Evolution vs. Intelligent Design

[Allamorph]

[quote name='Katakidoushi]For me these subjects aren't even comparable. One is a story in a book, the other is scientific fact. I'm sorry, but it's the truth. Religion can not be [B][U]proved[/U][/B'].[/quote]
[FONT=Arial]I suggest you read some Thomas Aquinas and some Aristotle before you make that assertion. Aquinas relied heavily on Aristotle to prove that science and theology were perfectly able to exist in tandem.

Also, proven. Then again, neither can be proven without extrapolation. (And by 'neither' I mean Evolution and Creation. I agree with [COLOR=DarkRed]The13thMan[/COLOR] that ID was constructed in an attempt to make the two theories coexist, but I find such an act more than a little cowardly. More succinctly, Intelligent Design is a Christian cop-out.)[/FONT]

[TimeChaser]

I haven't read every page of this thread, so forgive me if I repeat what others have already said. I just want to put for my own take on this debate.

I had known for many years about the debate between creationism and science, but I wasn't really made fully aware of this new push for "Intelligent Design" until I saw an episode of [URL="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html"]NOVA[/URL] on PBS about the 2004 court battle in Dover, Pennsylvania over whether Intelligent Design could be included in the high school science curriculum.

Although my family is religious, I also come from a scientific background: my dad is a science teacher, and I was always encouraged to study things on my own and I've avidly watched documentaries and science programs science childhood. I stand firmly in the science camp, because science deals with the physical world, what we can study and measure and test rigorously. Intelligent Design is creationism repackaged and given backing by people who can't honestly claim to be scientists.

What's amazing about Darwin's discovery is that it was made in 19th century. He was able to see that life evolves and changes, without ever knowing the exact process by which it does. Many scientific discoveries since then, especially genetics, have proven over and over how right Darwin was. His theory has withstood over 150 years of scientific scrutiny and still remains.

What many people mistake is the definition of the word "theory" as it applies to science. "In scientific usage, a theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it can in everyday speech. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena. It originates from or is supported by rigorous observations in the natural world, or by experimental evidence (see scientific method). In this sense, a theory is a systematic and formalized expression of all previous observations, and is predictive, logical, and testable." - Wikipedia.

Therefore, Darwin's "theory" doesn't mean Darwin's "guess".

Also, if you argue for Intelligent Design, you find yourself in a conundrum: who designed the designer? Evolution proves that beings of significant intelligence like us take millions of years to develop, and we don't even have omnipotent powers. If everything is too complex to exist without a designer, then that design is too complex itself to have existed without being designed. In that case, you enter an infinite regress that goes backwards forever and has no beginning.

Intelligent Design does not provide clear answers. It basically says, "Everything we see in nature was designed by some omniscient being (God), and we cannot hope to understand the mind of this creator." This explains nothing and grinds scientific investigation to a halt.

One thing I've found that helps explain the intricacies of the debate is the book [B]Intelligent Thought: Science Versus the Intelligent Design Movement[/B], which is a compilation of essays on the subject submitted by several psychologists, biologists, physicists, etc.

[Mr. Blonde]

[quote name='Allamorph'][FONT=Arial]I suggest you read some Thomas Aquinas and some Aristotle before you make that assertion. Aquinas relied heavily on Aristotle to prove that science and theology were perfectly able to exist in tandem.

Also, proven. Then again, neither can be proven without extrapolation. (And by 'neither' I mean Evolution and Creation. I agree with [COLOR=DarkRed]The13thMan[/COLOR] that ID was constructed in an attempt to make the two theories coexist, but I find such an act more than a little cowardly. More succinctly, Intelligent Design is a Christian cop-out.)[/FONT][/QUOTE]

And I suggest you comprehend my post fully before replying to it. I didn't say these ideas could not co-exist. I simply said they could not be compared to one another. And while evolution is not able to be "100% proven" it is a lot more reliable of a sourch with scientific evidence to back it, which is why it is widely considered to be scientific fact, as I've stated.

And Aquinas was a philosopher (not to mention a catholic priest), who studied more human behavior and its relation to the existance of God, which has no bearing on this subject matter. Evolution was not even introduced until hundreds of years after Aquinas' death.

And I realize I put a 'd' at the end of proven instead of an 'n' but i didn't feel it was important enough to go back and fix it, but I have now. So congratulations.

