YOU FASCISTS...my first complaint thread

[Heaven's Cloud]

[color=indigo]I have a complaint. Well it isn’t so much a complaint as it is an observation of a trend that kind of bugs me. Since returning I have noticed that when a thread strays off topic, even a little, moderators seem to be quick to pull out the “I’m warning you people” card. Now, I understand that all the mods want to avoid having threads sidetracked or overwhelmed by moronic dribble. That being typed, I think that some you mods are being a bit too, uhm, proactive.

To provide an example I am going to throw SunfallE’s post in the “Evolution” thread under the bus (nothing personal, this example is just the freshest and I also think that you’ll take far less personal offense than some other mods might). [/color]

[quote name='SunfallE'][COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"]I've removed a post for nitpicking/arguing instead of what the thread is for... you know... [I]debating[/I]. And from now on, further posts doing the same or arguing with staff will be removed, as Rachmaninoff already said, lets chill and lay off the other nonsense already. Most of you are fine and I appreciate that, so lets keep it that way. Thanks.
[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[color=indigo]Often times in a debate, discussion, or conversation it takes a little bit of nitpicking or arguing for one party to understand the other party. For example, earlier in this thread indifference accused Nerdsy of nitpicking a point she made in the thread. I, like Nerdsy, didn’t understand indifference’s point, so it was only through Nerdsy’s nitpicking that I was able to gain a little clarity.

Also, SunfallE states “[posts] arguing with the staff will be removed”. Staff members make some pretty dumb comments sometimes and those dumb comments deserved to be argued with (I know, I used to be on the staff). I think Nerdsy thought (as did I) that indifference had made a dumb and faulty comment trying to prove her point, however, it was only by making nitpicky responses that Nerdsy was able to gain clarification and discover that indifference’s response was not in fact dumb, but actually poignant.

If this was the only instance of this trend occurring I wouldn’t have brought it up. But I have noticed similar circumstances occurring and it bugs me enough that I thought I would whine about it a little.[/color]

[SunfallE]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"]I'm more than happy to own up to sounding like a jerk since I can see how my comment was taken the wrong way. In fact once I'm done here I'm going to go and edit it out since upon reflection I can see how it's not clear.

For starters, there is absolutely nothing wrong with coming back and pointing out what seems to be a fallacy in someone's statement in order to get clarification, like what Nerdsy did over indifference's statement. That is not what I meant about arguing with staff. What I was referring to was the request to not use caps since online that's the same as yelling, and the request to relax.

Coming back and posting [I]I did nothing[/I] after those requests, with no explanation or attempt to say hey, you didn't understand what I meant, is, in my opinion. Meaningless arguing. Not like the other where it clarified what indifference meant. I don't consider that arguing.

I'm sorry if I was not clear and I appreciate you pointing out how my statement came across in a harsh manner. Especially since that was not my intent. ^_~[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Nomurah!]

[SIZE="1"][COLOR="hotPink"]SunfallE is actually a really nice lady. So, if you somehow don't believe that she didn't mean it in that way... Then. Think of her as a warm cute panda bear. That's how nice she is. (didn't mean for this to sound creepy lol)

However... alot of the mods can be meanies sometimes. Us regular members try to ignore their ignorance, and sometimes even leave.. Sometimes they can't see that they're in no way helping anyone... I hope I don't get in trouble for a bit of the truth, here. :]

But, here is not the case.

So, everyone be happy. Resolved and adjourned, yes?[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[Raiha]

[quote name='Whoa, Mann'][SIZE="1"][COLOR="hotPink"]

So, everyone be happy. Resolved and adjourned, yes?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]You should save those blandishments for the threads where people get all riled up and start spamming the CAPS lock button. In essence, I can see how things were taken out of context.

The word cluster...screw... is starting to be more and more applicable. But in the meantime this is something that deserves discussion not just a quick dismissal. But seriously Charlie, you are JUST discovering OB is a fascist state? We've come to accept this for some time now. It's just part of life. Kinda like living in Italy in the 1930s.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Nomurah!]

[quote name='Neuvoxraiha'][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]You should save those blandishments for the threads where people get all riled up and start spamming the CAPS lock button. In essence, I can see how things were taken out of context.

The word cluster...screw... is starting to be more and more applicable. But in the meantime this is something that deserves discussion not just a quick dismissal. But seriously Charlie, you are JUST discovering OB is a fascist state? We've come to accept this for some time now. It's just part of life. Kinda like living in Italy in the 1930s.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Haha, that post made me <3 you.

