Discuss The Almagest Expedition: Backstage

[Shy]

[quote name='Nathan'][FONT="Arial"]This definitely looks promising. I'm interested in joining it. However, other than to indicate that I'd like to work with the Special Security Force's or rather create a character that is associated with that, I don't have much else to offer. I only just got through all the information in this thread. And that doesn't include the previous chapter if I were to go find it and read it.

Anyway, I'm going to go ahead and start working on what I have in mind and I assume that when sign ups are finally being accepted, a new thread will go up in the Auditions part of OtakuBoards. [/FONT][/QUOTE][size=1]Sounds excellent, Nathan. And yes, we'll be posting a new sign-up thread in Auditions within the next week. I look forward to seeing what you come up with (and everyone else, for that matter!)

-Shy[/size]

[Mr. Blonde]

Shy, what were you thinking in regards to a hierachy of the Church of the Phoenix?
For example, after Sief what would follow down to the lowerest ranks? If you haven't put much time into it I could put something together for you or we could work on it together. Also, I could flesh out the exact role of the citadel guards, down to their assignment to every cleric of the church, how they are equipped, and their recruitment and tour of duty. If you think this is too much detail I understand.

Anyway, if you want me to put something together, just give me all the info you've compiled in regards to the church and I'll work off of that. Thanks.

[Shy]

[quote name='Mr. Blonde']Shy, what were you thinking in regards to a hierachy of the Church of the Phoenix?
For example, after Sief what would follow down to the lowerest ranks? If you haven't put much time into it I could put something together for you or we could work on it together. Also, I could flesh out the exact role of the citadel guards, down to their assignment to every cleric of the church, how they are equipped, and their recruitment and tour of duty. If you think this is too much detail I understand.

Anyway, if you want me to put something together, just give me all the info you've compiled in regards to the church and I'll work off of that. Thanks.[/QUOTE][size=1]
Here is my basic idea.
[list=2][*]Sief - Elected every three years by High Priests/Clerics
[*]High Priests - Appointed by Sief. Many work alongside her like a presidential cabinet would. One might be appointed High Priest of Charity, while another would be High Priest of Technology. There is no set number of High Priests.
[*]Cardinals - Have ranking seniority among regular priests. There are only 100 cardinals at any given time. They manage daily church affairs in their assigned area.
[*]Clerics - Clerics have abandoned regular church life to pursue other interests, while still working towards the Church of the Phoenix's goals. Many take up scholarly work, others work with charities.
[*]Priests - Perform religious services and ceremonies throughout the world. Training into the priesthood requires nearly ten years of education and service, and many pick up other skills and specialties during this time.
[*]Devotees - Those training into the priesthood. Generally each church has a single priest, and a single devotee.[/list]

We can always change this to better fit someone's character(s) though. :whoops:

As for the Citadel Guard, feel free to come up with some stuff. They are a volunteer force, but for many it would be a great honor to be accepted into the elite Guard.

-Shy

[b]Edit:[/b] Per Sunfall.[/size]

[Mr. Blonde]

[SIZE="1"][list]The Citadel Guard: Throughout Anova and Czenovia the Citadel Guard is recognized as the legion of the Church of the Phoenix. They are hand picked by the church’s Cardinals throughout the world for their dedication to their faith, and skill in battle. Only the most gifted of soldiers will be fortunate enough to become a Legionnaire of the White Fire. For some it is a life’s goal, for others it is life itself. The Citadel Guard was established when it became evident that the church may be under attack for its outspoken opposition to war and its call for the impeachment of many high ranking officials within the Anovan and Czenovian governments. The Guard soon found itself useful in many other fields, including rescue and recovery, and the personal protection of High Priests (some of whom act as Generals to the guards) and the Sief, who of course is their commander in chief. The Guard carries yatagans sheathed in scabbards, and are always adorned in heavy mail armor beneath red hooded robes. The identity of all members of the Citadel Guard is kept secret for their protection, and that of the church, hence a white scarf embroidered with the church’s symbol (the sacred firebird) is worn over their mouth and nose. Service in the Citadel Guard is always until old age, death, or sickness prevents otherwise, the honor of service is too great to expect any less.[/list][/SIZE]

So, Shy, only the High Priests and Clerics vote? Wouldn't that kind of fix the elections considering the Sief appoints the high priests? Or is that what you were going for?

