Who Will Win the Presidential Election?

[Mr. Blonde]

[quote name='Clurr'][FONT="Arial"]BUT if I could vote, I would not vote for McCain. Everyone I've spoken to sees too much of Bush in his policies. I don't foresee that being good for the country. As I can't grasp the potential outcomes of either candidates' separate policies, I'm extremely hesitant to make a decision at all.

I don't want to say I'm for Obama just because people I respect and admire are fully confident in him, or because I think Palin is the most bizarre, inappropriate choice for Vice President possible, or because I hate how smug and eager to interrupt McCain was last night, or because a sizeable portion of his base is calling for Obama's death and are still considered patriotic and loyal.
[/FONT][/QUOTE]

While I don't agree that McCain and Bush share many similiarities, the mud slinging coming out of the McCain campaign is quite disturbing. Some where along the line McCain lost what made him likeable. He lost that Mavericky goodness that people liked in 2000. He's running at a difficult time; when Republican is practically a dirty word. He's tried to go extreme right, that hasn't worked. He's tried to go more liberal and advertise himself as a change candidate, that hasn't worked. I blame his Republican advisors who since 2000 have been trying to prep him for this race and in doing so have destroyed the McCain I used to respect.

[quote name='Raiha'][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Death threats against Obama? This is new. I know that both parties will always have leaping screaming loonies on both ends of the spectrum, but if you can provide concrete evidence to that point I'd be interested in seeing it.
[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

I'm surprised you didn't hear about this. Things are getting vicious.

[url]http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/obama-death-threat-at-mccain-rally-sparks-probe/1330479.aspx[/url]

[Raiha]

[quote name='Katakidoushi']I'm surprised you didn't hear about this. Things are getting vicious.

[url]http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/obama-death-threat-at-mccain-rally-sparks-probe/1330479.aspx[/url][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Wait, I did hear about this but I also heard just today that the probe went nowhere because there was nothing to be found. Simultaneously I've heard about death threats against Palin, which some weird inner sexist part of me views as more appalling than the assassination threat against a man.

I don't remember the exact source, which is a shame, but I'm pretty sure that there was nothing to this death threat and also pretty sure that Palin and McCain didn't go: "THAT'S MY BOY!" Then again, they're only responsible for saying what they say, not what their base does. If they didn't endorse then plan and don't in fact endorse the death of the opponent then hey. Crazies are everywhere.

That and I'm pretty sure the Obama campaign hasn't been perfectly squeaky clean either. The things said about Palin were blown so far out of proportion, or put entirely out of whack are just disturbing and a little confusing. Why the demented howling from the far left? She's just a woman politician, not a God. I'm not accusing Obama himself, but his campaign workers haven't all been shining examples of goodness and honor.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Claire]

[FONT="Arial"]The death threats have been covered, but I found the part of last night's debate I was referring to: [U][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk3nkaGXcFw[/url][/U]

But like I said, even if I could vote I wouldn't let this or anything else I mentioned affect my decision. It's just what makes me favor Obama without knowing either candidates' plans.
[/FONT]

[Boo]

[quote name='Katakidoushi']So you believed in the polls at the top of this page but now you've lost faith in them?[/QUOTE][size=1]+10 for missing constant critical tone towards polls.


That aside, I just have to post this for fun:
[IMG]http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/9145/1zx6tttzy3.gif[/IMG][/size]

[Mr. Blonde]

[quote name='Katakidoushi']Post debate polls:

CNN:
Obama:58%
McCain:31%

Politico:
Obama: 49%
McCain: 46%

CBS:
Obama:53%
McCain:22%

Election Polls:

Gallup:
Obama: 49%
McCain:43%

NBC News/Wall Street Journal:
Obama 49%
McCain:43%

And the one I enjoy most of all...

Fox News:
Obama 45%
McCain: 39%

[/QUOTE]

I would like to make something clear here by quoting myself. I have divided the polls I listed into two categories that may have been misconstrued. The "post debate" polls were polls on the winner of the 3rd debate and the "election" polls are the polls with the current standing of the candidates in the overal election. That is why the CNN and CBS numbers seem extreme.

