Wal-Mart Is Good For The US?

[Rachmaninoff]

I promise I haven't gone insane, but perhaps the person who wrote this article here: [URL="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22719054/"][U]Wal-Mart[/U][/URL] has? Not that I have anything personal against Wal-Mart, but I find I just can't agree with some of the claims in the article.[quote]It may surprise ? or even infuriate ? critics, but a new study finds Wal-Mart benefits rather than harms the American economy.[/quote]Now I'm kind of wondering, since when? I won't argue that lower prices are nice but at the same time, every time one of the super centers opens, local businesses in the area, especially the smaller ones end up closing their doors with a year of the store opening. I should know I lost a part time job to that myself several years ago, the small store I worked at just couldn't compete, period. Maybe this isn't true in other parts of the US, but where I live, so far it has been true.[quote]The study shows that between 1985 and 2003, personal income, overall employment and retail employment grew faster in counties with a Wal-Mart than in those without one.[/quote]I believe the word for that is coincidence since usually areas that get a super center get it because of having enough population growth to support having a store that big in the area. Anyway, feel free to disagree, tell me how Wal-Mart is so wonderful, or come along and tell me how horrible it is. I've heard a lot both ways so I really don't know which it is anymore. XP

[Desbreko]

[color=#4B0082]Something people always fail to mention when making the, "Wal-Mart destroys small business jobs," argument is that a Wal-Mart opening up in town also creates a whole lot of new jobs at the same time. And I've yet to see anyone making that argument actually give hard numbers for the number of jobs lost vs the number created.

Personally, I don't see how anyone can think that doing business more efficiently and thus being able to charge lower prices is a bad thing for the economy. Yeah, it sucks for some individuals who can't compete, but the population as a whole benefits by having more money to spend elsewhere. It seems to me that arguing that Wal-Mart is bad for the economy as a whole is, in effect, arguing that being wasteful is a good thing.[/color]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='Desbreko'][color=#4B0082] And I've yet to see anyone making that argument actually give hard numbers for the number of jobs lost vs the number created.[/color][/QUOTE]I don't know what the number is for jobs created, but here's an interesting tidbit as to the number of jobs lost on account of getting products via imports on Wal-Mart's part. [URL="http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/ib235"][U]Article[/U][/URL] I don't know how accurate that is though, but if it is, that's a lot of jobs. In the end, I think it's not so clear cut as a simple [I]doing business more efficiently[/I] type of deal. And like Rach, I've heard both types of stories in regards to Wal-Mart.[/COLOR]

[Heaven's Cloud]

[color=indigo]My only problem with Wal-Mart (as well as chain stores like Best Buy, Circuit City, Dick’s, ect.) is how they manipulate local governments to help finance their building endeavors.

These large chains often petition local governments for “incremental tax financing”, threatening to open in a nearby township if the local government doesn’t comply. “Incremental tax financing” is a fancy way of stating that the company will charge sales tax and use a percentage of it to cover their building expenses. For example, if your state has a 6% sales tax Wal-Mart might keep half of that money to cover building expenses.

Rent or ownership of a retail space is not cheap for smaller companies, actually it is typically their largest expense after inventory. These large retail stores have the distinct advantage of not really paying for their buildings and therefore instantly have a competitive advantage over small companies. This practice is precariously close to violating anti-trust laws and really should be abolished.

That being written, I really have no problem with Wal-Mart when it comes to an employee/human rights ethical discussion. They consistently pay their part time employees more than other similar retailers pay their part time employees, they hire a huge amount of disabled and senior citizens, and offer a comprehensive health care package to full-time employees (offering health care to part-time employees is not the norm in the vast majority of companies).
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[Korey]

[FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]I work in a chain of supermarket stores (Albertsons) and I think that Wal-Mart isn't exactly the land of roses and sweet honeydew as people would like to think of it as. Even as a consumer, I am compelled to spend my money elsewhere because of the things I've experienced in Wal-Mart. It may just be where I live but I find the employees at Wal-Mart to be:

A) Not knowledgeable of their store
B) Lacking Good Customer Service
C) Lacking Basic Human Interaction Skills

Working at a place that requires good customer service from all of its employees and takes customer service very seriously, I think that this kind of service should be provided by every store. I guess Wal-Mart assumes that people will shop there regardless of how bad customer service gets, because of low prices. Lemme be the first to say I will shop at a more expensive store if I can be met with great customer service.

I can see why some people are hesitant to work at Wal-Mart as well. The part-timers there get less than 40 hours and are constantly competing with several other people to earn a decent wage. They work a VERY inflexible schedule, which doesn't allow for family emergencies or deviations in the schedule due to school or other circumstances. You work when you're supposed to work, or you will be replaced. This is just one horror story I've heard from a co-worker of mine who used to work at Wal-Mart.