[Shy]

[quote name='Mr. Blonde']So, Shy, only the High Priests and Clerics vote? Wouldn't that kind of fix the elections considering the Sief appoints the high priests? Or is that what you were going for?[/QUOTE][size=1][strike]That's more or less what I was going for. Sief Frost has held the position for a record ten terms, so it is safe to say she is either universally beloved, or has manipulated the system in such a way that it would be impossible for her to lose power. I'm sure we'll figure out which one it is once we start the story.[/strike]

[b]Edit:[/b] Indi wanted me to clarify this point a bit. Since the cardinals of the church are comprised of the 100 priests with the most seniority, the cardinals far outnumber the high priests in voting. However, since they are the [i]senior[/i] priests they are generally traditionalist in their views, and reluctant to change. This more than anything can probably be attributed to her longevity in the position. I'm sure there is some political maneuvering as well, just as with any election, though.

She is very fair in the position, but probably too outspoken for her own good. I'm sure her critics wish she would devote less resources to charity and more to the expansion of the church, which has been declining in the New Globe for generations.

All of the stuff about the Guard looks great. I may trim it down a bit for length, but will add it to the Anova section of the sign-up right now.

-Shy[/size]

[SunfallE]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"]I'm assuming it's a typo Shy but wouldn't that be Cardinals instead of Clerics? Just a tiny detail there since the other doesn't make any sense at all. o_O

Also, since I have already spoken to you about a potential interest in playing a new character associated with the church I'd like to offer a different suggestion for how the guard is dressed. I'd like to present an alternative view over the total secrecy one that Mr. Blonde has suggested.

[URL="http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2118/digikyng5556gd2.jpg"]Image[/URL]

If the church disapproves of technology so much, I'm not so sure they'd be so quick to mine the earth for the materials needed to create so much armor for their guards. That seems to be hypocritical of the minimalist approach that they would take in my opinion.

Where simple yet elegant clothing and slim blades seems more reasonable and would fit the church image better in my opinion. It would give them protection and yet fit neatly within the views they seek to uphold.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Shy]

[quote name='SunfallE'][COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"]I'm assuming it's a typo Shy but wouldn't that be Cardinals instead of Clerics? Just a tiny detail there since the other doesn't make any sense at all. o_O

Also, since I have already spoken to you about a potential interest in playing a new character associated with the church I'd like to offer a different suggestion for how the guard is dressed. I'd like to present an alternative view over the total secrecy one that Mr. Blonde has suggested.

[URL="http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2118/digikyng5556gd2.jpg"]Image[/URL]

If the church disapproves of technology so much, I'm not so sure they'd be so quick to mine the earth for the materials needed to create so much armor for their guards. That seems to be hypocritical of the minimalist approach that they would take in my opinion.

Where fancy clothing and slim blades seems more reasonable and would fit the church image better in my opinion. It would give them protection and yet fit neatly withing the views they seek to uphold.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE][size=1]Hm. Cardinals sounds fine instead of clerics. My biggest concern with naming them 'cardinals' was the association with the Catholic Church, but I'll change it right away. See how flexible I am? I'm awesome.

As for the guard, perhaps there can be a compromise. Those directly assigned with guarding the Sief will have their identities concealed, while lower ranking Guard members will be in the less conservative uniform Sunfall has suggested.

I like the ideas behind both an awful lot. Armor would certainly be a necessity in certain situations, but it wouldn't make sense for a regular Guard to be walking around in such bulky armor.

-Shy[/size]

[Mr. Blonde]

[quote name='SunfallE'][COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"]If the church disapproves of technology so much, I'm not so sure they'd be so quick to mine the earth for the materials needed to create so much armor for their guards. That seems to be hypocritical of the minimalist approach that they would take in my opinion.

Where simple yet elegant clothing and slim blades seems more reasonable and would fit the church image better in my opinion. It would give them protection and yet fit neatly within the views they seek to uphold.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

I like that image, SunfallE, nice choice. We should go with the musketeer angle, it's smooth. How about leather armor instead of heavy mail? Leather is lighter, wouldn't require mining and could be concealed easily under their outfits. Also we can assume the church would raise livestock, and the most holistic thing to do would be to use all of the animal, including the skin for leather armor, and possibly the bone for buttons and sword hilts. In fact bone could replace a lot of items that would regularily be made from metal, thus reducing mining significantly.

(Are the hulls of the zeppelins made of metal? How about wood, like a brig?)

We can elimate the scarf. I like the idea of it, but it seems mysterious to me and might clash with the musketeer look. Perhaps we can incorporate the scarves somewhere else.

Also a yataghan bayonet is actually very similiar to the sword in the image, if not exactly that.


