Legalization of Marijuana

[Rachmaninoff]

[quote name='The13thMan;798770][COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic] I think it's important to try things before you go making claims about them. You claimed that you would never be interested in doing marijuana when you have no idea what it would be like. This, to me, is foolish.[B] /Snip/ [/B]Of course... that may be a false presumption on my part. Let me ask this question, have you ever been high? If so then i take back what i said. And i do mean this sincerely. [/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]I think it?s important to not try things that are illegal. Or to go around telling me or anyone else that they should give it a try. Just as I think it?s foolish to assume that one has to have experienced something to know they have no interest. I would have thought it was obvious that I do not do illegal drugs. [QUOTE=The13thMan'][COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]In my opinion, those "some people" are arrogant to assume that sort of fun does not appeal to them when they have little to no idea what that fun is like. If those people do know what being high or getting drunk is like and decide it's not for them then there is no arrogance to be observed. I say that purely to clarify. I've tried both and have realized that they're only good on occasion. I would never want to get high or drunk regularly. Once every few weeks is plenty for me.

Surely there are activities that are both relaxing and fun that don't involve getting drunk or high... but you don't get drunk or high! That's sorta the whole point here. I'm surprised you missed that... =/[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]Just as I think it?s arrogant to assume one has to try something that is illegal in order to know if it would appeal to them. I?ve no interest in getting high when the fallout is obvious. Getting caught and fired from your job for one, getting arrested by the police, being mentally and physically affected when you are trying to do what I would, practice playing. You?re totally missing the point in that going off on a tangent about experience being necessary to understand just how stupid illegal drugs can be isn?t required.[quote name='The13thMan;798770][COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]You're absolutely right here. If you don't want to get high or drunk then i commend you for staying above the influence. It really is great for you. But i'm just going to say, from a person that has tried those things, go ahead and give it a shot at least once. It's worth the experience. And afterwards you can go and do your other super fun activities that don't involve getting high or drunk. But at least you will have the experience for later use. =D [/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]And I?m saying that telling others to do something illegal is not good and far from appropriate. It is not worth the experience to tell someone to do something that can land them in a lot of trouble. Stop trying to make trying marijuana something that everyone should do because that?s utter BS. They don?t need the experience for later use, ever.[QUOTE=The13thMan'][COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]Shoot... i just went back and read your first post on this subject. I missed it the first time through. I can see now why you wouldn't be interested in trying it. Now, that's not to say my points are now invalid, they're still quite valid with the premises i were aware of at the time of writing them. I still think you should try it. But given your previous experience with your friends and pot i would say just try it once. Try it to understand better what was going on. Don't try it a second time because of your experience with your friends. Believe me, one time won't get you hooked. Especially with all of the negative experience you've had with your friends.

That said, i've had negative experience with friends and family abusing drugs too. This is why i see it as such a huge responsibility when i partake in such forms of...intoxication. I do not under any circumstances go driving while drunk or high. I don't do a lot of things. I make sure somebody knows what i'm doing and to have my back while i'm doing it. I make sure not to get too high or too drunk. Basically, i do everything in my power not to abuse these drugs. This is what i recommend to anyone who's interested.

Well... i wrote a lot and now i'm sleepy. Gooooodnight. [/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]It does help to actually read what people have said before responding to their latest post. lol Still I?m going to say it again. Stop with the bit on you should try it. It?s illegal and attempting to push drug use is not acceptable here. That kind of advice about how one won?t get hooked from one time is also utter BS as you are hardly an expert on the subject.

If you really felt responsible you?d quit with the silly push of insisting I should try it once.[quote name='The13thMan'][COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]I don't appreciate the lecture. Keep it to yourself next time.

Also, you're mistaken. I'm not encouraging people use marijuana illegally, only use it. Go fly to Amsterdam if you're so concerned with the law. Don't make presumptions on my statements and continue to scold me for them.

Once again, Y'all a bunch a squares.

Ooo, i'm mean. =D[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]That?s enough. If you weren?t so busy pushing how one should try it or making the unbelievably ignorant claim that you aren?t encouraging someone to use marijuana illegally then you wouldn?t have required the lecture to knock it off. So I expect you to drop the attitude and let it go like you were asked. It is illegal, and we don?t need you telling me or anyone else they should try it. It?s been said already, but OtakuBoards is not the platform for promoting illegal drug use. And further arguments or posts along that line will be deleted.

