Asexual Reproduction?

[Rachmaninoff]

I ran across this article the other day: [URL="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-511391/Death-father-British-scientists-discover-turn-womens-bone-marrow-sperm.html"][U]Death of the father: British scientists discover how to turn women's bone marrow into sperm[/U][/URL] The whole idea is that they apparently can use a woman's bone marrow to create sperm. Basically, using artificial means for babies being born.

I'm curious about a couple of things here. Whether or not you've heard about this and if you have what you think of it. I don't recall reading about this before so I'm not sure what I think. I'll have to read up on it before I say much either way.

On the surface, looking past the obvious issues of defects and so forth, I don't really have an issue with the idea. Though that could change once I learn more about it. Anyway, your thoughts?

[Retribution]

[font=Arial]Assuming the child can be born physically healthy, I don't really see a problem with it. The scientific implications are profound, but socially I don't consider this a big deal (at least personally).[/font]

[Darren]

But hey, it helps gays and lesbians, because now they can have children with their partners without having to seek out someone from the opposite sex to be the biological parent. (of course, men would still need a surrogate mother) If that's the case (and there aren't any horrible side effects to either the child or the mother) then I don't see a problem with it. It just sounds strange to think that science has come so far... It reminds of some strange sci-fi novel.

[The Spectacular Professor]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Well then. This is... interesting. There's really only one question that popped into my mind here, though.

[I]"Why?"[/I][/FONT]

[Gelgoog Pilot]

I have a feeling that this started by either accident or simply as a way to help couples that are incapable of producing children together.

When I say by accident I mean that they were studying stem cells and stumbled or realized this option or theory. I think that they were searching for a way to combat infertility though.

That's what really interested me, the fact that it would prove useful for same-sex couples seems a bonus (and a way to give this research a little lime-light). Personally I would find it devastating to learn that I was sterile and I imagine it would be just as terrible to learn if you were a woman. Think how relieving it would be to know that you could still have children with a procedure like this. I hope that any side-effects or dangers are minimal.

By the way, this really doesn't count as asexuality, there is still fertilization involved.

[The13thMan]

[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]I have a subscription to the New Scientist magazine and i tried finding the article Rach's link refered to but could not. Instead i found an oddly similar one. The one i read said they took stem cells from baby teeth and injected them into mouse testes to produce sperm cells. Some of the sperm cells produced resembled human ones, but some mixed with the mouse cells and were...weird.

That aside, i think it'll be interesting to see it. It can be beneficial to anybody that cannot have a baby on his/her own. I'd love to see how the churchs and various religions of the world see this. Science gone horribly wrong! When will man learn not to play God?! Oh lord! Ah, fooey.

Either way i think the science is a long way off before any of us sees any practical use of it... if ever. [/FONT]

[Doublehex]

[quote name='Darren']But hey, it helps gays and lesbians, because now they can have children with their partners without having to seek out someone from the opposite sex to be the biological parent. (of course, men would still need a surrogate mother) If that's the case (and there aren't any horrible side effects to either the child or the mother) then I don't see a problem with it. It just sounds strange to think that science has come so far... It reminds of some strange sci-fi novel.[/QUOTE]

You know, it [I]is[/I] weird. Before you know it, we will be reaching the point where we pretty much live in Blade Runner.

[Raiha]

[quote name='Matt']You know, it [I]is[/I] weird. Before you know it, we will be reaching the point where we pretty much live in Blade Runner.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Or Logan's Run, or Brave New World. YOU NEVER KNOW!

Thank you 13th man for immediately putting words into the mouths of every major religion in the world instead of considering the ideology behind their belief systems. As a Christian, I was raised, and still believe, that all new life is special, a miracle, a gift from God, and so on and so forth. This belief is held among many of my religiously inclined peers, regardless of how this came along. Even if we disagree with the methods used to produce such an existence such as a clone, or this particular method, the child produced would still be a unique soul, a child of God, and someone worth cherishing.

And most Christian/Muslim humans are of the general conclusion that man is both inherently evil and prideful and should not play God. However we all are aware that man is incapable of not wanting to play God so I doubt more of that old tired canard will be trotted out except by the most overtly passionate, loud-mouthed, or radical of our kind.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Gavin]

[SIZE="1"]Well, that's my "learn one new weird thing a day" requirement completed.

I've no particular stance for, or against this so long as it can be proven to be genetically safe for the future unborn. Really the whole concept of human asexual reproduction is just a big strange to digest. Obviously this does represent a great hope to couples who can't have children for various reasons.

