National Health Care

[spy46]

that depends on how your system gets set up.

if its all payed for by taxes, then it will never be short on moeny because almost every one payes taxes right?

so that means you could get more Drs and that would mean less waiting.

quality of care, if the government is watching, i would THINK that would mean that the quality would go up, but that could also be a budget thing too.

[Sabrina]

[FONT="Tahoma"]To be honest, I'm disappointed that there is so much opposition to improving our health care system. I have what's known as a bicuspid aortic valve and though regular treatment keeps it from being an issue, getting insurance on my own, is difficult since no one wants to cover my yearly visits to a heart specialist or the medications that I have to take.

If not for my parents keeping me insured since I'm a student, I would have none. The college does offer insurance for students, but it does not cover any pre-existing conditions, at all. It's only good for unexpected illnesses. So that kind of deal wouldn't cover the regular care that I need.

When I finish school, I plan on working, but if I can't find something I would be out of luck buying insurance on my own. Again, for the pre-existing condition issue since companies you purchase it from can and do turn people down.

However, unlike others, I am at least fortunate enough that my parents would employ me in the family business if I couldn't find something, if only to make sure I'm still insured in case something comes up.[/FONT]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Boo'][size=1][IMG]http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/4967/outrageous.jpg[/IMG]

Thought was funny.[/size][/QUOTE]

[color=#9933ff][font=monotype corsiva][size=4]I thought it was full of win myself.

This health care reform thing is starting to get more personal for me. Because the father of one of my close friends is going through some serious health problems right now and their insurance won't cover the whole cost of flying him from New York to Ohio (her parents had to drive there last week!) or the hospital stay or the transplant that's a whopping 10 grand. If they can't come up with the money he gets bumped down the list. So her family has to do a lot of local fund raisers to get money to prove to the hospital and the insurance companies that they can afford to pay for a lot of this surgery and the other procedures out of pocket.

Sorry but that is just BS. It's inconceivable to me that in this nation a person can be denied a live saving treatment because they can't afford it. We need to do something about it.[/color][/font][/size]

[Rachmaninoff]

This makes me want to bang my head on my desk:

[URL="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32679571/ns/politics-health_care_reform"][U]Finger bitten off during health care protest[/U][/URL]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Rachmaninoff']This makes me want to bang my head on my desk:

[URL="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32679571/ns/politics-health_care_reform"][U]Finger bitten off during health care protest[/U][/URL][/QUOTE]

[color=#9933ff][font=monotype corsiva][size=4]The part about the man's finger not being re-attached (read this in the local paper) made me shake my head. Also why point out that the guy had Medicaid?


The saddest thing right now is that [B]twenty thousand [/B] Americans die each year because they can't afford health care and [B]seven hundred thousand [/B]Americans go into bankruptcy every year because they can't afford their medical bills. And yet there's people getting into fist fights over health care reform. AMERICA WTF?![/color][/font][/size]

[Horendithas]

[FONT="Arial"][COLOR="Indigo"]What's amusing about that paticular article Darren, is how the one against it, is in fact insured through Medicare. I have to wonder just how against it he would be if he didn't have that insurance. I think it's pretty easy to object to something when you're safely in the net of having insurance yourself and thusly unaffected by whether or not the reform happens.

And what makes me laugh the most is one of my relatives, who has severe Rheumatoid Arthritis, is living with relatives because she can't work and hasn't managed to get on disability, and yet she's 100% against the reform because it might not cover some of the treatments she gets.

This attitude totally gets a WTF reaction out of me and others since she has no insurance at all so it's not being covered anyway. So she's whining about something that is completely irrelevant. If it passed, the insurance would have covered all sorts of things even if it didn't cover that one procedure.

Right now her family is paying for her care, so in my opinion, she's a moron to object over something like that. But then most of the time, she never makes any sense anyway, but still.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[Nathan]

[FONT="Arial"][I]*looks at the previous post* [/I] :therock:

I think someone needs to read up a bit before making inaccurate statements like that. Here's a little something to get you started too.

[URL="http://www.newsweek.com/id/214254?tid=relatedcl"][U]The Five Biggest Lies in the Health Care Debate[/U][/URL][/FONT]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Japan_86']Doctors and nurses risk their lives every day to treat the sick and the hurt. If everyone is gets help then the hospitals will be over run and those in the medical field will be paid close to minimum wage. People will be turned away or old people and those who are too expensive to care for will be given a euthanize pill.[/QUOTE]

:animestun [color=#9933ff][font=monotype corsiva][size=4] I'm with Nathan on this and wishing Lee wasn't at his dad's this weekend with no computer access.

When I read this this morning on my phone my first inclination was to bang my head repeatedly on a wall. But my co workers already think I'm crazy so I didn't do that.

