Banning Bottled Water

[Rachmaninoff]

I found this paticular article rather interesting. Mainly because it never occurred to me to actually ban something like bottled water. Article can be found here:

[URL="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31822716/ns/world_news-world_environment/"][U]H2-WHOA! Australian town bans bottled water[/U][/URL]

I can agree with the sentiment of doing away with it for government meetings, after all, our taxes don't need to be paying for them to drink bottled water. But to outright ban the sale of it period? Seems to be going a bit overboard in my opinion.

So what do you think? Smart move, or do you think it's an incredibly stupid one?

[Drizzt Do'urden]

It's no secret that bottled water companies have been passing filtered tap water off for "spring" water. But I do think that banning it on a global scale would be...well is just not possible.

There are too many people that do rely on bottled water due to the unavailability of drinkable water.

I don't really agree with the banning it at government meetings either, just for the simple fact that they're not spending enough money on the bottled water they drink to really affect much. 20$ on bottled water once a month really isn't anything to worry about, wouldn't even pay to put a sign-up that says "pothole".

[Nathan]

[FONT="Arial"][quote name='Drizzt Do'urden']I don't really agree with the banning it at government meetings either, just for the simple fact that they're not spending enough money on the bottled water they drink to really affect much. 20$ on bottled water once a month really isn't anything to worry about, wouldn't even pay to put a sign-up that says "pothole".[/quote]Not to burst your bubble or anything, but you might want to actually read up on what your state spends on bottled water before you make that statement. This ought to help you understand why states and cities are opting to ban it from government funded offices.

Article Here --> [URL="http://www.heraldextra.com/news/state-and-regional/govt-and-politics/article_3e7d1ca5-d651-5c9a-9a79-7ff485d2ad06.html"][U][B]Gulp! State spends $220K on bottled water[/B][/U][/URL]

Keep in mind, that's only accounting for up to July, the year isn't over yet. So it's a hell of a lot more than just $20 a month on bottled water. So removing a frivolous expense like that is something I'm in favor of since it's our tax money that pays for it.

The other I don't agree with. Sure I think it's important to increase awareness and perhaps cut back on waste (as in the plastic bottles) but I think the consumer should be able to choose for themselves. [/FONT]

[Drizzt Do'urden]

First we aren't talking about a state per the article, we're talking about 1 city. So based on the average amount of times a city council/government meets (since I said for their MEETINGS in my post) that is the number I was using.

You're talking about a state government that is supplying bottled water to all State workers including the government officials. Of course the number is going to be horrendous.

Please READ posts before you try to break them apart.

[Nathan]

[FONT="Arial"][QUOTE=Drizzt Do'urden]First we aren't talking about a state per the article, we're talking about 1 city. So based on the average amount of times a city council/government meets (since I said for their MEETINGS in my post) that is the number I was using.

You're talking about a state government that is supplying bottled water to all State workers including the government officials. Of course the number is going to be horrendous.

Please READ posts before you try to break them apart.[/QUOTE]The point is that it adds up. And I did read BOTH articles and posts before replying. The first one doesn't give any figures, it only states this: [quote][FONT="Arial"]Over the past few years, at least 60 cities in the United States and a handful of others in Canada and the United Kingdom have agreed to stop spending taxpayer dollars on bottled water, which is often [B]consumed during city meetings[/B][/FONT][/quote]I included a link to a more in depth article for my state, which if you had bothered to read, broke it down as to what areas in the state of Utah spent what on bottled water. It also gave some expamples for single cities in the US.[quote][FONT="Arial"]San Francisco canceled its city spending on bottled water in 2007, saving nearly $500,000 annually. Seattle, which stopped buying bottled water last year, is saving up to $57,000 annually.[/FONT][/quote]So you pretty much just came up with the arbitrary figure of $20 all on your own. Darren and the article didn't say for only one meeting. It just said so many cities opted to do away with bottled water paid for by tax money.

Unfortunately, that doesn't really explain the reason or cost savings behind the idea in the first place. You dismissed it without even bothering to consider if it would actually save significant amounts of money. This is why I said you should actually do some research before you replied.[/FONT]

[Drizzt Do'urden]

hmm didn't know Rach's real name was Darren, learn something everyday.

My "arbitrary" figure of $20/month was based on a city meeting and the average cost of the packaged bottled water as I've stated twice now.

As far as research goes I don't need to do my research to realize there are two different topics in the article, thusly there are going to be different figures. The article speaks of doing away with water in CITIES and STATES (and continents if you count Austrailia).

