got permission from her parents to join myspace, she got permission to add this fake "Josh" to her friends list. She talked to them about what was happening and they tried to tell her it would be all right. In other words, her parents were involved in her life and actively trying to help her.[/quote]
But likewise, does that really mean that she didn't have the choice to exit out of MySpace and live her life regularly? Or irregularly, depending on what you deem regular. Like I earlier stated, despite her depression, she could have made that decision to exit. And people say, "Well a lot of people choose to look into it more!" Well what about that other people that aren't included in that "a lot?" She could've chosen one of those options, but did she? No. And the thing is, no matter how much I click on Google, I'm not going to find all of the information I want. Because most of the time, the news says one thing, and another thing happens. Or while others are horribly suffering torture and emaciated from hunger, all we're concerned about are sensational crime scenes and celebrity justice, right?

That was partial sarcasm directed at some.

And a lot of the news has a sense of bias, even a little, which I'm very skeptical of. What ever happened to the good old days when everything was statistics and cold, hard facts? Oh wait, those don't make the money...

Before I can say anything supporting the child's side, I would like to know about all sides that affected the entire situation. And overall, there is hardly any information about the parent, compared to the massive redundant load of information about the girl. I'd like to look both ways before crossing the street.

[Rachmaninoff]

[quote name='Konata;798458]And this topic is about the girl who committed suicide.[/QUOTE]Though it's undeniable that the topic does cover the fact that the girl committed suicide, it's also undeniable that it's also about whether or not there should be consequences for cyber bullying. Not everyone is going to commit suicide obviously, but I do think cases like this do prove the point that bullying is something that needs to be addressed. Though again obviously something like that isn't very easy or even possible, but if there is proof then at the very least some form of punishment is warranted I believe.[quote name='Konata'']Before I can say anything supporting the child's side, I would like to know about all sides that affected the entire situation. And overall, there is hardly any information about the parent, compared to the massive redundant load of information about the girl. I'd like to look both ways before crossing the street.[/quote]If you look around, ignoring that the news is biased since to some degree that too is unavoidable, then there is news on the parent though it's sketchy at best and indicates that they are remaining silent as a result of the fall out from the woman's actions. So your view or analogy of looking both ways before crossing the street is a bit flawed in that you can look only at the moment one side has a bend that you can't see what is around it just yet.

I do think it's relevant to remember that first of all depression is hard to understand for anyone [something you've already addressed] and my limited understanding is that for some it can be a physical issue instead of one of 'weakness' though in this case we don't know which it is. Also, if she really did suffer from ADD, then unlike the rest of us, simply dropping something isn't so easy. Someone like that does not think the same way as other people do and I would imagine that might have come into play when it came to her ability or inability to simply walk away from what was going on.

In the end, the suicide isn't what worries me [since there really is no proof that it drove her to it] what worries me is that if this other parent really did harasses her in that manner, then she needs to be dealt with instead of being allowed to walk away without being required to own up to her mistake in harassing the girl.

[Aaryanna_Mom]

[quote name='Konata;798458]And okay, maybe I can't stand in your shoes because I'm not a mother and I don't plan on being one for my own avaricious and inconsiderate reasons, but like earlier stated, I acknowledge your standpoint, and everyone else's standpoints.[/QUOTE]That's what makes the case stand out more than anything, as a parent I find that hard to understand, that one would knowingly do that to someone's kid. So on some level that hits home to me since I find the idea reprehensible. [quote name='Konata'']No. And the thing is, no matter how much I click on Google, I'm not going to find all of the information I want. Because most of the time, the news says one thing, and another thing happens. Or while others are horribly suffering torture and emaciated from hunger, all we're concerned about are sensational crime scenes and celebrity justice, right?[/quote]Of course not, you would have to go directly to the source and even then you would be limited by what they would be willing to tell you and how their own perceptions limit what they remember and how they remember it. Also, even if others are suffering, or the truism of being able to find something worse just by looking exists, that doesn't make it any less important does it? If we start saying we don't care because there is something worse, we'll fall into the loop of never caring. I'm not saying you do that I'm just saying that even if you're being sarcastic, it doesn't make it true that people think that way.