[eleanor]

[quote name='Clurr'][FONT="Arial"]
I hate how smug and eager to interrupt McCain was last night, or because a sizeable portion of his base is calling for Obama's death and are still considered patriotic and loyal.
[/FONT][/QUOTE]

[font=trebuchet ms] LOL. A bunch of people on my residence hall and I were watching the debate in our advisor's room, and as soon as McCain said that bit about his rally-attenders everyone was just like "oh my god/ooooh/damn!"

McCain just failed that debate so badly. I mean, it wasn't even a matter of what his beliefs were, but he could not handle that form of debate and I felt embarrassed for him. He's a hater. ha[/font]

[Allamorph]

[quote name='Lunox][font=trebuchet ms']McCain just failed that debate so badly. I mean, it wasn't even a matter of what his beliefs were, but he could not handle that form of debate and I felt embarrassed for him. He's a hater. ha[/font][/quote]
[FONT=Arial]And didn't the GOP can his *** back in 2000? In favor of Bush no less?

The party I attempt to identify with has gone completely bonko. :p

I tell you what. I don't want to vote for either of 'em. We got bupkus this year. Mario 2008. :p[/FONT]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR="Indigo"][FONT="Arial"][quote name='Raiha;823898][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"][i]I'm sorry to say that I don't think I was trolling. And I believe the evidence supports me when I say that polls consistently over sample those of a more liberal persuasion. It'd be my opinion and right to state that the polls numbers are being cooked by the people putting them out there.[/i][/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]And I'm sorry to say, I think you were. Implying indirectly (without some form of actual proof) that the only reason liberals are being polled more and thus giving the appearance that they are in the lead is because they don't work or otherwise have a life. [quote name='Boo'][size=1']I think we read the post differently, because I couldn't find the trolling.[/size][/quote]Read it again or just read what I posted here. Saying polls have a margin for error is one thing, that's expected, but to imply it's only because people who are liberal are somehow lazy... is trolling.

That would be the same as me saying she missed another option as to why Republicans don't get polled properly...

C: Too lazy to get off their butts to answer the phones since they're doing this:

[CENTER][IMG]http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png[/IMG][/CENTER]
Though it should say they 'think' someone is wrong. =P[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Doublehex]

[quote name='Allamorph'][FONT=Arial]And didn't the GOP can his *** back in 2000? In favor of Bush no less?

The party I attempt to identify with has gone completely bonko. :p

I tell you what. I don't want to vote for either of 'em. We got bupkus this year. Mario 2008. :p[/FONT][/QUOTE]

I'm in the same boat as you are. I don't like either of them. That is why I am putting down Ron Paul on my vote ticket. Yes, I know he won't win. But it is the ethics of the thing. I'm not going to vote for someone I do not think is the right choice to be the biggest representative of our country.

[eleanor]

[font=trebuchet ms] @ Matt: Can I ask what state you live in?[/font]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Raiha'][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Ah but remember, polls consistently oversample [B]Democrats and otherwise unoccupied people that still pick up land line phones. Most Republicans never get polled properly because a: they're all busy working and b: Hence they aren't home to pick up the phone anyway.[/B] Well it's the same point but it's hard to point out that inconvenient fact when discussing polls.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[color=#9933ff](I'll probably regret this after I've had some sleep and see a reply tomorrow, but right now I'm insulted.)

Yeah, that's [I]exactly[/I] what my parents, my brother and I are doing all day and night not working. Yes, Raiha, I spend 8 hours a day making 9.25$ an hour to support my 4 year old and taking over time when I can get it taking care of the elderly because [B][I]I DON'T WORK[/I][/B]. Here's a napkin to wipe off the sarcasm.

The polls couldn't be different because maybe a Republican works a regular nine to five and a Democrat either works a graveyard shift (11-7) or an evening shift and just happens to be home at that time. No, it couldn't be anything that logical, it has to be because Republicans work and Democrats don't. Come to think of it, Obama must be a Republican in disquise because he's [I]working[/I] to become president.

Okay sarcasm and rant aside I'm voting for Obama. I think McCain's a nice guy and everything and I respect the fact that he fought for our country, but that really shouldn't be the sole deciding factor in who to vote for. I also don't try to only vote for one party. But I tend to lean more towards the Democratic party because they seem to have a lot more of my beliefs than the Republican party. Also I've become an adult these past 8 years and a parent in the past 4 and it scares the crap out of me right now to think of bringing a child up in this country and this world the way it is right now. The bad economy and poor foriegn policies and poor foreign relations all stem from an 8 year Republican administration.

