Evolution vs. Intelligent Design

[chibi-master]

[quote name='Lunar'][COLOR="Purple"]Evolution, doesn't make sense......if we came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys now???[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Simple, if the same organisms are split up and put in different environments, they will adapt differently. So if some monkeys wandered away from their family group-thing of monkeys and made their way to a different area versus being left in their old environment, they wouldl evolve in order to adapt to their new environment, whereas the monkeys in the old and usual environment would stay virtually the same. But I personally don't know which theory to accept...:animeswea

[The13thMan]

[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]I think Lunar was just being sarcastic. Or maybe i'm just being hopeful.

Also, i don't think we evolved from monkeys. Allow me to quote pbs.org [/FONT]

[QUOTE=PBS]1. Did we evolve from monkeys?

Humans did not evolve from monkeys. Humans are more closely related to modern apes than to monkeys, but we didn't evolve from apes, either. Humans share a common ancestor with modern African apes, like gorillas and chimpanzees. Scientists believe this common ancestor existed
5 to 8 million years ago. Shortly thereafter, the species diverged into two separate lineages. One of these lineages ultimately evolved into gorillas and chimps, and the other evolved into early human ancestors called hominids.
[/QUOTE]

[chibi-master]

[quote name='The13thMan'][FONT="Trebuchet MS"]I think Lunar was just being sarcastic. Or maybe i'm just being hopeful.[/FONT][/QUOTE]

With Lunar, it's usually the second.:animeswea But you never know. And I ment to say apes, it's just that she posted about monkeys and I was trying to be a little more relevant to what she said...yeah, I'm stupid...

[Vicky]

[quote name='Lunar'][COLOR="Purple"] We come from Adam and Eve.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[size=1]Incest?

Seriously, though, I know a lot of devout Christians who admit that Adam and Eve is metaphorical. Why? Because it's pretty damn impossible for the entire human population to evolve from two sets of genes (or genomes? Not sure, ain't a biologist).

And 13th already said what I was going to say about the apes. We didn't evolve from monkeys - gorillas are just from the same subfamily.

As for evolution vs intelligent design, I'm all for evolution but I won't dispute if people want to believe in intelligent design. I think they should teach both in school, because that's what they did in my school, and hey, we all turned out pretty find. No moral contradictions of students breaking down from being torn a part by science and religion.[/size]

[Godot]

[quote name='Vicky'][size=1]Incest?

Seriously, though, I know a lot of devout Christians who admit that Adam and Eve is metaphorical. Why? Because it's pretty damn impossible for the entire human population to evolve from two sets of genes (or genomes? Not sure, ain't a biologist).

And 13th already said what I was going to say about the apes. We didn't evolve from monkeys - gorillas are just from the same subfamily.

As for evolution vs intelligent design, I'm all for evolution but I won't dispute if people want to believe in intelligent design. I think they should teach both in school, because that's what they did in my school, and hey, we all turned out pretty find. No moral contradictions of students breaking down from being torn a part by science and religion.[/size][/QUOTE]

let us come to the foundations, big band theory is in correlation with evolution right?

I just want to establish something here

[Vicky]

[quote name='Godot']let us come to the foundations, big band theory is in correlation with evolution right?

I just want to establish something here[/QUOTE]

[size=1]Depends. Generally, yes, I think, though I still live in hope that someone will come up with a better theory (I'm a firm believer that you can't make something from nothing).[/size]

[Rachmaninoff]

