Sexuality: What's right or wrong?

[The13thMan]

[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]Damn... this thread started up yesterday and it's already got a page and a good portion of the second going. And some of the posts are looooong! My!

Since the two previous posters so lazily decided to not read anybody's posts and just post their own opinions, i will too. But let me just say that i tried. I got near the end of the first page.

I think the question of whether homosexuality is right or wrong is a false dichotomy. Firstly because there are many ways of judging whether it's right or wrong. Secondly, why can't it just be "ok"?

Legally speaking i don't think homosexuality should be illegal. Well... not homosexuality, same sex marriage. I don't think same sex marriage should be illegal. I like the whole "live and let live" motto. Homosexuals getting married doesn't hurt me in any way so why outlaw it? Actually, i think that's a damn good question. And if anybody is so bold to answer that question please don't say anything about the sanctity of marriage. Cuz we all know what i or any other gay-lover will say.

Morally speaking i think it's fine. I just don't see any reason at all that anyone could consider being gay immoral... unless of course you base your morals on a book written a long time ago.

From an evolutionary standpoint homosexuality seems very strange to me. You can't pass on your genes with gay sex. Certainly homosexuality is less popular than heterosexuality... which means you're less likely to fit into a group and therefore survive. Eh... it's just weird.

Personally i'm very glad i'm not gay. I'm sure it would be very difficult for me. And i think from an objective standpoint a female's body is just so much more beautiful than a man's. [/FONT]

[Rachmaninoff]

[quote name='The13thMan'][FONT="Trebuchet MS"]Since the two previous posters so lazily decided to not read anybody's posts and just post their own opinions, i will too. But let me just say that i tried. I got near the end of the first page. [/FONT][/QUOTE]This is probably why you and I end up arguing, you jump to conclusions. =P For clarification's sake, not responding to people's points/posts doesn't automatically equal, "I didn't read them." I read every single post that goes up in this section of OtakuBoards. In this case, I saw no reason and had no desire to go into depth on the subject other than to state what I think of the initial question presented. So please don't go stating I don't read or listen to what people have to say when I actually do.

[chibi-master]

[quote name='The13thMan'][FONT="Trebuchet MS"]Homosexuals getting married doesn't hurt me in any way so why outlaw it? Actually, i think that's a damn good question.[/FONT][/QUOTE]

I agree! In fact, does anyone know why it's illegal in the first place? What's the basis for that law? Hmm? 'Cause I sure don't know!:animestun

[MaskedRider]

So here's the deal. People use the bible to back up their anti-homosexuality arguments. You know what the problem is with that? Most people haven't done their research, they are just repeating what they've heard. Yes, it does state that homosexuality is wrong in the bible, but do you know where? Leviticus. You know what else it says is wrong? Piercings. How many of you have your ear's pierced? What about tattoos? That's in there too. Ooh, how about this? How many of you have eaten food that comes from a pig, like ham or pork? Yeah, that's in there too. So why are you all protesting homosexuality and not pork eating, tattoos, and piercings?

Sex is sex. The acceptable practices vary depending on the time period and location. In this day and age, it's quite common to have sexual intercourse with numerous people, often times just for the point of sex. Love is often not involved. Bi-sexuality seems to be a growing trend among people, especially women. Some people believe this is sort of a fad, but in my opinion its a result of greater acceptance for different sexual preferences in society, and also the fact that sex is often an unemotional act. I have had several female friends who are sexually attracted to women and will have sex with them, but are only interested in relationships with men. It's just the way society is these days. As for me, I'm attracted to women, and like most guys, when a beautiful women walks by, I look at her and think, "I'd hit that." But I seem to have a strange "disorder". I am completely uninterested in having sex with anyone who I'm not in love with. I have been offered several times by beautiful girls, but I pass them up. While some of you may see this as normal or ethical, society tends to lean less away from this, and more towards "**** hot girls".

