Writing Alan Moore: The Genius of Comic Books

[Doublehex]

Genius. Madman. Self proclaimed sorcerer. Nihilist. British. Alan Moore is a man that is all these things...and so much more.

Plainly put, Alan Moore is literally genius given human form. After you read his works, such as [I]The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen[/I], [I]Watchmen[/I], [I]V for Vendetta[/I], [I]From Hell[/I], [I]Swamp Thing[/I], and most recently, [I]Promethea[/I], you know that Moore is something beyond the normal comic book writer.

He is a mad genius, and you can't help but be enchanted by his works. Moore is every writer's worst nightmare - after reading just a single issue of any of his works, you can't compare. Your stuff if child lit compared to his mad genius. Heck, I was lucky - I couldn't write anything for 4 months after reading Watchman. I know some people who were in a writing depression for a year...and more.

Who else but Alan Moore could turn [I]Miracleman[/I], a campy super hero from the 60's, into a commentary on the relationship of superheroes and humanity? Superheroes are Gods in human form, and in the end, we humans are nothing to them. Miracleman shows us how superheroes would destroy everything of this world that we cherish...and what we hate.

Before Moore, [I]Swamp Thing[/I] was a failing series. He turned it into a master piece that is still going on today, 20 years after he had left.

So, this is just a place to discuss his works.

And if you haven't read any of his stuff, what the hell are you waiting for?

[Kei]

[color=darkblue][size=1]Gonna go ahead and move this to Anthology. I have a feeling more people would be looking for it there. ^^[/color][/size]

[Shy]

[size=1]Alan Moore is great, but I think he's also overrated. Watchmen is a masterpiece to longtime fans of comic books, but to outsiders it's incredibly dense, foreign and... well, [i]boring[/i]. It's like War and Peace for graphic novels -- everybody [i]knows[/i] that it's supposed to be good, but very few actually understand or enjoy the work.

Much like The Dark Knight Returns, Watchmen was revolutionary for its' time, but comes across now as a little bit dated. That's not to say I don't enjoy Alan Moore, quite the opposite. But comic books/graphic novels have evolved so much over the years that having mainstream success and "mature" storytelling are no longer mutually exclusive. Plus, Alan Moore is insane. Holding a madman in such high regard kind of bothers me on a personal level; any day now we're going to find out that he ate his next door neighbors or something.

Also, how did you read Miracleman? It's been out of print and tied up in legal battles for like, decades.

-Shy[/size]

[Doublehex]

[quote name='Kei'][color=darkblue][size=1]Gonna go ahead and move this to Anthology. I have a feeling more people would be looking for it there. ^^[/color][/size][/QUOTE]

Alan Moore does comic books...and Manga ARE comic books. They are just different enough in style that we give them another name.

[QUOTE]Also, how did you read Miracleman? It's been out of print and tied up in legal battles for like, decades.
[/QUOTE]

It's called the internet. Do a search on Mininova.org for it, and you'll find it there. :)

[Kei]

[quote name='Matt']Alan Moore does comic books...and manga ARE comic books. They are just different enough in style that we give them another name.[/QUOTE]

[color=darkblue][size=1]I am well aware of that. However, manga is a term specifically designated for comic books of Japanese origin (though the term is abused nowdays). Under that logic, it would be an appropriate assumption that people would not expect to find a discussion on American graphic novels in a forum primarily focused on Japanese graphic novels.

Hope that explains my mindset, at the very least. Please continue with the topic at hand.[/color][/size]

[Allamorph]

[FONT=Arial]Novels in graphic format are still novels, and therefore under the jurisdiction of The Basement. Also, manga is much more episodic, and is more like a collection than a unified work.

I have not yet read V for Vendetta, though I intend to. I did, however, greatly appreciate The Watchmen. More later when I remember why.[/FONT]

[Doublehex]

[quote name='Allamorph'][FONT=Arial]Novels in graphic format are still novels, and therefore under the jurisdiction of The Basement. Also, manga is much more episodic, and is more like a collection than a unified work.[/FONT][/QUOTE]

True, but Moore isn't exclusive to Graphic Novels. His latest work, Promethea, is a basically just like every other comic book in terms of how the plot slowly unravels. So, I consider that a comic book, and not a graphic novel, in that it was meant to be read with some time difference. Same goes for Watchmen, but From Hell is an excellent example of a graphic novel, in that you [I]could[/I] read it all in one sitting...if a normal human's brain wouldn't explode from it all.

Maybe we should have a comic book forum?

[Allamorph]

[quote name='Matt']His latest work, Promethea, is a basically just like every other comic book in terms of how the plot slowly unravels. So, I consider that a comic book, and not a graphic novel, in that it was meant to be read with some time difference.[/quote]
[FONT=Arial]I read Hellsing, Tsubasa (reservoir), Kenshin, and other manga in one sitting just as I read [I][U]The Dresden Files[/U][/I] and such in one sitting. Chapters and episodes do not factor in for me; they are mere separations and forced mental pauses during which you can either wait and come back or skip over immediately.

