Atheists Send a Message, on 800 Buses

[James]

[quote name='Allamorph'][FONT=Arial]I'm just amused that this obvious statement of confidence and initiative has our resident atheist members still as bitter about the issue as ever, even though the only responder so far who has had a problem with the slogans is an acknowledged atheist himself. ([COLOR="DarkRed"]Raiha[/COLOR] aside, of course. We all know how happy her posts are. :animesmil)[/quote]

[font=franklin gothic medium]Maybe I'm just not noticing it, but I haven't seen much bitterness here.

I mean, there's been a sense of "if they can do it, so can we" but that's not really being bitter. I can't say I've noticed it as a general trend among atheists on OB or anything. :catgirl:[/font]
[quote]
What I wonder is how many people the news reporter had to interview to find someone who was that deeply offended by the slogans. If you let your dander get riled by someone telling you to doubt your own convictions 1) what the devil is wrong with you, and 2) are your convictions really that strong to begin with?[/quote]

[font=franklin gothic medium]Absolutely. I agree 100%.

I've never understood the deep outrage on some issues, especially when many of them do come down to personal conviction anyway.[/font]
[quote]
Actually, I found the slogans to be rather clever. My favorite was this one:
[INDENT][I]?Atheism: Sleep in on Sunday mornings,?[/I][/INDENT]
I admit it. I snerked. :animesmil[/FONT][/QUOTE]

:smirk:

[chibi-master]

[quote name='Allamorph'][FONT=Arial]I admit it. I snerked. :animesmil[/FONT][/QUOTE]

Who didn't?!:catgirl:

Honestly, why do people take things like that so harshly? So someone doesn't believe in God, SO WHAT? What does that have to do with someone who does? It's not like Atheists are doing anything wrong, right? They're believing what they want, and so are religious people. So in a way, we're sort of alike.:animesmil

[Rachmaninoff]

[QUOTE=Allamorph][FONT=Arial]Actually, I found the slogans to be rather clever. My favorite was this one:
[INDENT][I]?Atheism: Sleep in on Sunday mornings,?[/I][/INDENT]
I admit it. I snerked. :animesmil[/FONT][/QUOTE]And that's why I created the thread. Not to spark a debate on whether or not one side should or shouldn't advertise. Or try to attempt to have some [I]perceived[/I] higher ground based on their actions. But because it was funny and I got a good laugh out of it when I first saw it this morning. =P And the best part is, it's still making me snerk a bit.

[Allamorph]

[FONT=Arial]'Xactly.

People be too dan serious, yo. All da people.[/FONT]

[Sabrina]

[FONT="Tahoma"]I'm really religious and yet I giggled when I saw the slogans. XD I don't see anything wrong with it. I think, if anything, that religious people can look at them and try to lighten up a little. It's too easy to take everything seriously.

Anyway, now I'm curious to see what people would think if buses here had that kind of slogan on them. I know I'd just giggle again. :catgirl:[/FONT]

[Drizzt Do'urden]

[quote name='Sabre']As a Christian I welcome these bus adverts, they get the discussions on faith, God and the meaning of life stirred up, and that can be a good thing. [/Quote]

I have to agree with this statement. Anything that can get the ball rolling is good for both sides; forces some to question their faith and reaffirm it, and gives athiests a good hearted laugh.

I'm afraid I have to side with the Religons on this argument. Though I've become sort've a laxed christian, I still believe in the higher power.

But I have many true athiest friends and when I showed them the article they chuckeled the same way I did. For someone to actually be offended by this in my opinion is absurd and you should be slaped repeatidly by a tell burly nordic man who's working his way into Valhala.

[Aaryanna_Mom]

[quote name='Sabrina'][FONT="Tahoma"]I'm really religious and yet I giggled when I saw the slogans. XD I don't see anything wrong with it. I think, if anything, that religious people can look at them and try to lighten up a little. It's too easy to take everything seriously. [/FONT][/QUOTE]I agree. I did laugh at the one about sleeping in on Sundays. Since so many religious put a lot of money and time into advertising so to speak. I have no problem with the other side of the belief or non-belief doing the same. Especially when the message is as cleverly done as these are.

[Tophel]

[quote name='Allamorph'][FONT=Arial]
Actually, I found the slogans to be rather clever. My favorite was this one:
[INDENT][I]?Atheism: Sleep in on Sunday mornings,?[/I][/INDENT]
I admit it. I snerked. :animesmil[/FONT][/QUOTE]

Yes, that was a good one. A shame the Australian authorities didn't see the funny side of it and banned/refused it for their buses. Heheh. Does this mean Australians lack a sense of humour compared to the British? Hmm.... :animesmil

[Allamorph]

[quote name='Tophel'] Does this mean Australians lack a sense of humour compared to the British? Hmm.... :animesmil[/quote]
[FONT=Arial]Dunno. I'm American.