[Lunar]

[quote name='MaskedRider']So here's the deal. People use the bible to back up their anti-homosexuality arguments. You know what the problem is with that? Most people haven't done their research, they are just repeating what they've heard. Yes, it does state that homosexuality is wrong in the bible, but do you know where? Leviticus. You know what else it says is wrong? Piercings. How many of you have your ear's pierced? What about tattoos? That's in there too. Ooh, how about this? How many of you have eaten food that comes from a pig, like ham or pork? Yeah, that's in there too. So why are you all protesting homosexuality and not pork eating, tattoos, and piercings?[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Indigo"]"Each sin is just as bad as the other......." yeah. I admit that i have my ears pierced and i don't mind a ham sandwhich and i kinda want a tattoo. everything has its consequences. homosexuality(Soddom and Gammorah ending), pork eating; who knows what the pigs eat, they eat everything, even other pigs(trust me, I know, i've had 'em), tattos and piercings, look like crap when you get older. so, yeah. ya know what, now that I think about it, I'd rather not eat ham or get a tattoo. maybe i'll start debating on that *evil laugh*.:animedepr the problem is why are pork eating and tattoos/piercings more accepted than homosexuality if each sin is like the other? [/COLOR]

[Guest Crimson Spider]

It speaks about homosexuality in more than just Leviticus. It is mentioned in the new testament.

Leviticus laws were a lot more than just laws to remain spiritually pure. The laws were several guidelines on how to live your life, accustomed to the culture of that day. Laws against eating pork, for instance, are still very good laws to follow. Bacon is one of the worst types of food that you can consume. Pigs are scavengers that eat almost anything, and they can do this by storing the toxic chemicals ingested into their fat for processing in the future. When you eat meat, you eat the fat contained within, and also all of the poisons.

You CAN eat bacon, just like you can do any other thing. You just have to live with the consequences: Your health will be worse off. You can eat pork every day of your short, cholesterol filled life if you want to.


I do admit that people don't look on the issue too deeply. They have to realize that things aren't illegal or wrong for the sake of being wrong. There are, get this, reasons why it is that something is forbidden.


EDIT: Can't believe I cut this part of the post out :(

O.K. Homosexuality is still discriminated against because, like murder or unwarranted burglary, is still a sin. In particular, it is lust. Eating pork or getting piercings wouldn't be sins themselves, unless you go overboard with it. Then they are gluttony and... well... piercings depend on the cause. It can either be greed, or just straight up pride.

[SunfallE]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"]The never ending debate on sexual orientation as it were. My stance on this is really simple, in my mind that is.

One - I don't really care what someone's sexual preferences are to a certain extent, unless it is infringing on the rights of another. And by infringing I mean taking advantage of a minor or forced contact.

Two - I am not religious and the argument that some text that supposedly came from God ([SIZE="1"]who's existence I question to being with[/SIZE]) says it's wrong doesn't fly by me. I'm more likely to accept current laws than some that were written down thousands of years ago.

Three - Ties in to number two: laws are subject to change. For a very good reason. As a woman, the very idea that we should be adhering to past laws that would include stripping me of the rights I currently have, is in my mind absurd. No deal.

Four - Why would I care that someone else is having sex? Sometimes I think people worry too much over other people's affairs instead of tending to their own.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[The13thMan]

[quote name='Rachmaninoff']This is probably why you and I end up arguing, you jump to conclusions. =P For clarification's sake, not responding to people's points/posts doesn't automatically equal, "I didn't read them." I read every single post that goes up in this section of OtakuBoards. In this case, I saw no reason and had no desire to go into depth on the subject other than to state what I think of the initial question presented. So please don't go stating I don't read or listen to what people have to say when I actually do.[/QUOTE]

[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]You know what? You're absolutely right... this time. ;)

My apologies for making assumptions. Gavin implied it more heavily than you did. But if you both did actually read those posts then my apology extends to both of you. [/FONT]

[quote name='Eclipsed Dreamer'][COLOR="Indigo"][T]he problem is why are pork eating and tattoos/piercings more accepted than homosexuality if each sin is like the other? [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]It's because people are hypocritical and instead of using sound logic to back up their wild discrimination they use things that can't possibly be disproven, like religion. Being gay is wrong, why? Because the bible says so. It's like the ultimate trump card. You can't say the bible's wrong! Not without pissing off the majority of people in our fine fine nation filled with open-minded and loving citizens. Of course, if the bible (or any other religious text) wasn't around people would still find something to justify their crazy (i can't think of the word). [/FONT]

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR="DarkSlateGray"][SIZE="1"]Sins don't mean jack squat to me. Having sex with another man is sin? Oh well, done that. Swearing is a sin? Oh well done that. Stealing is a sin? Oh well, done that too! People sin every day, it's part of who we are. So gay/bi/lesbian people making one extra sin a day shouldn't have any less of a chance of getting to heaven or hell. All sins are equal in the eyes of the lord, are they not? Now for me, I could care less whether people think it's wrong or it's right. If I want to have sex with a man, I?ll have sex with a man.

