Beijing 2008 Olympics (Should China Play Host?)

[vegeta rocker]

I for one really cannot believe that China is allowed to host the Olympics. They continue to cruelly occupy Tibet, and try to show a false face of perfection to the world. This is seen with having a 7 yr old girl with a crooked smile and pig tails sing for the opening ceremony than having her song lip synced by a slender 9 yr old in a shimmering red dress for the actual event.

A country known for censorship, and numerous political imprisonments gets to host an international ceremony built on showcasing humanity's great athleticism?

The protesters they don't deport get imprisoned.

Am I alone here in feeling this way? I mean I know there are thousands that feel this way but I mean here on Ob, does anyone else feel this way as well?

[Raiha]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]They're the Olympics. Hosting them anywhere is going to eventually be problematic because every country has its own skeletons. Some less apparent than others, and some more obvious. Are you telling me that if the U.S.A. had hosted the Olympics this year it'd all be okay?

Let he who is without sin you know.

It isn't like they're being done in Iran this year. Or Russia. China has a dark and tangled history and has banned Trent Reznor and virtually every other band on earth from performing in their country. They've banned the Falun Gong from the internet, it's impossible to access the Sexy Losers website and I've been there several times. Not just the Great Wall, not just the Forbidden City, but I've been to the rural areas where the ducks crowd the road and people still plow their fields with buffalo.

It's not a cruel den of horrors, and while it is easy for someone to simply dismiss China's government as an evil hellhole, the majority of the Chinese are proud to have the Olympics in their country and proud to be a part of something that goes beyond foreign policy issues.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Malkav]

The general consensus in 2008 is to ignore the human rights violations and 10 year old gymnasts... Didn't you get the memo?

Your problem is you're trying to inject nasty politics into something that by all means is meant to show the world can come together, despite our differences, and engage in something truly wonderful.*

Its a common thing in history that the world ignores the problems of the host country. Germany hosted in 1936 Olympics despite their treatment of Jews and America hosted 1960s Olympics desspite of the civil rights movement that was sweeping the country due to poor treatment of blacks.

I'm just saying guy, save the politics for when NBC goes back to showing Hardball and Meet the Press. And if you want to get mad at someone get mad at America for only having 10 gold medals against China's 17, we have a message to send here and our team isn't delivering.

[DeLarge]

[SIZE=1]I really don't have too many problems with the Olympics being held in Beijing. I don't think that a country's human rights record should be brought into account when thinking about a sporting event - there doesn't seem to be much of a connection between the two.

Going on about the little girl being replaced by a "prettier model" who lip-synched is a little bit pathetic. It's not the end of the world, and I don't think that there should be all this scandal surrounding it. It's just a little girl lip-synching, for the sake of the maker.

The only problems I have with the Beijing Olympics are:

[B]1. [/B]I'm not sure that it's the best idea to hold the world's biggest sporting event in a city with such high levels of pollution. Haile Gebrselassie, in many people's opinion one of the greatest Olympic athletes, declined to take part in the Olympics because of his asthma, something which I think reflects the pollution problem well. At least the Chinese government put measures in place to reduce the smog levels before the events began, but it doesn't really seem like enough.

[B]2. [/B]This applies to the Olympics in general, but that opening ceremony was a load of pretentious toss. I don't think it's necessary to spend so much money on the ceremony, which doesn't really have a point to it, and to put so much effort into preparing for it. It's possible that I also have a problem with the opening ceremonies because I'm not sure how our opening ceremony in London 2012 is going to compare. Dancing cockney chimney sweeps, perhaps?
[/SIZE]

[James]

[quote]Are you telling me that if the U.S.A. had hosted the Olympics this year it'd all be okay?
[/quote]

[font=franklin gothic medium]Well, the USA is obviously far different than China. It's like comparing apples and oranges here.

As far as this situation goes, I do think that a lot of people have "forgotten" that China has an oppressive communist regime at its helm. Maybe this is because of China's economic boom and the idea of "two systems, one country" (i.e. socialist politics with a somewhat capitalist economy).

The Olympics shifts focus to China and highlights that they are still a highly retrograde country in a number of ways. It [i]is[/i] worth pointing out Tibet, oppression of free speech and re-education camps.

Having said that (and having pointed out [i]very[/i] legitimate concerns), I think that it's easy to miss the point that the Olympics can be a vehicle for change as well.

In order to host this event China has had to open itself up in ways that it hadn't previously. Yes, there's still a very long way to go - believe me, I don't think any sensible person could deny that.