I think your getting into the responsibility of the media as well as the truism that sensationalism sells but by no means do I think it's the only thing we are concerned with, it is the thing that we are concerned with because it is what is being reported. ;) And that for quite a bit of the population is no fault of their own, they read what is presented to them and of course like we are now here in this forum, they react to it.[quote name='Konata']And a lot of the news has a sense of bias, even a little, which I'm very skeptical of. What ever happened to the good old days when everything was statistics and cold, hard facts? Oh wait, those don't make the money...

Before I can say anything supporting the child's side, I would like to know about all sides that affected the entire situation. And overall, there is hardly any information about the parent, compared to the massive redundant load of information about the girl. I'd like to look both ways before crossing the street.[/QUOTE]Bias in the news is unavoidable, there's no getting around it and though being skeptical is good at the same time I think it's important to be careful that the same skepticism doesn't have you turning your back on things because of potential bias from the media. Also, what are these good old days where everything was statistics and cold, hard facts? I'd be curious as to just what days you are referring to since for as long as I have lived, I've been hearing that phrase from each generation, from the one before me, to my own to the newer generations such as yourself. In my experience, the good old days often have rose tinted glasses on them making them appear more perfect than they really were.

As for looking both ways, if there is any truth in the case that this girl was deceived and bullied. Regardless of the outcome bullying does need to be addressed especially when it descends to the level of outright harassment. If anything something like this should be prompting us to take a closer look into preventive measures. At least that is what I think. ;) And it doesn't necessarily require supporting the child to do that, since that's more along the lines of support all kids and adults who face being harassed or bullied.

[Retribution]

[font=Arial]Ladies and gentlemen, I watched the video on the article page and I must say, with the information I've gathered I think she really overreacted.

'Josh' was cited as having said "I'm not sure I want to be friends with you anymore because I hear you treat them badly." And then the video goes on to say "The rejection was devastating... the next day, Megan took her life". Within this same message, apparently he called her a bad person who everyone hated.

Perhaps I misread this, but it did not seem like prolonged harrassment. Honestly, even if the girl were depressed, something this minor should not be considered this massive and concentrated effort at forcing her to suicide. While it's truly tragic she took her life, I'm not really ready to get outraged at the mother if she only sent a "malicious" message.

Sensationalized news. Sigh.[/font]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='Retribution'][font=Arial]Sensationalized news. Sigh.[/font][/QUOTE]Look a little further Retri... If any of the other articles are correct, more than that happened. Though I'll agree that it's Sensationalized. And I'll agree with A_M that it's still sick that a parent would even send a "malicious" message.[/COLOR]

[Konata]

[quote name='Aaryanna_Mom']That's what makes the case stand out more than anything, as a parent I find that hard to understand, that one would knowingly do that to someone's kid. So on some level that hits home to me since I find the idea reprehensible.[/quote]
And as an Internet harasser and victim (it neutralizes!), I stand partially against the child, and partially the parent. Like stated earlier, I want to know about the parent before I can finally say "Oh, okay. The parent was more at fault." or "Well then in this case, the parent shouldn't be blamed as much because...", or something else.

[quote]Of course not, you would have to go directly to the source and even then you would be limited by what they would be willing to tell you and how their own perceptions limit what they remember and how they remember it.[/quote]
Exactly. Meaning that it's almost impossible to find the right news, unless you ARE part of that news. Even then, it's still difficult to find out what's the truth, and what's the lie.

[quote]Also, even if others are suffering, or the truism of being able to find something worse just by looking exists, that doesn't make it any less important does it? If we start saying we don't care because there is something worse, we'll fall into the loop of never caring. I'm not saying you do that I'm just saying that even if you're being sarcastic, it doesn't make it true that people think that way.[/quote]
Yet we ARE making things less important.