I don't really feel the need to express anymore of my opinion on the matter. I feel that the best way for someone's sexuality to get excepted is to ignore the argument and live on with my life.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Lunar]

[quote name='Aberinkula'][COLOR="DarkSlateGray"][SIZE="1"]Sins don't mean jack squat to me. Having sex with another man is sin? Oh well, done that. Swearing is a sin? Oh well done that. Stealing is a sin? Oh well, done that too! People sin every day, it's part of who we are. So gay/bi/lesbian people making one extra sin a day shouldn't have any less of a chance of getting to heaven or hell. All sins are equal in the eyes of the lord, are they not? Now for me, I could care less whether people think it's wrong or it's right. If I want to have sex with a man, I?ll have sex with a man.

I don't really feel the need to express anymore of my opinion on the matter. I feel that the best way for someone's sexuality to get excepted is to ignore the argument and live on with my life.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Indigo"]I'm not expecting you to reply, but...........I never said that someone had to be perfect. You don't get to Heaven trying your hardest to not sin. In fact, you could go to hell being perfect because you didn't accept God. You get to Heaven by accepting God and then trying your hardest not to sin because you love him.:catgirl:[/COLOR]

[Guest Crimson Spider]

Close. [i]Lust[/i] is sin. I will cast away another notion here:

Let me ask you a question: Who is sexier? Brad Pitt, or Dog the Bounty Hunter?

As a man, I am very secure in saying that Brad Pitt looks better. Is this a sin to do so? The answer is no, it is not. Simple acknowledgment or admiration isn't the corruption of something pure for personal gain at all. You can say that someone is beautiful, but guess what? Sunsets are beautiful, too. So is the ocean.

In that same manner, you can say another member looks sexy without their being any sin or homosexuality involved at all. To go to the level of the actual act, that requires the lust after the traits.



And now, to Aberinkula's statements: It is true that we sin everyday. That, however, is no reason to encourage sin. It is a problem that we must all work on.

Now, in regards to the Kingdom of God, it is not the amount of sin that prevents us from getting into the Kingdom, for sin is what kills our spirit regardless of the amount. What is important, however, is whether or not you are going to accept that you are a sinner, and admit that Christ sacrificed himself to wash you clean of your sins.

This is where we get into problems. Sex has a very powerful hold over people. The homosexual (from the ones I've seen) are apt to reject any spiritual guidance in favor of a particular definition regarding bodily needs. So, they will reject salvation in favor of sexual satisfaction.

This isn't a problem that is particular to any one group of people, for any particular purpose. The Homosexual was chosen by society to be the embodiment of freedom of preference, freedom from persecution, overcoming adversity, and personal pride.

So, it has become a hotbed issue. It isn't actually the sexual preferences, but what they represent that is being argued. It is really about authority, responsibility, and control.

[Gavin]

[quote name='The13thMan'][FONT="Trebuchet MS"]My apologies for making assumptions. Gavin implied it more heavily than you did. But if you both did actually read those posts then my apology extends to both of you. [/FONT][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]I imagine I did imply it more heavily than Rach did, admittedly I only glanced through posts after about the first five or six when it became apparent that this wasn't going to be a debate as much as one side firing evidence at the other until everyone just walks away.[/SIZE]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=#9933ff]I haven't posted back since the first page. But I'll just say this:

After years of reading varying debates of this sort on here I've learned one thing. We can continue to talk all we want we aren't going to change anyone's opinions over the internet. The important thing is that we can respect eachother's opinions and not start yelling that I'm right and you're wrong. Because we're all intelligent people on here. And what fun us a debate if everyone agrees with everyone else?

And now I'm going to go take a nap so I can be ready for work.[/color]

[Vicky]

[size=1]There's one particular post I'd really love to tear a part but I'll leave it because the sheer attitude of it is rather irritating in itself. Nevermind.