[Sabrina]

[FONT="Tahoma"][quote name='TimeChaser']Intelligent Design does not provide clear answers. It basically says, "Everything we see in nature was designed by some omniscient being (God), and we cannot hope to understand the mind of this creator." This explains nothing and grinds scientific investigation to a halt.[/quote]This is where I wonder if I understand Intelligent Design well enough or not. Anyway, my thoughts here are why are you saying it grinds scientific investigation to a halt? Whether or not we can understand the mind of our creator is really irrelevant if you think about it. The way I see it is simple.

Intelligent Design (and what I've been taught could be different than what's up to be stuffed into schools) is suppose to indicate someone who already knows all of the science, as it were, behind how things would have been created. It's not meant to put an end to it.

My second understanding is that to explore and understand the universe and how it works, is to become closer to God. The theory isn't meant to exclude science at all. I don't buy into the idea that they aren't compatible. (science and religion)

I think what really hinders us when it comes to understanding how it came to be is our own ignorance on the matter. We've got a long ways to go before we figure out all the secrets of the universe.

Just as I'm willing to accept that I could be wrong about God existing, I think others need to be willing to accept the possibility that someone who already knows and understands the science that we are still learning about, could exist.

Oh and just to be clear, I do see that the principal behind Intelligent Design is flawed, but the overall idea I think on some levels is sound. So what I'm trying to say that I believe science and religion can and do mix.[/FONT]

[Mr. Blonde]

[quote name='Sabrina'][FONT="Tahoma"]
Just as I'm willing to accept that I could be wrong about God existing, I think others need to be willing to accept the possibility that someone who already knows and understands the science that we are still learning about, could exist.
[/FONT][/QUOTE]

This could be the most sensible response in this entire thread. Everyone has been throwing around the weight of their own brains for nearly 5 pages now and this is just one of those subjects (like sexuality and politics) that will (at least in our lifetime) not be given a definitive resolution. I think people are opposed to accepting new ideas largely on the way they're presented. If you immediately insult someone you're going to lose them. If you go into a church screaming "God is dead" and then try to teach the congregation science experiments, you're going to be out of luck. I'm not saying I haven't been guilty of doing a bit of the same (not to that extreme of course) but Sabrina's comment has perhaps lightened my feelings (at least for this moment), which is no easy task.

[TimeChaser]

[quote name='Sabrina'][FONT="Tahoma"]Intelligent Design (and what I've been taught could be different than what's up to be stuffed into schools) is suppose to indicate someone who already knows all of the science, as it were, behind how things would have been created. It's not meant to put an end to it.[/FONT][/QUOTE]

And who would that be?

Nobody has 100% knowledge of everything. The point I attempted to make was there is a clear difference between the supernatural and the natural. Science uncovers what drives the natural world by observation and consistent experimentation. Intelligent Design cannot do this, because there is no way to test the claim that a supreme being designed anything. Once you've made a claim for the supernatural, you can't go any further, therefore your exploration stops without successfully proving anything.

[Sabrina]

[FONT="Tahoma"][QUOTE=TimeChaser]And who would that be?

Nobody has 100% knowledge of everything. The point I attempted to make was there is a clear difference between the supernatural and the natural. Science uncovers what drives the natural world by observation and consistent experimentation. Intelligent Design cannot do this, because there is no way to test the claim that a supreme being designed anything. Once you've made a claim for the supernatural, you can't go any further, therefore your exploration stops without successfully proving anything.[/QUOTE]I thought that was a given, who it would be. Plus I think you are missing my point. Whether or not God really exists isn't the issue. It doesn't stop us from learning more about how things were created.

Right now supernatural and natural are seen as two seperate entities since our understanding is too limited to put the connection together. ID is saying that the connection is there. It's our job to study science and get to the point where we can see it. Whether that connection is real or not.

I'm not sure where the confusion is since believing in a creator doesn't exclude or require that we instantly toss out evolution or science. I think people get too caught up in the idea that only one can exist instead of looking for truth in both.

You say nobody has 100% knowledge of everything, so doesn't that fit into what I said about accepting (for me) that God might not exist just as for you (and others) accepting that it's possible he does?

I'm not here to prove anything, I'm saying we still have a lot to learn and I'm not going to toss out the possibility or existence of God just because our own knowledge is too limited to really know one way or the other.

My claim to the supernatural is where I want to be at some point, so for now, I'm relying on science to get there. Does that make sense? I am not stopping my exploration, I'm saying I think that's where it will eventually lead.[/FONT]

[Anime_girl5]

God created the world. Theres proof all around you.
How could nothing be created into somthing?
If we came from monkeys, how come there are still monkeys? wouldnt they be humans like us?


