Prostitution

[Allamorph]

[quote name='Retribution']In fact, I might even go so far as to argue an unattractive prostitute is even more resourceful in that she manages to use her sub-par looks to still accumulate wealth.[/quote]
[FONT=Arial]I think that's more due to a large number of (possibly as unattractive) males who are not overly scrupulous with whom they have sex. :animesmil

My views? Let's put it this way: what you do in your time is your problem, not mine. As long as you keep me out of it, I'm indifferent.[/FONT]

[Heaven's Cloud]

[color=indigo]Some frequent points in this thread that I would like to touch on.

The physical beauty of prostitutes – Far more people purchase clothes from Wal-Mart than clothes from Prada. Still, that doesn’t mean that there are not an awful lot of people sporting Prada threads out. The same can be said about prostitutes. If you go to any large city there are plenty of drop dead gorgeous call girls and it is an entirely different market than the corner street walkers you see on Cops.

Degrading – To whom is prostitution degrading? The prostitute? Maybe her kink is to have sex with strangers. Maybe she likes being a prostitute and it suites her lifestyle better than working at Wal-Mart or Costco would.

Morality – If you find the act of sex between people that are not in love immoral then it is easy to see why prostitution is immoral. However, if you don’t glorify sex then I fail to see how you could find prostitution immoral (other than you are purchasing something you might be able to get for free elsewhere).

Honestly, I don’t care if prostitution is legal, actually I would say I would prefer if it remained illegal. Still, that doesn’t mean I can rationally justify why it should remain illegal. Hypocritical? Yeah, I’ll admit to that. [/color]

[Aaryanna_Mom]

I don’t agree with prostitution, plain and simple. I was taught and raised that sex was something between a married couples only. However, it’s not that simple when it comes to what others do. If the majority decide to make it legal then I will simply say nothing other than to insist that good regulation is implemented. Though if challenges to said legality were to arise, I would most likely support them. [quote name='Chabichou'][COLOR="#004a6f"]Personally, I am getting sick of this growing mentality that people can do whatever they want as long as they're "not hurting anybody".

It's really quite sad that our current society's idea of freedom is simply the lack of morals and dignity and respect.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]As much as I agree with you here, I am also compelled to disagree due to the lack of respect towards others different morals and viewpoints that this statement seems to be saying. I say this because even though I think it is wrong, I am, as you put it, sick of the attitude that would place something like this as our society’s idea of freedom. It is but one part and hardly a case of lack of morals, dignity and respect. Our freedom entails far more than being able to question whether or not something like this can be legal, it is but one part, and the moment we strip people of the right to question and chose to make something like this legal is the moment we truly will have sunk into a lack of morals, dignity and respect.

It goes both ways, you can’t claim freedom and deny certain aspects of it, especially when there are so many different religions, including beliefs that do not acknowledge the existence of God. [quote name='Chabichou'][COLOR="#004a6f"]Prostitution should remain illegal. It is a a disgusting, immoral act and harms the dignity of all parties involved. I will not sit here harping about the religious perspective of sex (like the idea that people should be married in order to have sex), but I will at least say that sex should only be done by those in a relationship who love each other. Simply using other people's bodies for pleasure (whether they are paid or not) is disrespectful and immoral. Why should we promote these kinds of ideas by making prostitution legal?

Our laws should not only protect people from physical harm, but should protect dignity and morals.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]This is a moral fallacy, to make statements as to what it does to the individual involved. Though I would agree, it is still even more disrespectful to force one’s moral values on someone else. It is something they need to learn and accept without someone forcing it on them. You or I might think it’s disgusting or immoral but others obviously do not.[quote name='AzureWolf;801633] Will I judge them for it and think of them less? Yes. I'm entitled to my opinion. [/QUOTE]I believe the phase would be let he who is without sin cast the first stone. The idea is to think less of the sin, not the supposed sinner.[quote name='AzureWolf'']The only excuse for prostitution here is you are too lazy.[/quote]That assumption is also lazy and makes me wonder if you are aware of the deep levels of poverty some families and people are in. Obviously if that is true, the deeper problem is the political corruption that allows such deep poverty to even exist. But to blindly state that someone is doing it because they are lazy, overlooks the very real possibility of economic instability in the area that could contribute to someone becoming a prostitute.