So as far as banning water in city offices (specifically for town meetings), and you base the price of $3.00 for a 24 pack of nestle's lifewater or whatever it's called (and no I'm not going to go research the specific name) then supplying water is not going to be that big of a deal (of course that's my opinion) and a figure such as $20 isn't as far fetched, sure it would still be a little low but for a small city no its not.

Now if you go statewide and include all state offices then yes your number is going to be much higher and the need for "regulation" is going to be obvious.

So please keep researching obvious numbers and reporting them to me for an argument that's completly spawned out of your inability to read a persons post (since AGAIN I referd to city spending in my first post) before attempting to "burst" their bubble.

[Akieen Cloud]

[COLOR="Navy"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"]As much as people DO spend on bottled water, its just not possible to get good clean water from your kitchen faucet all over the nation. A few of the places I lived the water was so bad(it was well water) that not even a home filtration device worked on it, so we HAD to but bottled water, cause there was no way I was making formula for my son with that water, it was so full of iron and sulfur it smelt like blood. So I think it's a little hasty to think about banning bottled water altogether. Some places need filtered water like that due to limited resources. How much people spend on bottled water on average is a whole other ball field I would like to think, it depends on who your asking cause some poeple(like my husband) can't drink tap water, to much stuff in it he says, but I dunno it's water.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[chibi-master]

Let's not forget that if bottled water [I]is[/I] banned, it would drag the crappy economy down even more. Not to mention the people working for the companies who bottle the water and the people who deliver it to stores would lose their jobs.

[Vicky]

[size=1]Even if you bottled your own water you still have to pay the water rates and then by a plastic bottle. So if companies use tap water they're basically doing all the work for you.

I still think this is a bit petty. It's bottled water, for Christ's sake. I think over here people only buy it when they're out... I've seriously never heard of people to buy bottled water as opposed to drinking their own tap water.[/size]

[Rachmaninoff]

[quote name='Drizzt Do'urden]I don't really agree with the banning it at government meetings either, just for the simple fact that they're not spending enough money on the bottled water they drink to really affect much. [B]20$ on bottled water once a month really isn't anything to worry about[/B], wouldn't even pay to put a sign-up that says "pothole".[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Drizzt Do'urden]You're talking about a state government that is supplying bottled water to all State workers including the government officials. [B']Of course the number is going to be horrendous.[/B][/quote]You know, the two things I've bolded, is [I]why[/I] it should be banned. If you break it down, it looks harmless, but if you pull back and look at the whole picture, it[I] is[/I] horrendous. You've really missed the point on this one here. Nathan already covered it so I'm not going to bother to repeat what he just said.
[quote name='Drizzt Do'urden']So as far as banning water in city offices (specifically for town meetings), and you base the price of $3.00 for a 24 pack of nestle's lifewater or whatever it's called (and no I'm not going to go research the specific name) then supplying water is not going to be that big of a deal (of course that's my opinion) and a figure such as $20 isn't as far fetched, sure it would still be a little low but for a small city no its not. [/quote]I take it back, I'm going to cover this and simply repeat what Nathan already said. Do. Some. Research. Stop focusing on one aspect and look at the whole picture. What these places do is pay a company to set up water stations, you know the ones with the upside down large bottles for dispensing, which ends up toting a very hefty price tag in the end.

The only reason I said meetings is because the article I read said that was where it was mainly consumed. By no means was I only looking at that aspect. If I was, I wouldn't be in favor of them banning it from state offices. I live in a state where the water out of the tap is perfectly fine, so there's no excuse really. Especially when they want to add a $150 tax per semester here, per student, to the budget and yet can't be bothered to trim out wasteful spending.[quote name='Vicky][size=1']I still think this is a bit petty. It's bottled water, for Christ's sake. I think over here people only buy it when they're out... I've seriously never heard of people to buy bottled water as opposed to drinking their own tap water.[/size][/quote]And I seriously know people who refuse to drink anything but bottled water, even though ours here is fine. I do agree that outright banning is petty. It's only the removal from government offices that I agree with.

[Allamorph]

[QUOTE]"To take away someone's right to choose possibly the healthiest option in a shop fridge or a vending machine we think doesn't embrace common sense," [Geoff Parker] said.[/QUOTE]

[FONT="Arial"]Then again, you can do the same thing by buying a reusable bottle, like a sports bottle or thermos, and filling it with water from your own tap.

Or several sports bottles, if that's what you need.