[Odin M Yggdrasi]

The13thMan is overlooking a very important point that completely kills his arguement about not knocking it untill you try it.

People have tried it, and made public what it is like. Also, there are far more negative reports from both people who have used it and researchers who have studied it than positive reports from users and researchers- which makes it safe to assume (without trying it) that it is bad and is not even worth trying.

I would like to think that humanity has not degraded significantly enough to be unable to learn from the experiences of others who have tried it, and realize that the numbers produced by the research teams who can study it's effects far better than a stoner with a joint in hand are plenty accurate for people to rely on.

I stand by what I said before, both Marijuana and Tobacco should be illegal globally, and should remain illegal. Alcohol should also be better regulated, since unfortunately while it is a substance that responsible usage of does not hurt anyone too many people are not responsible enough for it to remain unregulated.

I hate laws that protect stupid people from themselves, but sometimes you have to have them, and for good reason.

And I am 20- Been to Canada twice where I could have legally bought alcohol. Never had a drop of alcohol outside of church wine on christmas and easter (which isn't even real wine) or a single flake of tobacco. That doesn't stop me from having a grand old time, many times even better than someone who does drink or smoke or get high can have.

Seriously, if you want a rush try taking up sports, or more 'extreme' activities like stunt biking or mountain climbing

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]Guys, I do think it's reasonable to talk about your own experience (since experience obviously plays a role in how people form a conclusion about this issue), but it's probably not necessary to encourage people to do something illegal. I don't think it will really influence anyone here, but you know, you're not the one who has to answer to a member's parent (whereas I do).

We're still part of a network that has a lot of young members and although I'm pretty lenient on what we can discuss here - since I do believe that ideas generally don't harm anyone - I also think we need to be responsible for the sake of those who have their kids posting here and who have come to trust the community. I wouldn't want to betray that trust, which I'm sure you can understand. That has nothing to do with being squares, it's about being adults.[/font]

[quote name='The13thMan']I don't appreciate the lecture. Keep it to yourself next time.[/quote]

[font=franklin gothic medium]Don't disrespect the staff when they're trying to do their jobs, okay? Unlike you, SunfallE is responsible for all members in her area - including the younger ones. If you speak to a staff member like that again, you won't be welcome back to OtakuBoards. It's just not necessary, no matter what your views on the subject are.[/font]

[John]

You know what else they have no reason to legalize? Silly walks. They're ridiculous! They make you look silly, you run the risk of bumping into people, they're extremely inefficient, and all those contortions can't be good for your joints. Silly walks are so silly that we have no reason to make them legal; that's why they're not.

OH WAIT.

[The Spectacular Professor]

Alright, I'm going to make one final point and leave it at that. All who say it should be legal because we shouldn't need to protect people from themselves: Suicide. Why is that illegal?


I'll leave you to mull over that.

[AzureWolf]

[quote name='Aceburner']All who say it should be legal because we shouldn't need to protect people from themselves: Suicide. Why is that illegal?[/QUOTE]I didn't know suicide's illegal... what's the (non-Christian) punishment? 10 years in prison? O_o

Frankly, making suicide illegal is kinda dumb. We live in a dumb country. That's why I prefer Canada, hehe.

[Allamorph]

[quote name='AzureWolf']Frankly, making suicide illegal is kinda dumb.[/quote]
[FONT=Arial]Unfortunately, this is true. I mean, not to be callous, but you can't punish dead person.

I think it's [I]attempting[/I] suicide that's illegal, but still: what do you do to someone who's just tried to kill themselves? Punishment's liable to make them try to succeed on the next go-round, which is why we have counseling centers instead. (Don't knock 'em; they work sometimes, and that's good enough for me.)[/FONT]

[The13thMan]

[quote name='Aaryanna'][COLOR="goldenrod"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Don't be stupid. You can't tell someone to only use it without it being illegal if they live in a country like the US were it [B]actually is illegal.[/B] Keep your stupid recommendations about using it to yourself. That's the point, telling someone to try it is encouraging them to do something[B] ILLEGAL[/B]. And OtakuBoards is [B]not[/B] the place for that, period.

Don't continue to be such an idiot with your presumptions that one has to have tried something before they can disagree with it. [/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]Shoot, you didn't have to go and be so mean about it. =( That kinda hurt my feelings.