[list][SIZE="1"]The Citadel Guard: Throughout Anova and Czenovia the Citadel Guard is recognized as the legion of the Church of the Phoenix. They are hand picked by the church’s Cardinals throughout the world for their dedication to their faith, and skill in battle. The Citadel Guard was established when it became evident that the church may be under attack for its outspoken opposition to war and its call for the impeachment of many high ranking officials within the Anovan and Czenovian governments. The Guard soon found itself useful in many other fields, including rescue and recovery, and the personal protection of High Priests and the Sief. Service in the Citadel Guard is always until old age, death, or sickness prevents otherwise, the honor of service is too great to expect any less. [/SIZE][/LIST]

Edit as you see fit, Shy.

I left out much about appearance since I believe the picture would cover it (if that's the one you plan on using).

[Shy]

[quote name='Mr. Blonde'](Are the hulls of the zeppelins made of metal? How about wood, like a brig?)[/quote][size=1]Heck if I know. For all intents and purposes let us say they are made of wood. There are some situations where using metal is a necessity, for sure, but I imagine the church is very clever about avoiding the use of metals whenever possible.

I like the 'musketeer' look of the Guard a lot too. Great find, Sunfall. The light leather armor definitely makes more sense here.

-Shy[/size]

[SunfallE]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"][quote name='Shy][size=1']Heck if I know. For all intents and purposes let us say they are made of wood. There are some situations where using metal is a necessity, for sure, but I imagine the church is very clever about avoiding the use of metals whenever possible.[/size][/quote]Well though I do think the church would be clever to a certain extent, I'm not so sure they'd go so far as to build it entirely out of wood. After all the gas used for Zeppelins is highly flammable. So it wouldn't make much sense to use something that also burns. Plus, wood would rot after being rained on. It wouldn't provide an airtight seal either, allowing the precious gas to escape.

So I see them being as clever as possible and yet still willing to use the bare minimum of materials necessary for such ships. Like how the guard would have real steel swords instead of wooden or other materials that wouldn't work as well.

I can definitely see leather armor under the uniforms in the image I provided since that would provide protection and cut down on the need to mine for ores. Just as I can see the other more bulky ones for Sief's personal guard. That would be considered more acceptable.

Basically it comes down to me seeing the church as an entity that continually strives to strike a balance between using technology that is necessary and shunning technology that is more of a want than a true need. Especially if it's destructive in nature.

Based on what Shy said here:

[U]The Church of the Phoenix is monotheistic, and followers believe that the Phoenix Goddess guides all living beings in an endless cycle of death and rebirth.[/U]

This is more than just a simple desire to avoid pollution, this is a deep rooted belief that they are not only taking care of the world for the next generation, but for when they themselves will return in the future.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Mr. Blonde]

[quote name='SunfallE'][COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"]Well though I do think the church would be clever to a certain extent, I'm not so sure they'd go so far as to build it entirely out of wood. After all the gas used for Zeppelins is highly flammable. So it wouldn't make much sense to use something that also burns. Plus, wood would rot after being rained on. It wouldn't provide an airtight seal either, allowing the precious gas to escape.[/QUOTE][/color][/font]
If a zeppelin catches on fire, wood or not it's going down. Plus the hull would not need to be air tight, because it is completely closed off from the blimp. Most air luxury air ships have windows, so the air tight lock isn't neccesary. Also if rotting were an issue, naval forces wouldn't have made their battle ships from wood for thousands of years.

[QUOTE]
Osage orange is a homely wood, its crooked, curved growth looking almost deformed compared to arrow-straight hardwoods such as oak. But it resists rot well, and its natural crooks make it ideal for shaping into a hull's curved ribs. [/QUOTE]

Also the ships could be thermal air ships, which means they are powered by hot air and not flammable gas such as hydrogen. Also helium will not burn either.

[quote name='SunfallE'][COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"]
So I see them being as clever as possible and yet still willing to use the bare minimum of materials necessary for such ships. Like how the guard would have real steel swords instead of wooden or other materials that wouldn't work as well. [/QUOTE][/color][/font]

The swords could be made out of alternatives, such as ceramic. Some metal is used in production, but not nearly as much as a steel sword for instance.

[QUOTE]
Ceramic knife blades of various forms have the advantage that the ceramic they are made from (ususally some form of aluminium or zirconium oxide) is extremely hard. Not as hard as diamond, but fairly close if you believe the marketing. This means that it can be made extremely sharp and will not wear down and blunt the way a steel blade will.
[/QUOTE]

Or as I mentioned before bone. The tibetans used to make swords out of whale bone. If you think about it, bone is extremely strong, considering all of the wear and tear we put it through.

[quote name='SunfallE'][COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"]
I can definitely see leather armor under the uniforms in the image I provided since that would provide protection and cut down on the need to mine for ores. Just as I can see the other more bulky ones for Sief's personal guard. That would be considered more acceptable. [/QUOTE][/color][/font]

I think all of the guards should be dressed how you presented, SunfallE. Like I mentioned I really enjoy the design.

