Barack Obama: Confirmed to be 44th President of the United States

[Raiha]

[quote name='Katakidoushi']Did you just disagree with yourself?[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Actually there isn't a disagreement. I just happen to believe that once they write a good proposition that handles the subject of homosexual partnerships without managing to stifle/offend/etcetcetc heterosexual partnerships I'll be happy to support it with my vote.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR="Indigo"][FONT="Arial"][QUOTE=DeathKnight][color=crimson]However, I'm severely saddened by the rollback of civil rights that gays experienced on Nov. 4. Several states passed propositions against gay rights that dampened my good spirits for the positive and progressive victory that Obama secured.

Change we can believe in meets traditionalism we can oppress with.[/color][/QUOTE]It certainly looked like an oxymoron from where I'm standing. Considering that several of the states in question were blue in the end. I have to agree though, that part of the election really was sad to see. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[Mr. Blonde]

[quote name='Raiha'][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Actually there isn't a disagreement. I just happen to believe that once they write a good proposition that handles the subject of homosexual partnerships without managing to stifle/offend/etcetcetc heterosexual partnerships I'll be happy to support it with my vote.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

How have any of the propositions done anything that you just listed?

[Raiha]

[quote name='Katakidoushi']How have any of the propositions done anything that you just listed?[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Let's see. Did you read the Prop 8 bill in the state of California? No? Well then get back to me and try again.

Did you read any of the other Props? Well this may not be known to you, but California's bllls were all bonds bonds bonds bonds, which is all well and good until you realize that our economy has gone so far down into the red that we're virtually on the other side of the color spectrum now. We have to borrow money from other states to pay the salaries of state employees. All of the propositions put up for this year's ballot were designed to waste time that we don't have, spend money the state doesn't have, and create new meanings of words that have no business anywhere IN the state Constitution.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]I think it's very disappointing that these propositions did not last. As someone (I think Ellen) said, it's amazing that a country can take such a big step forward on one day and then take such a big step backward the next.

Having said that, I do think it's more a matter of time than anything else.

As far as Obama goes, I think it's good that he's moving so quickly to appoint his team. Hopefully the full team is announced before too long.

He will face a number of immediate challenges, the largest of which ironically being the Democrat-controlled Congress.

History demonstrates that when one party controls the Congress and the White House, the Administration tends to get wrapped up in uncontrolled spending and porkbarrelling. This is largely due to the absence of a strong opposition to provide appropriate checks and balances.

Also Obama will have to be careful to avoid the more extreme elements of his party who have some seniority in the Congress. These people will propose and expect riskier/quicker and larger movements on certain issues, some of which could be highly detrimental to the economy.

If Obama can resist these people and remain steady and if he can reign in control on over-spending as a result of the lack of opposition, then that will be a major achievement on his part. And it will really demonstrate his authority.

It will also be interesting to see where Obama settles on some issues. There are a couple of areas where he's held contrary positions at different points in time (like the missile defence shield) - I will be interested to see whether he sticks to the campaign platform or deviates to earlier positions.

I don't mean to say that in a critical way though - I actually think it's possible for a candidate to change their mind when they become more informed or receive more thorough advice. This seems to have happened with the defence shield, Iraq and a number of other issues.

And I think it's a good thing, because there's nothing worse than a leader who clings to one position no matter what the evidence to the contrary. Leaders have to lead, but they also have to be flexible.[/font]

[Chaos]

I have to say, I am extremely happy I did not vote at all. In fact, I would say this is the happiest I have been for quite some time. I personally didn't care for either candidate. In Obama's case, as typical as it is to hear a Southerner say this, I don't trust him. Couple reasons why, and the main thing to express here is NOT the black part. The main distrust comes from the Muslim aspect of his familial history, even though the people he has chosen to associate with have been of a Catholic following. I'm just bigoted like that.

Another thing is that...he's a Democrat and I live in Louisiana. Enough said.

Third thing is that he's hailing from Chicago.

...Hmm. That wasn't anywhere near as funny as I thought it would be.

If I had voted, I probably would have voted for McCain, just to go against the grain of popular culture. I truly don't like him, the way he presented his campaign, or the majority of his policies. In fact, I disliked both of their economic and international policies. Maybe I'm just not easy to please.

Maybe because I live in Louisiana, too, I hate all political elections. Too many dirtdigging and mudslinging campaigns have exhausted my patience I believe.

