Anthology

[Justin]

I understand that the rules in the Anthology forum are loose as it is, but I have a suggestion.

I have a story that I'm using the Anthology forum for; not only to showcase it, but to post it as I write it.

Now, I've been here a long time. I was here before most of the rules of this board were, and contributed my own part to their creation. Thus, I understand the rules about double posting. And, as I understand them, the rules preventing double posting are in place not to prevent double posting for double posting's sake; but rather to prevent pointless ramblings, spam, and the absolute domination of a discussion.

My thread was edited by Lady Asphixia, in accordance with the board's rules, and she merged three of my posts into one. My problem is this:

In a forum such as Anthology, and in a story such as mine, most readers (of the few that will follow such things) aren't going to post after [i]every[/i] one of my installments. That would be somewhat ridiculous.

However, if I have to merge all of my new installments into a post I previously made, simply because no one else has felt the need to comment, my thread is going to disappear into the back pages where no one will see it, and fewer will bother to track it down. Hell, after a point, I won't bother.

So, would it be possible to loosen the constraints on double posting a little in the Anthology forum? I've done these kind of stories many times over the years, and this kind of double posting has never been a problem before. But I think perhaps, the rule in this case is being enforced for the sake of it being a rule; and perhaps the point of the rule is being overlooked.

-Justin

[Desbreko]

[color=#4B0082]Step 1: Click the edit button on your latest post in the thread
Step 2: Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C in the message field
Step 3: Delete the post
Step 4: Start a new post and Ctrl+V in the message field
Step 5: Add new content
Step 6: Post it

One post, new content, thread bumped; everybody's happy.[/color]

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]Desbreko's idea is a solid one, because we avoid double posts and the thread remains active.

However if this ends up becoming a major problem then I'll certainly review the rules. I just want to make sure we do whatever is neatest and most logical for Anthology.

If anyone else has an opinion on this I'd love to hear it; no rule is set in stone really and I want to know what people think.[/font]

[Petie]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=blue]I can see where allowing double posting in this case would make sense but I think Desbreko's idea will also help keep the flow of the story. If you post three parts in a row and then there are six comments, followed by a fourth part, a reader would have to go through the six comments before coming to the next part of the story. This isn't a big deal but having the story all in one post makes things a little easier to read.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=blue]However, I do have one concern. Deleting the original post in thread deletes the thread itself. Where is the middle ground here? Would allowing two posts right at the beginning (one for the title, info, etc and the other for the first part of the story) make sense or is there some other alternative?[/COLOR][/FONT]

[Desbreko]

[color=#4B0082]That has come up a few times, yeah, where a post can't be reposted because it's the only one in the thread. Most of the time I tell people that if it wasn't interesting enough to get any replies the first time it probably won't the second time either. But sometimes I will delete the thread for people as a favor so they can repost it.

In the case of the Anthology it would be okay to PM Revelation or Asphy and ask them to delete the old thread so it could be reposted. Or maybe we could allow a double post until the thread gets a reply, at which point they could be merged.[/color]

[Shy]

[size=1]I've never really thought that double-posting was a huge issue in Anthilogy threads, since in most cases the mods choose to overlook it (or at least some have in the past.) That forum isn't active enough to support discussion about everything posted in it, so if someone is posting a lot of poems or short stories I don't see an issue with them double/triple-posting.

My concern is that most fan-fiction is episodic in nature, so splitting the story into multiple posts is more natural. But the entire thing really seems like a non-issue.

-Shy[/size]

[Petie]

[quote name='Desbreko'][COLOR=#4b0082]That has come up a few times, yeah, where a post can't be reposted because it's the only one in the thread.[/COLOR][/quote]
[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=blue]I wasn't saying that the first post is the only one in the thread but when the OP adds to his/her story for the first time, your method implies deleting the original post, which cannot be done. Or am I misunderstanding you? My understanding was that every time a story is added to, the most recent version is copied into the new post and the first post is deleted. Wouldn't this imply that the original post gets deleted in the process though?[/COLOR][/FONT]

[Desbreko]

[color=#4B0082]I was just explaining a method of adding new content to a thread that you were the last person to reply to and bumping it to the top of the forum, yet without double posting. But if no one has replied at all it doesn't work since members can't delete the original post (which would delete the entire thread).[/color]

[2010DigitalBoy]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Hm. Personally, when I used to do a lot of stuff in the anthology, as soon as I made a post and no one replied, I stopped writing the story. Obviously, this is a rather depressing situation. That's all the input I can really give - just my perspective. [/COLOR]

[Petie]

[quote name='Desbreko'][COLOR=#4b0082]I was just explaining a method of adding new content to a thread that you were the last person to reply to and bumping it to the top of the forum, yet without double posting.[/COLOR][/quote]
[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=blue]Okay, I see what you're saying then. Leave whatever the original was alone but copy it into a new post (so essentially there would be two copies of the first part, the second of course having the next part attached to it). I had just assumed you meant to delete every other copy after posting the new one but obviously, as we have both stated, this is impossible since you can't delete the original.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[Gavin]

[quote name='Shy'][size=1]I've never really thought that double-posting was a huge issue in Anthology threads, since in most cases the mods choose to overlook it (or at least some have in the past.) That forum isn't active enough to support discussion about everything posted in it, so if someone is posting a lot of poems or short stories I don't see an issue with them double/triple-posting.