[quote name='The13thMan;820218][FONT="Trebuchet MS"]I'm not assuming that they know what they are teaching is wrong. I'm assuming that they realize the possibility that it is wrong. This is an important thing for people to realize in science. There are many things in science that are taught that can be disproven. I don't know how it was in your highschool but in mine we had some older science texts and every now and then we would come across some out of date information. This is because science is dynamic. If you realize that then you can realize that whatever you're saying might be contingent upon science. [/FONT][/QUOTE]Assumptions are not the way to go. Don't assume that they know it's wrong, that's why I used the "world is flat" example. They had no reason to assume it was wrong. :/ [quote name='The13thMan;820218][FONT="Trebuchet MS"']As for the placing of the blame, i did actually distribute it between the teacher and the material... and even the student, i think (maybe implicitly). Regardless of whether i said it before, i'll say it now, if the student is of age to have discovered independent thought then even the student should be held partially responsible. [/FONT][/quote]You were going more for blaming the teacher instead of the material, when sometimes it's not the teacher at all. It's the mistaken belief that what they are teaching is correct. So blaming them is pointless, they think that they know the facts. [QUOTE=The13thMan'][FONT="Trebuchet MS"]As for what you were getting at, do you mind very bluntly saying it in case i missed it yet again?
^^^sincerity^^^ [/FONT][/QUOTE]This is what I'm getting at, I explained it already and you have to keep going in circles over the same thing, only you word it slightly different or clarify a tiny bit when the basics of what I or you said is already done. =P

[Godot]

hey guys I dont mean to come into this out of no where but i have to put in my two cents,

We have christian schools, and other schools for major religions, they may teach evolution but they should even out the playing field (which i assume they do) by explained how it is just a theory and to talk to your parents about the over all issue of what to belief at home as a suggestion it. Im fine with evolution being taught in schools because some of it is true (now whether we came from monkeys is a is something that hasnt been proven therefore is just as valid as christianity evidence wise) just as long as they dont make it out to be true, a school should be nuetral unless it states its a should of *insert* religion

[The13thMan]

[quote name='Godot']let us come to the foundations, big band theory is in correlation with evolution right?

I just want to establish something here[/QUOTE]

[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]Big banD theory??? Did you mean to say big banG theory?

[/FONT][quote name='Rachmaninoff']Assumptions are not the way to go. Don't assume that they know it's wrong, that's why I used the "world is flat" example. They had no reason to assume it was wrong.[/quote]
[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]=/ ...Let me start off by saying that i did not say that they should have assumed it was wrong. Instead i said, they should have allowed for the possibility of it being wrong. For that they had a lot of reason to do. The main reason simply being nobody ever fell off the side of the planet.

It's when you say stuff like that that i feel like you don't know what i meant and therefore repeat myself, hence the circle. Sorry if that came off as mean... [/FONT][quote name='Rachmaninoff']You were going more for blaming the teacher instead of the material, when sometimes it's not the teacher at all. It's the mistaken belief that what they are teaching is correct. So blaming them is pointless, they think that they know the facts. [/quote]
[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]This whole placing of the blame issue is getting very muddled and confusing. ...I almost want to say we should simply agree to disagree... but that's so against my nature. ...Gwah! [/FONT]
[quote name='Rachmaninoff']This is what I'm getting at, I explained it already and you have to keep going in circles over the same thing, only you word it slightly different or clarify a tiny bit when the basics of what I or you said is already done. =P[/quote]
[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]I go over things again because i feel that people do not understand what i have said because they often times state irrelevant points. I'm starting to think it's not from a lack of understanding and is instead from a lack of focus towards the point. I've argued with more people recently and i've realized that some people simply cannot stay on subject. They drift and drift and the argument becomes this tired anecdote about faux-tolerance or some bogus crap like that. So, in conclusion, i'd rather go in circles than go off in some random and irrelevant tangent.

To Godot: I barely understood what your last post said, if you can call that understanding. ...So i'll just say this, i disagree! Bwaha![/FONT]

[Rachmaninoff]

[quote name='The13thMan][FONT="Trebuchet MS"']...I almost want to say we should simply agree to disagree... but that's so against my nature. ...Gwah! [/FONT][/quote]Just say it. I already consider the discussion over anyway. =P [spoiler]I considered it that from the very beginning btw[/spoiler]

[Boo]

[quote name='The13thMan'][FONT="Trebuchet MS"]Big banD theory??? Did you mean to say big banG theory?[/FONT][/QUOTE][size=1]No, did you not hear about this theory? I mean, it is the most plausible one in the world so far. The whole thing is a bit lengthy, but just know that it involves Queen and a lot of kick *** guitar riffs.[/size]

[The13thMan]

[quote name='Rachmaninoff']Just say it. I already consider the discussion over anyway. =P [spoiler]I considered it that from the very beginning btw[/spoiler][/QUOTE]

[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]Don't worry, you're not special, i too foresaw this thread veering wildly off course. I also knew that more touchy subjects such as these have a tendency to go wrong because people aren't able to look at things from an objective and unbiased standpoint. Not to say that i did... I just think it's fun to debate this sort of stuff. Besides.... the only other thing going on in the lounge at the time was a thread where people posted cat pictures.... so you can hardly blame me for starting this thing. I love cats, but c'mon!