[quote]I think your getting into the responsibility of the media as well as the truism that sensationalism sells but by no means do I think it's the only thing we are concerned with, it is the thing that we are concerned with because it is what is being reported. ;) And that for quite a bit of the population is no fault of their own, they read what is presented to them and of course like we are now here in this forum, they react to it.Bias in the news is unavoidable, there's no getting around it and though being skeptical is good at the same time I think it's important to be careful that the same skepticism doesn't have you turning your back on things because of potential bias from the media.

[quote]Also, what are these good old days where everything was statistics and cold, hard facts? I'd be curious as to just what days you are referring to since for as long as I have lived, I've been hearing that phrase from each generation, from the one before me, to my own to the newer generations such as yourself. In my experience, the good old days often have rose tinted glasses on them making them appear more perfect than they really were.[/quote]
Well, when did anyone ever reveal true news without any intent of money?

[quote]As for looking both ways, if there is any truth in the case that this girl was deceived and bullied. Regardless of the outcome bullying does need to be addressed especially when it descends to the level of outright harassment. If anything something like this should be prompting us to take a closer look into preventive measures. At least that is what I think. ;) And it doesn't necessarily require supporting the child to do that, since that's more along the lines of support all kids and adults who face being harassed or bullied.[/QUOTE]
Preventive measures? See, I know Japan and some other countries are trying to do this, but I am very skeptical of this. Mainly because, like I said before, this case wasn't the only one. Internet harassment happens daily, hourly, secondly. And to me, these measures are probably going to be like the Prohibition Act.

[quote]And I'll agree with A_M that it's still sick that a parent would even send a "malicious" message.[/quote]

While I agree that it's sick and of course, a parent shouldn't have done it, that's just how the world goes. It's not like that parent was the first.

Short response, but school =D

[Retribution]

[quote name='indifference'][COLOR="Indigo"]Look a little further Retri... If any of the other articles are correct, more than that happened. Though I'll agree that it's Sensationalized. And I'll agree with A_M that it's still sick that a parent would even send a "malicious" message.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[font=Arial]Sorry, I'm just sick and tired of beautiful girls making the news because they die in a car crash or committed suicide.[/font]

[eleanor]

[quote name='Retribution'][font=Arial]Sorry, I'm just sick and tired of beautiful girls making the news because they die in a car crash or committed suicide.[/font][/QUOTE]

[font="trebuchet ms"] Don't forget white, too.[/font]

[Aaryanna]

[COLOR="goldenrod"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"][quote name='Konata']Preventive measures? See, I know Japan and some other countries are trying to do this, but I am very skeptical of this. Mainly because, like I said before, this case wasn't the only one. Internet harassment happens daily, hourly, secondly. And to me, these measures are probably going to be like the Prohibition Act.[/QUOTE]Preventive measures don't have to be limited to going after actual cases, they can include education to younger kids as well as parents to help them be more aware of what to watch out for while they are online. So even if there is no push to create laws for punishment, I think it would be beneficial for quite a few people to be educated on what to watch out for.

Sure those of us who grew up with computers might know better, and by grow up I mean actually spend a good amount of time online. But I'm sure there are lots of parents as well as kids who are clueless or at the very least aren't sure since they've never thought about it before. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[Allamorph]

[quote name='Aaryanna][COLOR="goldenrod"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Sure those of us who grew up with computers might know better....[/FONT'][/COLOR][/quote]
[FONT=Arial]I dunno about that one. See, I grew up with [I]people.[/I]

[I]*smack'd*[/I][/FONT]

[Konata]

[quote name='Aaryanna'][COLOR="goldenrod"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Preventive measures don't have to be limited to going after actual cases, they can include education to younger kids as well as parents to help them be more aware of what to watch out for while they are online. So even if there is no push to create laws for punishment, I think it would be beneficial for quite a few people to be educated on what to watch out for.

Sure those of us who grew up with computers might know better, and by grow up I mean actually spend a good amount of time online. But I'm sure there are lots of parents as well as kids who are clueless or at the very least aren't sure since they've never thought about it before. [/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

In this case though, the victim and her associates were educated on what to watch out for. Unless of course, you count the fact that she should've watched out for herself. =/ But then that's like having those little educational lectures about suicide, and that's already been happening.