My concern is that most fan-fiction is episodic in nature, so splitting the story into multiple posts is more natural. But the entire thing really seems like a non-issue.

-Shy[/size][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Josh really summed up my thoughts on this, it's doesn't seem to me to be a huge issue if we allow writers in the Anthology to double post occasionally if they want to add new chapters to their existing works. I don't see it happening too often, as if it's the story itself is popular there will be additional posts aside from the OP, if not, then the OP generally loses interest and doesn't continue.[/SIZE]

[Doublehex]

I have to disagree with the majority here in that I think the no double posting rule is actually limiting us writers in terms of what we can post. All of my stories have been long in nature, from Evangelion - Worlds in Conflict to Arcanum and even to Kazoku (which I am still writing, FYI). The double posting rule holds me back in that I have to wait for another person to post just so I can put up my next chapter! And the break between posts, I have found, actually helps the reader concentrate, or at least they give their eyes a much needed break. Merging all of the chapters into one post will more likely than not discourage the readers from reading further just because of how hard it is for their to be chapter after chapter with little to no visual rest.

Now, I understand that the double posting rule was put up to prevent spam, but as far as I know, that has never been a problem at the Anthology.

[Desbreko]

[color=#4B0082]Well, like I explained, you don't have to wait for someone else to post. You can still add the next chapter and bump the thread without double posting. And if you hit the character limit (10,000 characters per post) you're allowed to double post.

I feel sorry for people if they seriously don't have the attention span to read multiple chapters in a row, though. Have they never read an actual book before? I can sit and read for hours with no problem. :animesigh[/color]

[Gavin]

[quote name='Desbreko'][color=#4B0082]I feel sorry for people if they seriously don't have the attention span to read multiple chapters in a row, though. Have they never read an actual book before? I can sit and read for hours with no problem. :animesigh[/color][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]I don't think it's as much about attention span as it is about presentation, with a book you're reading a page at a time, so it doesn't really feel like you're reading such a large body of writing. With a fic, it's more like reading a scroll, you get no break in between portions of text as you do with pages, and I think that actually would put people off.

But if 10,000 characters is the actual limit for a post, I wasn't sure myself what it was, I thought it was much higher, then simply spacing the text better, or even using tables would probably solve the problem of needing to double post.[/SIZE]

[2010DigitalBoy]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]It's always good to have stopping points and all. And I totally agree with Matt - wall of text is no good. And personally, I always went with a 1-chapter-per-post formula. and really, wouldn't double-posting just be totally infinitely more effeicient then restarting the thread every chapter?[/COLOR]

[Rachmaninoff]

What's wrong with using a tag like this for a break?

[hr=blue]100[/hr][hr=blue]100[/hr]
[SIZE="3"][CENTER][B]Next Chapter Title Goes Here[/B][/CENTER][/SIZE]
[hr=blue]100[/hr][hr=blue]100[/hr]
I fail to see why that break has to come in the form of another post when there are so many things the author can do to grab the attention of the people reading it.

If it's an issue of presentation, I'd suggest thinking out of the box instead of limiting yourself to the idea that the next chapter can only be done or grab people's attention if it's in a separate post.

[Allamorph]

[FONT=Arial]True, and I agree. But there's still the issue of bumping the thread, which can't be done if there's only the single post.

So to solve that, have all the OPers hornswaggle one of their buddies into posting once in the thread. Now the creator can post again, and if they get no more thread comments they can still delete and repost as needed! Hooray![/FONT]

[Desbreko]

[color=#4B0082]Er, whoops. It seems I missed a zero in there. The character limit is [b]100,000[/b] per post, not 10,000.

If it's an issue with presentation, that's the author's fault. I mean, what's stopping people from adding breaks in the text? As Rach showed, some simple formatting can break the flow between chapters as well as starting a new post does. There's no reason why each new paragraph/section/chapter has to be separate by one empty line and nothing else.

Learn to use bb tags effectively and you'll have as much control over formatting and presentation as in any book. And if even that's not enough, HTML is allowed in the Anthology too. Relying on new posts to provide breaks is, in my opinion, just lazy.

And if you [i]really[/i] want the illusion of pages while reading, use the Page Up and Page Down keys on your keyboard. They're there for a reason. :o

To DB: Again, like I explained, you only have to repost the latest post. You don't have to totally remake the thread unless no one at all has replied. [b]Edit:[/b] And also note that I said I'd be willing to make an exception for double posting when no one else has replied.[/color]

[Doublehex]

[quote name='Rachmaninoff']What's wrong with using a tag like this for a break?