[SunfallE]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"][quote name='Whoa, Mann'][SIZE="1"][COLOR="hotPink"]However... alot of the mods can be meanies sometimes. Us regular members try to ignore their ignorance, and sometimes even leave.. Sometimes they can't see that they're in no way helping anyone... I hope I don't get in trouble for a bit of the truth, here. :]

But, here is not the case.

So, everyone be happy. Resolved and adjourned, yes?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/QUOTE]Hmmm... Just to be clear... I wasn't moving for a dismissal of the concern, only owning up for how my original comment came across the wrong way. By all means, if we are doing something that a member feels is too strict or overreacting, etc. Then this is the best place to bring up that concern. Since like my own comment, sometimes we don't realize we are being to harsh or strict.

I don't mind someone pointing out that I sound like some Fascist. Because it's easy to be misunderstood or to make a point only to later realize that you got it all wrong. And if people feel like we are coming across that way, the only way we'll find out is if someone says something. ^_~[/FONT][/COLOR]

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]I think this just proves that it can be really difficult to interpet stuff the way it's intended on the Internet.

I've deliberately stayed out of the evolution thread (partly because we've had a billion of them so far), so I haven't been aware of any of this until now.

I know sometimes I might say something that gets taken the wrong way, or I'll read something someone else has said and I'll misinterpret it. It happens.

I don't see a general trend on the site where people can't debate with Moderators, though. Unfortunately for Moderators it's difficult because they are charged with having to keep a discussion above board while still also being a participant. Striking that balance can be tough for anyone.

If members have a disagreement with a Moderator though, it should generally be handled via PM. This forum is really used for either suggestions or site-wide issues (like a problem with a particular rule or something along those lines).

Of course, if something can't be resolved, you can always speak to myself, Dagger or Desbreko and have it resolved. :catgirl: [/font]

[Heaven's Cloud]

[quote name='Myself][color=indigo] Also, SunfallE states “[posts'] arguing with the staff will be removed”. Staff members make some pretty dumb comments sometimes and those dumb comments deserved to be argued with (I know, I used to be on the staff).[/color][/quote]

[color=indigo]Hmmm, maybe I should have excluded this from my original post because it really distracts from my intended issue.

To clarify again, I have no problem with SunfallE. I used this thread as an example because it was the most recent occurrence of a moderator warning members for straying off topic just a little. I have noticed similar instances occurring at least a half dozen times in other threads and other forum areas (on a side note, this is the first instance when SunfallE was the moderator doing the warning).

Maybe it is just my perception, if no one else has noticed that this is an issue then I’ll quit my whining. I am not much of a complainer though (I don’t actually remember having a complaint with any facet of the OB ever) so I figure that if this is bothering me it has to bother other members as well.

Oh, and SunfallE, I do appreciate how receptive you are. I am glad you didn’t take my post as a personal attack; then again, I figured you wouldn’t, that is why I chose your post as an example.

James, I posted here because I thought that other members could weigh in. I am not criticizing a moderator for a single issue, but rather a trying to point out a fault that I have been noticing with moderation in general. If I was to PM you or Desk and you replied “I am not noticing this trend” regardless of your intentions I would interpret your response as dismissive. Afterall, this isn’t an issue that directly affects you. However, if other members say “hey Charlie, quit being such a cry baby” I’ll understand that it is just my perception of the issue and I can apologize for being a whiny little…well you know. [/color]

[Shy]

[size=1]I think the moderating staff often crosses a line when they try to prevent arguments or drama, especially when discussing a topic like evolution. It seems perfectly natural that members would argue with one another and sometimes those arguments get a little heated.But why exactly is that a problem? We're trying to create a [i]discussion[/i], not a debate. If members stray a little bit off-topic then I don't see why that's a problem.

Of course, I [I]do[/I] have a problem with people who decide to post in another damn 'Evolution' thread. Can't you people find something else to talk about?

-Shy[/size]

[Raiha]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Charlie darling, quit being such a cry baby. Nobody likes a whiner. Except maybe your mum.

Besides, it's our job to just embrace the fascism. To be happy with totalitarian rule.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='Neuvoxraiha'][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Besides, it's our job to just embrace the fascism. To be happy with totalitarian rule.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]So... Does this mean I can have the title: [B]Commandant[/B] of [B]AV District[/B]? :p [/COLOR]

[Aaryanna_Mom]

[quote name='Heaven's Cloud'][color=indigo]James, I posted here because I thought that other members could weigh in. I am not criticizing a moderator for a single issue, but rather a trying to point out a fault that I have been noticing with moderation in general. If I was to PM you or Desk and you replied “I am not noticing this trend” regardless of your intentions I would interpret your response as dismissive. Afterall, this isn’t an issue that directly affects you. However, if other members say “hey Charlie, quit being such a cry baby” I’ll understand that it is just my perception of the issue and I can apologize for being a whiny little…well you know. [/color][/QUOTE]I wouldn't tell you to quit being a cry baby or anything like that, but I can't say that I agree really. Not that I don't think moderators don't come across as too strict on occasion but rather that like anyone else, sometimes they do. And as SunfallE already pointed out, it's going to happen from time to time since intent is hard to gauge online. I really do not see a site wide issue of people being clamped down on. I do have one issue with your statement though, why would you dismiss James' response? If you sent him actual examples of what you were talking about I find it hard to believe that he would 'dismiss' your concerns.