From the majority of these arguments even though I'm gay I'd have no problem getting into heaven because I don't have sex with girls (excluding previous relation). Why not? Because sex is [i]boring[/i].

All the arguments about sex being this immensively powerful thing and the definition of a relationship is rather farfetched. Sex is a physical act in my opinion that's pointless and plain boring - I'm sure it's different if you're married, but oh well. I don't see it changing if you're in love either... it's still the same act only there's an emotional bond there; that bond will always be there whether you had sex or not.

I'm sure other people enjoy it but I really don't. I wouldn't make any snide comments about my partners or my own ability, either, because for one that wouldn't matter and for two I know exactly what I'm doing. People are too attached to the physical and I'm quite indifferent to the thought of sleeping with a man or a woman - given the choice, I wouldn't sleep with a man.

So physically, I'm attracted to women (they're fit!) but I can say a man is pretty or handsome without being attracted to him. I could and would kiss a man - maybe even have sex with him - but the emotional attachment that's there with girls wouldn't be presence. That's why sex doesn't matter to me at all; if the attachment is already there I don't need the physical. That, and, it's really, really [i]boring[/i].[/size]

[Gelgoog Pilot]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Vicky
And since I know someone will bring this up, YES, I KNOW that the bible says being bi, lesbian or gay is wrong. My rebutle is, DO YOUR OWN D*** THINKING AND STOP LETTING THE BIBLE DO IT FOR YOU!!![/QUOTE]

Yeah, it is good to just throw it out there since you're right some one will use the Bible as a reason to hate others ( An oxymoron?).

There isn't some verse in the Bible that flatly states that it is wrong to lay with another of your sex. There are texts and verses that may be interpreted to imply it. That is where it stands really, interpretation. Personally I think people are using Christianity and the Bible as a blanket excuse for hating homosexuals. Even if we write off the 'references' from the Bible, there is still other beliefs and creeds of Christianity that normally should teach love and not hate.

In the end I too think of the Bible as a mere guide or a manual on how to practice Christianity. It was regrettably written by men, in an age and area of the world that thoughts were FAR different from what we have here today. We can't let this script, as holy as it may be, dictate how we should treat our fellow men and women; some who actually practice the very same religion as those who hate them.

I'm really sorry that for the most part this discussion turned into a religious one, I would have loved to hear more of a standpoint from a non-religious point of view. I mean, yes I can see how some may think it is wrong, or just strange and unnatural, but I say, why bother with what makes others happy? Especially when that thing isn't harmful and even invokes love.

I don't know, religion is on the same level with "the dog ate my homework". An excuse to act out at someone for poor reasons. Worst of all is that these religions continue to allow followers to act is such an unchristian way. Ugh, I'm sorry for this post, I just lost my love for organized religion long ago.

Now, onto my next statement, Vicky, wow. That's all I can say. I agree with you on some points but others I'm simply stupefied. You ARE right about sex, it is boring, sex is simply that physical act. However I hope you don't find making love as boring. I believe they are two different actions. They are still technically the same act, but I believe that the latter is far more powerful and far more entertaining. I am going to prevent myself as you asked from saying anything about your performance or your partner's performance. I also think that it isn't a variable, at least with making love. I used to share a similar belief that it was the same thing only with someone you'd like to see more than once, I however had that forced out of my head. That emotional tie should be what brings that physical act to life!

Whether it is a man or woman shouldn't matter at all. If you have that emotional attachment, run with it. I have been with both a man and a woman. I have had strong feelings for both a man and a woman. I let shame get in the way of one of those relationships. I wasn't strong enough to take the slings and arrows at the time. I have a lot of regret about that day, simply because i love a good friend if nothing else.

I don't know, Maybe your feelings did not run as deep as you thought? I have had a couple similar experiences, thought I felt so much for them, then when the time came, that feeling was lost in bed. Just a thought, I don't want you to think I'm accusing you of not having ever felt love or strong feelings, merely a suggestion.

Understand that I think it amazing that you can look past all of the physical and want to be with them purely for the chance to stay at their side. I know that I cannot live off only the emotional and metal connections. To me there are both a part of what makes a relationship work. I wish that you find a like mind Vicky.