As far as Wal-Mart being bad for local buisness, I think that is more of the consumers fault than Wal-Mart. It's simple logic. "Why would I want to pay almost 2-3 dollars more for groceries when I can buy more of it or get it cheaper at Wal-Mart?" If the customer sees a better buy, they are most likely gonna go for it. You'll still have a few die hards who will attend the local stores, but for the most part, people will migrate towards the better buy, because it saves them money in the long run. So Wal-Mart ruining buisnesses seems like a little man's view of the story. Blame the consumers, not the company.[/FONT]

[Heaven's Cloud]

[quote name='Korey'][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]
I can see why some people are hesitant to work at Wal-Mart as well. The part-timers there get less than 40 hours and are constantly competing with several other people to earn a decent wage. They work a VERY inflexible schedule, which doesn't allow for family emergencies or deviations in the schedule due to school or other circumstances. You work when you're supposed to work, or you will be replaced. This is just one horror story I've heard from a co-worker of mine who used to work at Wal-Mart.

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[color=indigo]I think this is a store by store problem that can arise anywhere. I work with a lady that used to manage our nearby Wal-Mart and, while she loathes the place, she always said that schedules were flexible, they loved hiring students, and the only scheduling problems that occured were when people that worked "back-up" shifts did not answer their phone. It seems like the manager of your friend's Wal-Mart store was probably just a jerk when it came to scheduling issues.

I do agree with your points about customer service. [/color]

[Retribution]

[font=Arial]My big qualm with Wal-Mart is its low prices. Yes, you heard me.

You want to know how they get their prices so low? Paying the sweatshop workers less than normal so they can minimize losses. There is workplace intimidation, and they primarily hire women and children so that it's easier to physically discourage unionization and workplace rebellion. I mean long story short, they're wage-slaves to the company. I'm well aware that almost all major companies use sweatshops, but Wal-Mart has arguably the most abysmal conditions for its workers.[/font]

[John]

Anyone could've told you that bringing big chains into a town generally benefits the economy, and I think things like a chain store's resultant cultural conditioning, a lack of variety (and sometimes quality) in products, and the issue of the national/global effects of what a corporation like Wal-Mart does with the massive amount of money we give it are
maybe more important than the immediate economic effects.

Fortunately, the internet fixes everything. We're buying a lot more from websites, which seem to be a somewhat more balanced market (so far), and so we might eventually just use actual stores for things like clothes and groceries, which, while they can be bought online, are usually better to pick out in person.

[Pumpkin]

[quote name='Korey'][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]I work in a chain of supermarket stores (Albertsons) and I think that Wal-Mart isn't exactly the land of roses and sweet honeydew as people would like to think of it as. Even as a consumer, I am compelled to spend my money elsewhere because of the things I've experienced in Wal-Mart. It may just be where I live but I find the employees at Wal-Mart to be:

A) Not knowledgeable of their store
B) Lacking Good Customer Service
C) Lacking Basic Human Interaction Skills

Working at a place that requires good customer service from all of its employees and takes customer service very seriously, I think that this kind of service should be provided by every store. I guess Wal-Mart assumes that people will shop there regardless of how bad customer service gets, because of low prices. Lemme be the first to say I will shop at a more expensive store if I can be met with great customer service.

I can see why some people are hesitant to work at Wal-Mart as well. The part-timers there get less than 40 hours and are constantly competing with several other people to earn a decent wage. They work a VERY inflexible schedule, which doesn't allow for family emergencies or deviations in the schedule due to school or other circumstances. You work when you're supposed to work, or you will be replaced. This is just one horror story I've heard from a co-worker of mine who used to work at Wal-Mart.

As far as Wal-Mart being bad for local buisness, I think that is more of the consumers fault than Wal-Mart. It's simple logic. "Why would I want to pay almost 2-3 dollars more for groceries when I can buy more of it or get it cheaper at Wal-Mart?" If the customer sees a better buy, they are most likely gonna go for it. You'll still have a few die hards who will attend the local stores, but for the most part, people will migrate towards the better buy, because it saves them money in the long run. So Wal-Mart ruining buisnesses seems like a little man's view of the story. Blame the consumers, not the company.[/FONT][/QUOTE]

[size=2][font=tahoma][color=#FF3366] Ahem...I think Walmart employees get a really bad rap. I've worked for BelAir, considered a higher end grocery store with some expensive prices and they were incredibly rude and mean to me. Ironically I was let go, because I couldn't get a long with my manager (which for the things he said to me...I COULD sue for harassment but im not going there) and I got a seasonal job at Walmart to make ends meat seeing as how I'm on my own and in college.