In the end, other than to say, hey, I think you guys are a little too proactive a times, I think there's nothing going on. No they are not crossing a line [I'm going to disagree with you Shy] I think like anyone else on the site, they're working hard to do a good job and the idea that moderators are somehow perfect is a bit silly really. I know that's not what you mean Shy, but sometimes I feel like people expect that. And that's kind of silly, especially when you can pm or talk to them if you feel they are being too strict.

I do find the topic amusing in that the one trend I have noticed since I became a member is that the complaint goes back and forth. From [I]you're not strict enough[/I], to [I]you are being too strict[/I]. [B]o_O[/B] I kind of feel sorry for the staff at times since no matter what they do, someone is always unhappy. And it doesn't help that other members can't see when someone works it out with a moderator via pm so they assume that someone is being 'silenced' when that's probably not accurate.

[Boo]

[size=1]I thought we already decided that we would go for [b]Slave Master[/b] or [b]Absolute Ruler[/b] with the upcoming version. :([/size]
[quote name='Aaryanna_Mom']And it doesn't help that other members can't see when someone works it out with a moderator via pm so they assume that someone is being 'silenced' when that's probably not accurate.[/QUOTE][size=1]Yeah, it's a bit confusing sometimes, but I think it's probably better and more personal than a public smiting session.[/size]

[Shy]

[quote name='Aaryanna_Mom']I do find the topic amusing in that the one trend I have noticed since I became a member is that the complaint goes back and forth. From [I]you're not strict enough[/I], to [I]you are being too strict[/I]. [B]o_O[/B] I kind of feel sorry for the staff at times since no matter what they do, someone is always unhappy. And it doesn't help that other members can't see when someone works it out with a moderator via pm so they assume that someone is being 'silenced' when that's probably not accurate.[/QUOTE][size=1]That's always going to be the way, I think. We have a large, diverse community so it's almost a guarantee that at any given moment [i]someone[/i] is going to be unhappy with things. As Mom clarified, yes, I think the staff can be too proactive at times, but I don't mean to say that OB is a police state.

Our current mods are far from unreasonable, so I'd rather see these kinds of disputes brought up and discussed in a public forum rather than through PM. Of course, as long as the members' concerns are being addressed by staff then it shouldn't matter where the matter is settled.

-Shy[/size] :whoops:

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="1234"]I personally don't see the big problem H_C, I think the mods are doing a bang-up job. But sometimes they are strict, but no one is perfect. However, sometimes they don't need to act and they should wait a bit before acting, but it's nothing big. I don't see a need for improvement.[/COLOR]

[Nomurah!]

[SIZE="1"][COLOR="HotPink"]I'd like it for every mod just to act like normal members, until they're ACTUALLY needed.. And then perhaps we wouldn't have to pity them so much. Good thing alot of the mods have hearts, and can act like normal human beings.. If you're going to to tell someone they're doing something wrong...

At least say please? :]

Ah, but it would help if some of the regular members didn't act like school children.. Aye. Either way, it does seem that the OB members will never be fully satisfied..[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]I think the main reason that I tend to prefer PM is because we have a lot of navel-gazing-type discussions in this particular forum. And I guess that's fine up to a certain point.

But my main concern is to fix potential problems, rather than to just discuss them. If I receive a PM with examples of problems or issues, I'm very likely to nip them in the bud.

I recently did this in a fairly obvious way in the Backstage area. And that involved a staff member. I don't want to continually bring it up, but it's an important point because it demonstrates that I do my job regardless who is involved - I'm more than happy to pull staff members up if they're causing an issue.

Also just to agree with what Shy said earlier - I do believe that debates/discussions can be heated without us needing to stop them or pull them up. As long as there are no personal insults involved, a debate should be able to get a little fiery. If it ever crosses that personal line it should be looked at by a Mod, but generally, people need to be responsible for what they say - I have no problems with this.[/font]

[Justin]

I like living the totalitarian life.

OBWAKUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!~~!~!?!?!?!!!!**!@@!!!!

-Justin