Basically, since comic books are not manga (by cultural separation) and because the demand for discussion seems to be quite dry, I see no real reason to discuss them anywhere else but here. Moore has more of a draw for me because his works are written with a definite literary intent. I can't say the same for The Fantastic Four or Naruto.

Although, I did see a novelization of Vampire Hunter D in the manga section of Books-A-Million last time I was there. I found that extraordinarily entertaining.

At any rate, Moore belongs here, and no comic book forum just yet. Back to discussing Moore. :p[/FONT]

[Dagger]

Not to drag the issue out (I'm sorry!! :animeswea), but I'm not sure that I get the structural difference between manga and comics (or between comics and graphic novels) that you guys are hinting at.

Allamorph, you said that manga is more episodic, but manga is published in a variety of ways in Japan, including titles that go straight to the bookshelf without being serialized in a magazine first. I guess we could distinguish between graphic novels and comics/manga (in either Japan or the US) based on how they were originally distributed, but that seems needlessly complicated.

Matt, you suggested that comics are meant to be read with some time difference... but does the time gap really affect things that much? It alters the reading experience somewhat, of course, but to me it's comparable to TV shows. You can watch them as each new episode airs, or you can buy the full DVD set and watch a whole season at once, but however much or little it was shaped by its episodic format, it's still a complete work.

You could say that, well, TV shows are still clearly distinguishable from movie trilogies or TV mini-series, but I don't see where a similar distinction comes in with respect to comics and graphic novels... at least not if we include non-American works in the mix.

I guess part of me would rather have the term "graphic novel" either be used for everything (manga, comics, whatever, as long as it's in collected form) or nothing. When people use it selectively, I can't help but think about how it's been appropriated by the literary establishment to legitimize a very small group of comics (e.g. Maus and Persopolis).

~Dagger~

[Allamorph]

[quote name='Dagger']Not to drag the issue out , but I'm not sure that I get the structural difference between manga and comics (or between comics and graphic novels) that you guys are hinting at.[/quote]
[FONT=Arial]Good, because I'm saying that I find it irrelevant?namely because there is almost no difference save the language. For the record, Conan Doyle's works about Sherlock Holmes were also episodic and were published individually in [I]The Strand[/I] magazine, and yet they are literature. I could even make a case for Lillian Jackson Braun's series being episodic in nature. Certainly all of her [I][U]The Cat Who....[/U][/I] books are standalone, though they share the same main character.

So the only real reason for having Moore's works discussed here, then, is because they are not Japanese language, and they are not Japanese art style.

Which raises a question: why do I never hear of Chinese graphic publications? Or why not Thai, for that matter?[/FONT]

[Doublehex]

OK, we are getting REALLY off-topic here.

So, discussion #1: what is your most favorite Alan Moore work, and why?

I'll go into detail as to why it's Watchmen when it isn't 3 in the morning. ;)

[sbsp13668]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="DarkRed"]Woo! I love that dude! I've only read [I]V for Vendetta[/I], but it's one of the best books I've ever read (and it's a comic!). I love the drama he's able to put into that comic without making it sounds overdramatic :catgirl: The way he connects every little detail and character is amazing, especially since it doesn't leave you wondering anything like "what happened to so and so...?" The only thing it leaves some people wondering is: who is V? amd how is Evey going to rebuild the world around her? Not to mention, the artist, David Lloyd (I think), has a very nice style; it looks kinda dark, and it's very realistic (flawless). Dave also does something similar to mangakas with his pictures by setting a sort of mood with the atmosphere/setting, then letting the scene play out.

I definately recommend it to anyone who hasn't read it yet! It's very unique compared to other comics; it's not about a lousy superhero, and it's not totally happy or romantic. ^.^ [/COLOR][/FONT]

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]I have just started to read Watchmen. I'm about halfway through (or a bit more) now.

I'm really enjoying it, especially as someone who really hasn't read comics in years. I used to read a few simpler things as a kid and as a teenager I became more interested in European stuff rather than American stuff (for example I was never interested in X-Men comics, but I enjoyed the TV series).

So for me Watchmen was a bit of an experiment to see whether or not I was still interested in this medium.

I think what I like about Watchmen is that it's far more "adult" than a number of comics I've seen before. I don't mean in terms of ideas like violence or gritty subjects, but more in terms of complexity and its ability to deal with political issues as well.

The way that the characters' backstories tie together and how their often derranged personalities are not simply there for the sake of seeming "mature" is refreshing and appealing to me. Watchmen deals with more than just the idea of superheroes in the real world (or the darker side of superheroes) and I really appreciate that.

It doesn't insult the reader too much by forcing the same concepts down your throat frequently.

