Legalization of Marijuana

[The13thMan]

[quote name='Boo'][size=1]She called you stupid. Pushing your opinion is stupid. You pushed your opinion. She called you stupid.

That was as inappropriate as putting your dirty clothing in a washing machine. There are enough members here on OtakuBoards who can be much more inappropriate for you if you want.

And seriously, nobody is going to convince another of anything in this thread. Facts are:
[list][*]Marijuana is legal in the Netherlands and the Netherlands are cool + if marijuana were legal in the Unites States of America they would never be as cool as the Netherlands = The USA won't be cool regardless of what they do with marijuana.
[*]Marijuana stinks.
[*]Your mom doesn't want you to smoke marijuana.[/list]
All the reasons necessary to stop trying. I'd recommend you to move to the Netherlands to smoke your pot here, but I won't.[/size][/QUOTE]

[FONT="Century Gothic"][COLOR="DarkOrange"]Ooo, ok. Thanks for the recap. Haha. I was saying i didn't appreciate it. Certainly she has the right to say it, i just don't like it.

Besiiiides, you're [I]stupid[/I]. :smirk:;)

And we've (USA, USA!) been trying to be cool ever since the whole war thingy... ya know, the one with Britain back in the day. =P

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[Gavin]

[quote name='The13thMan'][COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]You're basically arguing that if a lot of people are in harm of a substance from a personal choice that the government should intervene. I, like Retribution, have to disagree with you here. I believe very strongly that people should be able to make the decisions for themselves. It's part of having freedom, the choice to do good or bad. The smart people make the smart choices and the dumb make the dumb ones. And through natural selection and the spreading of good information we can grow as a species. Controlling us does nothing to help us. I can't help but to compare people who deal with too much government control to house cats spoiled by the security of the house. When they face the real world they both suffer. Neither grow for the better.

I keep thinking to the book of 1984. There government wasn't formed over night, it was a long and slow process. I can't help but think that maybe we're going down the wrong path. I hope to god we aren't. [/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Well seeing as neither of us is going to change our opinions on the subject, continually debating it really isn't going to do any good. I feel, as I've said already that when a particular activity threatens the health of many citizens of a country then the government has a right to intervene with a certain level of control, the particular level of which is up to the ministers themselves to decide. You disagree with that, and that's fair enough as we're just having a discussion and not anarchists planning to bring down governments.

As for the possibility of a 1984 style world, I think people are smart enough to realise that's happening before we get to that point of government control. Case in point, Hugo Chavez's recent political defeat.[/SIZE]

[Charles]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]I've said already that when a particular activity threatens the health of many citizens of a country then the government has a right to intervene with a certain level of control, the particular level of which is up to the ministers themselves to decide.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

I suppose they had better close down the fast food industry ASAP then.

[The13thMan]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Well seeing as neither of us is going to change our opinions on the subject, continually debating it really isn't going to do any good. I feel, as I've said already that when a particular activity threatens the health of many citizens of a country then the government has a right to intervene with a certain level of control, the particular level of which is up to the ministers themselves to decide. You disagree with that, and that's fair enough as we're just having a discussion and not anarchists planning to bring down governments.

As for the possibility of a 1984 style world, I think people are smart enough to realise that's happening before we get to that point of government control. Case in point, Hugo Chavez's recent political defeat.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

[COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]I think realistically speaking you're right, we probably won't change our opinions and we probably won't end up in an Orwellian type government as in 1984. But that to me isn't reason enough to stop debating. I like to think that people are still open minded and rational enough to change our opinions when logic dictates. Besides, my goal in debating isn't necessarily to change others opinions as much as it is to strengthen my own.

I don't think we'll end up in a 1984 style world either, but it certainly is possible. I think Germany and the rise of Hitler as a similar example and a lesson to be learned. I'm no history major, so i could be mistaken. But Hitler came about in a time of depression in Germany and promised great things in exchange for giving up some personal freedoms. This to me tells me that we may be heading in a direction as we give up more freedoms but it will still take something drastic to put us is in that sort of situation. But, as history shows, something drastic isn't any sort of impossibility.

I do think we're smart enough... but take away our food, safety, and economic security then maybe intelligence won't be enough.