[COLOR="DarkRed"]Drizzt[/COLOR], you need to ease back, man. The fact that you're being highly defensive over an innocuous topic, and really one particular phrase by one person, especially while you demonstrate a profound ignorance of city government as far as numbers and office and personnel are concerned, is really doing you no good at all.

City governments encompass more than just the mayor's office. You also have to factor in the board of aldermen, the school board, the commissioning board, the various utility departments, sometimes the school systems, and probably one or two other offices I'm forgetting to mention.

I really don't want to rag on you, man. But you're lashing out at a guy without even listening to him [I]or[/I] yourself, and it's obvious to the rest of us you don't quite have all the info. Take a breather and let a few days go without posting in this thread, see if you can calm down a bit, eh? (^_^)[/FONT]

[Drizzt Do'urden]

Well thanks for the advice Allamorph, but I've already done the stepping back and taking in the "big picture". I apologize for flooding the thread with "backlash" posts trying to defend myself when it was my fault I didn't go into detail about my meaning of "government meetings" in my first post.

My $20 was based on a government meeting meaning a city government, or city council, meeting. Which I live in a small town with just over a thousand more then the town mentioned in the article, and yes I know that a city is comprised of many offices, though admitingly I'd never heard of the Board of Alderman. So again it was my fault for not going into detail, I didn't expect somebody would misinterpret my meaning and strike me down with their google search bar.

So my fault for being vague, but I do think that the single phrase set a tone of a condesending post by a person whose ability to google numbers apparently gives him a license to do so based on previous posts.

[Akieen Cloud]

[COLOR="Indigo"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="Navy"]Whoa...serious bashing for a water based thread...*shakes head*

Any way. I think that banning bottled water altogether would be seemingly pointless in my own opinion, but than again I've never really understood the whole council thing per say. But I think it's a choice for people to make in the long run personally. I mean if people prefer bottled water, that's nice, if they drink it from the tap that's nice too. It's water, taste the same just about everywhere( and notice I said just about here, I don't want to get in the bashing element) I just think it's a tad bit of a over reaction. But I'm a small town girl where we drink water from a hose so what do I know? I never had a thing for bottled water, that's my husband's deal. Heh. To me water is water, no matter where you get it so I suppose I just don't understand the wanting to ban bottled water...it confuses me and quite frankly makes no sense to me on any level.[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]

[Nathan]

[FONT="Arial"][quote name='Drizzt Do'urden']So my fault for being vague, but I do think that the single phrase set a tone of a condesending post by a person whose ability to google numbers apparently gives him a license to do so based on previous posts.[/quote]Casually dismissing it as a mere $20 a month was equally as condescending, in the other direction of... it's no big deal. It spoke of ignorance towards the topic at hand. However, if you felt one of my phrases was condescending, then by all means, just ask and I'll reword it.

Also, you're now putting me down by implying that all I did was google the information when you know nothing about me at all. I'm quite active in local politics and I googled the information for your benefit, not mine. I'm already aware of the situation and why it's being seriously considered.

I have no problem pulling back a little if you think I'm being snarky, but in return I ask that you not assume I just 'googled' things in order to respond to this topic. [/FONT]

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]I had heard that Sydney City Council was no longer providing bottled water at meetings and functions, but I didn't know about this other town.

There are a couple of things I'd just add to this.

Firstly, the town in question is one I've never even heard of - I'm not sure how big it is, but I'd guess it's fairly small. My inherent feeling is that it would be difficult for one town to actually ban a product - unless, of course, the town is so remote that it doesn't have many direct neighbours. I'm guessing this is the case with the town in question.

Secondly, the debate about bottled versus tap water is fundamentally different in Australia, where the quality of our tap water is of a very high standard. In fact, in most places, the quality of tap water is [i]better[/i] than what you'd get in a bottle.

So for us, the question of water quality isn't so much a factor (and it's probably even less of a factor in NZ, which I believe has the world's highest quality tap water).

Basically I have no problem with Clover Moore banning bottled water for her staff in Sydney (CM is the Lord Mayor of Sydney). After all, it's expensive... and I don't see why they can't just pour a glass of water from the tap.

But banning it outright for private citizens? I don't know. It certainly wouldn't work in a non-rural area because you could just go one suburb over to get bottled water.

I guess if one town somewhere in a rural area decides that they don't want it anymore, that's fine. I'd probably suggest though that rather than banning it, people can just stop buying it.[/font]

[Nathan]

[FONT="Arial"][QUOTE=James][font=franklin gothic medium]Secondly, the debate about bottled versus tap water is fundamentally different in Australia, where the quality of our tap water is of a very high standard. In fact, in most places, the quality of tap water is [i]better[/i] than what you'd get in a bottle.

