Who Will Win the Presidential Election?

[Rachmaninoff]

[quote name='Allamorph'][FONT=Arial]But there's the thing?I can barely tell a difference between [I]either[/I] of them. As far as I've been able to discern, the only clear difference of stances they seem to have are what the media says they differ on, since I haven't heard either candidate actually come out and make a clear declaration that wasn't a deliberate sound bite. (Could someone clear me up on this "sound bite" thing? I'm never sure I'm saying it right.)

I will confess that I haven't heard much of anything at all, so my opinion could very well be simple ignorance. But even if all I have left to go one is gut instinct, then I [I]still[/I] distrust both men. There's something in their eyes and behind their faces that just feels . . . [I]wrong[/I].[/FONT][/QUOTE]I go by stances as well as past voting history to help me decide and there are definitely clear differences between the two candidates. I?ll start with how they?ve voted in the past.

[U]McCain:[/U]
Voted NO on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. [SIZE="1"](I disagree with the stance of not educating teens on the consequences of having sex[/SIZE])
Voted YES on $75M for abstinence education. ([SIZE="1"]Again, I think abstinence education is a joke, it needs to be comprehensive[/SIZE])
Voted YES on approving a nuclear waste repository. [SIZE="1"](No, as one of the states where they want to store this stuff, definitely NO[/SIZE])
Voted YES on allowing some lobbyist gifts to Congress. ([SIZE="1"]Like we need more of that kind of favors being passed around[/SIZE])
Voted NO on banning more types of Congressional gifts. ([SIZE="1"]No, it [I]should[/I] be banned[/SIZE])
Voted NO on background checks at gun shows. ([SIZE="1"]lolwut?!?[/SIZE])
Voted YES on loosening license & background checks at gun shows. ([SIZE="1"]being at a gun show shouldn?t take precedent over a person requiring a background check, that?s just stupid[/SIZE])
Voted NO on raising the minimum wage to $7.25 rather than $6.25. [SIZE="1"](he did actually vote for it later, but initially he opposed it[/SIZE])

[U]Obama:[/U]
Voted YES on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. ([SIZE="1"]I?ve said it before, more comprehensive education is what I think would work best[/SIZE])
Voted NO on allowing some lobbyist gifts to Congress. ([SIZE="1"]Another thing I agree with, we don?t need that kind of stuff going on[/SIZE])
Voted YES on raising the minimum wage to $7.25 rather than $6.25. ([SIZE="1"]That?s an obvious one right there[/SIZE])

[U]McCain:[/U] Statements I don?t agree with.
Americans are innocent victims of Wall Street greed. [SIZE="1"](in reference to the bailout, sorry, but many Americans living beyond their means are just as guilty as Wall Street[/SIZE])
McCain wants to make the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 permanent. ([SIZE="1"]That would be great[I] if [/I]it didn?t favor people who are rich[/SIZE])

[U]Obama:[/U] Statements
Wants to allow the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 to expire as scheduled for Americans earning more than $250,000 a year. ([SIZE="1"]self-explanatory[/SIZE])

And that?s just a tiny bit of what I?m looking at when it comes to deciding who to vote for. I consistently see that Obama?s past history and current stances often match up with what I want to see where McCain keeps voting for things I don?t want and against things I do want to see.

In short, just look through the sites that both Nathan and James linked too. The differences are there, you just have to look for them. I?d go more into detail but personally I think it?s better if you take a look for yourself.

[Doublehex]

[quote name='Lunox'][font=trebuchet ms] @ Matt: Can I ask what state you live in?[/font][/QUOTE]

I live in North Carolina. Why?

[Guest HighTide]

[quote name='Sabre']I would vote for Obama. I'm usually conservative and Republican leaning, but while McCain is a decent candidate who can hold his own, Obama's message is more inspiring. Perhaps I've been worn down over the last 8 years, but I feel that the Republican have had a good go, and it's time for change.

Oh, and Democrat administrations seem to make more progress with New Zealand interests, and it can't hurt our free trade goals.[/QUOTE]


I myself am more conservative and right leaning. I just wish we had a good republican Canidate to vote for.... but betwteen the two we DO have I have to say I favor Obama a lot more....like you said change is in order.

[Aaryanna]

[COLOR="DarkGreen"][FONT="book antiqua"]I can't vote. :( If I could it would be for Obama though. I may not know much, but I've done some poking around on the sites James and Nathan linked to, in addition to trying to read up in the news and other sources. The idea of supporting McCain or any other 'conservative' Republican... let's just say I'd rather not. As Retri put it, the neo-conservatism we've dealt with for the past eight years is something we don't need anymore. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[Justin]

I have no idea, and I refuse to read through this entire thread to see what you people think.