I'm just happy I'll be able to get the firearms I want before Obama is actually voted into office and does something screwy with the Second Amendment...if that even is on his to-do list for the first year.

Sad about the gay rights thing...though I could personally care less either way. You wanna get married? Go for it. I'm not gonna stop you.

I am glad to see that many of the pro-life bills didn't make it. This country is bad enough without even more single mothers who can't provide for children...or overpopulated families. Yes, I am at this point glaring at the family that lives down the street with twelve children, all within two years of age.

Amazing how some simple experiences can warp your entire perspective on an issue, isn't it?



[quote name='Raiha'][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Hooray for California. Chickens now have more rights than gay people.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]


Lol, whaaaat?



And Anomaly gets the kudos of this post for the ComboBreaker.


There. That should be enough to annoy people. *disappears for another ex-amount of months.*

[eleanor]

[quote name='Chaos']In Obama's case, as typical as it is to hear a Southerner say this, I don't trust him. Couple reasons why, and the main thing to express here is NOT the black part. The main distrust comes from the Muslim aspect of his familial history, even though the people he has chosen to associate with have been of a Catholic following. I'm just bigoted like that.
[/QUOTE]

[font=trebuchet ms] Excuse me while I read this to my friends, have a good laugh over it, and then find myself abruptly crying while writing my paper at 3 in the morning. [/font]

[Raiha]

[quote name='Lunox'][font=trebuchet ms] Excuse me while I read this to my friends, have a good laugh over it, and then find myself abruptly crying while writing my paper at 3 in the morning. [/font][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Why would you cry over something you have no control over and can neither prove nor disprove? There is a pretty strong case for Obama being raised within one culture and then abruptly switched to another. It's right there in his books and writing. And now that he's the President Elect, it'll be fun to see how much more is finally revealed by the media which was oddly reluctant to expose his past. We know more about Joe the Plumber than we ever knew about Obama's past.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[DeathKnight]

[color=crimson]One thing most people don't know is that Obama was at the Nuremberg Rally in '33 with Hitler.

Haha, but, seriously, conservatives love of the "Obama has secretssssssssseseses" line will, hopefully, go away since the general election is over.[/color]

[eleanor]

[quote name='Raiha'][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Why would you cry over something you have no control over and can neither prove nor disprove? There is a pretty strong case for Obama being raised within one culture and then abruptly switched to another. It's right there in his books and writing. And now that he's the President Elect, it'll be fun to see how much more is finally revealed by the media which was oddly reluctant to expose his past. We know more about Joe the Plumber than we ever knew about Obama's past.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[font=trebuchet ms] Dayum girl, I haven't even cried yet. Wait until 3 AM.[/font]

[Raiha]

[quote name='DeathKnight'][color=crimson]One thing most people don't know is that Obama was at the Nuremberg Rally in '33 with Hitler.

Haha, but, seriously, conservatives and the "Obama has secretssssssssseseses" line hopefully will go away since the general election is over.[/color][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Do you honestly think conservatives will go away just because the election didn't favor them this year? How divisive of you.

And it's not a matter of Obama has secretses so much as there are things about him not being actively reported even if they exist. Trying to tell me that the majority of media outlets wasn't totally enamored with making Obama look faultless before, during, and after [now] the election will be fun to try and square.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[eleanor]

[quote name='Raiha'][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]
And it's not a matter of Obama has secretses so much as there are things about him not being actively reported even if they exist. Trying to tell me that the majority of media outlets wasn't totally enamored with making Obama look faultless before, during, and after [now] the election will be fun to try and square.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[font=trebuchet ms] I'm sure we'll lean more of his past. But I also really doubt that we're going to discover some ~deadly secret~ about him. lol [/font]

[DeathKnight]

[color=crimson]Haha, I realized that I wrote "conservatives and" before you did Rai, though I do appreciate the wet dream of conservatives disappearing overnight.

"The media?" Haha, well, I can only report my own individual experience as a person who loathes television media in the following generalizations -

Fox NEWS: Obama is a troll-king!

CNN: Clinton is incredible, oh no she's losing, Obama is pretty cool too I guess. . .

MSNBC: Obama is the messiah![/color]

[Raiha]

[quote name='DeathKnight'][color=crimson]
Fox NEWS: Obama is a troll-king!

CNN: Clinton is incredible, oh no she's losing, Obama is pretty cool too I guess. . .