At first I was very skeptical, cause of all the stupid "horror" stories about walmart, it honestly was like any other retail job I've had in the past. Kohls. Home Depot. It's all the same. However I have to admit, Walmart gave me LOTS of hours part time, and I actually had to request LESS then what they gave me so thats not how it is. If you haven't worked at Walmart, then don't believe any rumors. And actually I think I was a very good employee seeing as how I knew where everything was, and most of the managers knew about everything. They also worked around my time schedule for school and were very laid-back nice people.

Most people wouldn't think that Walmart would also pay you based on experience, I had 1-2 years worth so they raised my pay based on that. Most people wouldn't think a cashier would make 10 to 12 an hour at Walmart either but I know plenty who got hired with that wage and thats a whole lot better then working in clothing retail (which in sacramento is always min wage).

So my experience with working at Walmart has been fairly good even though I didn't keep the job. It wasn't as bad as people thought. As a consumer? Heck yes I'm going to buy that grape juice at Walmart. Why? Prices. I'm poor, this is what I can afford, why spend $100 on that make up case when you can get it for $20 at Walmart? Honestly, for the people around here most cant even afford that.

However you gotta love savemart...



EDIT: Yes John. You are right on the money. [/font][/size][/color]

[John]

[quote name='Pumpkin'][SIZE=2][FONT=tahoma][COLOR=#ff3366]I got a seasonal job at Walmart to make ends meat seeing as how I'm on my own and in college.[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE][/quote] [IMG]http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/45/endsmeatfv5.jpg[/IMG]

[Raiha]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Funny story, Hillary Clinton is/was on the board of directors for Wal-Mart. But I digress.

I happen to dislike Wal-Mart if only because it's always distressingly messy, totally disorganized, and generally a scene of ABSOLUTE chaos. I prefer Target because generally the employees can at least direct me in the general correct direction of what I need, I don't trip over merchandise littering the floor, and I'm not afraid of getting stabbed in Aisle 6.

But as far as the economic and ethical questions go? I'm a die hard free market capitalist. And Retribution, although cute, is totally wrong about how they pay sweat shops less than other sweat shops. Virtually everything in the bloody store comes from China. Now don't get me wrong, I don't care much for China in general, but if Wal-Mart wants to do business their way, I say let em. If you don't like Wal-Mart, vote with your feet. Go to Target, or K-mart, or any other similar if slightly more expensive store. Trying to close down a company just because they seem to be doing very well strikes me as odious.

That and I think companies should be allowed to do what they want. Government regulation: Higher prices for stuff. Government getting out of our noses: Abuses on occasion, but generally better for everyone involved.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[SunfallE]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"]What I find interesting about Wal-Mart is that if faced with a free market that really paid workers instead of being able to take advantage of countries that can pay less, well it's pretty obvious that they wouldn't be able to offer those low prices at all. lol Anyway...

I've heard both from friends and in general. People who it was a positive experience and people who had a totally negative experience working for them. I do shop there, but often I go to Macey's instead. The prices are close enough that it's worth it to avoid the mess at the Wal-Mart here. XP

Ironically I worked indirectly for Wal-Mart when I was driving a Semi. I wasn't working directly for them, but I did through the company I was with, working out of one of their distribution centers. As a truck driver, it was steady, reliable work since they always needed goods delivered. I must have spent over a year all over the west coast delivering frozen and fresh goods to different Wal-Mart stores. It was a good job since they did all the loading and unloading, all you had to do was take it to the location.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Desbreko]

[color=#4B0082]A [i]lot[/i] of big corporations outsource manufacturing to foreign countries to cut costs. Singling out Wal-Mart for it isn't exactly fair.

Besides, if they were forced to pay American level wages and raise their prices, that hurts the economy too. Yes, if they switched to American manufacturing it would create some jobs, but would that benefit outweigh a large portion of the population (particularly lower income households) not having as much money to spend due to higher prices? People with less money are people who don't buy as much and when people don't buy as much that slows the economy. (Hence the reason Bush is [url=http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/18/bush.economy/index.html][u]calling for a temporary tax relief[/u][/url] right now and members of Congress are agreeing.) Unless I saw some good estimates pointing to the contrary I'd have a hard time believing the extra jobs would be better for the economy.

Also, the Wal-Mart where I live is always clean, usually uncluttered, and their employees are generally polite and helpful. People who bash the entire chain based on bad experiences in only a single store are hardly being reasonable.[/color]

[The13thMan]

[COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]I haven't read the article or any posts beyond the first one. I just wanted to jump in and say that studies are so often misinterpreted that it really is difficult to filter out the bs without going in and looking for yourself. A gross amount of people fail to realize the complexities of interpreting data. And the general media love to take one underqualified person's opinion and represent it as fact. This is why i hate the media.