[Lunar]

[quote name='Gelgoog Pilot']Yeah, it is good to just throw it out there since you're right some one will use the Bible as a reason to hate others ( An oxymoron?).

There isn't some verse in the Bible that flatly states that it is wrong to lay with another of your sex. There are texts and verses that may be interpreted to imply it. That is where it stands really, interpretation. Personally I think people are using Christianity and the Bible as a blanket excuse for hating homosexuals. Even if we write off the 'references' from the Bible, there is still other beliefs and creeds of Christianity that normally should teach love and not hate.
[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Indigo"]Hold up there. Not all people use the Bible as an excuse to hate homosexuals. Must I again mention that I have a friend of whom I still stay in contact with(although i've moved) who is in fact bisexual. I don't agree with her way of life, but I still love her as if she were one of my heterosexual friends. Being bi is a sin, but heterosexuals sin just as much and as said before, each sin is like the other. If you want something that doesn't deal with relegion, the main reason for sex is to reproduce, right? It is needed for a man and woman to reproduce, that's why they have the necessary organs. So why can't a man and a man reproduce or a woman and a woman reproduce? It's not meant to be. It's not natural.(btw, I think chibi said to do your own thinking and not let the Bible do it for you,not Vicky)

P.S. Unfortunately, I happen to see debating as fun. [/COLOR]

[Allamorph]

[quote name='Eclipsed Dreamer][COLOR="Indigo"']Hold up there. Not all people use the Bible as an excuse to hate homosexuals. [/COLOR][/quote]
[FONT=Arial]And the people who do are probably not Christians.

"Hate the sin, love the sinner." Big, big detail.

I mean heck, I've got a friend who's dying of a brain tumor right now, and he's gay. I'm still skipping half my classes tomorrow to see him.

[B]Edit:[/B]
[QUOTE=Gelgoog Pilot][QUOTE]Originally posted by Vicky
And since I know someone will bring this up, YES, I KNOW that the bible says being bi, lesbian or gay is wrong. My rebutle is, DO YOUR OWN D*** THINKING AND STOP LETTING THE BIBLE DO IT FOR YOU!!![/QUOTE]
Yeah, it is good to just throw it out there since you're right some one will use the Bible as a reason to hate others ( An oxymoron?).[/QUOTE]
Uhh. Before you go around being all sarcastic and lovely like that, make sure you have the right quote. [COLOR=DarkRed]Vicky[/COLOR] didn't say that. That one belongs to [COLOR=DarkRed]chibi-master[/COLOR], the opening poster for this thread. And now you have egg all over your face. (^_^)

So yeah, it'd probably be a good idea for everyone to double-check their little jabs before going off all half-cocked.[/FONT]

[Vicky]

[quote name='Gelgoog Pilot']


Now, onto my next statement, Vicky, wow. That's all I can say. I agree with you on some points but others I'm simply stupefied. You ARE right about sex, it is boring, sex is simply that physical act. However I hope you don't find making love as boring. I believe they are two different actions. They are still technically the same act, but I believe that the latter is far more powerful and far more entertaining. I am going to prevent myself as you asked from saying anything about your performance or your partner's performance. I also think that it isn't a variable, at least with making love. I used to share a similar belief that it was the same thing only with someone you'd like to see more than once, I however had that forced out of my head. That emotional tie should be what brings that physical act to life!

Whether it is a man or woman shouldn't matter at all. If you have that emotional attachment, run with it. I have been with both a man and a woman. I have had strong feelings for both a man and a woman. I let shame get in the way of one of those relationships. I wasn't strong enough to take the slings and arrows at the time. I have a lot of regret about that day, simply because i love a good friend if nothing else.

I don't know, Maybe your feelings did not run as deep as you thought? I have had a couple similar experiences, thought I felt so much for them, then when the time came, that feeling was lost in bed. Just a thought, I don't want you to think I'm accusing you of not having ever felt love or strong feelings, merely a suggestion.

Understand that I think it amazing that you can look past all of the physical and want to be with them purely for the chance to stay at their side. I know that I cannot live off only the emotional and metal connections. To me there are both a part of what makes a relationship work. I wish that you find a like mind Vicky.[/QUOTE]

[size=1]Yeah, I pretty much get what you're saying here.