My second inclination was to seriously doubt your sanity, but I'm nice and I kinda know you so I didn't. So I'm just gonna shake my head and hope that this post is articulate since I've just finished 13hrs of work- most of them being yelled at.

Japan, the US has more than enough doctors to take care of all the citizens in the country yet for some reason we don't. In other[B]INDUSTRIALIZED [/B] nations doctors are given incentives for the patients they see rather than the patients they turn away as they are here. In fact they'd be paid [B]MORE[/B] than they are now.

As for nurses- all nurses from CNAs to RNs would be paid more as well especially if they were government employees. For example Lee's (Spy46) mom works as a CNA up in British Columbia and makes 27$ an hour. She's also considered a government employee because of Canada's National Health care and gets the same benefits as Canada's other government employees. Also she gets extra time off for any overtime worked. That could just be the nursing home she works at. As opposed to my co-workers at the nursing home I work at where the CNAs make a little over 10$ an hour which is pretty damn sad considering how hard they work. The activities directors make more! Also, I'd like to make a note that I'm in the medical feild and I make just above minimum wage. I have to work two jobs and live with my parents in order to pay my bills and fulfill my basic needs and my daughter's. Shouldn't I be allowed to make more money too?

While I'm on Canada- since this is the system I'm most familiar with let's talk nursing homes and end of life care (Hospice and Paliative care). The nursing homes there are either private pay or government run and the government run ones are free thanks to the taxes you pay for national and provincial health care as opposed to the ones here that can run from 10K (for the ones that look like an institution) to over 20k a year and trust me you do get what you pay for.

Also this stupid Euthinasia idea has got to stop. Assisted suicide which [B]is only legal in Oregon[/B] for those of you who may want to know has never been mentioned on the bill. There would still be the poor underpaid HHAs who would be recuited by their agencies to be Hospice Aides and give comfort to people in their last days or months. Trust me though I don't blame some people who have no hope of recovery want to kill themselves. I was a home health assistant for two years and had about fifteen hospice cases. Nothing looks worse and is more painfull than a stage 3 or 4 decube ulcer on your pressure points that has to be cleaned out by your CHN every other day. The fact that your body can't heal itsself only makes thigs worse and even a morphine pump doesn't help releive all the pain. But the idea that our government would willingly sign into law a bill that allowed killing of the sick and elderly is completely ludacris.

Sorry for that last one- I've worked in the lower paid side of health care for three years and seen quite a bit from my experiance.[/color][/font][/size]

[SunfallE]

[FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"][COLOR="RoyalBlue"]Actually the concept of a death panel deciding who lives or dies, is a complete and utter lie. Like it says in the article Nathan linked to:[quote]This lie springs from a provision in the House bill to have Medicare cover optional counseling on end-of-life care for any senior who requests it. This means that any patient, terminally ill or not, can request a special consultation with his or her physician about ventilators, feeding tubes, and other measures.[/quote]There is a fundamental difference between euthinasia and what's also known as setting up a living will. My grandmother, who passes away last year, had dementia and I was required to become her legal guardian so I could take care of her bills and make the decisions she was no longer capable of making. including the counseling to set things up that they are talking about. I did this based on what my grandmother had expressly said, many times as she got older, that she did not want to be hooked up to machines. Things like that.

This counseling that the opponents keep trying to push as death panels, is nothing more than covering counseling for choosing how someone wishes their care to be done should something like a heart failure happen. You can opt to have on your file that should that happen, no effort will be made to start your heart again, or if you require life support, you can choose the option of them not being allowed to do this.

I had to resign a form, every year that I was her legal guardian, indicating that her wishes to not be revived or put on life support was how her family wished for her care to be handled should she become terminally ill. I really wish people would actually take the time to learn just what the counseling is for, instead of assuming it's a death panel that decides who lives, when nothing could be further from the truth. [/COLOR][/FONT]

[spy46]

The thing that people have to think about is not the small little picture that they have just them self in, but the entire picture.

1: people are going on and on about the health plan and every thing with out understanding EXACTLY what it is and what it would do.

granted i dont know it 100% ether, i only know MY system.

some say that they should not have to pay for some one elses health coverage, then why do you pay for the police and fire departments?

why them and not health care?

if its because you dont want to pay for helping to save the life of some one else, BUY your own security guards to sit out side your house, to follow you in another car, to follow your family etc etc.

security is taken care of, now what about the fire departments, guess you will just have to buy your own personal fire department, fire trucks etc.

any one want to guess what the bill for that one would be?

i mean sure some of you might have some coverage under some thing, for now at least, but what about tomorrow or the next day, what if you lose your job and so on and you nolonger have any coverage.

from what i understood of the Obama plan, you can keep your company coverage, but you would also get this government coverage too and what not.