On the whole "sidelining of men" in terms of reproduction, it's obvious that in the dystopian future male gangs will simply kidnap women from their utopian cities for impregnation...Maybe we should make an RPG about that, definitely weird enough. :animesmil[/SIZE]

[The13thMan]

[quote name='Raiha'][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]...so I doubt more of that old tired canard will be trotted out except by the most overtly passionate, loud-mouthed, or radical of our kind.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]Which are the ones we all hear about, regardless of the majority opinion. Those are the ones i'm interested in hearing. Not because i value their opinion... but because i need to giggle from time to time.

Besiiiiides, i'm not really [I][U]that [/U][/I]ignorant. Most of my friends are religious and my best friend is a catholic. I just like to give ya'll crap. Feel free to throw some back at me time and time again. [/FONT]

[Vicky]

[size=1][quote name='Ace']"Why?"[/quote]

Lesbian utopia.

Me and a friend had a discussion about that when we heard about asexual reproduction a couple of months ago. The whole lesbian utopia is on wikipedia somewhere - face it, at some point you men are going to be completely obsolete =p.

Joking aside, I've no serious opinion on the matter. One small leap for science methinks.[/size]

[Darren]

[quote name='Vicky'][size=1]The whole lesbian utopia is on wikipedia somewhere - face it, at some point you men are going to be completely obsolete =p.[/size][/QUOTE]

Well, actually... The article said that two men would also be able to produce a child so long as they had a surrogate mother. It's the same situation. Use stem cells to transform them into male egg cells... Only difference, male couples could still create a girl or a boy, whereas lesbian couples could only create another female. (as they lack the Y chromosome regardless of the cell... It's strange to think: an XX sperm cell and an XY egg cell. Imagine the massive recall on all school textbooks if this becomes common practice years down the line)

[Vicky]

[size=1]Why you gotta undermine me like that D? =(

Haha, well, I suppose we can have two seperate utopia's - of course, it doesn't matter if women can only create women, since it's a women utopia ;p.[/size]

[Lunar]

[COLOR="Indigo"][FONT="Book Antiqua"]Well.............
So far, I'm against this whole thing. messing with nature......bad move. i think the baby would be born with defects because........messing with nature. if God intended for sperms to be made out of female bone marrow, he would have done it already. yeesh.......the end of the world is coming soon......all the signs[/FONT][/COLOR].

[Raiha]

[quote name='Lunar'][COLOR="Indigo"][FONT="Book Antiqua"]Well.............
So far, I'm against this whole thing. messing with nature......bad move. i think the baby would be born with defects because........messing with nature. if God intended for sperms to be made out of female bone marrow, he would have done it already. yeesh.......the end of the world is coming soon......all the signs[/FONT][/COLOR].[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Well as I recall, Dolly was cloned from the mammary of a 6 year old female sheep.

And she died six years later, as most sheep die at the age of 12 or so. So these humans won't live as long? Will this be like Ender's Shadow and Bean? Or are the stem cells fetal and whatnot? There's so many questions I'd like answered but I suppose we'll have to wait.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Lunar]

[quote name='Raiha'][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Well as I recall, Dolly was cloned from the mammary of a 6 year old female sheep.

And she died six years later, as most sheep die at the age of 12 or so. So these humans won't live as long? [/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Indigo"][FONT="Book Antiqua"]Exactly. it's exactly the same as the sheep. us humans cannot figure out [I]exactly[/I] how and why everything works the way it does. like for example.......breast milk. sure we have formula (which is expensive) but results have proven that breast fed babies tend to be smarter than babies fed on formula. if women fed their babies breast milk, they would be saving money and bringing up a smart citizen.:catgirl:[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Vicky]

[size=1]'God didn't intend it...'

God didn't intend for us to be vegetarians, but I don't see them guys getting the stick. =)

If we shouldn't be messing with nature then we should let disease run its course. We shouldn't even have doctors. I think the God excuse is a rather weak one - science should be allowed to run its course and people should realise it's not [i]against[/i] nature, really. Our [i]nature[/i] is running around with animal skin, no computers, no internet and nothing of the sort that was brought about by science. Just because it's man-made doesn't mean God didn't intend it.[/size]

[chibi-master]

[quote name='Lunar'][COLOR="Indigo"][FONT="Book Antiqua"]if women fed their babies breast milk, they would be saving money and bringing up a smart citizen.:catgirl:[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

What if they fed the babies goat's milk? It's really nutricious! Wouldn't you rather have happy, healthy, goat-a-licious babies than have the planet crawling with poopy-diapered genius children? I would!

[Lunar]

[quote name='Vicky'][size=1]'God didn't intend it...'