It bothers me that i'm not allowed to have this opinion here. ::scratches head:: I recommended people try things before they judge them, and i also recommended them to try marijuana specifically. Now, yes, i do realize it's illegal in the US and people shouldn't do illegal things (or that's my official statement, anyways). But c'mon! If i'm late for class, i'll speed. If i'm pissed at a guy for threatening my family i'll beat the pulp out of 'im. Things are illegal for reasons, and if you can do something without messing those "reasons" up then i say go for it (this is an opinion, not a suggestion). But i'm not here to argue that. And you can disagree all you want with it. But be civil! Don't call me stupid for having an opinion. That [B]is [/B]stupid.

Another thing, how the heck am i supposed to know where somebody lives? I'm pretty sure there are a good amount of international OBers here. And shoot, if somebody's dumb enough to listen to me and do something illegal then it's their own fault if they get caught.

Use your brain, kids.

I actually didn't ever say that you have to try something to be against it. Or at least i don't think i did. ...::shrug:: I can't be held accountable for what i say! Haha. But let me clarify. I think that you shouldn't have a finite opinion on something when you don't have all the facts. There's information gained from experiencing something first hand that no amount of second hand information can ever give you. Marijuana is a good example of this actually. But don't get me wrong, i realize people will have opinions with less than all the facts, and that's fine! I have plenty of opinions that are based on less than the optimal amount of information. And when given the chance i will try to learn more to further refine my opinion. This is why i suggest those that have not tried marijuana to try it. I won't restrict it to marijuana either. But at the same time, i don't condone doing anything illegal. Yes, i can do that. It's called a disclaimer. =D

After reading James's post i feel somewhat bad for suggesting the use of marijuana. I typically forget we've got such a young audience here at OB (until i read some posts). So, kids, don't do illegal things. It's...uh, illegal. There are very serious consequences. But, most important, use your better judgment.

To Rachmaninoff... uh, i don't actually see anything worth replying to in your post beyond this. Don't take that as an insult, i don't mean it that way. I just mean that if there was anything i already addressed it with my response to Aaryanna.

And, Odin, first hand experience trumps second and third hand any day. In science when an experiment is carried out the data is observed and written down. Everyone is very capable of reading what the scientists involved in the experiment wrote down, and that's fine. But then they carry out the experiments for themselves. Then they do it again and again. Then college students come to chem 101 and carry them out, then high school students and anybody interested in science do as well. This is because first hand experience is invaluable. I take that same stance on a lot of things, marijuana (and other illegal drugs) are some of those things. So how's my argument stand up now?

Another thing, care to back up your claims with some [B]relevant [/B]research?

And finally i just want to state again for the young and impressionable. Doing illegal things is illegal. And if you get caught...then you'll probably be in a good amount of trouble. So, be smart.
[/FONT][/COLOR]

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]Thanks for the advice to youngsters. ~_^

Just to be clear, nobody is saying you can't have an opinion. Your view that people shouldn't "knock it 'till they try it" has some validity, but having said that, people can still form opinions on a drug based on what they've read...trying it isn't necessarily going to change the objective facts.

I do think your view is a valid one, I just think we need to recognise that we have to be a bit responsible when it comes to some of this stuff, especially with much younger members around.

Having said that I have no interest in censoring people's views - if you have a positive view about marijuana you're more than welcome to post your side of the story. After all, we can't have a discussion with only one side, lol.[/font]

[Odin M Yggdrasi]

[quote name='Allamorph'][FONT=Arial]I think it's [I]attempting[/I] suicide that's illegal, but still: what do you do to someone who's just tried to kill themselves? Punishment's liable to make them try to succeed on the next go-round, which is why we have counseling centers instead. (Don't knock 'em; they work sometimes, and that's good enough for me.)[/FONT][/QUOTE]

You put them in a straitjacket and send them to a psychiatric center, which is as close to jail as you can get without handcuffs. They keep them in a padded cell and handled like dogs for roughly three days before being released if the new medications prove effective. Not a pretty place by any means.

Interestingly enough, the same place that handles the suicide cases also was processing the teenage potheads, drinkers, and smokers- at least the ones that had been caught and were undergoing rehab.