MSNBC: Obama is the messiah![/color][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]The troll king would've been preferable personally... ...His wardrobe would've been far more varied and exciting. Let's play find the flag pin! And yes. The media. That construct of misleading and spin that pollutes our minds when we make the mistake of paying attention to them.

I think it speaks just a little too well to your mild....neuroses that you would love [LOVE] to live in a one party nation. I think I read this book once. What was the title? 198-something. Oh rats I can't remember at all now.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Esther]

[FONT="Verdana"][SIZE="1"]Well, I obviously voted for McCain. My parents over in Arizona voted for Obama which I found pretty funny. It would have been so sad if McCain actually lost Arizona. Tuesday night was so historical, and I am proud--as a minority myself-- of Obama, even if I don't agree with his politics. I'm pretty sure millions of Americans across the country are still dumbstruck even today.

However, the night was overshadowed with sadness for me. When Prop. 8 was projected as a pass, my best friend and I just held each other in silence for such a long time. It just seemed so unreal, it broke my heart. And as Arizona, Florida, and Arkansas passed their anti-gay bills as well it just really dampened my night.

I've been protesting against Proposition 8 for about 2 weeks now and I participated in the march in West Hollywood last night.

I'm deeply ashamed to be a Californian today. I'm also in complete shock that 70% of African Americans voted in favor of Proposition H8. I would think that all of us minorities would be able to reach out and connect, if anything, with the gay community; we know first hand what discrimination is like.

We have to challenge the constitutionality of the proposition and repeal it.

I find it truly hypocritical of Californians (and Floridians for that matter) to elect a preacher of change yet in the same breath vote against it. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[The13thMan]

[quote name='Raiha'][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]
I think it speaks just a little too well to your mild....neuroses that you would love [LOVE] to live in a one party nation. I think I read this book once. What was the title? 198-something. Oh rats I can't remember at all now.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]Forgive me for chiming in at a random point. I haven't read many of the previous posts, but for some reason have felt compelled to respond to this little silly quote.

The sentiment to want to live in a world free from argument, drama, and tension from people who have opposing opinions is not a bad one. It is possible to live in a society where people generally agree with one another, and if done correctly, could be great. The only problem is that, as many great authors have pointed out (such as your Orwell), to accomplish such a task could require rather extreme and unfavorable circumstances. But that doesn't make the hope any less...hopeful. [/FONT]

[Sabrina]

[FONT="Tahoma"]I'm not sure what to post really, I had such a hard time making up my mind on who to vote for. o_O I'm not unhappy about it though so I'll just sit back and wait to see what happens when it becomes official next year.

I do have one thing to kind of comment on and that would be this here:[quote name='Esther][FONT="Verdana"][SIZE="1"]I find it truly hypocritical of Californians (and Floridians for that matter) to elect a preacher of change yet in the same breath vote against it. [/SIZE'][/FONT][/quote]That's assuming that the same people who voted for Obama [I]also[/I] voted for the ban on same sex marriage. That's a pretty big jump/assumption to be making don't you think?

We had a similar ban against same sex marriage come up here a few years ago. And though it passed, I don't feel ashamed for being a Utahan. Why should I? When I read it and realized that it discriminated against all couples (including straight) who were not married, I voted against it.[/FONT]

[Esther]

[quote name='Sabrina'][FONT="Tahoma"]
That's assuming that the same people who voted for Obama [I]also[/I] voted for the ban on same sex marriage. That's a pretty big jump/assumption to be making don't you think?

We had a similar ban against same sex marriage come up here a few years ago. And though it passed, I don't feel ashamed for being a Utahan. Why should I? When I read it and realized that it discriminated against all couples (including straight) who were not married, I voted against it.[/FONT][/QUOTE]

[FONT="Verdana"][SIZE="1"]I'm afraid you've mis-interpreted what I meant. I was speaking in general terms, California elected Obama and California passed Proposition 8. It's not an assumption, it's a fact.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[Sabrina]

[FONT="Tahoma"][quote name='Esther][FONT="Verdana"][SIZE="1"]I'm afraid you've mis-interpreted what I meant. I was speaking in general terms, California elected Obama and California passed Proposition 8. It's not an assumption, it's a fact.[/SIZE'][/FONT][/quote]It's also a fact that quite a few people voted against it. Passing doesn't mean everyone supported it. So to tell them they should be ashamed, when you don't know if they voted for both or not, is what I'm saying is a silly assumption. Some probably did, but I'm sure there were plenty who did not.