[I]*rimshot*[/I][/FONT]

[Mr. Blonde]

[quote name='Allamorph'][FONT=Arial]I'm just amused that this obvious statement of confidence and initiative has our resident atheist members still as bitter about the issue as ever, even though the only responder so far who has had a problem with the slogans is an acknowledged atheist himself.
[/FONT][/QUOTE]

I haven't seen anyone that is bitter. Why would athiests be bitter about these ads? It doesn't make sense. I don't particularly find the ads humorous though, as some people do, but they don't make me feel bitter, though perhaps a little hopeful that a second age of reason may be on the way.

a swing and a miss

[Vicky]

[size=1]I have not read all that has already been said but...

...I wear my Atheism like a cross.

So kudos to these guys, and a lot more, at that.

The slogans on my shirt cause uproar and silly little comments. But like I said, I were my atheism like a cross.

And everyone else like me should wear it as such.[/size]

[Manic Webb]

[quote name='Vicky'][size=1]I have not read all that has already been said but...

...I wear my Atheism like a cross.

So kudos to these guys, and a lot more, at that.

The slogans on my shirt cause uproar and silly little comments. But like I said, I were my atheism like a cross.

And everyone else like me should wear it as such.[/size][/QUOTE]
Isn't presenting your lack of religious beliefs in a manner akin to a religious symbol a bit... ironic?

[Allamorph]

[quote name='Manic Webb']Isn't presenting your lack of religious beliefs in a manner akin to a religious symbol a bit... ironic?[/quote]
[FONT=Arial]Actually, no, because she refuses to believe in [I]anything[/I], as she's told me several times herself. If I remember correctly, she does so because she sees blatant hypocrisy and arrogance in any and all courts, and wants none of it.

Close enough, Vic? Been awhile since the last time we chatted about that subject.[/FONT]

[Manic Webb]

[quote name='Allamorph'][FONT=Arial]Actually, no, because she refuses to believe in [I]anything[/I], as she's told me several times herself. If I remember correctly, she does so because she sees blatant hypocrisy and arrogance in any and all courts, and wants none of it.

Close enough, Vic? Been awhile since the last time we chatted about that subject.[/FONT][/QUOTE]
Right, that's good, except I didn't ask if she believed in [i]anything[/i]. I asked if it was ironic to not believe in anything, yet still liken those lack of beliefs to symbols of belief.

Maybe we're just not understanding each other.

[Vicky]

[size=1]Yep, it's called irony, and I'm fully aware of it. Hence why I used that particular phrase.

And you're pretty close to the mark Morph, haha. Quit close but a little off =p.[/size]

[SunfallE]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"]It made me laugh. The ads were clever and the irony of the whole thing was great. Turnabout is fair play in my opinion.

Sabrina, I would positively die laughing if I saw those slogans on buses here in Utah. XD[/FONT][/COLOR]

[TheShinje]

[quote name='TimeChaser']

The issue is this: religion has somehow achieved this charmed status where people are allowed to get very offended if someone is at all critical of it. Richard and his contemporaries want to put religion on the table of rational criticism, and allow us to discuss it open and freely in the same we we debate politics and music and any other intellectual subjects.

There are very good reasons people give up their religions or never believe in the first place, and we'd like to discuss those reasons rationally.[/QUOTE]

Rational discussion benefits us religious types too, since we can freely discuss difficulties and apparent contradictions in the Bible. You have to be able to handle objections and criticism without getting tempered, and this is where you get problems with the shouty-down types, because either they're not ready or their faith is weak and easily shaken .

I Welcome the rational discussion Mr Dawkins desires.

[TimeChaser]

An interesting new development in the story...
[url]http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2009/01/08/watchdog-to-probe-atheist-advertising-claim-91466-22649549/[/url]

From the article:
[I]Stephen Green, national director of Christian Voice, complained to the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) yesterday, saying the adverts break the ASA?s codes on substantiation and truthfulness.

?It is given as a statement of fact and that means it must be capable of substantiation if it is not to break the rules.

?There is plenty of evidence for God, from people?s personal experience, to the complexity, interdependence, beauty and design of the natural world.

?But there is scant evidence on the other side, so I think the advertisers are really going to struggle to show their claim is not an exaggeration or inaccurate, as the ASA code puts it,? said Mr Green.

The adverts contain the slogan: ?There?s probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life,? whilst the ASA code states that ?marketers must hold documentary evidence to prove all claims, whether direct or implied, that are capable of objective substantiation?.[/I]

I've heard that this Stephen Green also tried to bring a charge of blasphemy against [I]Jerry Spring - The Opera[/I].

