Mainstream vs. Individualism

[Panache]

Wow. I like don't have a bunch of cliques in my school. Or at least I don't think I do. I like two split the people at my school(and actually people in general) into two categories. Boring people and interesting people. In my school there are a bunch of boring people. A good number of those people are probably the archetype of Fakes or Posers. I wouldn't know as they are boring and what they say usually gets drowned out by the sound of me wanting them to shut the **** up. then on the other hand there are the interesting people. These people I wouldn't dare call them fake. They all like different stuff and have a bunch of interesting quirks. And they do it of their own will rather than just because they wanna be different. So I can't see how trying to fit this mold makes you more likable. I can only see how it can make you more boring and uniteresting.

[eleanor]

[quote name='Premonition'][COLOR="77656"]
Wow, that would have never occured to me. So if I act like every other drone out there, I'm different?[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[font="trebuchet ms"] I never said being different was acting like "every other drone out there", so don't insinuate that I did. Try dealing in moderation and not absolutism.
[/font]

[SunfallE]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"][quote name='Korey;800726][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]Mainstream: This is often used to describe a large mass of people who have similar tastes, whether it be in fashion, music....what have you. Some examples would be wearing Hollister clothes and listening to the Red Jumpsuit Apparatus or Good Charlotte of (insert popular band here). These people don't really tend to stray away from the norm, at least in theory anyways. [/FONT][/QUOTE]I would say that they don?t stray away from what is considered the norm perhaps in visual actions, but thoughts and feelings? Unless they truly do like mostly what is considered mainstream tastes then it?s likely that there are non mainstream tastes that they do have yet never openly acknowledge. Peer pressure is a pain, whether its to fit in with other kids or perhaps the expectations of whatever religion you were raised in. [quote name='Korey;800726][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]Indiviualism: People who strive to be "different" from others, by ways of fashion, musical tastes, etc. Goths, metal heads, and many niche groups tend to fall into this stereotype. These people are often persecuted (at least they think so) or looked in a lesser way, because of their choice to veer from the socially common value in place[B][I][U] at that time[/U][/I][/B'].[/FONT][/quote]Personally I think the desire to claim one is an individual is more of a fear that one has of not being seen for who they are. So in an effort to make sure others know they are ?different? they go off on a quest of only doing what isn?t considered mainstream just to prove a point. Even if they don?t even like the less popular or mainstream choices out there as far as music, clothing, etc. Unfortunately, that just leads to losing yourself anyway in my opinion.[QUOTE=Korey'][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]Now here's my thing about individualism and mainstream. First off, let's ditch those maudlin terms. There is no such thing as Mainstream or Indiviualism period. You cannot be totally similar to someone else, because you will differ in some way, no matter how minute (this stems particularly from your life experiences and choices), so the term mainstream should really be called "Popular for the Masses". Individualism is a really old, cliche term too. You aren't gonna be totally different, because somewhere, at sometime...someone came up with the same ideas as you. You tend to hang out with people of similar tastes right? How is that being an individual if you want to be part of a group? This means you go with the mainstream of that particular niche group.

Soooooo...basically, in my own humble opinon. Everyone is mainstream in some way, every one is and individual. It's really a balancing act, there is no one extreme or the other.

What do you think?[/FONT][/QUOTE]For the most part I agree with what you are saying here since like a few have said, it?s not so much whether something is considered mainstream but rather whether or not you are making your own choices as to what you like or enjoy, regardless of whether or not something is popular. Though in all honesty, when I think of individualism I think of self-reliance and personal independence instead of whether or not my taste in music is considered mainstream or not. lol

In the end I think it's almost a pointless debate or topic in the sense that if you already do things based on what you really like or feel; being considered mainstream or an individual is rather meaningless because all that matters is being yourself and leaving the labels behind. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[Korey]

[quote name='Premonition'][COLOR="77656"]So than from what I gather, all of our opinions didn't matter and that Korey technically answered everyone's question before they asnwered it. Now I'm confused. This is like the genre battles in a way.