Plus I'm well aware that it's a fact (that the deal passed) I'm only calling to question the assumption that those who voted for Obama,[I] also[/I] voted for Proposition 8, it's a fine distinction, but it is one to think about.

Keep in mind: "Voters approved the constitutional amendment by a margin of 52.5 to [B]47.5[/B] percent, according to near complete results." So all I'm saying is that it's a stretch to assume that those who voted yes, also voted for Obama. Unless you have the hard data on how people voted that you can link to.

And yes I know you're being more general in your statements. I just think general statements of "you should be ashamed" are inflammatory and don't really solve anything other than to perhaps vent your own frustrations. [/FONT]

[Esther]

[quote name='Sabrina'][FONT="Tahoma"]It's also a fact that quite a few people voted against it. Passing doesn't mean everyone supported it. So to tell them they should be ashamed, when you don't know if they voted for both or not, is what I'm saying is a silly assumption. Some probably did, but I'm sure there were plenty who did not.

Plus I'm well aware that it's a fact (that the deal passed) I'm only calling to question the assumption that those who voted for Obama,[I] also[/I] voted for Proposition 8, it's a fine distinction, but it is one to think about.

Keep in mind: "Voters approved the constitutional amendment by a margin of 52.5 to [B]47.5[/B] percent, according to near complete results." So all I'm saying is that it's a stretch to assume that those who voted yes, also voted for Obama. Unless you have the hard data on how people voted that you can link to.

And yes I know you're being more general in your statements. [B]I just think general statements of "you should be ashamed" are inflammatory and don't really solve anything other than to perhaps vent your own frustrations.[/B] [/FONT][/QUOTE]

[FONT="Verdana"][SIZE="1"]You're still not grasping what my message was in my post. I'll edit this tomorrow when I have more time to elaborate on this. Also, I'm confused with the statement I bolded. I know I said I personally was ashamed to be Californian. Can you quote the part in my post where I told everyone is to feel ashamed like you said I did?[/SIZE][/FONT]

[Raiha]

[quote name='The13thMan'][FONT="Trebuchet MS"]But that doesn't make the hope any less...hopeful. [/FONT][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Speaking of silly little quotes I feel moderately compelled to point out that such a hope is vain. And his sentiment was one that could be easily interpreted to mean that all conservatives are stifling his goal of a socialist America. So in short, all dissent would disappear. That's not an admirable goal in the least, that's insanity.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[James]

[quote name='DeathKnight'][color=crimson]
Haha, but, seriously, conservatives love of the "Obama has secretssssssssseseses" line will, hopefully, go away since the general election is over.[/color][/QUOTE]

[font=franklin gothic medium]I'm not sure about the secrets thing, but I think there are legitimate questions about what Obama actually supports. He has, after all, had contradictory points of view on certain issues at different times.

And due to the way he was carefully handled during his first Senate term (i.e. being kept away from controversial votes so as to deliberately avoid building up a record), it's reasonable for people to question his core positions on issues - or at least, the positions he intends to advance when in government.

So that's all very legitimate, even for Democrats (and really for anyone who wants to make a sober assessment or analysis of an Administration).

Having said that, the whole Muslim thing is obviously absurd, as are any number of other "cultural" swipes that go Obama's way.

As for Proposition 8, I don't really think it's an Obama/McCain thing. I think that this issue is difficult for Americans in general and change is very slow here, as compared to other areas of civil rights.

It doesn't surprise me that the proposition was defeated, but it's certainly disappointing. I don't know what it specifically contained, but I doubt that it infringed upon the rights of heterosexual couples.[/font]

[Mr. Blonde]

[quote name='Raiha'][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Speaking of silly little quotes I feel moderately compelled to point out that such a hope is vain. And his sentiment was one that could be easily interpreted to mean that all conservatives are stifling his goal of a socialist America. So in short, all dissent would disappear. That's not an admirable goal in the least, that's insanity.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Wow. So do you only read the conservative propaganda?

I think Raiha's past few posts have just proven what I can not prove in one hundred posts. The conservative mind set would have us believe that Barack Obama can not be trusted because of the color of his skin and his father's religion. Is this really where we are in this country? Do we really want to be the people that add to the hysteria of religious persecution? Does someone's father's religion make them untrustworthy?