I have alot of people mad at me about this. but oh well, idc. lol


Theres no big bang.
Charels Darwin ( the creator of evolution) said on his death bed that he was wrong, and he wanted to back all that he said.

rly idk how he came up with that crap. lol


But the Bible is right. God created the whole world, and everything.

I wont get deep into it like I ushally do...
cause i'm new, and I dont ya'll thinking that I'm rude or somthing.
so for now I'm leaving it at that. :):catgirl:

[TimeChaser]

[quote name='Anime_girl5']If we came from monkeys, how come there are still monkeys? wouldnt they be humans like us?

Charels Darwin ( the creator of evolution) said on his death bed that he was wrong, and he wanted to back all that he said.[/QUOTE]

I'm not out to be mean to anyone so don't worry. :animesmil

However, I can refute these two claims.

1) Darwin never said we came from monkeys. He said humans and other primates are descended from a common ancestor. The whole monkeys thing was a smear campaign his critics used to attack him.

2) Darwin did not recant evolution on his deathbed. Taken from Wiki: "The “Lady Hope Story”, published in 1915, claimed that Darwin had reverted back to Christianity on his sickbed. The claims were refuted by Darwin’s children and have been dismissed as false by historians. His daughter, Henrietta, who was at his deathbed, said that he did not convert to Christianity."

Oh, and he did not "create" evolution. He discovered the process through his observations and research.

[Vicky]

[quote name='Anime_girl5']God created the world. Theres proof all around you.
How could nothing be created into somthing?
If we came from monkeys, how come there are still monkeys? wouldnt they be humans like us?[/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]You can't create something out of nothing, correct. Therefore you cannot have a God. Wait, he was always there, right? Then why is it not possible that some kind of substance, or some other form, was [i]always there[/i]? Or some kind of Prime Mover that [i]isn't[/i] your god? It irritates me when people use the excuse "You can't create something out of nothing, [i]but God[/i]...". Christianity is full of making exceptions to the 'rules' - what's the point of having them?

We did not come from 'monkeys' and Time Chaser has already stated - we share a common ancestor. You can look this all up on Wikipedia yourself.

And your statement about Darwin has no proof at all and seems more like a little fallacy made up about him than anything else. You know, you don't have to be an atheist to believe in evolution, there's plenty of Christians who believe in it (though whether Darwin is an atheist is something I never looked up myself, best ask someone else).[/size]

[Raiha]

[quote name='Vicky'][SIZE=1]We did not come from 'monkeys' and Time Chaser has already stated - we share a common ancestor. You can look this all up on Wikipedia yourself.
[/size][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]I don't accept the science behind wikipedia any more than the science given to me in my college and high school textbooks. It's a theory. Theoretical. And since we can't reproduce that whole 'making new species' thing I'm pretty sure it's as of yet unproven. In the same way we can't disprove it, just like God and the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause.

Oh tragedy.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Vicky]

[quote name='Raiha'][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]I don't accept the science behind wikipedia any more than the science given to me in my college and high school textbooks. It's a theory. Theoretical. And since we can't reproduce that whole 'making new species' thing I'm pretty sure it's as of yet unproven. In the same way we can't disprove it, just like God and the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause.

Oh tragedy.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[size=1]I only said Wiki because it's the easiest accessible, well known and all that jazz. I rather dislike the site myself anyway =p[/size]

[TimeChaser]

[quote name='Raiha'][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]It's a theory. Theoretical. And since we can't reproduce that whole 'making new species' thing I'm pretty sure it's as of yet unproven. In the same way we can't disprove it, just like God and the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause.

Oh tragedy.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

To repeat what I posted in the previous page about the word "theory" in the context of science:

[B]What many people mistake is the definition of the word "theory" as it applies to science. "In scientific usage, a theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it can in everyday speech. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena. It originates from or is supported by rigorous observations in the natural world, or by experimental evidence (see scientific method). In this sense, a theory is a systematic and formalized expression of all previous observations, and is predictive, logical, and testable."[/B]

Evolution has practically been proven except that we can't see it happening as it takes place over millions of years. But we do know mutation and environmental conditions act in tandem with natural selection to produce change in life forms.