Holy crap did i get off subject. How did it go from marijuana to Orwell? My bad.
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[Allamorph]

[quote name='The13thMan][FONT="Century Gothic"][COLOR="DarkOrange"]Certainly she has the right to say it, i just don't like it.[/COLOR'][/FONT][/quote]
[FONT=Arial]Aye, but by continuously and tactlessly displaying your attitude, you make a better case against yourself than against her. The fact that you chose to argue with not one, not two, but [I]three[/I] moderators doesn't exactly showcase your best side, either. :animeswea That's why you're gettin' whacked so much; if it had been, say, me you had gotten into a spat with, things would have gone a lot differently.

And there were a few better ways to say that you felt slighted than the one(s) you chose to employ. Just sayin'.

[QUOTE][FONT="Century Gothic"][COLOR="DarkOrange"][I]How much control a person should have and a government should have when it comes to safety is a fairly tricky game to play. It's quite complex and to claim you're either for or against the government having control is a false dichotomy. [/I][/COLOR][/FONT][/QUOTE]

I think you mostly understand what you're talking about here, but I feel the need to interject a bit about the government angle.

First off, when you say "government", you're being really generic. Here in the States we have three levels, as I'm sure you are aware: Federal, State, and Local. Each of these levels was created in order to protect, govern, and make certain decisions for a certain size group of people.

The Local government is by far the most direct form of government you as a person will encounter. Some Locals govern only their city; some govern an entire county, or slightly more. Because the Local government has so relatively few constituents, it is much easier for it to make policies based on the interests of those constituents. Certainly there will be differences of opinion, but by and large there will be an overwhelming majority who feel the same way about the directions policy should go. Also, all of the elected officials come from this small constituency, so most everyone represented by them either knows them personally or knows someone else who does; easier access to the person means a higher likelihood of involvement on the part of the citizen.

The State is obviously a bit broader by comparison. It is placed over a much larger group of people who are more likely to differ in opinion on matters of policy, and the differences may be much wider. Consider South Carolina: how does the general attitude of the citizens of Charleston, a rather large city, differ from the citizens of Latta, a fairly homely town, on the issues of public transportation, or even road maintenance? The Local governments in each location have the ability to satisfy the desires of their constituents better than does the S.C. State government, simply because the Local level has much less people to consider. And again, even two large cities that are separated by distance, such as Savannah and Myrtle Beach, are likely to differ in interest, so that factor is added into the State's decision-making process as well. And because there is a larger population base, the disassociation between an elected official and his or her constituents is larger, so there may be someone representing you about whom you know very little ? or maybe you know no one.

Now extend these principles to the Federal level. Population is much larger, interest and opinion difference is much larger, and the disassociation factor is enormously larger. Think about the differences between California and Massachusetts. The Federal government is responsible for all these people, and for finding the best line of mediation between them. The odds that your particular interests will be represented and dealt with to your satisfaction is relatively low.

Also remember that the officials in office at any level of government are elected there for the primary purpose of [I]protecting your interests[/I]. If you (generic) are not involved with the government at any level in any way, shape, or form, then you have no place to complain about the policies they make, since you made no effort to influence their decision. In fact, the more involved a person is in their government(s), the more right they have to complain about its processes ? save in those instances where common involvement is not allowed, such as dictatorships.

Bottom line is that the government was not put in place to control you. It was put in place [I]for you[/I], and if you (generic) are apathetic about it, then you are allowing yourself to be controlled. If you want something done a particular way, say so or nobody will know. If you are afraid that your voice will not be enough, then find more people; perhaps if you move first others will follow.

The government here does what we tell it to, but if we only complain and tell it nothing, it does at it sees best. This is the flaw inherent in our system: that no one bothers to say anything because they grow lazy, and then get fed up that their silent voice is not being heard.[/FONT]

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]I don't think that legalization necessarily means total chaos, which I think a lot of people miss when talking about this subject.

The13thMan might be advocating legalization but being that I really haven't gone into this thread in detail, I don't know if he's also arguing [i]regulation[/i].

Control by Government does not have to be a black and white issue of total control or no control. I think a lot of people on both sides regularly make the mistake of thinking that something either has to be 100% legal/accessible or 100% illegal/unaccessible.

My view is that if something is made legal - especially if it's potentially harmful if wrongly used - it should be regulated.

Regulation will of course never stop everyone getting to something - especially those who shouldn't be getting to it. But then again, the illegal status won't either (and some would argue - quite reasonably - that keeping something illegal actually makes it much easier to access than if there were strict standards in place that were verifiable).

So, while I'm not really intending to get into the nuts and bolts of the discussion, I'm kind of throwing a bone to The13thMan because I think that side of the issue can be argued with more reason.

