Forgivable or not?

[Drizzt Do'urden]

Sorry about the title to this thread, I couldn't think of a good one to reflect on the content...

The Avatar movie discussion thread has taken an interesting turn, and since not everybody checks the Sight & Sound forum I thought I would bring it to everybody at the lounge.

The piece of the thread I'm takling about is the fact that the casting director asked that people show up in attire from their specific country (I recommend checking it out because it actually ends up sort've humerous. (The casting director actually thought that Kimonos were Korean).

That specific area is what the little discussion has stemed from. Instead of adding quotes I'll invite you to check it out [URL="http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?p=831227&posted=1#post831227"][I]here[/I][/URL] specifically [B]Dagger's[/B] post and my last post on this page.

Basically the question at hand for everybody is: Is a comment made with no malicious intent still the same as making a hateful remark? Case in point (I'll use the same example I used in that Avatar post here:

A child grows up around biget (white) parents who drop the "N" word around like its going out of style. The child does not know the meaning of the word, so has no hurtful intention when they use it in front of a black person. Is that act forgivable, or does it not excuse the person?

[TheShinje]

Each case has to be judged on it's merits, but I think it's fair to say that if a child has been indoctrinated by a racist family, and has no understanding of the hurt caused by words such a the n-bomb, then that child cannot be held responsible. The blame must lay at the feet of the parents/guardians, who have planted this hate and bigotry into a young impressionable mind.

Once the child understands the ramifications of this worldvied, and the hurth some words can cause people, and they still use them anyway, tht's when you can call them on it and condemn them for their behaviour.

[Rachmaninoff]

[quote name='Drizzt Do'urden']Basically the question at hand for everybody is: Is a comment made with no malicious intent still the same as making a hateful remark?[/quote]Yes, it is a hateful remark. However, it's one made out of ignorance instead of a deliberate attempt to insult the other person. What makes it hateful is that the person who was hurt by it, can't possibly know that the other person doesn't know they are being offensive.

That doesn't mean it can't be cleared up and if the person who made the comment is sorry because they didn't understand, there's no reason, in my opinion, to not forgive. However, if they continued to make remarks like that after being informed, then I'd be less inclined to forgive the first incident.

[jomz]

The first time that they do that act, maybe it can be forgived. Given the example of the child, since it was done on an innocent knowledge of the child, then it can...

However, once that child knows that the word is hurtful to others, yet continues to use it without regard, then I guess, that act is the one that needs punishment...

[Tophel]

[quote name='Drizzt Do'urden']Basically the question at hand for everybody is: Is a comment made with no malicious intent still the same as making a hateful remark? [QUOTE]

In short, yes. Maybe it differs in degree but it is still an offence and it is still offensive.

Here is why:

The offense arises not from the intent of the person making the comment but from a REASONABLE response from the person receiving it. So you may call a black person a '******' without malice, but that is still offensive. You may comment on a fellow worker's bottom or her breasts without intending offense, eg as a compliment, but that does not mean it is not reasonable for her to perceive it as sexual harassment.

And this is as it should be because we cannot read someone's mind.

[SunfallE]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"]Of course it's hateful when something like that happens. The original intent might not be, but the words will be since the one hearing them can't possibly know that the one saying them doesn't fully understand.

Is it forgivable? Definitely. There's a huge difference between deliberate statements vs ones that were not. I'm sure it varies from case to case, but if the one who was offended is enlightened to the fact that the person didn't realize it, then I see no reason why letting it go would be a problem. Especially if the person makes a point of not doing it again. [/FONT][/COLOR]