Also Obama has a better plan for health care and with my ex supposedly getting out of the Army this June I really have to wonder about health care.[/color]

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]If I were American, I'd [i]so[/i] vote for Mario. Just think, you'd then have no need for a military - just send Mario out to catch bin Laden personally! I can just imagine him swinging Obama by the beard...

Ahem, anyway.

I personally think it's very hard to tell who will win. The polls suggest Obama will win, but I also think a [i]lot[/i] of people could go to the polls simply to stop a black man getting into the White House. While I think racism is mostly gone, I also think in some areas it's still alive and well. I wouldn't be surprised to see it dominate the thoughts of some voters.

Also polls don't account for undecideds who make up their mind on voting day. Some people go into that booth intending to vote for one candidate and then they think "Nah, maybe that's too much of a risk". All of those factors play in.

As for who I'd vote for? I really don't know. I have not looked at a comprehensive comparison of their policies.

I've been annoyed at the media-generated Obamessiah phenomenon, but I do think that underneath it all, Obama is a genuinely good candidate. I also think that despite the painfully ignorant swipes at McCain's age, he is also a strong candidate.

Does anyone know of a really clear and unbiased link that compares the candidates' positions on each major issue? Remember, I want something unbaised - no partisanship. Just a clear listing of how each compares. Then maybe I'll tell you who I'd vote for.[/font]

[eleanor]

[quote name='James'][font=franklin gothic medium]
Does anyone know of a really clear and unbiased link that compares the candidates' positions on each major issue? Remember, I want something unbaised - no partisanship. Just a clear listing of how each compares. Then maybe I'll tell you who I'd vote for.[/font][/QUOTE]

[font=trebuchet ms][url]http://www.foxnews.com/[/url]

:D[/font]

[James]

[quote name='Lunox'][font=trebuchet ms][url]http://www.foxnews.com/[/url]

:D[/font][/QUOTE]

[font=franklin gothic medium]>_>;;

[i]Thanks[/i], Lunox.

I might as well just go and bury my head in the sand now. :animeknow[/font]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Lunox'][font=trebuchet ms][url]http://www.foxnews.com/[/url]

:D[/font][/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f272/Chibi_horsewoman/Funny%20pictures/postapproval.jpg[/IMG]

[color=#9933ff]It's 1:30AM and I should be asleep- I couldn't resist.

James, I guess you could always check to see if some of the local papers in the states have bi-partisan polls. Of course I watch CNN and mostly my local news- I'm never around a TV long enough to watch anything though except for Desperate Housewives or Little Bill[/color]

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]Oh, I'm not really looking for polls as such. I'm looking for a list of subjects and a comparison of each candidate's view on that subject. I'm sure these exist but I'm not sure which is the best one to go with (since any comparison written by either side is going to be inherently weighted to that side).[/font]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='James'][font=franklin gothic medium]Oh, I'm not really looking for polls as such. I'm looking for a list of subjects and a comparison of each candidate's view on that subject. I'm sure these exist but I'm not sure which is the best one to go with (since any comparison written by either side is going to be inherently weighted to that side).[/font][/QUOTE]


[color=#9933ff]This is the best I can do at nearly 2AM

[URL="http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage"]Rochester Democrat and Chronical[/URL]

I really don't know why Democrat is in our paper's name. We used to have an evening paper at one point called the Times Union, but that went the way of the tape deck[/color]

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]This is more what I was looking for:

[url]http://obama-mccain.info/index-obama-mccain.php[/url]

I'll have a read up on that later and tell you what I think. Haha.[/font]

[Nathan]

[FONT="Arial"][quote name='Raiha;823874][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Ah but remember, polls consistently oversample Democrats and otherwise unoccupied people that still pick up land line phones. Most Republicans never get polled properly because a: they're all busy working and b: Hence they aren't home to pick up the phone anyway. Well it's the same point but it's hard to point out that inconvenient fact when discussing polls.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]Sounds like Republicans need to be less conservative and get with the times. You know, by getting a cell phone so they can answer calls on the job like most working Democrats do. :D[QUOTE=James'][font=franklin gothic medium]This is more what I was looking for:

[url]http://obama-mccain.info/index-obama-mccain.php[/url]

I'll have a read up on that later and tell you what I think. Haha.[/font][/QUOTE]Another good site for seeing where they stand in addition to how they have voted on past issues can be found here:

[URL="http://www.ontheissues.org/default.htm"][U]On The Issues[/U][/URL]

Just click on the name of the person you want to check out.

