2008 Presidential Campaign

[Rachmaninoff]

[quote name='Jeremiah']I predict that the actions of Bush will not necessarily dent the republican hopeful as much as you might think.[/QUOTE]Perhaps not in other states but in Utah? It's almost poetic how the Republicans were pretty arrogant about how much control they had over the state only to outright lose quite a bit of influence locally in less than a year. It's honestly to the point where quite a few die hard republican Mormons are more interested in voting for a democrat just to keep both Mike Huckabee and Mitt Romney [who ironically is Mormon] from being selected.

Mitt Romney, in an attempt to perhaps appear more open to the general public essentially put his foot in his mouth and contradicted what is considered fundamental Mormon doctrine. Trust me that was one of the stupidest things he could have ever said. I'm not going to bother repeating it since it wouldn't make sense as to why people are offended if you aren't Mormon. Anyway, he's far from popular here and at the moment Obama has more popularity here than he does.

I doubt that the state of Utah will end up going democrat in the elections, but it would certainly be interesting to see if we finally did, I mean the last time I understand was back in 1964. >_> Far to long if you ask me. I'm sure I'm not the only Utahan who is tired of being one of the most republican states in the US. XP

Anyway, I'm leaning more towards Obama myself, I just hope Hillary is out of the picture should that happen since I don't care for her at all.

[Heaven's Cloud]

[quote name='James'][font=franklin gothic medium]
In general I find that a lot of people who speak really venomously about political issues are the people who understand them the least - the truth, as they say, usually sits somewhere in the middle.
[/font][/QUOTE]

[color=indigo]I agree, the middle tends to be where rational people roam.

I am not Bush?s fan by any means but he has done a few good things in office. His work and aid and funding for PEPFAR (President?s emergency plan for AIDS relief) has been incredible and he really went far in making a statement being one of the first world leaders to be outspoken about the genocide in Darfur. Now, I am not saying that he hasn?t done far more than his fair share of dumb things but people do tend to forget about the good.

Also, I think good or bad, the President often ends up to be the scapegoat for the House and the Senates? blunders. If America really wanted to shake stuff up this year all of us citizens could simply vote out every congressional incumbent. That would really change the face of American politics.[/color]

[eleanor]

[font="trebuchet ms"]
The latest update for New Hampshire is that Hilary is winning with 14% of precinct reporting in... I'm surprised, but not disappointed. This makes things much more interesting. :)

[quote name='Jeremiah']I don't think it does. An America disillusioned with the war in Iraq still re-elected president Bush in 2004. I predict that the actions of Bush will not necessarily dent the republican hopeful as much as you might think.


I'm predicting that the presidential campaign will be a Giuliani/Obama race, and Obama will win. He's mad popular right now. :D[/QUOTE]

[font="trebuchet ms"] Well, I said in my post that people will realize it wasn't a Republican but Bush that damaged the US. I was implying that people won't automatically discount Republicans now. :3 But if you look at the numbers voting in the primaries/caucuses, more voters are voting for the Democratic party than the Republican, which I think says something. Not a huge difference, of course, but a little something. [/font]

Some of my classmates and I were talking about the presidential race, and I think the biggest problem is that people can't get past superficial details. People at my school hate Hilary because she's a woman, even if they don't admit that. At first they saw her as a heartless ***** because she happens to know how to work politically, but then when she got emotional yesterday people (at my school) see her as an emotional woman unfit for office. I was like, "are you being serious? Or are you just all half-retarded?"

All of the "reasons" I've heard for why people I know don't like Hilary Clinton are incredibly stupid, like "because she's using Bill to gain popularity" (wtf? Who wouldn't?) and "she didn't leave her husband when he cheated on her" (because that's what all women must do). It just makes me incredibly annoyed and sad. Even if I don't support Hilary as my foremost candidate, I still think she's has the greatest burden of running as a woman and I respect her for all the crap she goes through. Seriously, today some douchebag started yelling "Iron my shirt" at her assembly. Thankfully Hilary handled it in a classy way and the idiot was taken out of the auditorium.