[Raiha]

[quote name='TimeChaser']Evolution has practically been proven except that we can't see it happening as it takes place over millions of years. But we do know mutation and environmental conditions act in tandem with natural selection to produce change in life forms.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Practically proven? And you're right, we can't see it happening over millions of years. I also believe humans weren't around millions of years ago to even notice. And yes, mutation and natural selection occur in nature around us, but I don't believe that that isn't the hand of God at work.

And as far as theory and science go, don't preach to me about what constitutes theory. I know my Biology and I know how complicated the human body is. I find it difficult to believe that all of this happened as a happy sort of accident. Too many things could've gone wrong in the mutation process. I also believe that cross breeding between races like Chinese and German, Black and Asian, can result in interesting genetic changes. I can see the science in that. But until you bring me a creature that's the 'great throwback' or capture for me another Piltdown man I'll just happily disagree with the theory of evolution as it's preached to us in school as proven fact.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[TimeChaser]

[quote name='Raiha'][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Practically proven? And you're right, we can't see it happening over millions of years. I also believe humans weren't around millions of years ago to even notice. And yes, mutation and natural selection occur in nature around us, but I don't believe that that isn't the hand of God at work.

And as far as theory and science go, don't preach to me about what constitutes theory. I know my Biology and I know how complicated the human body is. I find it difficult to believe that all of this happened as a happy sort of accident. Too many things could've gone wrong in the mutation process. I also believe that cross breeding between races like Chinese and German, Black and Asian, can result in interesting genetic changes. I can see the science in that. But until you bring me a creature that's the 'great throwback' or capture for me another Piltdown man I'll just happily disagree with the theory of evolution as it's preached to us in school as proven fact.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Well until we see it happen, it will never be 100% proven. But it's more proven than supernatural explanations, which can't even be tested or verified.

Plus, all mutations are "wrong" in the first place. A mutation is when the genetics isn't sequenced properly. These mistakes are coupled with the environmental factors to develop adaptations. Not all adaptations succeed, but some do.

And Piltdown Man was long ago exposed as a hoax, so that isn't a valid exampled of a "missing link".

[Raiha]

[quote name='TimeChaser']
And Piltdown Man was long ago exposed as a hoax, so that isn't a valid exampled of a "missing link".[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]I was kidding sweetie. I know he's a hoax. I also know that a variety of other "missing links" are also hoaxes, no matter how much some scientists try to use them to get famous. Donkey jawbone, dolphin vertebrae, ape skulls, etc.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Allamorph]

[QUOTE=Anime_girl5]God created the world. Theres proof all around you.
How could nothing be created into somthing?
If we came from monkeys, how come there are still monkeys? wouldnt they be humans like us?

I have alot of people mad at me about this. but oh well, idc. lol

Theres no big bang.
Charels Darwin ( the creator of evolution) said on his death bed that he was wrong, and he wanted to back all that he said.

rly idk how he came up with that crap. lol

But the Bible is right. God created the whole world, and everything.

I wont get deep into it like I ushally do...
cause i'm new, and I dont ya'll thinking that I'm rude or somthing.
so for now I'm leaving it at that. :):catgirl:[/QUOTE]
[FONT=Arial]This is a prime example of why, as a Creationist, I can hope to get very little respect. Arguments against a theory cannot be trite and shallow or they will be dismissed within seconds. Broad, sweeping statements with no reasonings or proofs will be ignored.

One cannot ever hope to topple the theory of a man who based his entire understanding in the scientific pursuit of evidence, rooted in the desire to find out, by merely reciting what one has been told.

At the moment I have a few bits of physics to take care of, and then sleep, otherwise I'd drill [COLOR=DarkRed]TimeChaser[/COLOR] over genetics (I have sincere reservations and not enough knowledge to accurately back myself up). Mostly I'm curious how data gets [I]added[/I], since from what little I understand reproduction causes an inevitable data [I]loss[/I].[/FONT]

[Anime_girl5]

[quote name='Vicky'][SIZE=1]You can't create something out of nothing, correct. Therefore you cannot have a God. Wait, he was always there, right? Then why is it not possible that some kind of substance, or some other form, was [i]always there[/i]? Or some kind of Prime Mover that [i]isn't[/i] your god? It irritates me when people use the excuse "You can't create something out of nothing, [i]but God[/i]...". Christianity is full of making exceptions to the 'rules' - what's the point of having them?

We did not come from 'monkeys' and Time Chaser has already stated - we share a common ancestor. You can look this all up on Wikipedia yourself.

