Discuss The Great Rebellion – Summit

[Timber]

[COLOR=Green][SIZE=1]Hm... I didn't think of it last night, and I'm not entirely sure how useful it is, but if the east (Mahogany Town side) exist of Ecruteak isn't blocked off, there's the Mt. Mortar cave, which is just east of the city, which could potentially be used to shelter any civilians that could be evacuated.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Horendithas]

[FONT="Arial"][COLOR="Indigo"]Considering the time constraints, it would make sense for Morty to implement a suggestion like Timber just brought up. If the city was surrounded for the most part, attempting to move civilians out in full could be taken in the wrong light.

There is also the issue of just how much manpower he would actually have to effectively evacuate people and yet still leave the city defended. So I would think either they're holding out in schools like Beth mentioned or off in the cave that Timber suggested. [/COLOR][/FONT]

[Korey]

[FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"][SIZE="1"][COLOR="Navy"]Uhm, but the city happens to be, y'know....surrounded. How do you evacuate civilians when your town is surrounded? Even east where Mt. Mortar is, that's where the League would be.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[The Spectacular Professor]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]I smell potential defending the innocent angst.

Which I'm totally fine with, so long as it's done right.[/FONT]

[Horendithas]

[FONT="Arial"][COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='Korey][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"][SIZE="1"][COLOR="Navy"]Uhm, but the city happens to be, y'know....surrounded. How do you evacuate civilians when your town is surrounded? Even east where Mt. Mortar is, that's where the League would be.[/COLOR][/SIZE'][/FONT][/quote]The real question is do they actually have enough people there to completely surround the place that tightly. Moving a force that large and getting there without being detected until nearly the last moment, would mean that there is likely to be holes in just how surrounded they really are.

Since I don't see the other side as the type to just cut them down, I would imagine seeing women and children moving out, would be ignored. Well ignored in that other than to report it, they wouldn't move to stop it. Unlike seeing those who are obviously trainers and such. That would trigger a different response. These guys are taking over, but unless I'm reading it wrong, they're not dumb enough to interfere with civilians getting out of the way.[QUOTE=Ace][FONT="Comic Sans MS"]I smell potential defending the innocent angst.

Which I'm totally fine with, so long as it's done right.[/FONT][/QUOTE]Unless the League is unbelievably stupid, I don't see them doing anything to civilians who stay out of the fight. My impression, based on conversations with Kei and Allamorph, is that those who are not a threat or not truly involved, will not be attacked. So I don't see any defend the innocent angst coming up. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, oh ceiling or basement kitteh. =P[/COLOR][/FONT]

[Allamorph]

[quote name='Indi][FONT="Arial"][COLOR="Indigo"]The real question is do they actually have enough people there to completely surround the place that tightly.[/COLOR'][/FONT][/quote]
[FONT=Calibri]Yes.

[quote name='Indi][FONT="Arial"][COLOR="Indigo"]Unless the League is unbelievably stupid, I don't see them doing anything to civilians who stay out of the fight. My impression, based on conversations with Kei and Allamorph, is that those who are not a threat or not truly involved, will not be attacked.[/COLOR'][/FONT][/quote]
Attacked? No. But they [I]will[/I] be subdued; Bugsy doesn't take chances, and he does take prisoners.

Another discussion earlier this evening produced a plan. I will be discussing it with the concerned parties later.

Thanks for the input, guys. I appreciate it. Keep up the chatter.[/FONT]

[Horendithas]

[FONT="Arial"][COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='Allamorph][FONT=Calibri]Yes.[/FONT][/QUOTE]Right, then in the city I would say. Something along the lines of what Beth suggested. In schools or some other out of the way location.[QUOTE=Allamorph][FONT=Calibri]Attacked? No. But they [I]will[/I'] be subdued; Bugsy doesn't take chances, and he does take prisoners.[/FONT][/quote]That's what I was trying to get at. That they wouldn't just blatantly attack them. Naturally it makes sense that he make sure they aren't a threat. He would be foolish to do otherwise. [/COLOR][/FONT]

[CaNz]

most people have houses, it wouldnt be hard for them to just stay inside, but since they have warning maybe they would all group together and the rebellion could send a group to break the line and give the civilians a chance to escape. of course it wouldnt be much of a reason to save the city if the people in it all flee..

what about if most the civilians go to a gym or pokemon center... and supporters of the league stay at home and fly a flag with the league symbol on it. as they would not want to associate with the rebellion and they trust the league.

[The Spectacular Professor]

[quote name='CaNz']most people have houses, it wouldnt be hard for them to just stay inside, but since they have warning maybe they would all group together and the rebellion could send a group to break the line and give the civilians a chance to escape. of course it wouldnt be much of a reason to save the city if the people in it all flee..

what about if most the civilians go to a gym or pokemon center... and supporters of the league stay at home and fly a flag with the league symbol on it. as they would not want to associate with the rebellion and they trust the league.[/QUOTE]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]I dunno, it's still a warzone. They may not be directly involved, but it's not hard to see a stray flamethrower igniting nearby homes. Shelter is pretty much going to have to be considered. And flying an enemy flag isn't exactly a surefire way to keep yourself safe. There's extremists on both sides, yes?[/FONT]

[Allamorph]

[FONT=Calibri]The better question would be "do you have a flag?"