No matter if they know what to watch out for, it won't improve much. Of course, the overprotective parents would probably ban their children from the Internet (or even send them to go to therapy and be electrocuted for "obsessing" over the Internet! (lol china)), and in the end, people would still be getting harassed, except more people would be banned from the Internet. And besides, it's not like Internet harassers are only harassing children and teenagers. It's bigger "fish" to fry, especially for those bigger organizations of "Internet bullies". Or anybody who TRIES to educate people on what to watch out for on the Internet.

[quote]Sorry, I'm just sick and tired of beautiful girls making the news because they die in a car crash or committed suicide.[/quote]
But unfortunately, that's what makes the most money ='(

That's partially why I'm so skeptical about it. Not only because I think she should've stayed off the Internet and lived her life, but honestly, her suicide won't affect me one bit. 1. Last time I checked, she didn't die for an honorable cause; she died because she was too weak to handle the Internet and she decided not to pull away from it. 2. There are too many cases that are almost identical to this (like someone suffering from depression that hangs himself because of Internet harassment by several adults and possibly parents; I wouldn't know because no one paid enough attention to it to actually bring it to the news headline with investigation. Or a girl who commits suicide after etc, etc, etc.) and no one pays attention to them. 3. It's getting way too much attention than it should be. I've noticed so many people are putting full blame on the parent and sensationalizing over the suicidal girl while not even knowing the full story. Because she [i]totally[/i] didn't have another way to escape from the harassment, right? Because there [i]wasn't[/i] a little red "X" button on the corner of her monitor screen, right?

And of course, her depression takes into play. But it's not like schizophrenia where homocide by the insane is not punishable by sentence. It could have impaired her sense, but she could have still had sense left to decide between staying and being harassed, or leaving.

[Aaryanna]

[COLOR="goldenrod"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"][quote name='Konata']In this case though, the victim and her associates were educated on what to watch out for. Unless of course, you count the fact that she should've watched out for herself. =/ But then that's like having those little educational lectures about suicide, and that's already been happening.

No matter if they know what to watch out for, it won't improve much. Of course, the overprotective parents would probably ban their children from the Internet (or even send them to go to therapy and be electrocuted for "obsessing" over the Internet! (lol china)), and in the end, people would still be getting harassed, except more people would be banned from the Internet. And besides, it's not like Internet harassers are only harassing children and teenagers. It's bigger "fish" to fry, especially for those bigger organizations of "Internet bullies". Or anybody who TRIES to educate people on what to watch out for on the Internet.[/QUOTE]I was talking more about what to do when it becomes more than just a simple case of someone being rude. From sexual predators to cyber bullying. Because sometimes, knowing how to get proof you're being harassed to hand over to someone like a moderator who can and will issue a warning is in many cases more than enough to get the person to leave you alone. :p

I speak from experience on that one since some idiot was convinced that I was someone at a different site with a similar name. Sure I could have simply deleted the pm's since my polite response explaining that they had the wrong person only made them more vicious and mean, but it was more fun to get screen shots of said pm's and let someone in charge give them a warning instead. This was at myOtaku account by the way, not here obviously. lol Still, I never heard from them again after that.

And before you say I could just ignore them... other than to delete the messages, at the moment there is no ignore function at myOtaku, so I didn't feel like constantly deleting the stupid pm's every day.

You and I may know how to deal with it, but I've got friends who don't even know how to get a screen shot, so obviously basic information, even if it's obvious to us would be useful for others. Oh like my mom for instance, I certainly know far more than she does when it comes to this kind of stuff. If it helps only a handful of people, then its worth it in my opinion. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[Konata]

[quote name='Aaryanna']]I was talking more about what to do when it becomes more than just a simple case of someone being rude. From sexual predators to cyber bullying. Because sometimes, knowing how to get proof you're being harassed to hand over to someone like a moderator who can and will issue a warning is in many cases more than enough to get the person to leave you alone. :p[/quote]
Okay, but that's like learning how to use the computer. It's already being done.