And your statement about Darwin has no proof at all and seems more like a little fallacy made up about him than anything else. You know, you don't have to be an atheist to believe in evolution, there's plenty of Christians who believe in it (though whether Darwin is an atheist is something I never looked up myself, best ask someone else).[/size][/QUOTE]



from what I have learned they said we came from monkeys. I know what I'm talking about.
they gave that whole crap thing about monkeys, to cav men, to humans. it's all bull!


Ok ready?


1) theres is a God.
He has always been there. And he will always be there. He has never been created, and can never be destroyed. Only God was there, thats it. all alone. no matter, nothing but God!
He finally created the world. but Adam and eve, messed up the perfect world by sining.


2) Like I said. Nothing can not be created into somthing.
if it's nothing, then it will never be a somthing.
For somthing to be created, it has to be created by someone. And thats where God comes in. He created the whole world!


Read the Bible, the KJV, and u'll understand.
Dont let the foolish world tell you what else. The bible says it all!


Ok, Charels Darwin actully did creat evloution. Because he had to much pride. and wanted to be greater than God. ( by which is not possible.)
Then he realized that he was wrong, and wanted to take it back.
I've done research on it.


And like I said, I know what I'm talking about.

I wont just go on somthing and start talking, now knowing what I am talking about.

That wouldnt only make me look stupid, it would just be plain out right stupid.:animesigh

[Vicky]

[quote name='Anime_girl5']


Read the Bible, the KJV, and u'll understand.
Dont let the foolish world tell you what else. The bible says it all!


[/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]Written by men (carrying the original sin therefore imperfect). Interpreted by men. Dictated by men. An authority over people - don't let authority be the truth, kid. I'm all for religion but organised religion is another thing; if you're going to believe then think about what you're believing in and actually give some kind of evidence, philosophical, scientific or even remotely logical, to back it up. Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.

Also, I don't think you know if Charles Darwin had any pride of not. You didn't know him, meet him, see him. We can only go off his work - and if coming up with alternatives, whether it be true or false, is pride then nearly everyone is guilty of this little sin.

You have your god. I have none. So unless you can come up with something more than just statements, you have very little right to say "it's all just bull" because all that 'bull' is [i]my[/i] belief. You don't hear me saying your belief is 'all bull'.

Equal respect kid.[/size]

[Anime_girl5]

[quote name='Vicky'][SIZE=1]Written by men (carrying the original sin therefore imperfect). Interpreted by men. Dictated by men. An authority over people - don't let authority be the truth, kid. I'm all for religion but organised religion is another thing; if you're going to believe then think about what you're believing in and actually give some kind of evidence, philosophical, scientific or even remotely logical, to back it up. Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.

Also, I don't think you know if Charles Darwin had any pride of not. You didn't know him, meet him, see him. We can only go off his work - and if coming up with alternatives, whether it be true or false, is pride then nearly everyone is guilty of this little sin.

You have your god. I have none. So unless you can come up with something more than just statements, you have very little right to say "it's all just bull" because all that 'bull' is [i]my[/i] belief. You don't hear me saying your belief is 'all bull'.

Equal respect kid.[/size][/QUOTE]



I have the Bible to back my up 100%.

and if u were any more open u would fall apart. LOL sry I just had to say that.

anyways...

actully, u didnt know charels! no one on this forum did. no one is perfectly right.
but I am allowed to go by I have learned. it's part of freedom of speech.


U cant back what what you believe. U dont believe that theres a God, so i'm guessing that u dont believe in heaven or hell.

man, even tho I dont know u, I would rly hate to see you go to hell.

read a track, the bible (KJV) thats all the proof I need.



And my religion goes by what God wants. His way! The only right way.


" For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever belieth in Him shoukd not perish, but have everlasting life" : John 3:16


Dude, I want to witness to you, but u'll get all freaky on me. and this is not exactly the place to witness.



My religion is not organised. It's a happy one. The only one you can find peace and happiness. Good luck on finding it anywhere else. because you cant.

without Christ you are nothing. and that goes along with everyone.


and how old r u? Unless u r WAY older than me, I do not believe that u shall call me a kid. :) but that depnds on u...


OH btw! Ths Bible, thats right. Written by men. IN their own words, God guieded their hand.
Gave them the knowleg on what to write. all the things in the bible r true.

God worked on the earth for 6 days, and took a rest on the 7th, which is a Sunday.

dude, I know WAY more about my religion than u'll ever know.