[/FONT]

[Allamorph]

[quote name='The13thMan'][font=Trebuchet MS]I also knew that more touchy subjects such as these have a tendency to go wrong because people aren't able to look at things from an objective and unbiased standpoint. Not to say that i did....[/font][/quote]
[font=Arial]I admire the sheer degree of blitheness with which you just spoke.

Actually, these kinds of 'debates' are exactly why such topics can never be discussed seriously anymore. No one wants to learn at all; they just want to argue, to point-and-counterpoint endlessly, without ever reaching the Truth on one side or the other.

To wit:
[QUOTE[/font] name='The13thMan'[font=Arial]][i][font=Trebuchet MS]Besides.... the only other thing going on in the lounge at the time was a thread where people posted cat pictures.... so you can hardly blame me for starting this thing. I love cats, but c'mon![/font][/i][/QUOTE][/font]

[font=Arial]Judging from your motives, I'm truly surprised [color=DarkRed]Retribution[/color] didn't make an appearance. He loves conflict.[/font] Edited March 24, 2012 by Allamorph

[Horendithas]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='The13thMan;820374][FONT="Trebuchet MS"]I also knew that more touchy subjects such as these have a tendency to go wrong because people aren't able to look at things from an objective and unbiased standpoint. Not to say that i did... I just think it's fun to debate this sort of stuff.[/FONT][/QUOTE]It's been argued to death so quite a few of us find the topic boring, far more than threads with cat pictures in them.[quote name='Allamorph'][FONT=Arial'] No one wants to learn at all; they just want to argue, to point-and-counterpoint endlessly, without ever reaching the Truth on one side or the other.[/FONT][/quote]I wouldn't go that far. Some people do actually want to learn. It's those who are only interested in arguing that spoil it for everyone else. So people walk away since they have better things to do with their time. =P

Anyway, if I were to seriously discuss this subject, I'd probably prefer a classroom setting instead of a message board. Still, the actual topic itself doesn't really interest me period. If I ever do want to learn more, I'll hunt down some material and read it.

[B]EDIT:[/B] Oh and I blame the fact that I posted in this thread on you Mr. Morphy. Here I was blissfully reading it without responding and you just had to say something. Bah.[/COLOR]

[The13thMan]

[quote name='Allamorph'][FONT=Arial]I admire the sheer degree of blitheness with which you just spoke.

Actually, these kinds of 'debates' are exactly why such topics can never be discussed seriously anymore. No one wants to learn at all; they just want to argue, to point-and-counterpoint endlessly, without ever reaching the Truth on one side or the other.

To wit:

Judging from your motives, I'm truly surprised [COLOR=DarkRed]Retribution[/COLOR] didn't make an appearance. He loves conflict.[/FONT][/QUOTE]
[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]I was sitting there trying to figure out whether "blitheness" was the word to use or not and what word to use if it wasn't... but i couldn't think of anything. How dissapointing.