Still, the Olympics brings massive scrutiny to China and they are now in a position of having to justify everything they do. This is a good thing. Now more people are aware of what's happening there and China itself is more aware of what it has to do in order to be truly accepted by the rest of the world.

The Olympics are no silver bullet, but I do think that there are a number of positives to come out of them (especially in Beijing).

Anyway I think Malkav has hit the nail on the head. Yes, we want to "focus on sport" and all the rest. In doing so, we do unfortunately have this terrible habit of ignoring atrocities within the host country (Nazi Germany being an excellent example).

Of course that isn't a good thing on balance, but having said that, hosting the Olympics in Beijing is not entirely negative. I think it's important to consider how this event can help to force greater transparency on China.[/font]

[Raiha]

[quote name='DeLarge'][SIZE=1] It's possible that I also have a problem with the opening ceremonies because I'm not sure how our opening ceremony in London 2012 is going to compare. Dancing cockney chimney sweeps, perhaps?
[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Well one thing's for sure. Anything before and after this is just going to look like a bloody country festival. Not that I know for sure, I tend to just pay attention when it's Rhythmics, Swimming, and the Javelin.

I figure we would've gotten more medals right away if we'd trained all of our athletes in Los Angeles or something.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Malkav]

[quote name='DeLarge']...[SIZE=1]because I'm not sure how our opening ceremony in London 2012 is going to compare. Dancing cockney chimney sweeps, perhaps?
[/SIZE][/quote]


Whatever it is I'm sure its going to involve Harry Potter, seeing as he's your most recognizable international symbol. Perhaps the History and future of the wizarding world as opposed to China's visual history? Good luck finding all of those people.

Ohh! The new stadium will be a complete duplicate of the Quidditch world cup stadium! (please excuse my geek)

[Sabrina]

[FONT="Tahoma"][quote name='James][font=franklin gothic medium']Still, the Olympics brings massive scrutiny to China and they are now in a position of having to justify everything they do. This is a good thing. Now more people are aware of what's happening there and China itself is more aware of what it has to do in order to be truly accepted by the rest of the world.[/font][/quote]That's what I was thinking, that it's a step towards bringing them further into the spot light. The Olympics is a good means to not only get them involved with the rest of the world, but to also make people more aware of what type of country they are.

Besides, considering the bribery scandal when the winter Olympics were hosted here in SLC, Utah of the US is proof that like others already said, each country has their skeletons or problems in the background. Also, by hosting the Olympics there, it doesn't mean that the bad things they've done are suddenly acceptable. Not by a long shot. [/FONT]

[Darren]

And here I was, thinking this thread was about discussing what you like about the olympics and what events you were watching... Darn :animedepr

I can't really say anything that hasn't been said yet. I agree with all of you to a degree. How about that? But I'm not really interested in China's government; that's not really the point of the olympics...

*still sad that he can't discuss the strange sports*

[Allamorph]

[quote name='Darren']And here I was, thinking this thread was about discussing what you like about the olympics and what events you were watching... Darn :animedepr[/quote]
[FONT=Arial]So change the subject already. =P Besides, who wants to discuss politics anyway? Bunch of self-inflated garbage....

So the American gymnasts had a rough go last night. Nasty bobble there at the balance beam, and then a big mistake on the floor and everyone was shaken up. And China looked absolutely scary on the uneven bars. My gosh, did they deserve the gold, but I think the US was capable of more than they gave, and just had a run of nerves and bad luck.

Speaking of difficulty, Roger Federer's match against the El Salvador representative was a bit strange. The current number one ranked tennis male, and he can't take out a relatively unknown face who has barely any power to his swing? Federer did win, but Aravelo gave him a good run.

I remember some uproar over the current scoring system for boxing....

And can someone tell me why badminton is recognized as an Olympic sport?[/FONT]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR="Indigo"]I'm surprised people are even bothering to make a fuss when no country is free of doing things that are inhumane. Based on that premise it's like saying we should just do away with Olympics since just about everyone is guilty of that kind of nonsense.

Anyway, personally I've just been enjoying watching the events. The only thing I miss is being able to actually go in person. I'm not a big fan of the Olympics but I can't deny how much fun it was to see it up close when the winter Olympics were here in Utah a while ago.