[quote]I speak from experience on that one since some idiot was convinced that I was someone at a different site with a similar name. Sure I could have simply deleted the pm's since my polite response explaining that they had the wrong person only made them more vicious and mean, but it was more fun to get screen shots of said pm's and let someone in charge give them a warning instead. This was at myOtaku account by the way, not here obviously. lol Still, I never heard from them again after that.

And before you say I could just ignore them... other than to delete the messages, at the moment there is no ignore function at myOtaku, so I didn't feel like constantly deleting the stupid pm's every day.[/quote]
But there are always cases in which learning how to deal with it physically won't help (or basic tools of the Internet/computer). What about those site's moderation or administration doesn't deal with harassment? As for me, when I was 11 or 12, I don't remember because it wasn't a big deal, I used to go on an interactive chatroom. Like, a place where you had your own little walking avatar, and you could walk/run around the town and talk to the users there. But of course, since it is a chatroom, there were a bunch of people that would insult me and stuff everyday. Oh, I was amazed at how many ways they could insult me too. Not only f-bombing and using whatever profanity that existed, but they also combined them into the phrases and stuff, haha. Since they could customize their avatars, they would usually make it so their character was naked, and then they would simulate rape with my character too. And of course, even though you could "block them" by making their avatar be replaced by a gray figure, they're still all over you and raping you. But in that case, I couldn't depend on administration because there wasn't much at all, haha (and it was a Japanese company). I just had to play the role of the harasser, and that's when they started calling me a hacker lol. Some of them even apologized later on ;P

[Aaryanna]

[COLOR="goldenrod"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"][quote name='Konata;798780]Okay, but that's like learning how to use the computer. It's already being done.[/QUOTE]Not until it's been done. :p Using a computer doesn't automatically mean you have full knowledge of every aspect of said computer. [quote name='Konata'']But there are always cases in which learning how to deal with it physically won't help (or basic tools of the Internet/computer). What about those site's moderation or administration doesn't deal with harassment? [/quote]But there are cases where it does, that's the point. ^_~ And for those sites that don't have help, that's where the advice on going elsewhere comes into play.

Like I said, even if it's obvious, not everyone is intimately familiar with things, that's why manuals are written, instruction pamphlets come with new purchases and why even simple information can be useful. Whether or not it's been done before or not isn't the point, there are lots of new kids getting online, new people using a computer who haven't before because they either weren't old enough or couldn't afford it.

I'm not saying it's a perfect solution, but I am saying that just because there will be times it won't help isn't a reason to think it can't help. And I know you're not saying that, I'm just saying that I am positive such information would be useful to people. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[Konata]

[quote name='Aaryanna'][COLOR="goldenrod"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Not until it's been done. :p Using a computer doesn't automatically mean you have full knowledge of every aspect of said computer. But there are cases where it does, that's the point. ^_~ And for those sites that don't have help, that's where the advice on going elsewhere comes into play.

Like I said, even if it's obvious, not everyone is intimately familiar with things, that's why manuals are written, instruction pamphlets come with new purchases and why even simple information can be useful. Whether or not it's been done before or not isn't the point, there are lots of new kids getting online, new people using a computer who haven't before because they either weren't old enough or couldn't afford it.

I'm not saying it's a perfect solution, but I am saying that just because there will be times it won't help isn't a reason to think it can't help. And I know you're not saying that, I'm just saying that I am positive such information would be useful to people. [/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

I don't really see the point because it's being done. As in, these manuals, classes, etc, are already being delivered, taken, and what not.

[Aaryanna]

[COLOR="goldenrod"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"][quote name='Konata']I don't really see the point because it's being done. As in, these manuals, classes, etc, are already being delivered, taken, and what not.[/QUOTE]Perhaps you could show me the manual for common issues or problems on the Internet? I've yet to see one which is why I mentioned it. I think you're not understanding me here, when you buy a new computer, especially if it's your first one, there is no disk with tips on what to look for when it comes to bullying, online predators or, things like that. It's assumed that you already know this stuff.