My feelings do run quite deep, you see, and I know this because I've been with quite a few people and I can compare. It was probably only my recent girlfriend and another person (whom I didn't go out with) I felt this strongly for and I think the fact that I was attracted to them - and their personality - for so long implies something incredibly deep. It's like a connection with them that I have with no one else, because I have friends I've known longer and know more about, but there's something different with the people I like. I don't believe too much in love, but it's the closest thing I've ever known to it, so I assume it's probably the closest thing to my heart (which is a hard place to get haha).

The girl I'm with now I have quite strong feelings for. For the most part I'm incredibly cold to the point I don't even like my parents touching or hugging me, and surely I love them? I'll let her though, and I reckon I probably do love er. I wouldn't mind spending the rest of my life with her at all. So it isn't really sex because it's rather serious and means an awful lot, to her more than me, and it would count as love making. Still, I would much rather read a book with her sat beside me than do any of that. It's simply rather boring. The first time might have been pretty awesome, but sooner or later it becomes too... physical. I just don't like the physical at all, even with the emotional attachment there; I just want the emotion.

I do pretty much acknowledge that if you love someone the whole sexual thing becomes a lot more intense and all of that. But it just seems a little too physical for me - I'm not really into that sort of thing.

That's why I think love isn't between just a man and a woman, because I don't think love is purely just physical - on the contrary, I think it's purely emotional that simply enhances the physical.

(By the way, the quote wasn't me. I don't get too angry about people hiding behind the bible when it comes to this issue because it's common place =p )[/size]

[B]EDIT:[/B] Going in big size because this is rather important. Since the scriptures this law is based off was written in a time when Judaism was one of the only monotheistic religion surrounded by Pagans most of the laws are an attack against Paganism. If you don't believe me, allow me time to bring up the evidence. You see, the Greeks, Roman, Babylonians and most of the Empires that threw the Jews around in Israel had very little restrictions aganist homosexuality in their religions. The Jews wanted to be set a part and saw the Pagan as impure because of all the **** the Pagans had put them through - therefore, much of these laws are [i]against[/i] Pagans and may not (or could have been - maybe god hated the Pagans too) have been directly given to Moses from god as just rules by him - they were a fight against the Pagans.

Or at least, that seems quite logical and far more profound than the simple idea that came out of nowhere to pull judgement on the homosexual lifestyle.

I'm sure... was it Deus Dog...? could back me up here. Where are you from? You seem to be doing the same AS course (or did) in Theology as I am =p.

[Guest Crimson Spider]

You know, I have heard so many conspiracies about the Bible it borderlines ridiculous. I have heard that Bible is strictly modeled after a form of Egyptian Monotheism, that it was designed by a select few Jews to control the masses after they fled from Egypt, that the Bible was originally a take on one of the older Pagan religions in the area that was changed in medieval times when they decided to remove Lilith for Eve to make women submissive, that the Bible had hell edited into it so the Catholic Church could make money, that Satan didn't exist, that Jesus was actually Satan deceiving the masses, that Jesus had a wife and children, that the entire Bible was written and edited by a bunch of drunks who wanted power, that Christianity is actually tailor made by extra terrestrials to lead us into the sky, that the Bible has a secret code implanted into its texts, that the Catholic Church confiscated various troublesome articles and keeps them locked away in a safe somewhere, and now that the Jewish Laws were designed as anti-pagan rules due to the mistreatment from the local empires.

When will it end? It is all white noise now. Anyway, the statement requires an [i]a priori[/i] rejection of any divinity in the texts anyway, so you might as well just say that the Bible shouldn't rule your life, and end it there. The entire thing, IMO, is a very big [i]ad hominem[/i] fallacy.




Now, to keep things on-topic, I very recently came into a website that I had not known existed. It is a very interesting website. Anyway, upon this website, I read several articles like

[url]http://www.narth.com/docs/hom101.html[/url]

that have some interesting ideas presented. Most importantly, that homosexual tendencies are driven in part by the lack of personal association with parents and other members of the same gender at younger ages, causing a distorted self identity that craves attention from the same sex. Originally an emotional need that eventually manifests itself in sex.