Let me just say this: If Nov.5 rolls around and news comes to me in boot camp that McCain won, I'm going to respectfully ask my RDC for a couple of days off to freak the **** out.

-Justin

EDIT: After posting this I took the poll. I hope OB is a good poll to follow.

[Aaryanna_Mom]

Before I say who I will vote for or who I think will win, I find all the snipping in regards to the polling both sad and amusing. I don't have to point to who implied it, but as a Republican (who gets polled regularly by the way) on disability/welfare, I find the ignorant assumption that we are 'overlooked' ill informed. Or wishful thinking or being snide and snarky just for the sake of doing so. (also known as trolling I believe)

Now in regards to the actual election, normally I would vote Republican, but to be frank, the last eight years has been painful to watch and I'm not sure I want to see it again. I don't really like Obama any better, but I'm just plain sick and tired of how things have been going.

All of the economic turmoil has hit those of us on fixed incomes really hard so I, along with many other Republicans, will end up voting for Obama simply to put an end to the Republican influence that we once supported. My faith in their ability to lead effectively is pretty much gone at this point.

[Vicky]

[size=1]I'm not American, but if I could, I would vote Obama.

Blair and Bush were quite good friends and if it should arise that the UK and US leaders continue that kind of friendship (that would be Gordon at the moment) then I would cringe if it were with McCain. Gordon Brown and John McCain both seem to share a really bad temper (or so I've been told by an American friend, so don't take my word)... that can't be good for both countries.

Also, Gordon supports Obama - not that I'm following Gordon Brown like a sheep - just that I'd rather there be at least some sort of relationship between the two leaders (let's not get into what I [i]didn't[/i] like about Blair and Bush's reigns and instead focus on what I did like) and that's more likely to happen if Obama comes out as the victor. I may want more than anything for the British government to grow a bloody backbone, but strong allies are a must have and allies are much better if the leaders get on like best friends. Don't you think?

Otherwise, I haven't been following too well, but I'm very suspicious of both of them. It's like the lesser of two evils - if I were American, or if I could vote, it would be Obama. Obviously there's little point in me having an opinion here because I'm not [i]entirely[/i] 'in it for America'. Granted I would miss you guys if your President turned out to be a maniac who blew you out of the ocean =p.[/size]

[Mr. Blonde]

[quote name='Vicky'][size=1]
I may want more than anything for the British government to grow a bloody backbone, but strong allies are a must have and allies are much better if the leaders get on like best friends.
[/size][/QUOTE]
Tony Blair let a 80 year old woman drag him around by the ear like a kid who snuck a cookie before dinner. And the relationship with Bush wasn't much better. Maybe Gordon Brown (I can't help but think of of the song Golden Brown by the Strangelers every time I hear his name) won't let America bend him over and stick it up his 'arse'.

[quote name='Vicky'][size=1]
Obviously there's little point in me having an opinion here because I'm not [i]entirely[/i] 'in it for America'. Granted I would miss you guys if your President turned out to be a maniac who blew you out of the ocean =p.[/size][/QUOTE]

I knew the rest of the world felt this way.
*Hangs head in shame*

Bush has single handedly made the entire Eastern Hemisphere hate us. I can tell you that I honestly don't feel entirely safe being an American right now. But you Brits shouldn't get comfortable either 'cause if we go down you're coming with us. Oh yeah and Australia, yeah we see you down there hiding out, you too, buddy.

[Guest Crimson Spider]

It annoys me how much the elections are decided on hearsay, bad generalizations, and [i]post hoc ergo propter hoc[/i] fallacies. For example:

There was a "Mexican March" in Southern Nevada (and I'm sure the rest of the world) in order to protest a new bill that would treat illegal status and aiding illegals as a crime. Now, there were some genuine reasons to protest this bill, but that wasn't why they marched.

A friend of mine's husband worked in an area where the march was. He pulled a few of the protesters aside:

Nick (the guy's name): What are you guys protesting?
Protestors: Bush wants to get rid of all Mexicans!
Nick: Don't you mean the illegals?
Protestors: No! He wants to get rid of all Mexicans!
Nick:... well that's just plain dumb. Who is going to cut his lawn and do his dishes then? (sarcastically).

Of course, I remembered the temporary worker plan Bush passed a month ago (at that time) that was to allow illegals to gain temporary citizenship to work harder jobs, and work toward their goal of getting full legal citizenship. I'm not even sure that the bill that would make helping/being illegal passed. But alas, it is irrelevant in the voter's eyes.