Anyway, so far my favorite part has been watching the US in the swimming events. Some of that has been down right exciting to see. [/COLOR]

[Darren]

[quote name='Allamorph'][FONT=Arial]And can someone tell me why badminton is recognized as an Olympic sport?[/FONT][/QUOTE]
The same reason Table Tennis is. :p And I will say, I kinda like watching badminton. (Granted that this was the first year I had ever seen it played)
[quote name='Indi'][COLOR="Indigo"]Anyway, personally I've just been enjoying watching the events. The only thing I miss is being able to actually go in person. I'm not a big fan of the Olympics but I can't deny how much fun it was to see it up close when the winter Olympics were here in Utah a while ago.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
I've been meaning to ask all of you Salt Lake City folks about that. I would love to go to the London 2012 olympics.

As far as the sports go, I love watching the swimming and gymnastics. Michael Phelps breaking records left and right. Natalie Coughlin stepping up to the plate for the women, Lezak barely clenching the gold for the team 4X200 Free, etc.
Gymnastics: I was so disappointed with the women. (I could feel that girl's pain) Of course, you can't blame it all on her, even if she was the only one who fell. (Twice!) I think that the coach is also to blame, and it's not like all of the other girls were perfect. (Unfortunately, I had really high hopes after China's leader fell on her beam routine)

Currently, I'm watching the Men's All-around. Routing for Johnathan Horton. (And it doesn't hurt that he went to the college I'll be attending in two weeks) I saw him on the rings for the team, and was very impressed! Also, did anyone see Alexander Artemev on the pommel horse??? AMAZING!

But I also like watching the events that are covered on CNBC and exclusively online. They're fun to watch even though I don't understand what's going on. (Like fencing, and judo, and even badminton) I especially find Trampoline interesting. I've never heard of it before this olympic game, but I thought it was interesting to hear that USA qualified their first ever male competitor. It's very enjoyable to watch them doing all those advanced tricks/flips 30+ feet in the air.

[Allamorph]

[quote name='Darren']Of course, you can't blame it all on her, even if she was the only one who fell. (Twice!) I think that the coach is also to blame, and it's not like all of the other girls were perfect.[/quote]
[FONT=Arial]I don't think it's right to blame anything on anyone, really. The whole mess was just a few ill-timed accidents and a team-wide shaken confidence compounded by nerves. No one's fault.

I'm going to see if I can find some recordings of any archery competitions. I dig that kind of stuff. I did manage to see the North Korean men barely keep their grip on the gold in the team event; if Italy hadn't had those two sevens, it would have been a whole different story, and a major upset.

Ridiculous fun to watch, though.[/FONT]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=#9933ff]It's interesting that even though everyone is typing about the repeated human rights violations of China and their most recent revealation that they swicthed girls because the 7 year old with the good voice wasn't 'cute enough. (What are they morons? She was adorble) No one is mentioning all the crap that the Premier of British Columbia is doing while preparing Vancouver for the 2010 winter olympics.

So far the mayor and the Premier have relocated the homeless population of Vancouver to other towns in British Columbia and closed a few main roads leading to the near bankruptcy of many small businesses. (BC's current premier is a mainly economy centered )To say nothing of the many protests by First Nation People that have started and the ones that will most likely be happening during the games.

Yes China does have worse human rights problems than Canada but these games are used to try and get countries to stop fighting for a week (not that it helped with Georgia and Russia) and learn to play nice.Not to focus on the bad things.[/color]

[Drizzt Do'urden]

As far as "showing china what it needs to do to be accepted by the rest of the world" goes, China is no different from North Korea, and the numerous other countries of the world who could really give a crap how the rest of the world views them. Giving China the games is like giving a toy to a child whose in the middle of a tantrum. It shows them that no matter what they do they can have their way.

The United States and other Countries will still continue to buy their toys though they've been shown to be untested for human saftey and made by free "slave" labor. We won't intervene in their oppression of tibet because they're unstable and the loss of so many american business' that thrive over there would put a damper in our economy. It's the same story elsewhere in the world, North Korea, wouldn't dismantle their nuclear unless they were threatened with force and then justly compensated. Just as mentioned earlier Hitler's treatment of the Jew's and his ayrian(sp) race (though that still perplexes me, since he wanted blonde hair blue eyes, and he had dark hair?)

The Olympic games themselves, however, are traditionally supposed to be unbiased. And are intended to be a time when we can celebrate temporary unity and peace. Though Russia seems to be using the "unity" aspect to force the smaller former soviet union countries into returning to the "motherland".