So for us, the question of water quality isn't so much a factor (and it's probably even less of a factor in NZ, which I believe has the world's highest quality tap water).[/font][/QUOTE]Here in the US, it depends on where you live, literally. Part of what makes it so fundamentally stupid here in Utah, especially where I live, which is in SLC, Utah... Is one of the companies that provides water for the government offices, gets it from the mountains here, which is the [I]exact same place[/I] where the city gets it from.

We have excellent water here so it's beyond stupid to pay for some company to bottle it and bring it into the buildings when the same water comes straight out of the tap. There might be a small difference, but not enough to justify the expense. It's a complete and total waste of money.

I can't speak for other states, since I'd need to look into their quality of water and so forth, but I can for where I live. It's an unnecessary and pointless expense.[/FONT]

[Raiha]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Having just returned to the states from overseas I can safely say that banning bottled water would be the death of most travelers of foreign countries.

I spent two weeks in the Philippines obliged to brush my teeth with bottled water so I wouldn't get the amoeba and other bacterial infections from the entirely non potable water that comes out of the taps. In the shower, I had to keep my mouth firmly shut so no water could get in that way. After washing my hands I had to make sure I didn't use them to convey anything to my mouth before they were dry. And the story is the exact same in China, where I spent another week.

Banning bottled water however as part of an unnecessary taxpayer burden at government meetings is an entirely different enchilada.

Plus, as someone from California I can safely say that there are times in which the tap water Tastes. Like. ***. The algae in the water supply blooms out of control in the summer time which radically alters the taste of the tap water, even if you DO filter it at home through a tank. And while some people prefer to be screwed by the Britta water filter company, I find it's a great deal more convenient to buy cases of smart water and pile them up in the trunk of my car.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Retribution]

[quote name='Raiha'][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Having just returned to the states from overseas I can safely say that banning bottled water would be the death of most travelers of foreign countries.

I spent two weeks in the Philippines obliged to brush my teeth with bottled water so I wouldn't get the amoeba and other bacterial infections from the entirely non potable water that comes out of the taps. In the shower, I had to keep my mouth firmly shut so no water could get in that way. After washing my hands I had to make sure I didn't use them to convey anything to my mouth before they were dry. And the story is the exact same in China, where I spent another week.

Banning bottled water however as part of an unnecessary taxpayer burden at government meetings is an entirely different enchilada.

Plus, as someone from California I can safely say that there are times in which the tap water Tastes. Like. ***. The algae in the water supply blooms out of control in the summer time which radically alters the taste of the tap water, even if you DO filter it at home through a tank. And while some people prefer to be screwed by the Britta water filter company, I find it's a great deal more convenient to buy cases of smart water and pile them up in the trunk of my car.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[font=Arial]I don't think I've ever agreed with you on matters like these (i.e. the role of gov't). But this is certainly the first time I've agreed with 100% of your post.

Can't really add much to it than "...yeah, what she said."[/font]

[Sabrina]

[FONT="Tahoma"][quote name='Raiha][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Banning bottled water however as part of an unnecessary taxpayer burden at government meetings is an entirely different enchilada.[/FONT'][/COLOR][/quote]This. I think banning it for people who choose to buy it is stupid, but for government meetings, it's an expense we don't need to be paying.[/FONT]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR="Indigo"][FONT="Arial"]I pretty much agree with the sentiment that banning bottled water from government meetings/buildings is fine. The other, I would find rather stupid. The few times I travel, I end up getting bottled water since other choices with carbonation, make me sick, literally. So no bottled water for trips, would a pain in the butt. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[Allamorph]

[FONT=Arial]You mean you won't even drink a Gatorade or a fruit punch sort of thing?

What a weirdo. :p[/FONT]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR="Indigo"][FONT="Arial"]Don't care for the taste. It's like drinking flavored water. Poorly flavored water at that. :p[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Allamorph]

[FONT=Arial]And here I always thought flavored water was the one that was poorly flavored. Like drinking out of a bottle you forgot to rinse out beforehand. Ugh.

Except for strawberry water. That one always tastes like water and strawberry [I]leaves[/I]. Which is worse.[/FONT]

[Rachmaninoff]

[quote name='Allamorph][FONT=Arial]Except for strawberry water. That one always tastes like water and strawberry [I]leaves[/I']. Which is worse.[/FONT][/quote]That stuff is just nasty. I cant help but laugh when I see someone drinking it. Tap water is much better. =P