EDIT: This question might not have a definite or indefinite answer.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]That's the reason for discussion here ^_~. This question doesn't have a definite answer, but I merely stated what I thought on the issue. It's not the definite answer, because unlike laws of science, things like this never have definite answers....lol. That's why I like this type of question, because it's really funny to see people get so one-sided on the issue and then you point out something like I did and then you see the hyprocricy of people in genral. [/FONT]

[quote name='Indifference']Most of the responses are telling me that no one is paying attention to what Korey originally said.[/quote]

[FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]Yeah what's up with that? You guys need to pay attention, cause I don't speak for my health. ;) I keed, but this is going on my sig for sure.[/FONT]
[quote name=' SunfallE'] Personally I think the desire to claim one is an individual is more of a fear that one has of not being seen for who they are. So in an effort to make sure others know they are ‘different’ they go off on a quest of only doing what isn’t considered mainstream just to prove a point. Even if they don’t even like the less popular or mainstream choices out there as far as music, clothing, etc. Unfortunately, that just leads to losing yourself anyway in my opinion.[/quote]

[FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]That's funny, because there is a theory called the "Spiral of Silence", where the exact opposite is true. For example, my Journalism professor (who ironcially enough, taugh us about this) was at a conference and they asked everyone in the crowd their opinion about a specific topic, and almost everyone unamously agreed with the subject, minus my teacher. He was the only one that disagreed. After the conference was over, he was approached by several others that said "I love what you said, and I totally agree". Thus the "Spiral of Silence". Sometimes people are afraid to veer from the norm in light of people judging them in a bad manner, so they stay "mainstream" (ugh this term stinks now...lol) in order to avoid such harsh judgements.

Overall, even though some may say that I've already answered the question in my originial post....I think the topic was a complete success in the fact that it spurred discussion on this overall abstract concept. Like I said before....[/FONT]

[quote name='Korey']Everyone is mainstream in some way, every one is and individual. It's really a balancing act, there is no one extreme or the other.[/quote]

[FONT= "Franklin Gothic Medium"]OMG, I just quoted myself!! I'm so vain.[/FONT]

[Nerdsy]

[quote name='Deus ex Machina'][COLOR="DarkOrange"]Do you honestly only do exactly what you want without any influence from others whatsoever? [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[color=deeppink]Nobody does that. But nobody.

Everyone has been influenced to some degree by someone else, whether it be because of someone close to them or because of sociological currents that have been in motion for thousands of years.

Case in point: you wear whatever your mother buys you. Barring the "nature versus nuture" question for a moment, you are allowing her to choose your clothes. You may choose to do it, but she's still influencing you on what you wear.[/color]

[quote]... if you have even the slightest reservation, then you can't honestly say that you do whatever you want. [/quote]

[color=deeppink]Unless the reservation is because the action is something one doesn't want to do. Or, perhaps, if the ation will possibly result in an undesired consequence.[/color]

[SunfallE]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"][quote name='Korey'][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]That's funny, because there is a theory called the "Spiral of Silence", where the exact opposite is true. For example, my Journalism professor (who ironcially enough, taugh us about this) was at a conference and they asked everyone in the crowd their opinion about a specific topic, and almost everyone unamously agreed with the subject, minus my teacher. He was the only one that disagreed. After the conference was over, he was approached by several others that said "I love what you said, and I totally agree". Thus the "Spiral of Silence". Sometimes people are afraid to veer from the norm in light of people judging them in a bad manner, so they stay "mainstream" (ugh this term stinks now...lol) in order to avoid such harsh judgements.

Overall, even though some may say that I've already answered the question in my originial post....I think the topic was a complete success in the fact that it spurred discussion on this overall abstract concept. Like I said before....[/FONT][/QUOTE]I know what you are referring to and there's a movie or show I saw a long time ago about a professor attempting to help his students understand how someone like Hitler could have occurred. It basically went along the lines of him indicating there was some special group for teens all across the nation and very few students dared to even object to what seemed like an undue influence on others by the teacher. It's kind of sad that I don't remember the name of it, but I remember how it ended, with the teacher showing the students a clip of their national leader [spoiler]which by the way was a clip of none other than Hitler himself[/spoiler] I wish I could remember the name since it showcased people's reluctance to speak out for fear of reprisal or isolation from the majority, even though others agreed in a very powerful way.