But here's my opinion on all the candidates:
[size=4]Obama ≈ Hilary > Giuliani ≥ Edwards > everyone else.[/size] [/font]

[Inculta_Bellum]

Politics is a constantly shifting ocean. One minute someone (Clinton) is riding high on one of the best waves ever, and the next they're struggling to surface. The Democrats might nominate Clinton over Obama simply because there are still a lot of rascist whites in America. I live in South Carolina, and almost no one I've asked would vote for anything other than a white male Christian. Which is why Republicans have virtually carried the south for a while now. The Democrats at least have a fighting chance here with Clinton.

I don't intend to vote based on policy because all candidates would change them the instant they're sworn in. What nominee doesn't promise lower taxes, or at least avoids the issue altogether?

Instead I vote personality. Which is why I support Obama. God knows we need a young idealist with some huevos to stand up to his opponents. He is very friendly, smiles a lot, and puts people at ease. Reminds me a little of Bill Clinton. Which isn't totally good.

Republicans will always stand a chance at victory so long as the Democrats keep putting forth minority candidates. The race hasn't even made the third lap yet! Anybody could pull a victory.

[eleanor]

[quote name='Inculta_Bellum']I live in South Carolina, and almost no one I've asked would vote for anything other than a white male Christian. Which is why Republicans have virtually carried the south for a while now. The Democrats at least have a fighting chance here with Clinton.

[/QUOTE]

[font="trebuchet ms"] Um... South Carolina has the biggest black population, and like 40% of the Democratic caucus will be made up of black people. I really think Obama has a huge chance of winning the caucus. lol[/font]

[Adam]

I am personally a HUGE supporter of Obama.

Here are just five of many reasons (not even policy related):

[LIST]
[*]He'll help unite the parties: Obama is the Democrat that the most independents and Republicans would respect.Obama also has said he'll put Republicans on his cabinet, which would be a great start.
[*]He's rational vs. dogmatic: In the 100+ debates/interviews/appearances I've seen, he comes across as the most commonsense/rational of the candidates. Watch him debate Alan Keyes for the Senate, for example. He was also one of the few people who went out publicly against the war before it was popular
[*]He'll keep church and state separate.
[*]He's the best public speaker of the entire lot. It'll be great to have a president who can speak well
[*]He has a track record of ethics accomplishments in his short Senate term
[/LIST]

I don't think I've ever been as excited for a candidate

[Raiha]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]While it's nice people can find a candidate to be excited about, I'm really more interested in their positions on the issues. And since everyone knows I'm a disgusting redneck knuckle dragging throwback crazy gun toting psychotic conservative...

Let me just say that while I dislike Hillary and Obama both, it's not because of gender or race but because I think they're both howling socialists.

And I'm hard pressed to find a solid record for ANY candidate that I can really get behind, much less a single on with positions that I actually like on issues. But since Ronald Reagan and Nixon are both no longer in the land of the living, I think I'll spend the rest of this election feeling enormously unfulfilled. No candidate running actually succeeds in making my nipples hard.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[eleanor]

[font="trebuchet ms"] CNN has projected Hilary as the winner!! This is exciting... but not all the college towns have reported, I wonder if Obama's surge will overtake Hilary's numbers.

[b]edit[/b]: And [i]NYT[/i]! It's legit now. lol[/font]

[DeathKnight]

[color=crimson]Clinton really needed New Hampshire. I do not think it can give her the same level of momentum she had, say, a few months ago, but it steals the thunder from Obama. Another overwhelming victory for him would have been a kick while she was down.

I have no idea what to think about McCain. His campaign was sinking in the summer, but now he has stolen NH from Romney. Maybe he can still go places.[/color]

[Lia]

[quote name='Lunox'][font="trebuchet ms"] Um... South Carolina has the biggest black population, and like 40% of the Democratic caucus will be made up of black people. I really think Obama has a huge chance of winning the caucus. lol[/font][/QUOTE]

I was actually just about to say the same thing.

[eleanor]

[font="trebuchet ms"]Hilary's win certainly creates more tension for both Obama fans and Clinton fans. Right now I'm on the fence between Obama and Hilary, so whoever wins is more like something interesting to watch rather than anxiety. I was so pumped for Super Tuesday... too bad I can't vote in the primaries. I will exert peer pressure, lol. [/font]

[Retribution]

[quote name='Lunox'][font="trebuchet ms"] CNN has projected Hilary as the winner!! This is exciting... but not all the college towns have reported, I wonder if Obama's surge will overtake Hilary's numbers.