See... pretty much the bible was written by God.


God made the earth. Simple as that. if you can understand that. well there ya go, somthings wrong.

I dont see how someone cant understand sokthing so simple. But for you to really understand it all, you would have to read the bible ( KJV).


Btw, in the other Bible's, they're written by man.

God says never change my word, and man has. The KJV is the only one that has not been changed.



I havce been going to church my whole life. Saved and everything. So trust me I know what I am talking about.

Everyone has a voice. I will hear yours... only if you are willing to hear mine.


thank you very much....:animesigh

[Raiha]

[quote name='Anime_girl5']
and how old r u? Unless u r WAY older than me, I do not believe that u shall call me a kid. :) but that depnds on u...

dude, I know WAY more about my religion than u'll ever know.

...:animesigh[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]*clears throat quietly* She's about 16, and if she's calling you kid it's because your spelling and writing aren't on par with hers. I am way older than you, and I'll call you kid for all the reasons I'd call anyone kid. A diminutive.

And I really really REALLY doubt you know more about your religion than anyone else that even cares to know about it. You can't post in a debate 'Because God Says So' because that just won't fly with any skeptic. And talking about witnessing in a thread designed for Intelligent Design and Evolution theories isn't exactly a good idea, nor does it do anything to advance the cause of people who might also be religious.

Like. Me.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Vicky]

[quote name='Anime_girl5']I have the Bible to back my up 100%.

and if u were any more open u would fall apart. LOL sry I just had to say that.

anyways...

actully, u didnt know charels! no one on this forum did. no one is perfectly right.
but I am allowed to go by I have learned. it's part of freedom of speech.


U cant back what what you believe. U dont believe that theres a God, so i'm guessing that u dont believe in heaven or hell.

man, even tho I dont know u, I would rly hate to see you go to hell.

read a track, the bible (KJV) thats all the proof I need.



And my religion goes by what God wants. His way! The only right way.


" For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever belieth in Him shoukd not perish, but have everlasting life" : John 3:16


Dude, I want to witness to you, but u'll get all freaky on me. and this is not exactly the place to witness.



My religion is not organised. It's a happy one. The only one you can find peace and happiness. Good luck on finding it anywhere else. because you cant.

without Christ you are nothing. and that goes along with everyone.


and how old r u? Unless u r WAY older than me, I do not believe that u shall call me a kid. :) but that depnds on u...


OH btw! Ths Bible, thats right. Written by men. IN their own words, God guieded their hand.
Gave them the knowleg on what to write. all the things in the bible r true.

God worked on the earth for 6 days, and took a rest on the 7th, which is a Sunday.

dude, I know WAY more about my religion than u'll ever know.

See... pretty much the bible was written by God.


God made the earth. Simple as that. if you can understand that. well there ya go, somthings wrong.

I dont see how someone cant understand sokthing so simple. But for you to really understand it all, you would have to read the bible ( KJV).


Btw, in the other Bible's, they're written by man.

God says never change my word, and man has. The KJV is the only one that has not been changed.



I havce been going to church my whole life. Saved and everything. So trust me I know what I am talking about.

Everyone has a voice. I will hear yours... only if you are willing to hear mine.


thank you very much....:animesigh[/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]Please stop dictating to me what I already know. My family is Catholic. I went to Catholic schools all my life. I have the top grade in my former high school in Theology. The woman who taught me philosophy was an avid Christian. I'm studying Theology and I plan to do so in University - [i]do not[/i] dictate to me what I already know as if I'm some uneducated idiot. And, trust me, I know what [i]I'm[/i] talking about.

And I'm allowed to go by what I learnt. The difference between me is that I'm not accusing Charles Darwin of being arrogant - you are.

I already stated I cannot back what I believe, but I'm not throwing out random statements and claiming I'm an [i]idiot[/i] (don't call me simple, please) because I do not believe what you believe. I don't believe God created the world - I ACKNOWLEDGE IT AS A THEORY - I'm not ignorant.

Do not claim I cannot find happiness elsewhere because - shock horror - I can and I have. I'm perfectly happy and content in my own faith.

Do not claim I am nothing because I don't believe in your Saviour. Do you want me to make silly claims because you don't acknowledge other theories as a possible alternative? No, because, lo and behold, I have some shred of respect for other people.