He might be a bit too smart for this conversation in this setting. Though, if he does ever read this, i'd love to get a good debate on this subject or any other on a different forum. [/FONT]

[Aaryanna]

[COLOR="DarkGreen"][FONT="Book Antiqua"][quote name='Allamorph'][FONT=Arial]Judging from your motives, I'm truly surprised [COLOR=DarkRed]Retribution[/COLOR] didn't make an appearance. He loves conflict.[/FONT][/QUOTE]I keep waiting for him to show up too. lol Since that would be so him, to argue just to argue. =P

I'm like[COLOR="Indigo"] Indi[/COLOR] though, I'm not interested in discussing it. Probably because around here, people take it way too seriously and get way too worked up over it. Silly religious people... and yes I can say that, I use to be one of them... key phrase, used to. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[DeLarge]

[center][youtube=""][/youtube]
[/center]

[SIZE=1]My thoughts exactly, Mr Izzard.[/SIZE]

[Boo]

[quote name='Aaryanna'][COLOR="DarkGreen"][FONT="Book Antiqua"]Silly religious people... and yes I can say that, I use to be one of them... key phrase, used to. [/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE][size=1]Silly Americans would be more accurate. :whoops:[/size]

[Aaryanna]

[COLOR="DarkGreen"][FONT="Book Antiqua"][quote name='Boo'][size=1]Silly Americans would be more accurate. :whoops:[/size][/QUOTE]No, I can't change being an American and we hardly have the corner on being the only silly people in the world. Silly Boo. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[Boo]

[size=1]In the end, America is pretty much crowded with extremists of both sides. One side will always remain ignorant and silly about anything other than what the bible says. The other side will always remain ignorant and silly about anything religious, casting it away afraid of being brainwashed or whatever else. So like I said: [i]In the end[/i], that's a lot of silly people.

So, point made is that saying American people are silly is at least as dead on as saying religious people are silly. Both being, well... not quite dead on, but very easy remarks to make nonetheless, based on experience.

Besides, "[font=times][size=2]it is not fun to make remarks about "religous people". It is fun to make remarks about Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Jehova's Witnesses, et cetera. At the same time it is fun to make jokes about Germans, Belgians, Frenchmen, [b]Americans[/b], Eastern European people, et cetera.[/size][/font]" ~ Saint Boo II chapter 11 verse 3[/size]

[Retribution]

[quote name='Allamorph'][FONT=Arial]Judging from your motives, I'm truly surprised [COLOR=DarkRed]Retribution[/COLOR] didn't make an appearance. He loves conflict.[/FONT][/QUOTE]
[font=Arial]Hahaha! I would say I derive pleasure from rhetorical flourish, not just conflict. :p

[quote name='The13thMan'][FONT="Trebuchet MS"]He might be a bit too smart for this conversation in this setting. Though, if he does ever read this, i'd love to get a good debate on this subject or any other on a different forum. [/FONT][/QUOTE]
I'm starting to love my newfound online personality.[/font]

[The13thMan]

[quote name='Retribution'][font=Arial]Hahaha! I would say I derive pleasure from rhetorical flourish, not just conflict. :p


I'm starting to love my newfound online personality.[/font][/QUOTE]

[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]What? That's it for the amazing Retribution?? ...psh, what a jiff. [/FONT]

[Aaryanna]

[COLOR="DarkGreen"][FONT="Book Antiqua"][quote name='Boo'][size=1][CENTER]Stuff goes here...[/CENTER][/size][/QUOTE]You won't get any argument from me. We have lots and lots of silly people living here. [B]._.[/B] Since you put in that context/setting I'll agree.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Boo]

[quote name='Aaryanna'][COLOR="DarkGreen"][FONT="Book Antiqua"]You won't get any argument from me. We have lots and lots of silly people living here. [B]._.[/B] Since you put in that context/setting I'll agree.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE][size=1]I don't want an argument, I just want love. ;_;[/size]

[Mr. Blonde]

If I say what I want to say I'm going to get beaten with lash and rod and banned from this site, so I will only say this:

Religion was first designed to explain the unexplainable, but now we have science, so questions are being answered for the first time in our history; questions that people don't neccesarily want answers to. Religions come and go, it's the way of the world, and eventually religion will be abandoned for scientific reasoning. The world changes and ideas that were once considered blasphamis are now commonly accepted as fact. There's always apprehension to something new, it's scary for some people. So everyone should take their time and believe what you want to believe as long as you don't force your beliefs on anyone else.

For me these subjects aren't even comparable. One is a story in a book, the other is scientific fact. I'm sorry, but it's the truth. Religion can not be proven.