I do so love the games, and though I could think of better places in the world I'd like to see the games. The fact that they're in China is just temporary. and I've been alive for 5 Olympic games so far, and god willing I'll see 15 or so more. So what's really the big deal if one feels a little empty.

[Korey]

[FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]*Ignores the politicial talk about China*

As much as we'd all like China to "show all their skeletons" and expose all their cruel horrors that exist in their country, I don't care about that so much as watching the games for what they are. Greece had its share of problems (poverty), Sydney I'm not so sure about. Every place has their share of problems and as Americans, of course we're gonna scrutinize them for their problems. It's just how it goes.

As far as the games go, I've been satisfied how it's gone so far. Michael Phelps is just blazing through the competition and making it look so easy. Will he break Spitz's record? Most likely. He's by far the most impressive athlete I've seen in the games so far. The US Men's Basketball team is doing well for themselves and if they can keep their egos in check, they might win. The group looks impressive so far, but I think nothing can compare to the 1996 Dream Team. Jordan, Pippen, Barkley, Robinson, Olajuwon, Stockton....need I say more?

I'm looking forward to the track and field section of the Olympics. Especially sir Breaux Greer. Olympic Javelin throwing have never seemed so interesting to me before. Call it a man crush.

Ah and did anyone see Blake upset Federer? I think after the Olympics, the pro circuit of Tennis is gonna be much more interesting. With Federer losing to Nadal and then here, I wouldn't be surprised to see the men coming after Federer more agressively to take his spot.[/FONT]

[Vicky]

[size=1]When there's Olympics around there's always problems. Like the stupid logo for London - I don't how much they spent on it, but it the biggest pile of crap I've ever seen. You can't even make out what year it's saying =/. No surprise that people are going to complain about it being hosted in Beijing... when there's Olympics around, there's always problems.

Anyway, I think it's all too much fuss. But there's one thing that always sticks in the back of my mind when the Olympics are on...

...why the hell is [i]Ping Pong[/i] an Olympic sport? O_o[/size]

[Rachmaninoff]

[quote name='Korey][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"']*Ignores the politicial talk about China*[/FONT][/quote]It's [B]political[/B] by the way. =P

Anyway, I'm going to do the same, ignore all the silly fuss over what country it's in. Seriously, that would be like the pot calling the kettle black since no one is free of shady things that have happened in their country.

I've simply been enjoying what few events I've had time to watch. I know so far some of the swimming events have been my favorites. That and some of the gymnastics. I'll probably watch some more tonight. It just depends on whether or not it's a repeat or not since they've been doing that.

[Raiha]

[quote name='Vicky'][size=1]
...why the hell is [i]Ping Pong[/i] an Olympic sport? O_o[/size][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Balls of Fury clearly was the reason why... .........oh god I can't even say that with a straight face.

And as far as badminton goes, it's about the same as Ping Pong, only I enjoy it far more. One, it's easier than tennis, and two, the birdie doesn't ever threaten to badly wound you no matter what those Vitamin Water commercials imply. *grumble grumble*

But in other news, if you didn't hear about the Spanish Basketball team controversy where they posted a picture of them making their eyes all slanty... The general gist is that some Chinese pride groups in AMERICA not China mind you, have gotten their panties in a bunch. Which is moronic. I mean Jesus why can't people just joke around anymore? Does everyone have to subscribe to this self victimizing, whiney, I'M OFFENDED nonsense?

Strictly speaking as a Chinese American girl, I laughed myself silly at the picture. Reminds me of when I was teased in middle school. The snappy comeback being: "Well it's too bad your eyes are just plain and round and the color of washed out laundry."[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Rachmaninoff]

[quote name='Raiha'][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]I mean Jesus why can't people just joke around anymore? Does everyone have to subscribe to this self victimizing, whiney, I'M OFFENDED nonsense?[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]It's like the new mantra these days... no matter what it is... you must find some reason to be upset or offended! OMG! It's in China! They're so bad!

[/sarcasm]

I get tired of that mentality of searching for a reason to be upset. Not that it isn't appropriate at times, but nine times out of ten, it's just someone getting worked up for no good reason.

[chibi-master]

[quote name='Darren']And here I was, thinking this thread was about discussing what you like about the olympics and what events you were watching... Darn :animedepr

*still sad that he can't discuss the strange sports*[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I think I'll go start a thread on that...

