Bring that gun to church!

[Rachmaninoff]

I don't know if I should bang my head on my desk, or laugh at this paticular article:

[URL="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31111096/"][U]Pastor asks members to bring guns to church[/U][/URL]

Apparently, according to the pastor in the article: "Says it's a good way for his Ky. flock to celebrate Independence Day" Now I'm all for responsible gun ownership and promoting it, but at church? o_O Yup, I'm still torn between cringing or just giving up and laughing at the whole thing.

So what do all of you think? Good idea or exceptionally poor one on account of where they want to hold the 'learning' session as it were? Oh and what happened to outdoor cooking and fireworks? Much better way to celebrate the holiday in my opinion.

[John]

I'm tired of Christian patriots. America isn't a theocracy, and for that I'm enormously grateful. I don't want a system as twisted as our government claiming to represent my God to the world. I don't like hearing this pastor using the phrase "God and firearms". A lot of people need to stop singing patriotic songs in church, debating whether the founding fathers were Christian or not, looking at the presidency as a position of spiritual leadership, and generally making a religion out of America.

I don't care about bringing guns into church though.

[Horendithas]

[COLOR="Indigo"][FONT="Arial"]In this case, the location is irrelevant. It's the underlining message being portrayed that I find objectionable; but John covered that pretty well already. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[The Spectacular Professor]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Eh. Gotta say it doesn't concern me too much, other than the fact that providing a gun safety lecture seems a bit moot when everyone's already carrying one. I personally don't see why a group of intelligent, responsible Christians can't get together and discuss firearms. After all, the weapons won't be armed anyway according to the article.

My philosophy on gun safety is that more responsible people arming themselves would help prevent shootings. A person plotting murder isn't going to bother with obtaining their weapon legally, but might think twice if their intended victim could defend themselves. I'm not saying that everyone just toting guns around everywhere is a fun prospect, but limiting too much could end up putting people in danger.

And on a final gun safety note, anyone who shoots someone in cold blood should be struck across the face by the handle of their own firearm.[/FONT]

[Raiha]

[quote name='Ace'][FONT="Comic Sans MS"]And on a final gun safety note, anyone who shoots someone in cold blood should be struck across the face by the handle of their own firearm.[/FONT][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][LEFT][FONT="Times New Roman"]But anyone who shoots someone in the heat of the moment should be cuddled and given candy canes and lollypops.

Not a very penetrating statement there except to make the assertion, perhaps, that anyone who shoots someone in cold blood must be a bad person and not doing it in defense of someone else, or their own safety.

Also, if John is tired of Christian patriots, he should probably also be tired of Catholic patriots, Asian patriots, and black patriots and a lot of the other patriots in America that carry guns. That statement does nothing but to highlight the sheer ignorance and prejudices people have against a certain group who for the most part doesn't do anyone else harm. I find that statement exceedingly offensive and as a Christian who for the most part likes to believe herself to be proud to be a relatively free American and not an oppressed 'citizen' of a third world country I can only express my contempt for someone who is 'tired' of my kind. [/FONT][/LEFT][/COLOR]

[Kenso]

[COLOR=SeaGreen][SIZE=1][FONT=Comic Sans MS]Beyond saying how silly this entire idea seems, I'd like to point out to Raiha that Catholic Patriots are by default Christian Patriots.

Not that I care much about guns in church (and if I did, it'd be an entirely different topic to begin with), but WTF kind of church promotes carrying around an instrument of such violence. I'm all for carrying weapons, to be honest, but it just seems strange for a church.
[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Raiha]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Christians and Catholics don't necessarily equal each other because of theological difference which are somewhat stark, and while the lines are occasionally muddy, it's enough of a difference for a lot of people to call them by different names.

i.e. there are several Catholics on the US supreme court and they're called Catholics, not Christians.

It's their Right and Choice to carry a gun to church if they want to. There is no reason why they can't, or shouldn't if they want to do it. And for us to sit in self righteous satisfactory judgment, secure and comfortable in our disdain for others seemingly strange choices is embarrassing.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[The Spectacular Professor]

[quote name='Raiha'][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][LEFT][FONT="Times New Roman"]Not a very penetrating statement there except to make the assertion, perhaps, that anyone who shoots someone in cold blood must be a bad person and not doing it in defense of someone else, or their own safety.[/FONT][/LEFT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]I may have misspoken. My understanding of the phrase "in cold blood" is basically "with no justification." I don't object to self-defense or defense of others. I mean like the punks you hear about on he news who off a guy for saying something dirty about their mother.[/FONT]

[Raiha]

[quote name='Ace'][FONT="Comic Sans MS"] I mean like the punks you hear about on he news who off a guy for saying something dirty about their mother.[/FONT][/QUOTE][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Your mom is a classy lady.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Gavin]

[SIZE="1"][I]Everybody and their mums is packin' round here.[/I]

Pretty much the first thing I thought of after reading the article.[/SIZE]

[Sabrina]

[FONT="Tahoma"]o_O Well I can understand wanting to be responsible if you're a gun owner, but the idea of bringing them to church just seems beyond odd to me. Probably because I don't own one and I've never used a gun. Other than that, I don't really see a problem with it.[/FONT]

[SunfallE]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"]Well it would seem rather odd to me, to bring guns to church. Though responsible gun ownership is a good idea, I just don't associate gun with religion. Though I know some do. So I think I'll just shrug and go oh well? I don't really care one way or the other.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Drizzt Do'urden]

I'd like to comment on the catholic vs. christian thingy. Catholics ARE in fact christian, the reason they choose to classify themselves as Catholic publicly is because there is such a large group of Protestants out there.