[John]

[quote name='Aceburner']Alright, I'm going to make one final point and leave it at that. All who say it should be legal because we shouldn't need to protect people from themselves: Suicide. Why is that illegal?


I'll leave you to mull over that.[/quote] Who cares why suicide's illegal, because it shouldn't be. Just like marijuana shouldn't be. Sheesh, was that so hard?

[eleanor]

[quote name='Aceburner']Alright, I'm going to make one final point and leave it at that. All who say it should be legal because we shouldn't need to protect people from themselves: Suicide. Why is that illegal?


I'll leave you to mull over that.[/QUOTE]

[font="trebuchet ms"] Who cares? Is your life dramatically different because marijuana is illegal? It's not like it's impossible to find pot because it's illegal, so I don't see the big deal here. [/font]

[Gavin]

[quote name='Lunox'][font="trebuchet ms"] Who cares? Is your life dramatically different because marijuana is illegal? It's not like it's impossible to find pot because it's illegal, so I don't see the big deal here. [/font][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Quoted for truth, go to a local high school or college and you won't have any trouble getting some.[/SIZE]

[Boo]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Quoted for truth, go to a local high school or college and you won't have any trouble getting some.[/SIZE][/QUOTE][size=1]Or try one of your local coffee shops! *nod*

... Wait, or is that just the Netherlands again?[/size]

[Retribution]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Quoted for truth, go to a local high school or college and you won't have any trouble getting some.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
[font=Arial]But the debate isn't over the [i]ability[/i] to smoke up, it's over not going to jail if you have weed on your person, which is absolutely ridiculous.

I'll be frank for a moment. I find those who want to make decisions for others truly annoying. Well, annoying doesn't grasp the enormity of the feeling. It's people like that in this nation who want abortion illegal, who want gay marriage illegal, who want to keep watch of you and tap your phone [i]all for your safety[/i]. Sure, this is a slippery slope (and yes, I'm aware it's a logical fallacy) but it's people like that who keep legislating other people's lives. I hate it.

The way I see it, if you want to keep marijuana illegal, you should also support prohibition and making cigarettes illegal. Both are detrimental to ones health. Both "touch other people's lives" in a negative way. Both are responsible for plenty of ill intent. Both serve no real purpose aside from having fun in a way that is dangerous for your health.

But frankly, I figure if you want to smoke, go right ahead. If you're an adult, you should decide what you do with your life. I figure if you want a beer, go for it. Do it all responsibly. I don't want a cop to arrest a stoner, to make the legal system even more bogged down with totally useless cases when greater things are at hand.

Personally, I'm not too big on pot. But so long as it doesn't have catastrophically negative effects on communities like cocaine does, I honesty don't care if a college kid wants to get blazed and neglect his studies.

On an unrelated note, I hate that you can die for your country at 18, but can't have a beer or a joint at that point. ****ing conservatives.

[/rant][/font]

[Gavin]

[quote name='Boo'][size=1]Or try one of your local coffee shops! *nod*

... Wait, or is that just the Netherlands again?[/size][/QUOTE]

[size=1]Heh still Holland you crazy Dutch bastard, but that's why we love you ;)[/size]

[quote name='Retribution'][font=Arial]But the debate isn't over the [i]ability[/i] to smoke up, it's over not going to jail if you have weed on your person, which is absolutely ridiculous.[/font][/QUOTE]

[size=1]Well both are intertwined from what I see, obviously you have to be able to get the stuff in order to be able to be caught with it. The fact that cannabis a lot easier to get, relatively speaking, than other drugs makes that fact even more important when people talk about it being illegal.[/size]

[quote name='Retribution'][font=Arial]I'll be frank for a moment. I find those who want to make decisions for others truly annoying. Well, annoying doesn't grasp the enormity of the feeling. It's people like that in this nation who want abortion illegal, who want gay marriage illegal, who want to keep watch of you and tap your phone [i]all for your safety[/i]. Sure, this is a slippery slope (and yes, I'm aware it's a logical fallacy) but it's people like that who keep legislating other people's lives. I hate it.

The way I see it, if you want to keep marijuana illegal, you should also support prohibition and making cigarettes illegal. Both are detrimental to ones health. Both "touch other people's lives" in a negative way. Both are responsible for plenty of ill intent. Both serve no real purpose aside from having fun in a way that is dangerous for your health.