[hr=blue]100[/hr][hr=blue]100[/hr]
[SIZE="3"][CENTER][B]Next Chapter Title Goes Here[/B][/CENTER][/SIZE]
[hr=blue]100[/hr][hr=blue]100[/hr]
I fail to see why that break has to come in the form of another post when there are so many things the author can do to grab the attention of the people reading it.

If it's an issue of presentation, I'd suggest thinking out of the box instead of limiting yourself to the idea that the next chapter can only be done or grab people's attention if it's in a separate post.[/QUOTE]

Because not everyone knows how to do that. Me included. You can't presume everyone wants to do something of that nature, either.

Also, another post can work alot like FF.Net's Alert system - when people go to Anthology, they see said story is bolded. Oh, that means a new chapter is up! Reader go reads.

But the thread never has any visual symbol whenever an edit is done. Thus, how can readers know when the story is updated?

[Desbreko]

-_-

[quote name='Desbreko'][color=#4B0082]Step 1: Click the edit button on your latest post in the thread
Step 2: Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C in the message field
Step 3: Delete the post
Step 4: Start a new post and Ctrl+V in the message field
Step 5: Add new content
Step 6: Post it

One post, new content, thread bumped; everybody's happy.[/color][/QUOTE]
[quote name='Desbreko'][color=#4B0082]Step 1: Click the edit button on your latest post in the thread
Step 2: Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C in the message field
Step 3: Delete the post
Step 4: Start a new post and Ctrl+V in the message field
Step 5: Add new content
Step 6: Post it

One post, new content, thread bumped; everybody's happy.[/color][/QUOTE]
[quote name='Desbreko'][color=#4B0082]Step 1: Click the edit button on your latest post in the thread
Step 2: Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C in the message field
Step 3: Delete the post
Step 4: Start a new post and Ctrl+V in the message field
Step 5: Add new content
Step 6: Post it

One post, new content, thread bumped; everybody's happy.[/color][/QUOTE][color=#4B0082]Seriously guys, go try it. It works.

Also, [url=http://www.otakuboards.com/misc.php?do=bbcode][u]the FAQ is your friend[/u][/url].[/color]

[Rachmaninoff]

[quote name='Matt;799313]Because not everyone knows how to do that. Me included. You can't presume everyone wants to do something of that nature, either.[/QUOTE]It's right here in the instructions on how to use the tags here at OB: [URL="http://www.otakuboards.com/misc.php?do=bbcode"][U]Tags[/U][/URL][QUOTE=Matt']
Also, another post can work alot like FF.Net's Alert system - when people go to Anthology, they see said story is bolded. Oh, that means a new chapter is up! Reader go reads.

But the thread never has any visual symbol whenever an edit is done. Thus, how can readers know when the story is updated?[/QUOTE]Unless it's the first post, as Des already explained, it's simple to edit the post and lift what's in there, copy it to say word, delete the existing post and then repost it with the new material added. That bumps the thread and tells the alert system you speak of that there is a new post up. I've done that myself when I want to reply to a thread again and my post was the last one. It's really not that hard to do and takes little to no effort to do.

[B]EDIT:[/B] As always... Des is one step ahead. lol

[Gavin]

[quote name='Desbreko'][color=#4B0082]Er, whoops. It seems I missed a zero in there. The character limit is [b]100,000[/b] per post, not 10,000.

If it's an issue with presentation, that's the author's fault. I mean, what's stopping people from adding breaks in the text? As Rach showed, some simple formatting can break the flow between chapters as well as starting a new post does. There's no reason why each new paragraph/section/chapter has to be separate by one empty line and nothing else.[/color][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Ah, I thought 10,000 characters seemed a bit low.

That aside, I was really only acting as Devil's Advocate on this one, I think the problem could be solved easily with simply using tables or line breaks to separate out the body of work into chapters. We use tables all the time in RPGs, so I don't think it would be too hard to adapt it for here.[/SIZE]

[Justin]

I think this thread is pretty much done. My question was answered, and the debate is pretty well over. Copy, delete, reply, paste, submit.

-Justin

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]Actually I did want to see members' ideas on this issue, because it's something I'm very much open to changing. I can see a lot of benefits with the idea of each new post being a new chapter or something along those lines.

But I don't really want to make a decision about that until I've seen some discussion from the members. After all, it's the members who are affected by it.[/font]

[Justin]

Fair enough. That's the idea I still support. Like I said, I feel like the double posting rule here is being enforced for nothing but the sake of enforcing it. The idea behind that rule, correct me if I'm wrong, was to prevent spamming.

As I see it, this isn't spamming. This is simply writing. I write here more for myself than anyone else; but I hate for someone to want to read my stories and then be thrown off by the length of a single post.

Now, you say simply divide it up by chapters within the one post. I have to ask why? It's much easier to just post the thing. When you're like me and you have a lot on your plate as it is, this is a welcomed time-saver.

My main point is my first one: I really think this is splitting hairs here. It's something I've done for years, though Lady Asphyxia was by no means wrong, and it's always gone unchanged before. I fail to see how it's offensive now.

-Justin