In terms of my view, I agree that government has a social responsibility. However, I also believe that individuals need to take responsibility for their actions. Government, in my view, should be in the business (generally) of regulating rather than outright banning.

The last thing we want - at least in my country - is a Nanny State. I know I generally don't want my Government deciding what to ban based on whether or not I might be irresponsible.[/font]

[Starwind]

I figure since it's already so easy to get ahold of why not do just that. Make it accessible but regulated. We already have all kinds of regulations on the legal drugs in this country like cigarrettes and alchol. Esspecially the latter of the three. The bottom line is that the responsiblity rests solely on the individual. Some people abuse these drugs, esspecially alchol, but not everyone.

I just think that it's kinda think that if you let people chose, that there will be alot less mystery involved. I'm the perfect example. I've never smoked a regular cigarrette and have no interest in doing so, but I have tried marijuana before. I wouldn't do it again, but I think the reason I was so interested in doing it in the first place was for the simple fact that I knew I wasn't suppose to. You know, the forbidden fruit and all. The more you tell someone they can't have something the more they actually want it.

Also, I would like to point out how simple offences like possesion block up our legal systema nd keep us from more expediently trying serious crimes. I say just go ahead and legalize it, if no other reason then the fact that it'll help get some of these simple court cases out of the way of our already over worked court system so we can get around to putting real criminals in jail.

[AzureWolf]

OK, you know what?! I'm freakin' sick of this thread. Here is the post that will put both sides at rest:

[url]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-940551580328756105[/url]

Who are you going to listen to? Some "scientists" you never met, some "online friends" you never met or can trust, OR those imaginary childhood cartoon characters who were always there for you while you were growing up? I mean, sure, for them to come to life and give you solutions to your problems specifically, you'd probably need to be high, but that's besides the point.

I don't know about you, but Bugs and Michaelangelo never steered me wrong, so I'm going with their advice.

That, and the Ducktales game rocked my socks off.

[Retribution]

[quote name='AzureWolf']OK, you know what?! I'm freakin' sick of this thread. Here is the post that will put both sides at rest:

[url]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-940551580328756105[/url]

Who are you going to listen to? Some "scientists" you never met, some "online friends" you never met or can trust, OR those imaginary childhood cartoon characters who were always there for you while you were growing up? I mean, sure, for them to come to life and give you solutions to your problems specifically, you'd probably need to be high, but that's besides the point.

I don't know about you, but Bugs and Michaelangelo never steered me wrong, so I'm going with their advice.

That, and the Ducktales game rocked my socks off.[/QUOTE]
[font=Arial]Bush I endorses it, enough reason to not listen. ;)[/font]

[Allamorph]

[quote name='Retribution][font=Arial']Bush I endorses it, enough reason to not listen. ;)[/font][/quote]
[FONT=Arial]Aww, you're such a [I]bore.[/I] :rolleyes:[/FONT]

[Boo]

[size=1]That movie was top notch quality. People should edit the OP of the thread and put it in. And put it in their signatures. And burn it on DVDs and spread them throughout town. And it needs daily routines on every TV channel. Oh, and they should beam it on the moon 24/7.

Thanks, AzureWolf, you enriched my life.[/size]

[silpheedpilot]

[SIZE="1"][COLOR="SlateGray"]Honestly? Legalize it. Who cares? I don't do it, my friends don't do it, the people I find interesting and alright in books don't do it.

Only douchebags do marijuana so I guess I'm pointing fingers around here.

Seriously. Legalize it. I'll still stay away from it like I have been and it'll just be another thing I can beat the piss out of my children for if they try it.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[Aberinkula]

[QUOTE]Seriously. Legalize it. I'll still stay away from it like I have been and it'll just be another thing I can beat the piss out of my children for if they try it.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="77656"]One of these days silpheed, the wrong person will come along and beat the living hell oughta your *** with that attitude. As I recall, your a skater and you hate the thug types, so stick to skateboarding, not thugging.

And it would't matter if you did it or not, you sound kinda douchey to me.[/COLOR]

[silpheedpilot]

[quote name='Premonition'][COLOR="77656"]One of these days silpheed, the wrong person will come along and beat the living hell oughta your *** with that attitude.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"][COLOR="SlateGray"]Man, wouldn't that be awesome?[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[The13thMan]

[quote name='silpheedpilot'][SIZE="1"][COLOR="SlateGray"]Honestly? Legalize it. Who cares? I don't do it, my friends don't do it, the people I find interesting and alright in books don't do it.