Now obviously, something like prostitution isn’t going to go away, the fact that it’s been around for so long only proves that point. The only reason I would accept it being made legal is because of the potential benefits to those who chose to do it. The argument I often hear is over the crime involved and obviously part of that is that if someone choose to do it illegally, they have no recourse should they be beaten, robbed, raped or intimidated into sexual slavery. They have no means to seek protection since doing so would mean they are prosecuted. I find it hypocritical to claim that the profession is the problem when the law is so one-sided when it comes to protecting them.

[DeathKnight]

[color=crimson]Operating on the basis that its illegal nature does not cease its existence, measures should be taken to ensure the quality of health within the industry at large to aid the fight against the spread of sexually transmitted diseases within the United States. If that requires legalization, legalize it. A level of enforcement should be sought to bring it in line with other commercial enterprises and regulated.

Haha. If people keep voting moral governments into power, I do not think the world has enough scapegoat countries to invade, destabilize, and allow to turn into an orgy of violence targeting civilians.

They will beat their swords into plowshares, eh?[/color]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='DeathKnight'][color=crimson]Operating on the basis that its illegal nature does not cease its existence, measures should be taken to ensure the quality of health within the industry at large to aid the fight against the spread of sexually transmitted diseases within the United States. If that requires legalization, legalize it. A level of enforcement should be sought to bring it in line with other commercial enterprises and regulated.

Haha. If people keep voting moral governments into power, I do not think the world has enough scapegoat countries to invade, destabilize, and allow to turn into an orgy of violence targeting civilians.

They will beat their swords into plowshares, eh?[/color][/QUOTE]Hmmm, and here I was thinking that decriminalizing it would be a better option, or rather making it easier for people who get into it to get out of it. :p Anyway...

What I find the most amusing in the arguments against it is how it is demeaning or demoralizing or damaging to the woman involved. I find it more than just a little amusing how a total stranger thinks they know me or anyone else well enough to make such a judgment or that they know me well enough to know if I would be hurt by engaging in such behavior.

Personally, even though I like sex, I have no interest in doing so for money. But at the same time I have no objection against those who do wish to do so for money. It never fails to amaze me at how easily people get up in arms over something that between two consenting adults is none of their business. [/COLOR]

[Gavin]

[SIZE="1"]Honestly, I think the rights and wrongs of prostitution are entirely within the eye of the beholder, something which has already been proven fairly conclusively by this thread.

Personally, I neither agree, nor disagree with prostitution as a job, I do however feel some sympathy for people who are prostitutes because like Mike/Zen, I'm a hopeless romantic and I think selling sex takes something out of the act. As has already been said, I don't think any child grows up with the dream of being a prostitute.[/SIZE]

[quote name='DeathKnight'][color=crimson]Operating on the basis that its illegal nature does not cease its existence, measures should be taken to ensure the quality of health within the industry at large to aid the fight against the spread of sexually transmitted diseases. If that requires legalization, legalize it. A level of enforcement should be sought to bring it in line with other commercial enterprises and regulated.[/color][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Quoted for truth. For the welfare of all parties, regulation and some degree of legalisation is necessary, because obviously you can't regulate an illegal industry. Pretending prostitution doesn't exist doesn't prevent people from using the service and potentially getting a fatal STD.[/SIZE]

[Darren]

Prostitution = a good thing

You'll find me on the street corner wearing Rocky Horror-esque attire every weekend. It's a good way to bring in the money. :p

But on a serious note, I feel bad for the guys that (or I guess girls too) that actually have to pay for sex... That's the [I]true[/I] all-time low. They have to [I]pay[/I] someone to have sex with them... And then they have to pay even more to make the sex interesting.

[lea]

To those who insist that prostitution should be outlawed: You do realize that things such as drugs are outlawed, and yet there are still people selling and using them? Just because you outlaw something does not mean that act will eliminate the crowd that wants it. If there is a market for something, there will be merchants to cater to it.