I love walmart, i went there today... bought some zebra cakes. I love those damn things. And i love walmart for providing them. Now if only walmart would start dealing crack i wouldn't have to go to two different places for my evenings of ecstacy. Oh ho ho, he he he. I'm just kidding kids. Crack is wack.

Walmart might flush out the tiny businesses but who knows what effect it has on the overall economy? There's just too much information to decipher. Who the flip cares? ...well, don't answer that. Instead let me just add that i don't. Wink.
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[DeathKnight]

[color=crimson]Haha, these people are poor! They need this Wal*Mart! Instead of working on improving the conditions of society, the economy, and the disadvantages of rampant capitalism, give them cheap ****! Duh what else would you do?

You guys are a hoot.[/color]

[Desbreko]

[quote name='DeathKnight'][color=crimson]You guys are a hoot.[/color][/QUOTE][color=#4B0082]I lolled at the irony of a fluffy owl saying this. :p[/color]

[eleanor]

[font="trebuchet ms"] I dislike Walmart, mostly because my family owns a grocery store and ever since Walmart moved into town it's been struggling. But I also like capitalism and shop at Target all the time, so it's a complicated relationship. lol

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[Rachmaninoff]

[quote name='Korey;803154][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"] So Wal-Mart ruining buisnesses seems like a little man's view of the story. Blame the consumers, not the company.[/FONT][/QUOTE]I can see what you are saying and yet at the same time, consumers aren't the only problem. That responsibility needs to go both ways, not just on the consumers. Corporations need to be accountable for their practices in getting consumers those 'lower' prices. And I'm referring to the conditions in China where many of those cheaper goods are made.[quote name='Desbreko;803226][color=#4B0082]A [i]lot[/i'] of big corporations outsource manufacturing to foreign countries to cut costs. Singling out Wal-Mart for it isn't exactly fair.[/color][/quote]Well I'm not trying to say Wal-Mart is the only one who does this. But the are one of the biggest companies out there that does and last I heard nearly seventy percent of what they sell comes straight from China. I could be wrong on that though.[QUOTE=DeathKnight'][color=crimson]Haha, these people are poor! They need this Wal*Mart! Instead of working on improving the conditions of society, the economy, and the disadvantages of rampant capitalism, give them cheap ****! Duh what else would you do?

You guys are a hoot.[/color][/QUOTE]Like a two inch band aid on a foot long gash. Hardly effective and I agree.

Anyway, I still think that though the concept of cheaper goods is good for the economy, we are far from even being close to doing it in a manner that really helps the economy. XP Oh and for the record? I rarely shop there. Though whether or not the places I do go to are any better is another matter. I honestly don't know.

[SaiyanPrincessX]

[SIZE="1"][B]Korey[/B][QUOTE]I work in a chain of supermarket stores (Albertsons) and I think that Wal-Mart isn't exactly the land of roses and sweet honeydew as people would like to think of it as.[/QUOTE] Albertsons?! I remember that store! I'm from AZ, so this excites me since I no longer live there. :(


[quote name='Neuvoxraiha'][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]
I happen to dislike Wal-Mart if only because it's always distressingly messy, totally disorganized, and generally a scene of ABSOLUTE chaos. I prefer Target because generally the employees can at least direct me in the general correct direction of what I need, I don't trip over merchandise littering the floor, and I'm not afraid of getting stabbed in Aisle 6.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]
I totaly agree with you on this. Most of the Wal-Marts I've been to have been like this, especially the one near me, and my city/town is suppose to "have money". You'd think they'd fix up wally world. :/ Although, sometimes Walmart has stuff that Target doesn't.[/SIZE]

[Retribution]

[quote name='Neuvoxraiha']But as far as the economic and ethical questions go? I'm a die hard free market capitalist. And Retribution, although cute, is totally wrong about how they pay sweat shops less than other sweat shops.[/QUOTE]
[font=Arial]This statement is simply uninformed. Even a cursory google search for something as simple as "wal-mart sweatshops" yields an overabundance of information. I mean, here's a [url=http://www.pbs.org/itvs/storewars/stores3.html][b]throwaway example[/b][/url] of Wal-Marts terrible business practices. I encourage you to read the page, specifically the link to the chart at the very bottom of the page.

[QUOTE]That and I think companies should be allowed to do what they want. Government regulation: Higher prices for stuff. Government getting out of our noses: Abuses on occasion, but generally better for everyone involved.[/QUOTE]
Industrial Revolution redux, ne1?? lol[/font]