Despite this, Watchmen is still incredibly easy to read. I am not finding it to be convoluted or so complex that the average person can't understand it. It's definitely slower than traditional comics that I've seen (as limited as they were), but I don't mind that - it comes across as being far more novel-like than comic-like, in the strictest terms.

As far as these definitions go, I'm certainly no expert. I always thought that the term "graphic novel" came about during the time of Watchmen and that it was a term coined to at least partially legitimize comics as an "adult" art form, like regular novels.

For me, the terms "comic" and "graphic novel" are totally interchangeable, probably because I don't view a comic as being something that can't be for adults.

Sometimes I think "graphic novel" sounds a little pretentious and sometimes it kind of betrays an embarassment that fans have about their hobby. At least, that's the impression I get, rightly or wrongly.

Still, it doesn't change the fact that comics/graphic novels are a powerful medium. I feel very privileged to be dipping my toe in the water again with such a wonderful piece of art.[/font]

[sbsp13668]

[COLOR="Orange"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Now, I've finished reading [I]Watchmen[/I], and it is AMAZING! All of the characters are unique and well developed, and there are several interesting themes. Also, it kicks most comics' asses! I love how the "superheroes" in Alan Moore's books don't have super powers (except Dr. Manhattan, but I can live with that); it really shows up comics like Spiderman and Superman.

There's one major problem though: Not enough people are reading this book!
I mean, this book is fantastic literature, but it's in comic format. Most people think comic books are a guy thing, so no girls are even considering reading it. Also, when I told my female friends that I was reading [I]Watchmen[/I], they all laughed and said "Pffffft! Stop reading that and read [I]Twilight[/I]!" Of course after hearing that, I self destructed, because [I]Watchmen[/I] is a work of art, and [I]Twilight[/I] is a Mary-Sue fanfiction that somehow was able to get published into a book series (it's just insulting). ... Well, I'm glad I got all that out of my system. :catgirl:

Obviously, Rorschach is my favourite character of the series, because I agree with his point of view, he has some of the best quotes, and he's ugly (and ugly characters are very VERY rare). ^.^

Next Alan Moore comic I'm reading: [I]The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen[/I][/FONT][/COLOR]

[David Grohl]

[COLOR="DimGray"]From Hell is Alan Moore's biggest literary acomplishment. Watchmen is a far better comic book, but From Hell is an incredible novel. It was impossible to understand the first time I read it, though, which is why I think it isn't very highly thought of (Also, it has had the weakest film adaptation of any Moore work to-date, which pains me to say since it stars sentimental fave Ian Holm... anyway). The art-work is that, art; it is a perfect thematic counterpart to the story going on, confusing and dense, dark and mysterious, revealing only what is needed to tell the story and nothing more.

Also, anything that includes references to Joseph Merrick makes me think of John Hurt, which always makes me smile. Speaking of which...

V for Vendetta is a better film that novel. It's taken me years to admit that, as a huge fan of the novel, but it's true; the novel contains many things which are entirely unnecessary. The acid-trip sequence, for example, is gratuitous and boring, as are some other bits which were cut from the movie.

Watchmen is incredible, probably the first thing I ever read in one sitting. I remember that I sat around thinking about it for like two days, it had a real impact on me. The characters were just amazing. They were fleshed out and [i]real[/i] for the first time, perhaps, in the history of comics... I can't honestly believe that Alan Moore is insane, because nobody out of their mind could understand the human condition so perfectly. Alan Moore is just unique.

I mean... he did get kicked out of school at 17 for dealing acid. And his wife did leave him for his mistress. And maybe he's a practicing magician. And alright, maybe he does worship a Roman snake diety... But what of it?[/COLOR]

[Nerdsy]

[quote name='sbsp13668'][COLOR="Orange"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Obviously, Rorschach is my favourite character of the series, because I agree with his point of view,][/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[color=deeppink]That's funny, considering Rorshach was designed to be a criticism of that school of thought.[/color]

[sbsp13668]

[quote name='David Grohl'][COLOR="DimGray"]I mean... he did get kicked out of school at 17 for dealing acid. And his wife did leave him for his mistress. And maybe he's a practicing magician. And alright, maybe he does worship a Roman snake diety... But what of it?[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="DarkSlateGray"]Hmmm... never knew all that, but I agree. Moore seems perfectly sane, but that may be the opinion of somebody who isn't quite sane themselves, so... :catgirl: kitty.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[quote name='Nerdsy'][color=deeppink]That's funny, considering Rorshach was designed to be a criticism of that school of thought.[/color][/QUOTE]


[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="DarkSlateGray"]Works either way really. Either you like the character because he mocks that point of view, or you like him because you can relate. XD My second favourite would have to be the Comedian who is similar to Rorschach in some views too, but I like his somewhat lighter approach to things.

Not to mention Rorschach has taught me a very interesting theory as to morality, refer to signature. XD[/COLOR][/FONT]