[b]edit[/b]: And [i]NYT[/i]! It's legit now. lol[/font][/QUOTE]
[font=Arial]Unfortunately, there was no surge to come from Hanover.

I'm truly surprised Hillary did so well against Obama in New Hampshire, especially when all the polling gave him a ~10% lead. I'll be frank with everyone and assume this was due to doubts with his lack of extensive experience, and perhaps his race as well.

But I'd say the race truly begins now. Both Clinton and Obama have one in their pocket. If I had to make a guess, I'd say Hillary gets Nevada and Obama gets South Carolina.[/font]

[Raiha]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]So Hillary squeaked by under the wire despite what the polls say. And this is where I trot out my VAST...or not so vast knowledge on the way polls work. Essentially she beat Obama with both her gigantic New Hampshire machine and the weather. The right people voted for Obama but they simply didn't turn out en masse.

In short, Hillary got the geezer, the looser, and the stupid vote. Everyone uninformed and generally retarded voted for her. She must be so proud...

But as far as McCain goes, the state of New Hampshire was essentially built for him to win in. He hadn't been campaigning hard in Iowa, but he'd been working New Hampshire like- and that's where I cut myself off before I use a totally inappropriate barnyard metaphor.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[eleanor]

[quote name='Retribution'][font=Arial]

I'm truly surprised Hillary did so well against Obama in New Hampshire, especially when all the polling gave him a ~10% lead. I'll be frank with everyone and assume this was due to doubts with his lack of extensive experience, and perhaps his race as well.
[/font][/QUOTE]

[font="trebuchet ms"] Some people in my gov class today brought up that the actual polling took place about one week to several days before the election, so it's possible that the Iowa results affected is somehow. Like maybe the Obama supporters thought he would do fine without their help, or something. I have no idea if this is true, though.[/font]

[Shy]

[size=1]There a lot of factors that could have pushed people to vote for Obama rather than Clinton. Of course, at this point in the race it may also be in Hillary's best interest to appear trail behind right now. The national media is giving Barack Obama so much attention right now that voter fatigue is inevitable, especially since he isn't saying anything of subtance. (Change is not a message!) Obama needs to make his viewpoint clear to the American people while they still care.

The real loser of New Hampshire was Edwards. Unless he can turn around his campaign before the Big 20 primaries he's screwed. Clinton's campaign will pick up a lot of steam once Edwards is officially out of the race, since she's much more of an 'establishment' Democrat that Obama is.

-Shy[/size]

[eleanor]

[quote name='Shy'][size=1]The national media is giving Barack Obama so much attention right now that voter fatigue is inevitable, especially since he isn't saying anything of subtance. (Change is not a message!) Obama needs to make his viewpoint clear to the American people while they still care.
[/size][/QUOTE]

[font="trebuchet ms"] Quoted for truth... although I suppose many of the candidates are like that. Obama and Giuliani seem to stand out the most for this, though.[/font]

[SunfallE]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"][quote name='Sandy;802199]I know that, Crystia, but I was speaking in a general sense of [I]who[/I] was chosen. So like it or not, Bush was the Americans' choice. :/[/QUOTE][quote name='DeathKnight;802200][color=crimson']In 2004 it was a choice between an idiot and a dumbass. Lose-lose.[/color][/quote]DeathKnight is right Sandy... We didn't have a real choice in 2004. I almost didn't even bother to vote at all that year. XP[QUOTE=Rachmaninoff']Mitt Romney, in an attempt to perhaps appear more open to the general public essentially put his foot in his mouth and contradicted what is considered fundamental Mormon doctrine. Trust me that was one of the stupidest things he could have ever said. I'm not going to bother repeating it since it wouldn't make sense as to why people are offended if you aren't Mormon. Anyway, he's far from popular here and at the moment Obama has more popularity here than he does.