Only douchebags do marijuana so I guess I'm pointing fingers around here.

Seriously. Legalize it. I'll still stay away from it like I have been and it'll just be another thing I can beat the piss out of my children for if they try it.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/QUOTE]

[COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]You're a moron. There's nothing else worth saying to you besides that.


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[Annie]

[size=1]You peeps need to take a chill pill. I'm sure those are still legal ^_~ Name-calling and stereotyping isn't getting anyone anywhere except to paths of anger and irrelevance to the topic.

Personally, people smoke pot/grow pot everywhere anyway--whether if it's legal or not--and no one really does much about it. So, why not? I could care less because I don't have any interest in smoking. It wouldn't phase me in the least bit. And I don't see why it's no different than drinking alcohol. I think it should be legal, but with consequences like alcohol. We aren't prohibited for drinkin, but we are punished for drinking and driving. So, if you smoke pot, stay home or wherever you're at. No smoking in public places...which is pretty much universal in the US, anyway.[/size]

[Rachmaninoff]

[quote name='Athena'][size=1]You peeps need to take a chill pill. I'm sure those are still legal ^_~ Name-calling and stereotyping isn't getting anyone anywhere except to paths of anger and irrelevance to the topic.[/size][/QUOTE]Seconded.

Seriously people, knock it off with the name calling and off topic flaming.

[silpheedpilot]

[quote name='The13thMan'][COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]You're a moron. There's nothing else worth saying to you besides that. [/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[SIZE="1"][COLOR="SlateGray"]I'm not beneath you so don't act above me.

I'm looking at things in Annie's prospective. It doesn't matter if it's legal or illegal because people are going to do it regardless. There is underage drinking everywhere, teens smoking, doing whatever. It's illegal but does it stop them? Nah.

I skate places that say I shouldn't skate there but do I let some sign tell me no? Nah.

I'll keep on not smoking illegal substances while other people can continue while on the other side of the spectrum the people who abuse marijuana can keep on keepin' on while I continue to break the law by skating places I shouldn't.

Jesus. Start something and everyone jumps down your throat. It's like everyone is deprived. The OB is all uptight and sterile now.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[The13thMan]

[quote name='silpheedpilot'][SIZE="1"][COLOR="SlateGray"]I'm not beneath you so don't act above me.

I'm looking at things in Annie's prospective. It doesn't matter if it's legal or illegal because people are going to do it regardless. There is underage drinking everywhere, teens smoking, doing whatever. It's illegal but does it stop them? Nah.

I skate places that say I shouldn't skate there but do I let some sign tell me no? Nah.

I'll keep on not smoking illegal substances while other people can continue while on the other side of the spectrum the people who abuse marijuana can keep on keepin' on while I continue to break the law by skating places I shouldn't.

Jesus. Start something and everyone jumps down your throat. It's like everyone is deprived. The OB is all uptight and sterile now.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/QUOTE]

[COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]I actually probably am above you. I'm about 6'1''. So beat that, punk. =P

I called you a moron because of the way you generalized everyone that smokes pot as "douchebags." That's not any worse or better than what i said to you.

People won't do it regardless. There are still those people out there that would like to try it that don't because it's against the law. There are those that don't smoke it nearly as often because it's illegal. So yes, the legality of the substance does have bearing on its use. But it's totally irrelevant.

I'm tired of the subject though...

And the OB has always been uptight and sterile. You can thank the mods for that. =D
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[Ellerby]

[quote name='silpheedpilot'][SIZE="1"][COLOR="SlateGray"]Only douchebags do marijuana so I guess I'm pointing fingers around here.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/QUOTE]
[FONT="Tahoma"][COLOR="DimGray"]Wow. Man, I've talked to you... once? Who are you to decide if I'm a douchebag or not? Let the people who [i]know[/i] me decide that. :/

As far as legalization goes, it would be nice if it was legal, but it wouldn't change how people react when they find out someone smokes. It suddenly changes their entire view of the person. I've gotten used to it.