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR="#004a6f"][quote name='lea']To those who insist that prostitution should be outlawed: You do realize that things such as drugs are outlawed, and yet there are still people selling and using them? Just because you outlaw something does not mean that act will eliminate the crowd that wants it. If there is a market for something, there will be merchants to cater to it.[/QUOTE]That's not the point. There will always be people who break the law unfortunately. If you're saying that things shouldn't be outlawed because people will do it anyway, then we might as well not outlaw things like theft and murder. People are less likely to do something if it's against the law. Are laws reflect what is good or bad for our society.[/COLOR]

[DeathKnight]

[quote name='Chabichou'][COLOR="#004a6f"]Are laws reflect what is good or bad for our society.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[color=crimson]You are stretching it a bit there to make laws out to be unequivocally tied to morality.

Many laws are subjective views that are amoral. The best example are ones that are enforced for stability and safety. For example, speed limits are amoral. Taxes are amoral. Limitations and regulations on public gatherings are amoral.

There are many aspects of government that are morally neutral. Most candidates play to the ear of the electorate and overstate the level of morally-guided decisions that are made in Washington.[/color]

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR="#004a6f"][quote name='DeathKnight'][color=crimson]You are stretching it a bit there to make laws out to be unequivocally tied to morality.

Many laws are subjective views that are amoral. The best example are ones that are enforced for stability and safety. For example, speed limits are amoral. Taxes are amoral. Limitations and regulations on public gatherings are amoral.

There are many aspects of government that are morally neutral. Most candidates play to the ear of the electorate and overstate the level of morally-guided decisions that are made in Washington.[/color][/QUOTE]I didn't say that laws always tie into morality. I said they reflect what is good and bad for the society, and good and bad can refer to moral and immoral as well as morally neutral issues as you mentioned. Having a safe city is good, and having an unsafe city is bad, unless you care to disagree.[/COLOR]

[Jeebs]

[COLOR="Navy"]I don't think prostitution is illegal necessarily because it's considered immoral (although I'm sure that it has something to do with it), but because it helps spread STDs. I've heard several people say that that's a risk that both parties agree to take, but I don't think you're thinking about it enough.

Say a husband can't get any from his wife, so he hires a prostitute and gets infected. He doesn't want to get checked or anything because then his wife might find out that he saw a prostitute. So he goes on with life and eventually has a child. Now not only is the wife infected, but the child may be as well. They didn't agree to the risks. It's like if he had bought some illegal drugs, got high, and murdered his wife (although not that extreme, of course). He may have known the risks in taking those drugs, but does that mean the drugs should be legal?

The point is that this sort of decision doesn't only affect him, so it's not only his decision to make. Breaking your leg on the job isn't the same as getting a contagious disease.

That being said though, I don't see any reason why brothels shouldn't be legal. They require a license and have mandatory tests, so there's not much risk in spreading disease. No pimps or anything either. There may be stalkers or something, but since their job is legal, they can call the police for help.[/COLOR]

[Lia]

[quote name='Jeebs'][COLOR="Navy"]I don't think prostitution is illegal necessarily because it's considered immoral (although I'm sure that it has something to do with it), but because it helps spread STDs. I've heard several people say that that's a risk that both parties agree to take, but I don't think you're thinking about it enough.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

I disagree with that purely because say that it was legal. I'm sure that it would be a lot more regulated. Prostitution businesses would have certain criteria to follow, which would probably be along the lines of daily testing. Kind of like a health code.

[B]EDIT:[/B] Not to say that regulation would completely wipe out the possibility of STDs, but I'm sure it would be better than it is now.

[Rachmaninoff]

[quote name='Jeebs'][COLOR="Navy"]I don't think prostitution is illegal necessarily because it's considered immoral (although I'm sure that it has something to do with it), but because it helps spread STDs. I've heard several people say that that's a risk that both parties agree to take, but I don't think you're thinking about it enough.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]Wrong. I can't speak for other countries obviously, but the state of Nevada, here in the USA, has legal prostitution under certain conditions. Go and take a look here: [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Nevada"][U]Wiki[/U][/URL] and you'll see that STD's isn't really an issue, or rather they have strict regulations to prevent serious issues. So the real hang up over prostitution is people who object to it on moral grounds. Saying STD's is the real reason, when proper regulation keeps that from being an issue, isn't true.