Anyway, I wouldn't say that you completely answered the question in your original post since obviously, there are different degrees or aspects of the theory behind mainstream vs individualism or rather situations to which you can apply and study it's effects. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[Rachmaninoff]

[quote name='SunfallE'][COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"]I wish I could remember the name since it showcased people's reluctance to speak out for fear of reprisal or isolation from the majority, even though others agreed in a very powerful way.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]Unless I'm mistaken, you're thinking of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wave_(book)"][U]The Wave[/U][/URL] It does make an interesting case of just how easy it can be to get caught up in following along with the majority instead of speaking out. Plus it was kind of creepy as well. No one likes to think that they could be so easily influenced.

[silpheedpilot]

[SIZE="1"][COLOR="SlateGray"]People are people and they follow the things they find enjoyable and single out and label the things they dislike or disapprove of.

It's been that way for years since and it's not going to change, ya know?

Kinda stinks, sure, but it's there and it's alive.
[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[The Spectacular Professor]

My viewpoint? Here it is:

I'm me.

That's pretty individual, since I'm the only me I'm aware of.

[Panache]

[quote name='Aceburner']My viewpoint? Here it is:

I'm me.

That's pretty individual, since I'm the only me I'm aware of.[/QUOTE]

I am your doppelganger!

[Horendithas]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='Panache']If that's the case what are we talking about here. I am really confused now.[/QUOTE]Go and read Retribution's post or Korey's post again. The terms Mainstream and Individualism were grossly being misunderstood here and both of them explain it rather well. I think half of the conflict comes from people not realizing what the two of them mean since the first thought or thing I hear is "just cause I listen to this doesn't mean I'm not an individual" when the actual thing you are listening to or wearing isn't what defines that. It's whether or not the main influence for that comes from yourself.

You can't get away from outside influence obviously, but still the idea is that you like it because you do, not because your best friend does. Though if he/she did as well that wouldn't matter either, so long as you genuinely like it as well.

And Individualism is more about not being forced to accept and live by values you do not agree with even if the majority does. Though that can and does apply to what Korey is saying as well since as Beth pointed out peer pressure and religious expectations can have the effect of one feeling as if they are forced to give up their individualism in order to be accepted. And that includes one's taste in music/clothing, etc. Though I don't consider that as important as the more obvious suppression of one's individualism. [quote name='Korey'][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]Yeah what's up with that? You guys need to pay attention, cause I don't speak for my health. ;) I keed, but this is going on my sig for sure.[/FONT][/QUOTE]Hahaha. [/COLOR]

[2010DigitalBoy]

[quote name='Nerdsy'][color=deeppink]Nobody does that. But nobody.

Everyone has been influenced to some degree by someone else, whether it be because of someone close to them or because of sociological currents that have been in motion for thousands of years.

Case in point: you wear whatever your mother buys you. Barring the "nature versus nuture" question for a moment, you are allowing her to choose your clothes. You may choose to do it, but she's still influencing you on what you wear.[/color]
[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Which is why I view others as extensions of myself :p[/COLOR]

[Panache]

Oh...

then I would certainly hope all of us are individuals. I mean we all have expectations we are suppose to meet but that shouldn't make up your entire life. I mean if you live to meet these expectations you are missing one of the great things about being a human being with free will. Thats for explaining it for me indifference.

[The Spectacular Professor]

[quote name='Panache']I am your doppelganger![/QUOTE]

Crap. Time to conform to weeaboo stereotypes.