Something that really interested me was this:

[url]http://www.narth.com/docs/paradox.html[/url]

Which is really the first time I have ever seen a therapy procedure described. I was always aiming for manual mental redefinition, but I think I may have been mistaken in that aspect. Self-discovery and analyzing, at least according to this article, seems to be the key to analyzing sexually oriented psyche.

[Gelgoog Pilot]

I have never heard the theory of the Bible as a variant of an Egyptian religious sect. I do however think it likely or at least possible. The way Christianity and more specifically Catholicism were run included tying in other dominant religion's ideas. The church needed a way to ease others into a new religion, not only that but with so many new followers different influences began to show in the overall Christian religion. I have taken a theology and philosophy class at my college and these two classes touched on this. Call it a personal interest of mine. A lot of what Vicky said is found to be likely, obviously not proven since, who would confess to such things?

Also, I'm sorry about my miss quote, apparently that quote isn't in this thread at all now :P. I never really intended to include everyone, I in fact said people, ambiguous yes, but I thought most of us would be able to tell my meaning. No, some people just plain hate homosexuals, whether it be a bad personal experience, the way they were raised, or maybe hidden like feelings, I don't know. It is sad however, that religion gets such a bad wrap from followers totting "God hates you" signs. I wonder time and again how the church can back them or allow them to continue.

[Lunar]

[QUOTE]
[B][I]Originally Posted by Crimson Spider[/I][/B]
Most importantly, that homosexual tendencies are driven in part by the lack of personal association with parents and other members of the same gender at younger ages, causing a distorted self identity that craves attention from the same sex. Originally an emotional need that eventually manifests itself in sex.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Indigo"]:o I forgot about that part. Hm, homosexuality when broken down is emotional. Just like when a girl is sexually molested by her father and then grows up to like women. She doesn't trust men of any kind, her father scarred her for life. To Gelgoog Pilot: sadly, today, there are many Christians who are hyprocrites. These are the people totting "God hates you signs" while true Christians are not. [/COLOR]

[Guest Crimson Spider]

At some point it is. Both men and women have emotional and physical desires. Very complicated how things actually behave, with physical manifesting as emotional and emotional expressing as physical. In my generalizations, it makes things seem like they are simple when it really isn't.


Something I am also a bit annoyed over is the denomination game. Somewhere I heard that there was 20,000 denominations of Christianity. To this, I say: have a looser definition.

I consider most Christians simply as "Christians" and any disagreement between the different denominations are usually minor (the respect to the trinity, the nature of hell, ect). With my definition, there are really only three groups: Mormon, Catholic, and the others, due to what is accepted as scripture in each of the Churches. They have different Bibles, basically.

Those people who go around waving signs, do not think of them as Christians. Think of them as "individuals".

[Lunar]

[quote name='Crimson Spider']
Those people who go around waving signs, do not think of them as Christians. Think of them as "individuals".[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Indigo"]So those individuals are[I] not [/I]Christians?:confused:[/COLOR]

[Guest Crimson Spider]

I don't know. Are criminals "blacks"?

Same system here.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Eclipsed Dreamer'][COLOR="Indigo"]So those individuals are[I] not [/I]Christians?:confused:[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[color=#9933ff]No, they're a different sect of Christianity- like maybe a fringe religion. Something to that effect.

For example: Technically I'm a Christian, but I refer to myself as a Catholic- which is a branch of Christianity. I don't believe in everything that the church teaches (Waiting for the lightening to strike me down any day) but I'm still considered Catholic because every Sunday I drag myself out of my nice comfy bed to go hear a sermon and take communion and try to keep my daughter from running down the aisle for an hour. But I believe that gay marriage should be legalized and I believe in Birth Control (excuse me I have to go build a shrine to the pill)

On the opposite side of the coin is my grandma Donnelly. She marched in Washington DC for pro-life, once picketed a Planned Parenthood, was against birth control (yeah... uh I never got to ask why exactly she was opposed to abortions [I]and[/I] birth control) and would nearly faint if someone said 'damn'. God rest her soul, but I never saw eye to eye with her, but she was still a Christian.

I guess you have to look at it this way: Don't dislike the religion dislike the person practicing the religion.

I just have to add that I was taught that the Bible wasn't written to be taken literally letter for letter word for word. It's meant to be interpretted and for people to ask questions about it. There's always room for change.[/color]