The word "Muslim" has become a poisoned word in this country. I'll chalk that up to fear and ignorance. People who don't want to face the truth use these reasons to hate another person . It's easier to hate someone for these things then to actually learn about them, and God forbid understand and admire them. This man has done more to help the unprivileged people of this country then I'm sure (no offense mind you) anyone on this board has. Yet people continue to base their opinions upon trivial factors. Would all of you like people's opinion of you to be based upon your father? Barack Obama only met his father once, when he was ten. So I think we can put this Muslim hoopla to bed.

And to address your post:

If I hear one more conservative say "spread the wealth" I'm going to stab myself. Maybe if you only watch Fox News you'd think Obama is a Socialist, but if you step outside of the very red box and into an open minded environment where facts exist you'd realize that is a false statement. If you show me one piece of evidence (not conservative heresay, but hard evidence) that's he's a socialist I'll retract my statement.

And "hope is vain"? Well thats just sad... Everything begins with hope. You believe that this country can not strive, can not move on to a better place? And Obama is vain for suggesting so? The bitterness of conservatives during (and apparently after) this campaign is sickening. He's going to be our next president, all of the complaining and fear-mongering in the world is not going to change that. I refuse to believe that you actually buy into this close minded rhetoric, Raiha. It's so beneath you.

If you're going to dislike the man, do it for legitimate reasons. It's understandable to disagree with someone, but do it based upon facts. The Republicans lost this election because they focused on low blows and smear instead of the issues. They never told the people how they were going to help them, they only said how Obama wasn't going to. McCain's tactic was to make people angry. I don't know about you, but I'm sick of being angry.

And by the way concerning the Californian props: You're right I haven't read them, that's why I was asking you about them. But apparently my question instilled quite a bit of anger.

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]The "spread the wealth" thing essentially seems to relate to the prospect of increasing taxes on higher income earners and lowering taxes on the middle class.

I must say though, I'm really not sure how this is socialist. The word "socialism" is the wrong term here.

Australia, the USA and many other developed nations have progressive tax systems that essentially place people into different tax brackets based upon their annual earnings.

So as you hit certain thresholds with annual income the percentage of income tax you pay per dollar increases.

In this country, the previous Government both cut taxes and shifted tax brackets. It moved the brackets higher up, so that [i]most[/i] people ended up paying less tax. This also gave some incentive for people to earn more money, since it's now harder to hit that top tax bracket.

The fact of the matter is, the wealth is [i]always[/i] spread. Whenever you pay taxes - even if it's just sales tax on an item - your money goes back into a collective pool of public funds where it's used to pay for Government programs and services. That includes everything from infrastructure to defence to the public postal system.

So technically as long as we're paying tax, our money is always being "spread" - including to people who are receiving unemployment benefits, etc (i.e. people who aren't injecting money into the system via income tax).

This is why I don't really understand the "spread the wealth" term being used for Obama. All he's proposing, as far as I know, is to make changes to the tax percentages for different groups. It's not as though he's got this idea of spreading people's money around in ways that aren't already being done, lol.

And the idea of cutting tax for the middle class and increasing tax for high income earners makes some sense, anyway.

The majority of workers would fit into that middle class group. Those workers are the ones that make up the bulk of the economy, in terms of production, services and as consumers. It makes sense to reduce their tax as much as possible, as a way of keeping the economy moving in general.

So I don't think Obama has invented some horrible new socialist system that he wants to throw at everyone. All he's really doing is proposing changes to the income tax brackets (or some kind of refund - I'm not sure how he'd do it). He's very much working within the established system.

The fact is, we have to pay taxes and for good reason. There will probably never be a perfect balance when it comes to income tax, but at least in America, you have to be earning pretty astronomical sums of money to hit that highest percentage I think. And at that point, it shouldn't be too much of an issue.[/font]

[The13thMan]

[quote name='Raiha'][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Speaking of silly little quotes I feel moderately compelled to point out that such a hope is vain. And his sentiment was one that could be easily interpreted to mean that all conservatives are stifling his goal of a socialist America. So in short, all dissent would disappear. That's not an admirable goal in the least, that's insanity.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]If you want to consider the hope vain, that's fine. But i don't. Why don't i? Well, it's mainly because i know that hoping for those ideals is good motivation for taking steps towards those ideals, productive steps that will yield productive and wholly good results. So then, i suppose it just depends on what you would consider to be vain.

It can be easily interpreted that way if you are already extremely defensive about your conservatism... which you seem to be. Perhaps you should reevaluate. [/FONT]