So if weed was legalized, I would still do it the same as now. Right now I only actually smoke 1 or 2 times a week, since I've been busy with school and work. And that's the way it'll probably be for a while. At least, until I stop at the end of College.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[Heaven's Cloud]

[color=indigo]Years ago I would have been the first guy to jump on the “lets legalize marijuana” bandwagon, mainly because I didn’t like the government telling me what I could and could not do to my own body. After all, while marijuana can be a detriment to my own health, my using it does not harm anyone else directly (note: anyone that uses the argument “well pot tears families and friends apart” needs to realize that argument implies indirect harm, usually stemming from the hard truth that the party in question is a douche regardless of his habitual drug use).

That being written, I no longer think that the United States federal government should legalize marijuana. Not because marijuana is harmful, addictive, or would be grossly mass marketed, processed, and tainted by corporate America, but because the legalization or (made up word alert!!!) illegalization of drugs by the federal government is a vulgar demonstration of their power to regulate interstate commerce. The legalization of drugs should be determined by governing state bodies, for they are far more adept at representing the will of their constituents.

See, I’d much rather have a nanny state (yeah James, you know you have missed me stealing your phrases and then horribly bastardizing them) where my voice is one in a few million than a nanny country where my voice is one in hundreds of million.[/color]

[Justin]

I have, in fact, missed you. And you make a valid point. Well said.

I am not a regular smoker, myself. Thus, the legal state of marijuana is not a big concern of mine. Though, I will say this:

It is no more dangerous than alcohol. In fact, I've seen far more damage done by consumption of the latter. The whole stigma surrounding weed stems from an early 20th century attempt to find the Devil in all things pleasurable or new. Typical American Puritanism.

In fact, there was a massive propaganda campaign launched against the drug in the first half of the last century by the federal government, which was shortly discounted by some of their own researchers.

Of course, with the populace already up in arms against this new threat to their homes and families, the feds weren't about to back down and face the real enemy--economic irresponsibility.

All that said, when someone says to me "You shouldn't smoke marijuana." I, in turn, ask them "Why?"

There is little argument against that, save for "It's illegal." Which, of course, if it were made legal, that argument would be invalid.

It's all a matter of discretion, as with most things in life. It [i]can[/i] rule you, and I've seen that. So can alcohol. So can nicotine(this I'm all too aware of). But with the proper restrictions in place, and with proper discretion on the part o the individual user, it will do no more harm than those aforementioned substances.

In fact, I imagine it would be a two-fold blessing to this country; or at least our politicians. If it were legalized, the crime surrounding its illegal distribution would all but cease. This would save quite a bit of time and money prosecuting offenders. Also, like tobacco and alcohol, it could and would be taxed. Thereby bringing more money into the purses of the politicians.

So, why not make it legal? Simple. P-O-L-I-T-I-C-S. And typical American Puritanism.

-Justin

[Metalcore501]

Marijuana, was once a legal drug mainly in the prohabition area of time many many people turned to drugs spacifically marijuana. More and more things started to happen to the people smoking this drug, it turned into the substitute for Alchohal untill they finnaly got rid of it. Gods we learn from our mistakes and you pro-marijuana people should take the hint this drug can destroy not only the people that smoke it but familys of the people too.

[Aberinkula]

[QUOTE]and you pro-marijuana people should take the hint this drug can destroy not only the people that smoke it but familys of the people too.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="77656"]That's for the people who aren't smart and mess up. Not everyone messes up and can use it responsibally and safely. BTW, smoking and alchahol also destroy lives and families as well. And if memory serves, [B]YOU SMOKE Cigarettes[/B], and if you don't anymore, [B]YOU DID. [/B]So take that into consideration before saying mairijuana destroys lives.

That would be like me saying, "beating someone is bad" and going back and beating someone. Think before you say that.
[/COLOR]

[Allamorph]

[FONT=Arial]I think people would take you seriously if you wouldn't step on yourself so much.

[quote name='Premonition][COLOR="77656"]And if memory serves, [B]YOU SMOKE Cigarettes[/B], and if you don't anymore, [B]YOU DID. [/B']So take that into consideration before saying mairijuana destroys lives.[/COLOR][/quote]
See, that also called [I]firsthand experience[/I], and gives him more license to make his statement. My experience is second-hand, his is first-; ergo, his word carries more weight than mine, though we both are able to speak to the subject.

[QUOTE][COLOR=77656][I]That would be like me saying, "beating someone is bad" and going back and beating someone. Think before you say that.[/I][/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Rather, think before you make analogies. That would actually be like beating yourself, telling people that "beating someone is bad", and then going back and beating yourself again. (^_^) Make certain what you're trying to communicate is actually what you say.[/FONT]