But frankly, I figure if you want to smoke, go right ahead. If you're an adult, you should decide what you do with your life. I figure if you want a beer, go for it. Do it all responsibly. I don't want a cop to arrest a stoner, to make the legal system even more bogged down with totally useless cases when greater things are at hand.

Personally, I'm not too big on pot. But so long as it doesn't have catastrophically negative effects on communities like cocaine does, I honesty don't care if a college kid wants to get blazed and neglect his studies.[/font][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]I understand where you're coming from Alex, but honestly this whole "I don't like being told what I can and can't do" sounds honestly a bit, and I'm hesitant to use the word, but it sounds childish to me. I accept this is just a rant and you mightn?t actually have meant it that way, but it?s just how it sounded as I read it. I have already said in this thread that I support prohibition and a full ban on tobacco products for the reasons you?ve outlined above, they?re dangerous and serve no purpose.

You say that legalising cannabis will make the courts less clogged, but what happens if say a drug addict doesn?t have enough money to walk into a pharmacy and buy his supply and he goes out and mugs someone to pay for it ? It?s a common occurrence now for addicts to commit crimes to pay for their habit, in getting them early for possession, maybe more serious crimes are being stopped. At least that?s just my thoughts.[/SIZE]

[John]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE=1]I have already said in this thread that I support prohibition and a full ban on tobacco products for the reasons you?ve outlined above, they?re dangerous and serve no purpose.[/SIZE][/quote] Oh, so you agree with me that we should ban all things that have no purpose? See my earlier post on silly walks and join the cause, brother!

[Retribution]

[quote name='Gavin'][size=1]Well both are intertwined from what I see, obviously you have to be able to get the stuff in order to be able to be caught with it. The fact that cannabis a lot easier to get, relatively speaking, than other drugs makes that fact even more important when people talk about it being illegal.[/size][/QUOTE]
[font=Arial]Ease of purchase has absolutely nothing to do with our debate on its legality. I'm more or less speaking on this topic based upon principle. I know pot is extremely easy to come by, but I disagree with the idea that you can get a jail sentence for possession.

[QUOTE][SIZE="1"]I understand where you're coming from Alex, but honestly this whole "I don't like being told what I can and can't do" sounds honestly a bit, and I'm hesitant to use the word, but it sounds childish to me. I accept this is just a rant and you mightn?t actually have meant it that way, but it?s just how it sounded as I read it. I have already said in this thread that I support prohibition and a full ban on tobacco products for the reasons you?ve outlined above, they?re dangerous and serve no purpose.[/size][/QUOTE]
Actually, if you look slightly deeper, you'll see that some (perhaps not all) of my concerns are legitimate, not some angst-ridden teenage moanfest. But if you read it as such, I'm not worried.

Do explain to me how the desire for self-determination is childish, especially within this context.

[QUOTE][SIZE=1]You say that legalising cannabis will make the courts less clogged, but what happens if say a drug addict doesn?t have enough money to walk into a pharmacy and buy his supply and he goes out and mugs someone to pay for it ? It?s a common occurrence now for addicts to commit crimes to pay for their habit, in getting them early for possession, maybe more serious crimes are being stopped. At least that?s just my thoughts.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
You can say the same for alcohol, which by the way, is in all likelihood more addictive than pot. And last I checked, alcohol-dependency motivated robbery isn't rampant. This holds no water.

As for banning things that serve no purpose, it is perhaps the weakest argument one could make for maintaining the marijuana law. When applied to other scenarios, I'm sure you'll find yourself standing on sandy ground.[/font]

[Andrew]

[size=1]Stoners get stoned, regardless of the law. Who really cares?[/size]

[Gavin]

[quote name='Retribution'][font=Arial]Ease of purchase has absolutely nothing to do with our debate on its legality. I'm more or less speaking on this topic based upon principle. I know pot is extremely easy to come by, but I disagree with the idea that you can get a jail sentence for possession.[/font][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]For me it would depend on the amount in possession. Obviously a person with a few grams of the stuff for their own personal use should not be given the same kind of sentense as the dealer with a couple of kilos in his car. To my knowledge, at least here in Ireland, prison time is more so given to dealers than addicts, it's usually only multiple instances of possession gets you time for the latter.