If anything, STD's is more likely a problem with prostitution done illegally and without any form of regulation or testing to prevent STD's from spreading. Not that the system in Nevada is perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than nothing at all.

[Aaryanna_Mom]

While I won't argue that Nevada does at least [I]try[/I] to enforce regulations, like you said Darren, it's far from perfect. If anything, all the problems with that or rather from what I have read over the years only shows that for an industry that is barely legal, those who work in it still have next to no protection at all. Nevada could be argued as a case for better legalization as well as doing away with prostitution altogether.

Though to put that in prospective, you could say the same about a lot of progress over the years. Working conditions in the first half of the previous century are proof of that. I suspect that if it were to become legal, it would then start the road of constant battles to protect those who actually chose to work in the industry and not just those who are clients. In the end, I'd rather not see it at all, prostitution becoming legal that is.

[Jeebs]

[quote name='Lia']I disagree with that purely because say that it was legal. I'm sure that it would be a lot more regulated. Prostitution businesses would have certain criteria to follow, which would probably be along the lines of daily testing. Kind of like a health code.

[B]EDIT:[/B] Not to say that regulation would completely wipe out the possibility of STDs, but I'm sure it would be better than it is now.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Rachmaninoff']Wrong. I can't speak for other countries obviously, but the state of Nevada, here in the USA, has legal prostitution under certain conditions. Go and take a look here: Wiki and you'll see that STD's isn't really an issue, or rather they have strict regulations to prevent serious issues. So the real hang up over prostitution is people who object to it on moral grounds. Saying STD's is the real reason, when proper regulation keeps that from being an issue, isn't true.[/quote]

[COLOR="Navy"]Sorry if my post was confusing. I'm not too good with words. I was referring to street prostitution, since that's what most think about when they hear prostitution. It would be difficult to regulate street prostitution, and I think that that's part of the reason why it's illegal. That's why at the end of my post I said I don't see why brothels should be illegal. It probably is mainly a moral-based law though, but I'm sure STDs are part of the reason.[/COLOR]

[DeathKnight]

[quote name='Chabichou'][COLOR="#004a6f"]Having a safe city is good, and having an unsafe city is bad, unless you care to disagree.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[color=crimson]I disagree with your naive simplicity, lol.[/color]

[lea]

[quote name='Chabichou'][COLOR="#004a6f"] Having a safe city is good, and having an unsafe city is bad, unless you care to disagree.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Out of curiosity, if say a government was to legalize something like prostitution and have strict health regulations on it, how would it make a city dangerous? How would it make a city less safe?

[AzureWolf]

None of this thread makes any sense to me. It's getting worse now. "Prostitution is necessary?" What the hell? If it's necessary because people are in poverty or extreme circumstances and not in a situation they can make a choice, how does that support the notion that it should be legalized?

It's only necessary because of other problems. So instead of addressing those problems we should promote them more by legalizing prostitution? Again, what the freakin' hell?

Prostitution is not necessary. Poverty is not necessary. Extreme duress is not necessary. They exist, yes, but they are not good things to be promoted. You promote one, you promote the others. Sure, maybe we'll never be rid of these things entirely, but we should be trying to minimize them and the effect they have on the world.

I'm not saying legalizing prostitution is opening Pandora's box, but it will entice pimps and the like force people with pretty daughters or pretty girls into prostitution by putting them in an "extreme" situation. That's just one of the many effects of legalizing it.

[Inculta_Bellum]

What people do for a living is none of my business, but people should have more pride in themselves than to have to stoop to that level. Its just degrading for them. Why can't they find another way out? A good arguement could be made either way, but I'm on the side of "It's WRONG!"

I won't say that a prostitute's a bad person, but I will pity them.

[lea]

[quote name='AzureWolf']None of this thread makes any sense to me. It's getting worse now. "Prostitution is necessary?" What the hell? If it's necessary because people are in poverty or extreme circumstances and not in a situation they can make a choice, how does that support the notion that it should be legalized?[/QUOTE]

I could possibly be wrong, but I see other people who are arguing the use of prostitution as seeing a situation in extremes - I'm pretty sure I haven't seen anyone outright say that prostitution is necessary in general.