Now putting the title of the thread aside and moving to the edit (who will you vote for) I will be voting for Obama. I may be in a state that is approximately 70% Republican, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm a Democrat and just about always vote for that party.

It's pretty rare for me to vote otherwise since most of the time, I don't agree with the direction Republicans wish to take our country. There are exceptions of course, but they tend to be few and far between. [/FONT]

[Guest Crimson Spider]

Personally, I will be voting for McCain, because he is the lesser of two evils on the issues. I'm not a big fan of either candidate. The conservatives don't get decent representation in this election. No, Palin doesn't somehow "Make up" for McCains stances.

*sigh*. Looks like I will have to propose a bill on family values myself. Though that will take forever. Anyway...


As for who will win the election, I really don't know. Something that I have learned by watching elections every year is that it is not over until it is over. Before then, anything can happen. People will change their votes as they are casting them, people who want to vote won't, and people who don't want to vote will.


The greatest problem with democracy: being ruled by the people means to be ruled by panicky, ignorant masses.

[TheShinje]

I would vote for Obama. I'm usually conservative and Republican leaning, but while McCain is a decent candidate who can hold his own, Obama's message is more inspiring. Perhaps I've been worn down over the last 8 years, but I feel that the Republican have had a good go, and it's time for change.

Oh, and Democrat administrations seem to make more progress with New Zealand interests, and it can't hurt our free trade goals.

[James]

[quote name='Sabre']
Oh, and Democrat administrations seem to make more progress with New Zealand interests, and it can't hurt our free trade goals.[/QUOTE]

[font=franklin gothic medium]Barack Obama is opposed to free trade, just so you know.

The site I linked to before has clear bullet point lists of what the candidates stand for on each issue. I've read a bit of it, but I still have to finish. I figure I should tick a box on one side for each issue and then add them up to see who I support. That way it's got nothing to do with personality/image/etc and everything to do with the issues.

And as a general aside, maybe it's true that the problem with democracy is that the country is actually run by the "ignorant masses". I'm therefore glad that someone who has an extremely narrow definition of "family values" is in no position to legislate.[/font]

[Mr. Blonde]

[quote name='James'][font=franklin gothic medium]
Does anyone know of a really clear and unbiased link that compares the candidates' positions on each major issue? Remember, I want something unbaised - no partisanship. Just a clear listing of how each compares. Then maybe I'll tell you who I'd vote for.[/font][/QUOTE]

[url]www.taxpolicycenter.org[/url]

If you're looking for the hard numbers and the economic ramifications of the candidates' plans I'd check the Tax Policy Center out.

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman'][color=#9933ff] Here's a napkin to wipe off the sarcasm.[/color][/QUOTE]

I may just have to put this in my signature.

Classic.

[Rachmaninoff]

I don't know who will win, no matter what the polls say, but I already decided on voting for Obama long before the final debates. It was a matter of which one's stances on the issues matched what I wanted to see the most. McCain definitely doesn't even come close to what I want to see.

[Allamorph]

[quote name='Rachmaninoff']I don't know who will win, no matter what the polls say, but I already decided on voting for Obama long before the final debates. It was a matter of which one's stances on the issues matched what I wanted to see the most. McCain definitely doesn't even come close to what I want to see.[/quote]
[FONT=Arial]But there's the thing?I can barely tell a difference between [I]either[/I] of them. As far as I've been able to discern, the only clear difference of stances they seem to have are what the media says they differ on, since I haven't heard either candidate actually come out and make a clear declaration that wasn't a deliberate sound bite. (Could someone clear me up on this "sound bite" thing? I'm never sure I'm saying it right.)

I will confess that I haven't heard much of anything at all, so my opinion could very well be simple ignorance. But even if all I have left to go one is gut instinct, then I [I]still[/I] distrust both men. There's something in their eyes and behind their faces that just feels . . . [I]wrong[/I].[/FONT]