EDIT: Here's the look I was going for in regards to the hull of the airship.
[U][URL=http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/9167/19111964ag4.png][B][COLOR="Blue"]image[/COLOR][/B][/URL][/U]

And looking back I noticed Shy mentioned the ships were steam powered, so the engine would most likely have to be iron of some kind, but the rest of ship could be wood.

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]I see no problem using metal here. Earlier it was mentioned that the church had issues with alchemy and magitechnology (particularly the latter).

I'd say that the church may decide to use a particular metal material in conjunction with wood, so as to avoid violating their core beliefs. But I doubt they'd use alloys or "magic-infused" technology.

Therefore they might be opposed to the use of Anovan silver, different types of which contain various basic magical properties.

So I would say that the use of a raw, relatively unrefined metal would be ok. But I can understand the church taking issue with the idea of heavily refining or radically altering - via magical or technological means - the properties of a natural material.[/font]

[DeLarge]

[SIZE=1]It's nothing too urgent at this stage, but if anyone could supply me with whatever information exists about the Old Globe then that would be great - I was planning for my character to have been travelling there for a few years, so a little supplantory information would be really helpful.

If there's a problem with him travelling there (if there was anything to do with the Old Globe you wanted to save for later, for example), then please don't hesitate to tell me.
[/SIZE]

[Mr. Blonde]

[quote name='James'][font=franklin gothic medium]I see no problem using metal here. Earlier it was mentioned that the church had issues with alchemy and magitechnology (particularly the latter).
[/font][/QUOTE]

I didn't think I had read about the church being opposed to non-magical metal, but then again I know I'm not as familiar with this story as some of you guys so I wasn't sure. I agree, James, as far as being able to use metal, but I just like the application of wood here better. I think it looks good and it's much lighter than steel would be. Plus it would be much easier to work with, unless the church has large refineries to manufacture the steel. And I think since the church is very "green", most likely the ships would be kept afloat by hot air, which would eliminate any fire hazard in that regard.

EDIT: Or here's a fine compromise: A mixed bag. Some metal ships, some wood. I'd imagine there would be different phases of ships, older and newer. So in that time span the material they were created from might have changed by what was available at the time. Metal can be recycled after all.

And steel swords sound fine to me. I suppose we don't need to confuse the issue.

[Shy]

[quote name='DeLarge'][SIZE=1]It's nothing too urgent at this stage, but if anyone could supply me with whatever information exists about the Old Globe then that would be great - I was planning for my character to have been travelling there for a few years, so a little supplantory information would be really helpful.

If there's a problem with him travelling there (if there was anything to do with the Old Globe you wanted to save for later, for example), then please don't hesitate to tell me.
[/SIZE][/QUOTE][size=1]The Old Globe nations are located on another continent from Anova and Czenovia entirely. The largest is Al-Ahmar, which is an enormous desert expanse, but there are countless others. Whereas Czenovia and Anova were both established by settlers in the past several hundred years, the 'Old Globe' nations are each many thousands of years old.

They are lands where nature and superstition reign. Technology is not nearly as advanced as it is in the New Globe, nor are the governments as centralized. Religion is much more prominent, and this is where the Church of the Phoenix maintains an enormous and devoted following. As a result, these places are generally looked upon down by citizens of Czenovia and Anova as being inferior.The aristocracy regularly travels to the Old Globe to visit lavish island resorts, or go on safari, but few are knowledgeable about the world beyond the Sea of Sorrows, and even fewer care.

Several of these nations have been at war with one another for hundreds of years, but due to the geographic distance between the Old and New Globe the two areas have almost always been on friendly terms.

Feel free to come up with whatever else you want, DeLarge. No doubt I'll be 'feeding' certain players information about the Old Globe when the time is right.

-Shy[/size]

[SunfallE]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"]You've kind of missed my point Mr. Blonde. Just as the church is not one-note or evil, it is not fanatical in the opposite direction in regards to all of technology either. I realize some of the confusion comes from not being a part of the first rp in this series but what Shy was referring to in his post here: [URL="http://www.otakuboards.com/showpost.php?p=829164&postcount=42"][U]post[/U][/URL] is the [U]magitechnology[/U] that was pretty much exclusive to Czenovia only. If it helps there is a bit on it which can be found in the opening post for the backstage of the previous rp. Here's a link to it: [URL="http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=58301"][U]post[/U][/URL]

Unlike other forms of technology, magitechnology creates enormous amounts of pollution in comparison to other forms of technology. So having a blend of the other kind is perfectly reasonable and what I am getting at. In comparison to say the regular population they would definitely be more reserved, hence the avoidance of large amounts of metal armor when leather would work. But at the same time they are not so fanatical that they shun [I]all [/I]technology. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[Shy]

[size=1]Hm. Like in all religions I think Church followers' individual views on magitechnology run across the full spectrum. There are traditionalists who see no value to it at all, while more progressive followers are probably indifferent.