God didn't intend for us to be vegetarians, but I don't see them guys getting the stick. =)

If we shouldn't be messing with nature then we should let disease run its course. We shouldn't even have doctors. I think the God excuse is a rather weak one - science should be allowed to run its course and people should realise it's not [i]against[/i] nature, really. Our [i]nature[/i] is running around with animal skin, no computers, no internet and nothing of the sort that was brought about by science. Just because it's man-made doesn't mean God didn't intend it.[/size][/QUOTE]
[COLOR="Indigo"][FONT="Book Antiqua"]
Just because God didn't intend it didn't mean that we would get sick. God gave us a choice, and in the Bible we did just eat fruit and vegetables, but God gave us [I]permission[/I] to eat meat, so we didn't just eat meat without His consent. you see, God gave us what they use for fighting disease in nature. when you look at the ingredients, most of it is from [I]nature[/I] our nature is not in fact running around with animal skin........we get everything we use from nature......without nature, it would be impossible. everything man-made does not mean God didn't intend, i agree with that, but some of this stuff they are doing now is directly against nature. For most of the things we're doing now, it's obvious it's against God. now tell me what would we be without plants and animals? Ya [I]heard[/I] me?[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Vicky]

[size=1]Really, anything scientific isn't [i]nature[/i], so therefore the majority of civilization is against nature. I think this kind of topic, that being asexual reproduction, will be a taboo for a good fifty years or so after it's perfected, or even more, but it's just going to end up like all the other stuff that was 'against nature' - allowed and mostly accepted.[/size]

[chibi-master]

Hmm...sorry, Lunar. In my opinionative scoring:

VICKY: 1

LUNAR: 0

God excuses are not valid in the scoring.:animesigh But now we're getting off-subject.
I have no arguments about this news. Good for the people wanting to use this new system and I wish them luck. Though I AM Catholic, I am not an obbsesive one. I believe in mostly science, actually. I feel that science often gives me better and more absolute answers, and as such, I guess I support this bone marrow idea.:animesmil

[Lunar]

[quote name='chibi-master']What if they fed the babies goat's milk? It's really nutricious! Wouldn't you rather have happy, healthy, goat-a-licious babies than have the planet crawling with poopy-diapered genius children? I would![/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkSlateGray"]Again, goat's milk is natural. what the heck is goat -a- licious?[/COLOR]

[Darren]

[quote name='Raiha'][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Or are the stem cells fetal and whatnot? There's so many questions I'd like answered but I suppose we'll have to wait.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

The stem cells are from adults. (At least that's what the article says)
[quote name='Lunar'][COLOR="Indigo"][FONT="Book Antiqua"]If God intended for sperms to be made out of female bone marrow, he would have done it already. yeesh.......the end of the world is coming soon......all the signs[/FONT][/COLOR].[/QUOTE]
Well, here comes the attempted unbiased opinion from an atheist: [I]If[/I] there is a God, then he created stem cells just like everything else in this universe in his infinite wisdom... Stem cells are special in that they are able to turn into any other kind of cell that's needed... So, assuming that God created these cells, it's also logical to think that he created them for some reason other than reproduction, in his infinite wisdom... Combatting terrible diseases? Perhaps. And right now, the article only says that the british scientists are trying to get their research approved for heterosexual couples [B]only[/B]. This is a way for stem cell research to combat infertility. (The fact that science is able to turn female stem cells into sperm and male stem cells into eggs is a mere side note, despite what the article conveys)
So in my attempted unbiased atheism, [I]if[/I] there is an all-knowing God, why would he give us the tools to combat problems like this if he didn't want us to?

As far as using it for two men or two women to reproduce: I won't get into that since that's where I become very very biased. :D

[Lunar]

[QUOTE]Well, here comes the attempted unbiased opinion from an atheist: [I]If[/I] there is a God,[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Indigo"][I]If[/I] there is a God. Explain all the wonders of nature.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]This is a way for stem cell research to combat infertility. [/QUOTE]
[COLOR="Indigo"]Who knows? God may have wanted them to be infertile.[/COLOR]

[Rachmaninoff]

[quote name='Gelgoog Pilot;821334]By the way, this really doesn't count as asexuality, there is still fertilization involved.[/QUOTE]I wasn't looking for total accuracy, just a shorter title than the article. =P[quote name='Lunar'][COLOR="Indigo"][I]If[/I'] there is a God. Explain all the wonders of nature.[/COLOR][/quote]It's called science, and we're still learning. Just because we don't understand something fully, it doesn't mean there has to be someone who created it. Falling back on saying "God" created it is a cop out in my opinion.