DO NOT ASSUME you know more about religion than someone when you've never met them or even talked to them. As I stated I plan on studying theology LONG after I'm done with education - why do you assume because I'm not a theist, you know more than me? You just committed a sin - pride and arrogance. How does that feel?

I am willing to hear yours but I'm not willing to listen to that kind of attitude, the attitude that assumes I'm some sort of uneducated atheist who knows nothing about religion and doesn't fathom other theories. I acknowledge - I don't have to believe nor do I want to.

Let's not assume, either, from this post I'm not listening to you. Disagreeing does not mean ignorance, I listen and I have my own conclusions from everything people have ever said to me. Religion is beautiful and wonderful in the right hands, the majority of my friends are Christians and I respect them because they respect my belief. That's all it is, a Christianity in a world of belief.

Choose your words carefully next time and try not to insult people in every line, thanks, kid.[/size]

[Anime_girl5]

[quote name='Raiha'][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]*clears throat quietly* She's about 16, and if she's calling you kid it's because your spelling and writing aren't on par with hers. I am way older than you, and I'll call you kid for all the reasons I'd call anyone kid. A diminutive.

And I really really REALLY doubt you know more about your religion than anyone else that even cares to know about it. You can't post in a debate 'Because God Says So' because that just won't fly with any skeptic. And talking about witnessing in a thread designed for Intelligent Design and Evolution theories isn't exactly a good idea, nor does it do anything to advance the cause of people who might also be religious.

Like. Me.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]



1) everyone has a religion. No matter what they believe. they can say that they dont have one. Even tho they do.



2) I dont care if you call me a kid. I'm sure u are way older than me...
but I know shes 16. and I am older.


3) My spelling is for the computer. I dont spell like this for school!
It's faster, and better.


4) Actully, there are other people out there who believe what I believe. And they know more about it than I do.
I mean as comparing myself to her, and I guess u now. Cause have entered this...
But I'm sure that I know more about it than ya'll do.


5) The Bible backs me up. Try reading it. It wouldnt Kill you!
I know for a fact that it's right. I wasnt lied to. and I've written papers on other religions, and the Bible backs me up. and has proven people wrong.



6) it feels like I'm getting a bad rep. and dont get christians wrong.
right now I'm ticked and tired, but I never give up.
Christians try to serve God, and do his will. We spen hours knocking on peoples doors, witnessing.
And go to church many times.
Btw, I'm not Catholic. Being Catholic is not christian. Theres many diffrent belifes there.



7) I dont think u own the forum...
If I wanted to I would witness on here. But I'm smarter than that. :)
I know when it is the right time to witness.
And nows not the time. If I did witness to you, trust me it wouldnt be on here.



btw, I wanna make friends on here. so if I get into fights with any of ya'll. I would rather put friendship over that. :)
I just thought that I would say that. :):animeswea:catgirl:

[Nathan]

[FONT="Arial"]Ignoring all the drama...[SIZE="1"] Because I'm too lazy to respond to it, simple as that [/SIZE] - When it comes down to it, even though I am not a believer of religion, I'm more inclined to agree with what Sabrina said here: [quote]Just as I'm willing to accept that I could be wrong about God existing, I think others need to be willing to accept the possibility that someone who already knows and understands the science that we are still learning about, could exist. [/quote]Now that might seem like a cop out, but I see it as refusing to close the doors on all of the possibilities out there. However, I don't advocate placing ID in schools, yes that's a contradiction, sorry. I base it on those who are a bit wacky when it comes to insisting science (evolution) is wrong. [/FONT]

[Raiha]

[quote name='Anime_girl5']
3) My spelling is for the computer. I dont spell like this for school!
It's faster, and better.

I mean as comparing myself to her, and I guess u now. Cause have entered this...
But I'm sure that I know more about it than ya'll do.
[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Please spell like you do for school, it means we can take you seriously instead of writing you off immediately.

And I'm also sure that your arrogance is going to cost you dearly. I am a minister's daughter and the niece and grandchild of Lutheran Christian parsons. I have been steeped in Christianity from the day I was born, anointed with sacred oil, blessed with holy water, and Confirmed before deacons of the Lutheran church. I can recite you scriptures on command, tell you their meanings, and exegete Jeremiah to you with half my brain tied behind my back. Comparing yourself to me and your own simple grasp of Christianity is not only laughable, it is needlessly patronizing.

However because I take pity on you, I'll tell you right now that you can leave off the witnessing to anyone who isn't interested. So like everyone on the boards. [/FONT][/COLOR]