If only this was a problem restricted to a particular demographic. But, it is not. My sister's professors have a bad habit of believing random conspiracy theories. One day, her English professor openly stated that Bush remote-controlled planes to fly into the world trade center because he wanted Iraq's oil. I can understand this type of belief if you are in middle school, but if you have a Doctorate in Philosophy of English, you should know better.

Did he actually control planes? It doesn't matter in the election! What matters is what people think, because that is how they are going to vote. That is the greatest flaw with democracy: people have the ability to self-destruct themselves.


I always try to stick to the issues. Whether or not McCain Graduated 297th in a class of 299, or whether or not Obama attended a radical racist church for 13 years, that is all largely irrelevant. The big question that you have to ask is: When that bill hits the desk in the white house, will the president sign it into law, or veto?

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Vicky'][size=1]I'm not American, but if I could, I would vote Obama.[/size][/QUOTE]

[color=#9933ff]It's not odd that you have that opinion Vicky. A lot of my non American friends would also vote for Obama. My friend Angel is Canadian- she's tired of seeing Harper kissing Bush's *** constantly My boyfriend is also Canadian he says that he'd vote for Obama because he wants to try and talk to other countries instead of just attacking everyone. Plus he says that if we elect Obama maybe people will like us again.
[/color]

[Esther]

[FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"][SIZE="1"]What's with all the bashing of Fox News? It's obvious that Fox News has a conservative slant just as much as MSNBC/MSNBC/CBS are part of the liberal media elite therefore, leaning towards the left.

It's just a piece of OLD news that people need to get over.

As for the actual topic: I will be voting for the McCain ticket "holding my nose" so-to-speak. Like I've mentioned in another thread, Palin doesn't really catch my fancy. In my opinion, she doesn't represent smart, educated, conservative women such as myself well enough. Sure, she may be a "maverick" but in my opinion she's just a figure head my party put out in an attempt to keep hold of the office which they lost their chance in winning some years ago.

So, I do believe Obama will win this election -- I don't agree with his politics, but I will respect him as President of my country that I so dearly love, just as I, despite not supporting each and every one of his political moves, respect President Bush to this day.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[eleanor]

[quote name='Esther'][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"][SIZE="1"]What's with all the bashing of Fox News? [/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

[font=trebuchet ms] Because it's funny. And their website is hideous.[/font]

[Retribution]

[quote name='Esther'][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"][SIZE="1"]What's with all the bashing of Fox News? It's obvious that Fox News has a conservative slant just as much as MSNBC/MSNBC/CBS are part of the liberal media elite therefore, leaning towards the left.[/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]
[font=Arial]Because Faux News hired Bill O'Reilly.

He's simply a terrible newscaster -- rather than inviting people onto his show to have a discussion with them (like JIM LEHRER's News Hour), O'Reilly throws a tantrum at his guests, shouting and screaming the entire conversation.

It's honestly ridiculous.[/font]

[Mr. Blonde]

This just in:

"A vice president has a really great job because not only are they there to support the president?s agenda, they?re like the team member, the teammate to that president, [B]but also they?re in charge of the United State Senate[/B]."
-Sarah "Caribou Barbie" Palin

I'm not even sure I have the strength to point out all of the things wrong with this statement. The woman doesn't even know what her job would entail!

I'm moving to Canada.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Esther'][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"][SIZE="1"] What's with all the bashing of Fox News? It's obvious that Fox News has a conservative slant just as much as MSNBC/MSNBC/CBS are part of the liberal media elite therefore, leaning towards the left.[/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

[color=#9933ff]Because like it or not it's true. And I try to avoid cable news as much as I can and just watch the local stations at least local you get both sides.[/color]

[quote name='Esther'][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"][SIZE="1"] So, I do believe Obama will win this election -- I don't agree with his politics, but I will respect him as President of my country that I so dearly love, just as I, despite not supporting each and every one of his political moves, respect President Bush to this day. [/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

[color=#9933ff]Sounds like me with McCain. I can't bring myself to vote for the guy just because he was a POW because I don't respect his views and I especially can't stand his choice of a running mate. Palin doesn't represent anything I believe in as a woman and in my personal opinion was just a ploy by the GOP to get the female voters who were upset by Obama not choosing Senator Clinton because it's obvious the GOP feels that if it has boobs and ovaries we'll vote for it. I do respect McCain for his service to our country.

Oh and BTW, if I was living in California I'd vote yes on Prop eight because it's really no one's business what two consenting adults are doing in their bedroom. For Christ sake keep Gay Marriage legal[/color]

[Kenso]

[quote name='Katakidoushi']This just in:

"A vice president has a really great job because not only are they there to support the president’s agenda, they’re like the team member, the teammate to that president, [B]but also they’re in charge of the United State Senate[/B]."
-Sarah "Caribou Barbie" Palin

I'm not even sure I have the strength to point out all of the things wrong with this statement. The woman doesn't even know what her job would entail!