While methodists, presbyterians, lutherins etc can get along with one another, Catholics TYPICALLY (please note I use the word typically there because I don't want people to cry about how I'm judging a whole group) don't condone other forms of christianity. It's TYPICALLY (See how I did it again) if you aren't catholic get the **** out.

Now to the subject at hand, I don't particularly see anything wrong with this. Now I find it an odd constitutional right to celebrate, but who am I to judge. I do think a more "hey look at what we're doing" approach at celebrating your rights is everybody wearing tank tops and showing off their bare arms.

[Lady Asphyxia]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]Hey, that's a great idea. But carrying guns is banned in my country...[B]why don't I bring a knife[/B]? [/SIZE][/FONT]

[Gavin]

[quote name='Drizzt Do'urden']I'd like to comment on the catholic vs. christian thingy. Catholics ARE in fact christian, the reason they choose to classify themselves as Catholic publicly is because there is such a large group of Protestants out there.

While methodists, presbyterians, lutherins etc can get along with one another, Catholics TYPICALLY (please note I use the word typically there because I don't want people to cry about how I'm judging a whole group) don't condone other forms of christianity. It's TYPICALLY (See how I did it again) if you aren't catholic get the **** out. [/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Catholicism is a [I]denomination[/I] of Christianity, the reason we refer to ourself as Catholics is simply because we are members of the Catholic faith and follow Catholic doctrine. Historically the reason Protestants referred to themselves as such was to distinguish themselves from Catholics after the Reformation and not vice-versa. That said, I don't believe Protestants refer to themselves under the umbrella term Protestants, but rather under their own denomination as Anglican, Lutheran, Calvinist etc in the same way Catholics do.

As for your remarks about the unity among the Christian denominations I've never had that experience that Catholics are any less welcoming than other denominations, and historically from an Irish perspective the reverse would be true. Also the term typically does imply the majority Drizzt, so when you use it you are actually judging the majority of the group rather than a segment of it.[/SIZE]

[Drizzt Do'urden]

I didn't say I wasn't juding the majority, I said I wasn't judging the whole group if you want to get nitty gritty about it. And I come from a city with a strong catholic influence (3 large catholic churches, 2 elementary and a high school) in the city limits.

They catholics that I've dealt with are in fact very open to treat protestants as people when it comes to everyday lives, but when it comes to religous topics its is in fact "you don't believe what we believe so you're wrong and going to hell for it."

Other then that I've spent plenty of time serving with catholics and the like....

So now I'm rambling again when my whole point was I say i was using the term TYPICALLY and not to confuse it with the whole group. The majority is not the whole group

[John]

[quote name='Raiha'][COLOR=DarkOrchid][LEFT][FONT=Times New Roman]Also, if John is tired of Christian patriots, he should probably also be tired of Catholic patriots, Asian patriots, and black patriots and a lot of the other patriots in America that carry guns. That statement does nothing but to highlight the sheer ignorance and prejudices people have against a certain group who for the most part doesn't do anyone else harm. I find that statement exceedingly offensive and as a Christian who for the most part likes to believe herself to be proud to be a relatively free American and not an oppressed 'citizen' of a third world country I can only express my contempt for someone who is 'tired' of my kind.[/FONT][/LEFT]
[/COLOR][/quote] Jeez, where do I start? The post wasn't meant to be inflammatory, and you interpreted it completely wrong anyway. The point was that a lot of people shouldn't put the government on the same pedestal as their religion. I don't care if anyone carries a gun, regardless of their faith. Indi seemed to get my point alright, so it couldn't have been that badly-conveyed.

[Elk]

At least they're being safe about this whole thing. But it still just doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
Something is bound to happen.

[Nathan]

[FONT="Arial"][quote name='John']Jeez, where do I start? The post wasn't meant to be inflammatory, and you interpreted it completely wrong anyway. The point was that a lot of people shouldn't put the government on the same pedestal as their religion. I don't care if anyone carries a gun, regardless of their faith. Indi seemed to get my point alright, so it couldn't have been that badly-conveyed.[/quote]I got it just fine and I agree. I don't have any issues with doing something like that, but at the same time, I agree with the sentiment John is talking about here. I don't think people should put government on the same level as their religious beliefs either.

However, learning more about gun safety and proper handling is something I'm always for. Too many people don't have a clue what they're doing when they go and purchase a gun. And I'm not just saying that, all one has to do is go and look up leading causes of accidental death in the US and you'll find accidental discharge of a firearm on that list. [/FONT]