Mount Grail, which is now home to the Czenovian capital of High Czenoble, was essentially hollowed out by Gem Hunters looking for metals and stones that could be used with Magitechnology. It is this extreme greed and disregard for nature which continues to worry members of the Church, nearly a century since Lord Celcius Almagest first developed the technology.

They are certainly not foolish enough to avoid all technology, though. Despite their opposition to using magitechnology Sief Frost understands that compromises must be reached in order for the church to remain modern and relevant.

-Shy[/size]

[Nathan]

[FONT="Arial"][quote name='SunfallE][COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"]If it helps there is a bit on it which can be found in the opening post for the backstage of the previous rp. Here's a link to it: [URL="http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=58301"][U]post[/U][/URL] [/FONT'][/COLOR][/quote]Thanks for the link, reading the material in that first post cleared up some of the questions I had about certain aspects of this paticular rp. There is one thing that is most peculiar though. It seems that I should know the image used in the Chronicle about CHAOS. It is oddly familiar for some reason but I can't seem to place it.

Also, though my character isn't going to be directly associated with the church, I rather like the idea of a more focused and balanced organization. Instead of the tired and clichéd fanatical or evil approach that seem to be so popular in movies and stories.

I much prefer that and since I intend to have a character who is a member of the Special Security Force's, I think that difference would show up in their attitude towards the church guard as a whole. [/FONT]

[Mr. Blonde]

[quote name='SunfallE'][COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"]You've kind of missed my point Mr. Blonde. Just as the church is not one-note or evil, it is not fanatical in the opposite direction in regards to all of technology either. [/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

I misunderstood your point at first, but now my point is actually similiar to yours. They only use mining and technology when it is more useful or there is no alternative. It seems since they wouldn't use metal for armor, they wouldn't use thousands of pounds more metal for a fleet of air ships when wood would do the job, and actually be more practical, like I suggested:

[quote name='Mr. Blonde']... but I just like the application of wood here better. I think it looks good and it's much lighter than steel would be.
[/QUOTE]

But I also suggested a mix of some wooden and some metal ships. We can agree on that maybe? Or perhaps wooden ships held together with large steel struts. What's your thought on this, SunfallE?

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]At this point I honestly wouldn't worry too much about the precise composition of these ships. I mean, this is a relatively minor point when it comes to the scope of the RPG.

My recommendation is to strike the middle ground that we all pretty much agree upon anyway. If you want to get into the specifics of how the ships are held together, it may be better to do that within your actual RP posts.

The more critical element right now is thinking about your characters and what their stories will be, I'd say. [/font]

[Mr. Blonde]

I was beginning to think that as well. However I wasn't sure how much detail needed to be present. Apparently not as much as I had thought. I'll throw that on the back burner.

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]Well yeah, I mean, we have so much general stuff to cover anyway (like the geography, institutions, etc). :catgirl:

Besides, usually what happens is, people interpret things as they like in the RPG and try to keep a general consistency. If something's glaringly wrong or over the top, it usually gets picked up at some stage.

Otherwise, it's usually first-in, first-serve with stuff like this. So a lot of stuff gets worked out within the RPG itself.[/font]

[SunfallE]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"][quote name='Mr. Blonde']I misunderstood your point at first, but now my point is actually similiar to yours. They only use mining and technology when it is more useful or there is no alternative. [/quote]That's the general idea. Also like James just said, it's definitely open to people to develop in their posts since I'm sure it would vary from region to region. I mainly wanted to be clear on that since I have some specific ideas that I hope to incorporate into the rpg at some point. Having a very rigid method of operation would have severely hampered that, but since we've agreed that it's not like that, I'm good to go. :catgirl:[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Shy]

[size=1]Okay, the Auditions thread is up. I'm sure there are a zillion typos, but I'll have to address them over the weekend. Thank you to everyone for their help in getting this underway (it was no small undertaking!)

We'll keep using this thread to discuss the RPG, and probably to bicker back and forth. I miss Sandy already!

-Shy[/size]

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]The thread is already looking great. I am still hunting for some artwork for my characters, but I shall be signing up soon!

I'm really happy to see the Achard family already beginning to fill out. It feels nice to give Vincent and Gustave some relatives finally![/font]