I'm moving to Canada.[/quote]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=1]OK, while I don't like Palin at all, I'm curious what's up with your bolded statement here. The Vice President is actually the President of the Senate, and the tie-breaker vote if one is ever needed. How often our Vice Presidents are actually present at Senate meetings, I don't know, but they do serve in that capacity.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=1]That said, I'm voting for Obama, though I'm not making predictions of any sort.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[Mr. Blonde]

[quote name='Kenso'][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=1]OK, while I don't like Palin at all, I'm curious what's up with your bolded statement here.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[/QUOTE]

My "bolded" statement is show how out of touch the woman is with american politics. The VP is not in charge of the senate, the Majority and Minority leaders or "Floor Leaders" head the senate. Though no one is technically in charge (democracy). The VP casts the tying vote, but other than that they have no senatorial powers; none. In an interview in august she said she, "Didn't even know what the vice president did". Scary.

washingtonpost.com — When Palin was mayor (of Wasilla, AK), the population was just 5,500... Palin limited her duties further by hiring a deputy administrator to handle much of the town's day-to-day management. Her top achievement as mayor was the construction of an ice rink, a project that landed in the courts and cost the city more than expected. Wasilla doesn't handle a fire department, a police department or a public school system.

I'm wondering what this woman actually did do.

[Kenso]

[quote name='Katakidoushi']My "bolded" statement is show how out of touch the woman is with american politics. The VP is not in charge of the senate, the Majority and Minority leaders or "Floor Leaders" head the senate. Though no one is technically in charge (democracy). The VP casts the tying vote, but other than that they have no senatorial powers; none.[/quote]

OK, now I can see where you're coming from, though I would probably put it down as poor phrasing. They are humans after all. I just wanted to make sure comments were being made with proper knowledge and all that. Too many political things get all screwed up because of one misunderstanding.

[Nony]

[quote name='James'][font=franklin gothic medium][url]http://obama-mccain.info/index-obama-mccain.php[/url][/font][/QUOTE]

Thanks [i]so[/i] much for posting that link, James. I've been wanting the same type of resource myself; something that is overall unbiased and just gives you the facts without all this idiotic mudslinging.
Now that I've read their (supposed) positions on the issues, I'm more confident now in my decision. Thanks again!

[Esther]

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman'][color=#9933ff]
Oh and BTW, if I was living in California I'd vote yes on Prop eight because it's really no one's business what two consenting adults are doing in their bedroom. For Christ sake keep Gay Marriage legal[/color][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]I hope you mean "No" on Prop 8! Haha.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Esther'][SIZE="1"][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]I hope you mean "No" on Prop 8! Haha.[/FONT][/SIZE][/QUOTE]


[color=#9933ff]Well I'd vote to keep it legal. I don't know which is which- I only heard Ellen talking about it a few weeks ago on Leno. I'm over in New York which is about as east coast as you can get without getting into the Maritime states/ provinces.[/color]

[TimeChaser]

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman'][color=#9933ff]Well I'd vote to keep it legal. I don't know which is which- I only heard Ellen talking about it a few weeks ago on Leno. I'm over in New York which is about as east coast as you can get without getting into the Maritime states/ provinces.[/color][/QUOTE]

Prop 8 would amend the California constitution to make marriage only between a man and a woman.

I'm rather afraid that the amendment here in Florida will pass. Once again proving I live in one of the lousiest states in the country. :animeangr

I hope I'm wrong though...

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='TimeChaser']Prop 8 would amend the California constitution to make marriage only between a man and a woman.

I'm rather afraid that the amendment here in Florida will pass. Once again proving I live in one of the lousiest states in the country. :animeangr

I hope I'm wrong though...[/QUOTE]

[color=#9933ff]Oh no you're right just look at what they did to the 2000 election. Your state does suck.

BUt I don't think it's right to get an ammendment like that. Isn't it in violation of civil rights?[/color]

[TimeChaser]

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman'][color=#9933ff]Oh no you're right just look at what they did to the 2000 election. Your state does suck.

BUt I don't think it's right to get an ammendment like that. Isn't it in violation of civil rights?[/color][/QUOTE]

Yes, it is. ^^

This kind of discussion is getting off the topic of the election though. We're swerving into territory covered in the Sexuality thread.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='TimeChaser']Yes, it is. ^^

This kind of discussion is getting off the topic of the election though. We're swerving into territory covered in the Sexuality thread.[/QUOTE]

[color=#9933ff]Okay in that case I say Obama will definately win for sure. I mean the man took time from his campaign to visit his grandma that has to count for something[/color]