[Korey]

[FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]I've never been so quoted in my life...lol and this thread was meant to explore this topic without suggesting that if you do what others do you are a mainstream conformist and if not, you are a rebel individual. It's not that black and white. We all take ideas and lifestyle choices of others. No one can truly say I AM MY OWN PERSON AND NO ONE INFLUENCES ME. That's a big crock. That's not to say that confroming to others is a good thing all the time, because it supresses expression. I don't think this will ever truly happen, because human nature always has a way of having at least one person sticking out from the mold.[/FONT]
[quote name=' Deus Ex Machina'] Which is why I view others as extensions of myself [/quote]

[FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]Then I must be the suave, debonair, ultra cool extension of you. :smirk:[/FONT]

[quote name=' Panache']then I would certainly hope all of us are individuals. I mean we all have expectations we are suppose to meet but that shouldn't make up your entire life. I mean if you live to meet these expectations you are missing one of the great things about being a human being with free will. Thats for explaining it for me indifference.[/quote]

[FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]Expectations come from your socialization, the way you were raised. You have your own expectations of how you are gonnna perform under certain circumstances. Ever walk into a test and expect to do good or bad? But that's how people are. They set expectations for themselves, with their own free will. Your parents set them during adollescence because they are setting you for your own adult life. This hardly constitutes as opression of free will, which is something we should discuss in another thread.[/FONT]

[Panache]

[quote name='Aceburner']Crap. Time to conform to weeaboo stereotypes.[/QUOTE]
Super Kawaii suskue is so hawt! Man those people are disturbing. I don't know how someone can actually like....act like that in real life.

[2010DigitalBoy]

[quote name='Panache']Super Kawaii suskue is so hawt! Man those people are disturbing. I don't know how someone can actually like....act like that in real life.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]T_T you wound me.[/COLOR]

[Panache]

[quote name='Deus ex Machina'][COLOR="DarkOrange"]T_T you wound me.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Oh yea...sorry.I know you say kawaii...or uhh the kawaii substitute. But like...people on Gaia talk like that. And apparently they talk like that in real life too...and wonder why they get picked on.(And apparently they are in peoples faces about it...they are like Trolls in real life...) If it's any consolation you spelling/grammar is infinitely better than theirs.

[2010DigitalBoy]

[quote name='Panache']Oh yea...sorry.I know you say kawaii...or uhh the kawaii substitute. But like...people on Gaia talk like that. And apparently they talk like that in real life too...and wonder why they get picked on.(And apparently they are in peoples faces about it...they are like Trolls in real life...) If it's any consolation you spelling/grammar is infinitely better than theirs.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Spelling and grammar don't really carry over into conversation, though, so i'm probably just as annoying. Though the things I fanboy over no one cares about nor has heard of, so it's pretty pointless, and I'm always yelling (and I do mean yelling) at the other fanboys/girls for not liking what I like an all so... yeah. I'm probablly about that annoying. Especially since I talk very loudly and cuss too much.[/COLOR]

[Panache]

[quote name='Deus ex Machina'][COLOR="DarkOrange"]Spelling and grammar don't really carry over into conversation, though, so i'm probably just as annoying. Though the things I fanboy over no one cares about nor has heard of, so it's pretty pointless, and I'm always yelling (and I do mean yelling) at the other fanboys/girls for not liking what I like an all so... yeah. I'm probablly about that annoying. Especially since I talk very loudly and cuss too much.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

:o I am the same way. And there is no way you can be as annoying as these people...no way in hell...

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="77656"]When people critisise my music, I get this anger bent up inside. and I want to rain hell about theirs. Now I still listen to some generic music, but they usually listen to horible underrated crap. But I sort of like MCR. >_> Really, music is one of the biggest things that impacts the "mainstream' thing. It's hard to find anyone who you can zero out ans 'individual' when it comes to msuic. This is what I see anyways.[/COLOR]

[Mr. Maul]

[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=1][COLOR=DimGray]First off, there should be some sort of script running that prevents [B]DB[/B], [B]Prem[/B], and [B]Panache[/B] from being able to post in the same thread.

It's like I read the same three posts over and over again for four pages.