[Rachmaninoff]

[quote name='AzureWolf']None of this thread makes any sense to me. It's getting worse now. "Prostitution is necessary?" What the hell? If it's necessary because people are in poverty or extreme circumstances and not in a situation they can make a choice, how does that support the notion that it should be legalized?[/QUOTE]What's confusing is your post, no one has said it was [I]necessary[/I]. About the only thing that comes close is the implication in Aaryanna_Mom's post where she was talking about the aspect of better regulation being required [B]IF[/B] it became legal. Not quite the same thing as saying prostitution is necessary. It would help if you would actually quote who was saying it was necessary because I don't see anyone even coming close to saying that here. lol

[AzureWolf]

[quote name='Rachmaninoff']What's confusing is your post, no one has said it was [I]necessary[/I]. About the only thing that comes close is the implication in Aaryanna_Mom's post where she was talking about the aspect of better regulation being required [B]IF[/B] it became legal. Not quite the same thing as saying prostitution is necessary. It would help if you would actually quote who was saying it was necessary because I don't see anyone even coming close to saying that here. lol[/QUOTE]That was just my opening paragraph and pointing out one of the many reasons why this thread is making less and less sense. The rest of my post is about something people do when they have no other choice or "this is their best choice" because of their situation. People are forced into it, and no one has proven that it's a choice that isn't done when they don't have equal-paying but less degrading options.

[Aaryanna_Mom]

[quote name='AzureWolf']That was just my opening paragraph and pointing out one of the many reasons why this thread is making less and less sense. The rest of my post is about something people do when they have no other choice or "this is their best choice" because of their situation. People are forced into it, and no one has proven that it's a choice that isn't done when they don't have equal-paying but less degrading options.[/QUOTE]Your opening paragraph still made no sense. Also, please give actual examples of a place where it isn't done because they actually have equal-paying options. Until that actually happens to say that no one would actually chose such a job if given the choice of doing something else, is inaccurate. I'm assuming you meant to say that it wouldn't be chosen if they did have other options. You're also still making the assumption that because you or I think it's degrading, it must therefore[I] be[/I] degrading. That's stepping into morals and forcing your beliefs on someone else.

And not to burst your bubble, but the perception that people are forced into it is also misleading. Yes people are forced into it, but there are also plenty of people who actually chose to do it. It's a nice sentiment to think that no one would actually chose such a profession, but that's simply not true.

[AzureWolf]

[quote name='Aaryanna_Mom']Your opening paragraph still made no sense. Also, please give actual examples of a place where it isn't done because they actually have equal-paying options. Until that actually happens to say that no one would actually chose such a job if given the choice of doing something else, is inaccurate. I'm assuming you meant to say that it wouldn't be chosen if they did have other options. You're also still making the assumption that because you or I think it's degrading, it must therefore[I] be[/I] degrading. That's stepping into morals and forcing your beliefs on someone else.

And not to burst your bubble, but the perception that people are forced into it is also misleading. Yes people are forced into it, but there are also plenty of people who actually chose to do it. It's a nice sentiment to think that no one would actually chose such a profession, but that's simply not true.[/QUOTE]Ok, so in your ideal world, killing should not be illegal, because it's based on a moral bias that people should have the right to life. All laws are based on bias and some morality, whether it is yours or mine or someone else's. Some people believe that they are superior to others and therefore have more rights and the right to kill others. You are assuming too much and not looking more logically at this.

Either you assume nothing and allow everything, or you can admit that laws actually are based on morality.

If anyone is assuming anything, it is you. You have to accept that man-made laws are not 100% objective, or your assumptions that people should have equal rights should be thrown out the window too. Ultimately, with your line or reasoning, we could do nothing and say nothing. You're going too far with it, seriously.

And as far as going into it willingly, you can't hold me to a double standard. You don't have proof that people would go into it if they have other equal options. There's no job that has such high pay for such low qualifications. So, again, you have to hold yourself to your standards. The burden of proof is on both sides, but don't think it's only on mine.