I doubt that the state of Utah will end up going democrat in the elections, but it would certainly be interesting to see if we finally did, I mean the last time I understand was back in 1964. >_> Far to long if you ask me. I'm sure I'm not the only Utahan who is tired of being one of the most republican states in the US. XP

Anyway, I'm leaning more towards Obama myself, I just hope Hillary is out of the picture should that happen since I don't care for her at all.[/QUOTE]I never liked Romney and when I listened to that speech of his shortly before Christmas... I just laughed and laughed. Some will still blindly vote for him, but that really was a stupid move on his part. Even if what he said is accurate. XP

Anyway, I'd love to see us go democratic as well, but I just don't see it happening anytime soon. >_< And if he makes it, I'd probably vote for Obama. Hillary? Not likely, unless the opposition is worse. If that happens, it'll be the first time I've voted Republican since... well... since I could vote. :p[/FONT][/COLOR]

[eleanor]

[quote name='SunfallE'][COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"]

Anyway, I'd love to see us go democratic as well, but I just don't see it happening anytime soon. >_< And if he makes it, I'd probably vote for Obama. Hillary? Not likely, unless the opposition is worse. If that happens, it'll be the first time I've voted Republican since... well... since I could vote. :p[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[font="trebuchet ms"] Why do you not support Hilary Clinton? I know that sounds defensive, but I'm not trying to be aggressive... I legitimately want to hear reasons because I'm curious as to why many people don't like her, other than "she gives me a bad vibe". [/font]

[SunfallE]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"][quote name='Lunox'][font="trebuchet ms"] Why do you not support Hilary Clinton? I know that sounds defensive, but I'm not trying to be aggressive... I legitimately want to hear reasons because I'm curious as to why many people don't like her, other than "she gives me a bad vibe". [/font][/QUOTE]It's simple really, I don't agree with the concept of universal health care. I've no interest in voting in someone who will waste time attempting to bring this about when I don't want to see it period. Though I think American needs health reform, I don't agree with the direction she wishes to take it.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Lia]

[quote name='Lunox'][font="trebuchet ms"] Why do you not support Hilary Clinton? I know that sounds defensive, but I'm not trying to be aggressive... I legitimately want to hear reasons because I'm curious as to why many people don't like her, other than "she gives me a bad vibe". [/font][/QUOTE]

There's a couple key differences, depending on what your beliefs are...

One is that Hillary wants to allows individual states to decide if they want to acknowledge same sex couples who are married in other states. Obama wants to make void DOMA.

Another important issue that a lot of people are being torn between... Is the fact that Obama is a fresh, clean slate. Hillary on the other hand owes many favors. Political/Military favors, that is. Many see that as a major flaw, and think it will hinder her in being able to make way in her own uninfluenced change of directions.

I'm not going to go too much into the topic, as I'm not here to start a debate about this. I see strong aspects in both candidates. I personally, am for Obama. However, I don't think Hillary would be a bad choice either. Either being elected (which it seems the race is going to come down to them neck in neck), is going to be a change for the better.

I would be a little less vague, but I've had a decent amount of alcohol this evening and I don't want to say anything I'm going to regret, haha.

[DeathKnight]

[color=crimson]Clinton comes off as being sleazy. She has experience, this is true - but I do not at all want to know how many people owe her favors and how many people she owes favors to. I feel content deluding myself that Obama is any different, but I do have a [b]hope[/b] that he is not as firmly diseased by Washington's miasma as Hillary seems.[/color]

[eleanor]

[font="trebuchet ms"] It's just nice to hear real reasons for once. :)

I like Hilary and Obama, although I do have to say that I'm not very optimistic that Obama is less obligated to various PACs or anything.[/font]

[Rachmaninoff]

I blame this entirely on Shy for giving me the link, but now that I've checked it out and actually played it... I have to share it: [URL="http://www.campaigngame.us/index.php"][U]Game[/U][/URL] It's funnier than all get out and so true as far as politics go. :p I lost though, since I wasn't mean enough. >_<;; So I'll have to try it again and behave like a real politician if I want to win!

Seriously though, it's hilarious, even with it's cheesy overly dramatic soap operaish music to go along with it. Hehe.

[eleanor]

[font="trebuchet ms"] [img]http://xs223.xs.to/xs223/08045/victory834.png[/img]

Yes! Victory...for Giuliani. XD Now for multiplayer...[/font]

[Shy]

[quote name='Lunox'][font="trebuchet ms"]Yes! Victory...for Giuliani. XD Now for multiplayer...[/font][/QUOTE][size=1]If anyone ever wants to play a round of Campaign just let me know over AIM or PM. I'm completely addicted to this thing.

-Shy[/size]