I'm not sure why you disagree with giving possession a prison sentence, but in my own case I believe that for the addict, doing so with not help them overcome their addiction, that and prisons are notoriously easy for getting drugs in, which sort of defeats the purpose.[/SIZE]

[quote name='Retribution'][font=Arial]Actually, if you look slightly deeper, you'll see that some (perhaps not all) of my concerns are legitimate, not some angst-ridden teenage moanfest. But if you read it as such, I'm not worried.

Do explain to me how the desire for self-determination is childish, especially within this context.[/font][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Your overriding concern Alex has been that you disagree with other people deciding on what you can and cannot do after you?ve become an adult, you call that self-determination, I personally think it sounds childish because it means you don?t like being told what you?re allowed do. Maybe I?m wrong, as I said, it?s just how I read it.

That said, particularly within this context I see your desire to legalise a harmful, addictive substance out of this idea of self-determination, even if it causes them harm to be immature because it would be ?impugning on their private lives? and that?s not a good enough reason to let someone harm themselves in my mind.

If you go back and reread the thread, note how nearly everyone who actually is a legal adult has disagreed with the legalisation of marijuana. It seems the ?adults? who you?re trying to do this for disagree with you.[/SIZE]

[quote name='Retribution'][font=Arial]You can say the same for alcohol, which by the way, is in all likelihood more addictive than pot. And last I checked, alcohol-dependency motivated robbery isn't rampant. This holds no water.

As for banning things that serve no purpose, it is perhaps the weakest argument one could make for maintaining the marijuana law. When applied to other scenarios, I'm sure you'll find yourself standing on sandy ground.[/font][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug-related_crime[/url]

Afraid Wiki seems to agree with me. It is a well known fact Alex, whether or not you want to accept it that addicts are willing to go to extreme lengths to feed their habit, due to the psychological effects of addiction on behaviour. I do not believe this is the same for alcoholism as to memory I have never heard of an alcohol dependency-motivated crime.

As for the banning things that serve no purpose, reread the post, I said dangerous things that serve no purpose, there is a difference.

Anyway, we?re getting into the same cycle you and I seem perversely required to do in every thread in which we disagree, let?s just skip on to the part where we agree to disagree.[/SIZE]

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="77656"]Gavin, anybody can put somehting into wikipedia, so that soarce isn't legitimite. I could say that I'm and 28 year old livin inCalifornia on wikipedia, when I'm just a minor living in upstate New York.

So Gavin, you failed oon that part.[/COLOR]

[The Spectacular Professor]

[quote name='Premonition'][COLOR="77656"]Gavin, anybody can put somehting into wikipedia, so that soarce isn't legitimite. I could say that I'm and 28 year old livin inCalifornia on wikipedia, when I'm just a minor living in upstate New York.

So Gavin, you failed oon that part.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

And it'd get deleted, because it's an article about someone who nobody knows who has had as of yet no lasting effect on the world.

What, you don't think they regulate wikipedia?

[DeathKnight]

[quote name='Premonition'][COLOR="77656"]Gavin, anybody can put somehting into wikipedia, so that soarce isn't legitimite. I could say that I'm and 28 year old livin inCalifornia on wikipedia, when I'm just a minor living in upstate New York.

So Gavin, you failed oon that part.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[color=crimson]I know, that [url=http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/dcf/duc.htm]United States Department of Justice[/url] source that says the exact same thing as the Wikipedia article could have come from anywhere, Gavin.

I expected more from you, and you fell far short of that.[/color]

[Gavin]

[quote name='DeathKnight'][color=crimson]I know, that [url=http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/dcf/duc.htm]United States Department of Justice[/url] source that says the exact same thing as the Wikipedia article could have come from anywhere, Gavin.

I expected more from you, and you fell far short of that.[/color][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Meh, I assumed that the DOJ statistics were correct, if they're wrong blame it on my lack of cynicism when it comes to government statistics, the Irish ones are usually pretty accurate.[/SIZE]

[Aberinkula]

[quote name='Aceburner']And it'd get deleted, because it's an article about someone who nobody knows who has had as of yet no lasting effect on the world.

What, you don't think they regulate wikipedia?[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="77656"]I know this Ace. Some places you aren't able to use it for reports because of false information and whatnot. Adn the Librarian's son at school put himself as a pro-cricket player living in Norfolk NY. But that's not deleted, so they must not regulate it well[/COLOR]