Secondly, I'm going to quote a segment out of [B]Chuck Klosterman[/B]'s latest book, [B][U]IV[/U][/B]:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[quote=Chuck Klosterman] [SIZE=1]Do you want to be happy? I suspect that you do. Well, here's the first step to happiness: don't get pissed off that people who aren't you happen to think Paris Hilton is interesting and deserves to be on TV every other day; the fame surrounding Paris Hilton is not a reflection of your life (unless you want it to be). Don't get pissed off because the Yeah Yeah Yeahs aren't on the radio enough; you can buy the goddamn record and play "Maps" all goddamn day (if that's what you want). Don't get pissed off because people didn't vote the way you voted; you knew this was a democracy when you agreed to participate, so you knew this was how things might work out. Basically, don't get pissed off over the fact that the way you feel about culture isn't some kind of universal consensus. Because if you do, you will end up feeling betrayed. And it will be your own fault. You will feel bad, and you will deserve it.

Now, it is quite possible you disagree with me on this issue. And if you do, I know what your argument is: you're thinking, [I]But I'm idealistic[/I]. This is what people who want to inflict their values on other people always think; they think that there is some kind of romantic, respectable aura that insulates the inflexible, and that their disappointment with culture latently proves that they're tragically trapped by their own intellect and good taste. Somehow, they think their sense of integrity―if you truly live by your ideals, and those ideals dictate how you engage with the world at large―you will never feel betrayed by culture. You will simply enjoy culture more. You won't necessarily start watching syndicated episodes of [I]Everybody Loves Raymond[/I], but you will find it interesting that certain people do. You won't suddenly agree that [I]Amélie[/I] was a more emotive movie than [I]Friday Night Lights[/I], but you won't feel alienated and offended if every film critic you read tells you that it is. You will care, but you won't care.

You're not wrong, and neither is the rest of the world. But you need to accept that those two things aren't really connected.[/SIZE][/quote]


[SIZE=1][COLOR=DimGray]Thirdly, I think what [B]SunfallE[/B] said nicely concludes my post:[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[quote name='SunfallE][COLOR=RoyalBlue][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode] In the end I think it's almost a pointless debate or topic in the sense that if you already do things based on what you really like or feel; being considered mainstream or an individual is rather meaningless because all that matters is being yourself and leaving the labels behind.[/FONT'][/COLOR][/quote]

[Aberinkula]

[QUOTE]First off, there should be some sort of script running that prevents DB, Prem, and Panache from being able to post in the same thread.

It's like I read the same three posts over and over again for four pages.[/QUOTE]

[color="77656"]A solution to this would be to ignore us completely.

This argument, is like the glass half-empty or half-full ordeal. I don't know what to think anymore really, but I think this; we are individuals. Mainstream, is asociated with the word's 'same thing.' And if we were mainstream, wouldn't we all be alike? But because every human is different, there is really no such thing as being mainstream. [/COLOR]

[Korey]

[quote name='Premonition'][color="77656"]A solution to this would be to ignore us completely.

This argument, is like the glass half-empty or half-full ordeal. I don't know what to think anymore really, but I think this; we are individuals. Mainstream, is asociated with the word's 'same thing.' And if we were mainstream, wouldn't we all be alike? But because every human is different, there is really no such thing as being mainstream. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]Ugh must I repeat myself?[/FONT]

[quote name='Korey] Now here's my thing about individualism and mainstream. First off, let's ditch those maudlin terms. [B]There is no such thing as Mainstream or Indiviualism period[/B]. [B]You cannot be totally similar to someone else, because you will differ in some way, no matter how minute (this stems particularly from your life experiences and choices), so the term mainstream should really be called "Popular for the Masses". Individualism is a really old, cliche term too. You aren't gonna be totally different, because somewhere, at sometime...someone came up with the same ideas as you.[/B'] You tend to hang out with people of similar tastes right? How is that being an individual if you want to be part of a group? This means you go with the mainstream of that particular niche group.[/quote]

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="77656"]I don't pay attention to your posts, dude. Some members, including you, I ignore becuase we don't get along. And you didn't have to repeat yourself, cause I don't care anyways. What I said was different form yours. I believe in individuasm, and you don't. That's your opinion, and frankly what you said isn't going to change mine.

If this doesn't sound nice, I'm sorry, I'm not in a ripe mood.[/COLOR]