:rolleyes:

[Red]

[quote name='TimeChaser']An interesting new development in the story...
[url]http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2009/01/08/watchdog-to-probe-atheist-advertising-claim-91466-22649549/[/url]

From the article:
Stephen Green, national director of Christian Voice, complained to the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) yesterday, saying the adverts break the ASA’s codes on substantiation and truthfulness.
[size=1]snipped[/size][/QUOTE]

Hopefully he won't get very far with that complaint. The possibility of at least one person complaining about truthfulness was brought up in the fundraising stage, so the campaigners made sure the word probably was used on the main ad. Unless the ASA embarks on a massive rewrite of the rulebook over the next few days the campaign should be fine.

[Mr. Blonde]

[quote name='Sabre']Rational discussion benefits us religious types too, since we can freely discuss difficulties and apparent contradictions in the Bible. You have to be able to handle objections and criticism without getting tempered, and this is where you get problems with the shouty-down types, because either they're not ready or their faith is weak and easily shaken .
[/QUOTE]

I agree with you that getting tempered on either side does not help their case. Becoming angry because someone doesn't believe what you believe undermines the individual's point.

However... because there is much more data of all types in favor of the scientifc argument whenever I've discussed religion with anyone I've had the conversation end one of two ways:

1. The conversation hits a wall. This usually happens when the conversation has lasted well into its second hour and I've laid out all of my reasoning for my athiesm, and they've done the same for their beliefs. When there is nothing left to lay on the table the other individual says: "I just believe".

2. I convince them within 20 minutes and we go eat ice cream. (these people were on the fence anyway)

My point is I understand how it can become frustrating for people on either side. One person doesn't understand how someone can believe what they do, and they other person doesn't understand how they can't. When someone truly believes in something it is almost impossible to convince them otherwise.

[Nathan]

[FONT="Arial"]That is hilarious, both the slogans and the angry response to it. I find it highly amusing that anyone would get upset over the ads. I certainly pay no attention whatsoever to the religious ones I see. The whole thing is wonderfully tongue in cheek and frankly, in my opinion, it's about time someone thought to do it. :animesmil[/FONT]

[Jax Rhapsody]

I see no problem with it, showing you beliefs of disbelief, either way I'm no athiest, dont think religion is the way and would love to have that bus for a sick RV.

[Drix D'Zanth]

[quote name='Shy'][size=1]In my experience, they are. Prove me wrong, though!

I'm Agnostic myself, and quite content.

-Shy[/size][/QUOTE]

Well first, I should point out that Agnosticism and Atheism are complimentary. Unless someone is foolish enough to say ?I know for certain that there is no God?, a claim that no one can make reasonably, they are both Atheist and Agnostic. As an Atheist, Agnostic, Humanist, Secularist, myself? I acknowledge that not only am I privy to the Gnosticism (knowledge) of religion, I also am [i]without[/i] a belief in a personal God, or ?a-theist?.

I concur with your experience, if only because I think there are [i]bad[/i] reasons to be atheist. I think you bring up an important point, which is why I like the Humanist message on the Bus, it?s a positive one: Live your life well and don?t waste it on what are, essentially, myths!

[quote name='Darren'][SIZE="1"]Well I'll disagree with you on point 1. I'm atheist; I [B]believe[/B] that God doesn't exist. Furthermore, if atheism isn't a belief, then why would they bother to advertise. They shouldn't care.
Point 2: I slightly agree. I don't think it's necessarily shoving beliefs on others... But my whole point is that atheists shouldn't have to advertise. They shouldn't care because they're not a religion... By advertising on the buses, they're defeating the whole idea behind atheism.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Darren, calling atheism a belief is sort of like calling ?bald? a hair color. I don?t believe that there is NO God, I just don?t think there is any evidence in favor of the God of Christianity. In addition, I think belief in God is bad because it replaces our ability to think for ourselves on matters like Evolution, Gay Marriage, and other matters of social concern with a Divine Authority that has about as much evidence for it as other ancient Gods, such as Mithras, Dionysus, and Baal. I wouldn?t listen to them to inform my politics, so why should I let Christianity inform what should be a secular, inclusive society (a society that would permit freedom to practice your chosen religion privately, of course).

[b]James[/b], I think [u]The God Delusion[/u] is a fairly well-written book. However, if you are hoping to find a fantastic, readable, and thorough dissection of religion I would recommend Richard Carrier?s [u]Sense and Goodness Without God: A defense of Metaphysical Naturalism[/u]. The book is not only a thorough refutation of most modern theisms, but it provides POSITIVE arguments for a naturalistic worldview including overlooked topics like ethics and aesthetics. In addition, it is completely consistent with science. Best of all, it is a very readable book. I recommend it strongly.


Anyway, it?s a fun ad. And despite its whimsical nature, it really is an important message.