[Shinmaru]

[quote name='Korey'][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]Ah and did anyone see Blake upset Federer? I think after the Olympics, the pro circuit of Tennis is gonna be much more interesting. With Federer losing to Nadal and then here, I wouldn't be surprised to see the men coming after Federer more agressively to take his spot.[/FONT][/QUOTE]

I saw it. HUGE victory for James Blake; pretty cool that his first victory against Roger Federer came during the Olympics. Good for him, too. He hit some AMAZING shots in that match. A Blake/Rafael Nadal final for the gold medal would be awesome. Blake would at least have a shot since it's not being played on clay, haha.

I've been trying to keep up with the USA basketball team, but the games are always played way too early for me. Sucks because I was REALLY looking forward to the USA/Greece match, but oh well. USA/Spain on Saturday is a can't miss game for me. Thank God it's on at a more decent time, haha. Spain plays very well together, and Pau Gasol/Jose Calderon are a good center/guard combo, but if the U.S. can keep its strong defense going, then it can take this game without too much trouble.

[sbsp13668]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="seagreen"]I don't think there's a way to just stop the Olympics, but the countries that disagree with China's [I]disgusting[/I] behaviour, should've boycotted the events. I think there's some sort of protest going on in Quebec about this or the Georgia invasion... I wish I had a decent excuse for cruddy memory, but I don't, sorry ^.^;

Ping Pong, tennis, and badminton are terribly boring to watch, but they're soooo much fun to play! *^.^* Balls of Fury was a funny movie too! XD [/COLOR][/FONT]

[QUOTE]Greece had its share of problems (poverty), Sydney I'm not so sure about. Every place has their share of problems and as Americans, of course we're gonna scrutinize them for their problems. It's just how it goes.

As far as the games go, I've been satisfied how it's gone so far. Michael Phelps is just blazing through the competition and making it look so easy. Will he break Spitz's record? Most likely. He's by far the most impressive athlete I've seen in the games so far.[/QUOTE]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="SeaGreen"]Phelps is AMAZING! He's gotta be part fish or something! ^.^ Lucky Americans! Canada still has NO medals! Our field hockey team lost! T.T Field HOCKEY! Well, that rowing competiton looks good for us anyways... o.O[/COLOR][/FONT]

[James]

[quote]Anyway, I'm going to do the same, ignore all the silly fuss over what country it's in. Seriously, that would be like the pot calling the kettle black since no one is free of shady things that have happened in their country.[/quote]

[font=franklin gothic medium]As much as I think it's fair to just talk about this event in terms of the sport, I do find it kind of strange to call the controversy a "silly fuss".

It just kind of reminds me how comfortable most of us are where we live. You know, because we can easily afford to dismiss the horrors of the world when it suits us.

I suppose we could always just say "well, every country has had some bad blood in its history" (as if it's all totally comparative anyway) and be done with it. I mean, that's mostly what [i]does[/i] happen I guess. It's sort of sad.

It's also sort of funny that everyone is ignoring the political component even though vegeta rocker's entire premise for this thread revolved around the politics of awarding the games to China. So we've actually diverted from the thread's original purpose anyway. But, I digress (and threads are allowed to as well!) :catgirl:

As far as the event itself goes, I have to admit that I haven't followed it terribly much this year (other than hearing about some specific events - especially the swimming!)

And unfortunately I missed the opening ceremony! I was so annoyed about that. I was on a plane as it was starting and then in a car...and I missed it. Ugh. Everyone has told me how amazing it was and I'm very eager to see it.

Does anyone know a good location to see it online? Or do I just have to resort to YouTube?

I'm sort of hoping it comes out on a DVD compilation or something, but I don't know if that has ever really happened before.

All of this makes me wonder how the London Olympics will turn out in 2012. I actually like the logo (at least from what I've seen - the ribbon flowing through the circles). And I'm really eager to see that opening ceremony too.

It's kind of weird to go to the Olympic area in Sydney now, because it's almost the same as it was back in 2000. A few new buildings have come up and parts of that area are being turned into a business park. So I guess they are trying to make it relevant now...and I know that Stadium Australia still gets used for sports events and such.

Still, when I went there it all looked almost abandoned. It was really weird. It makes you realize how much expense countries go to in order to host the Olympic Games - so much money for a single major event.[/font]

[Malkav]

[quote name='James'][FONT=franklin gothic medium]

Does anyone know a good location to see it online? Or do I just have to resort to YouTube?

[/FONT][/quote]

[URL="http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/index.html"][COLOR=#ff0000]For your eyes only*[/COLOR][/URL];)


[COLOR=#000000]Do enjoy.[/COLOR]