I think you are failing to see my point here and assuming that everyone knows where to go online to find the type of information I'm talking about. I also think you're assuming that since it's obvious to you, it therefore must be obvious to everyone else too. And yet there are sites like this: [URL="http://www.besafeonline.org/English/bullying_online.htm"][U]Click[/U][/URL] I'm saying that gathering information like that and making it standard with say getting Internet service or getting a new computer could be a good thing. ;D[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Konata]

[quote name='Aaryanna'][COLOR="goldenrod"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Perhaps you could show me the manual for common issues or problems on the Internet?[/quote]

[u][url=http://www.learnthenet.com/english/html/11parent.htm]The Internet Owner's Manual > Excerpts from [i]The Children's Partnership's Parents' Guide to the Information Superhighway[/i][/url][/u]

On a serious note, like I said before, what you're addressing (learning how to printscreen to get proof, contacting administration, etc) is a simple equation of Computer/Internet Basics + Common Sense + Performing the action. There are introductory and advanced classes for the Internet and computers, as well as keyboarding. There are sites like the one above that inform of harassment and how one can prevent it. There is usually a manual that comes with the computer that one buys, which should explain the basics of their computer. There are books about harassment specifically, or those typical "Dummy's Guide to (computer-related concept)". And that's where Part Two comes in. Common sense. But one needs common sense for everything, practically. Lastly, the third part of the equation, is performing the action, and it's all up to that person to do whatever one wishes to do. And those actions are usually easy. Unless it's much too hard to press the "PrtScrn" button, Ctrl+V, Ctrl+S, and upload. Well, at least, it's not painstakingly hard for me. By this, I mean literally pushing the buttons. If they don't know the knowledge for it, then they should've done any of the above.

[quote]I think you are failing to see my point here and assuming that everyone knows where to go online to find the type of information I'm talking about.[/quote]
So they don't know how to
1. Go to Google, Yahoo!, AskJeeves, whatever search engine is there
2. Go to a bookstore
3. Read their computer manual
4. Read their Internet manual
5. Ask a friend who does go on the Internet, unless of course that person either does not have a friend who goes on the Internet and knows the basic procedures, or does not have any friends at all
6. Go to a computer, keyboarding, or Internet class
7. Use common sense
8. Press the X button in the corner of the screen if they don't know how to do any of the above
9. Unplug the computer if they don't know how to push the X button in the corner of the screen
10. Turn around the computer screen and never look at it again if they don't know how to unplug the computer

[quote]I also think you're assuming that since it's obvious to you, it therefore must be obvious to everyone else too.[/quote]
Because I find it obvious that Mizuho Inada was most likely suffering from schizophrenia due to her constant delusions of Ahura Mazda and her belief that she and her "Lorela Lausasse Kaori" were magical warriors, granted powers by their God of Light, it therefore must be obvious to everyone else too, right?

I don't assume everyone knows what I should know. But if they don't know how to use a computer, then they shouldn't use it. And that is common sense. With the amount of information they have stored in society, it only takes a simple phone call or trip to the library or bookstore to learn more about combatting internet harassment. You know, pick up the [i]Cyberstalking: Harassment in the Internet Age and How to Protect Your Family[/i], [i] No Room for Bullies: From the Classroom to Cyberspace[/i], and whatever there is. They don't necessarily have to know how to type [url]http://www.google.com[/url] in order to find their information. And if they don't know how to travel to a library or bookstore, then why not call an technologically educated acquaintance? And if they don't have any, why not ... etc.

[quote]And yet there are sites like this: [URL="http://www.besafeonline.org/English/bullying_online.htm"][U]Click[/U][/URL] I'm saying that gathering information like that and making it standard with say getting Internet service or getting a new computer could be a good thing. [/QUOTE]
Doesn't that contradict your argument a bit

[Retribution]

[quote name='Lunox'][font="trebuchet ms"] Don't forget white, too.[/font][/QUOTE]
[font=Arial]Oh, right, how could I forget?

Right, right, it's a tragedy that she killed herself or whatever.

What about news that [i]actually matters[/i]?[/font]