[CENTER][IMG]http://videodetective.com/photos/660/002776_40.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]

No flag no neutrality. [I]*shot*[/I]

[CENTER]- - - - -[/CENTER]
But seriously, in reality that idea is rather unworkable. Again, as I've said to you on more than one occasion, the League isn't [I]actually[/I] a recognised power yet. So far in the history of the game it's been the background enforcer of rules and organisation, and has never really stepped forward politically.

They're just stepping forward [I]now[/I]. So I'm fairly certain they haven't sat down and decided to come up with a flag yet.[/FONT]

[CaNz]

i did not know that, i thought it was general consensus that the league was in charge, really the rebellion would not even be rebelling, they'd be preserving, the league is more like a rebellion then...

well. would anyone really guard the shelters if people went to them? would the publc recognize the "rebellion" if they said an attack is coming and follow their directions? maybe it would be smarter to tell them to stay inside and dhave an exit planned in case anything happens.

[SunfallE]

[FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"][COLOR="RoyalBlue"][quote name='CaNz]i did not know that, i thought it was general consensus that the league was in charge, really the rebellion would not even be rebelling, they'd be preserving, the league is more like a rebellion then...[/QUOTE]Says right in the sign up that the League decided to step in and take charge since the champion is absent. So though they are in charge, it's recent and they're moving to subdue those who object to it. [QUOTE=CaNz']well. would anyone really guard the shelters if people went to them? would the publc recognize the "rebellion" if they said an attack is coming and follow their directions? maybe it would be smarter to tell them to stay inside and dhave an exit planned in case anything happens.[/quote]Other than a token force, the idea would be to defend the borders of the actual town I would think. I'm sure the concept of stay put and out of harms way isn't hard to grasp. I think most parents with kids would insist on it.

So staying in one's homes or not organizing into designated shelters which, by the way, most towns already have in case of a natural disaster, would be foolish. So they wouldn't even have to figure that part out. There would already be schools or locations that are deemed shelters if needed.

If you know you're about to be attacked by an army large enough to surround the city your in, you'd be pretty foolish to leave people in their homes. The absolute chaos of trying to organize them if the opportunity came for evacuation, would be horrendous.

Which leads me back to my first suggestion. I think they're in shelters already with small groups or teams designated to keep an eye on them and help with evacuation if needed. Though at this point, that's likely to be to another designated shelter if the fighting got to close instead of out of the city. At least that's what I think.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[Kei]

[color=darkblue][size=1]At this point, yes, all the civilians are in shelters being monitored and protected by small teams designed for that purpose. They're scattered throughout the city, but they have a communications system to choreograph (for lack of better term) evacuations.

Beth is right in saying that it would be utterly foolish to let civilians stay in their homes in such a situation. It's too much of a liability because it causes you to overstretch your troops covering so much more area to account for residential neighborhoods. Not to mention the fact that people tend to be much more killable spread out in easy-to-break-into houses. ;p

So anyway, the civvies are safe for now.[/color][/size]

[The Spectacular Professor]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Alright, I think I have an idea or two floating around for my next post. Before I start, though, is there some kind of chain of command within the League, such as military rankings? I'd assume the Gym leaders are at or near the top, but it would be nice to know what qualifies as a commanding officer and such.[/FONT]

[GuyYouMetOnline]

I've been wondering about something, too. Telepathic communication has been included in a couple people's posts now, and psychic humans were mentioned in I believe one of Allamorph's posts. Given the existance of psychic abilities, I think it's important that we all know what varieties exist and what limitations they have (this is outside of the psychic energy used by Pokemon in battles).

[Kei]

[color=darkblue][size=1][b]Ace[/b]: Well, as far as a ranking system, you're correct in your assumption that Leaders are near the top. They essentially act as generals on the field and whatnot. Gym members themselves act as C.O.s to the general troops and senority dictates how far they go, i.e. someone who is time-tested and knows what the hell they're doing may make it so far as a brigadier general. It all depends.

[b]Gymo:[/b] Well, as far as psychic powers go, yes, there are people that practice psionics, but they tend to be scattered around. As far as uses... Telepathy is the most "common" and anything outside of that is rare. There have been records of telekinesis and even extremely rarely of pyrokinesis, but one has to be trained in that for some length of time and know who to train under for that purpose.[/color][/size]

[CaNz]

[quote name='Kei'][SIZE=1][COLOR=darkblue]Beth is right in saying that it would be utterly foolish to let civilians stay in their homes in such a situation. [/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][/quote][/COLOR][/SIZE]

I wasnt questioning which would be more practical, usefull and overall a much better idea... I was questioning the "rebelions" controll over the entire population of a town that surly must have some dissidents, I am just saying why do they even have the ability to controll anyone, given that like you say the league is just starting to take action so a countering force would be even more new to people.

And by the way, if you dont want stupid ideas, dont leave it open to public debate. I obiously dont know enough about anything to give valid input so I will just stay out of it... but I dont think I should be mocked for that whe everyone was asked to pitch ideas.

[Allamorph]

[FONT=Calibri]I would like to clarify something in regards to [COLOR=DarkRed]Gymo[/COLOR]'s query.

I have not indicated at all that there are humans with innate psychic abilities in large concentrations anywhere in my posts so far. What I [I]did[/I] reference in my first post was the fact that Sabrina is the leader of a gym specialising in Psychic-type pokémon, from which I noted that Saffron has an unusually larger concentration of psychic energies than anywhere else, really. Although I believe my wording (I haven't looked) had something to do with brainwaves, surely it is generally accepted that pokémon have brains as well. =P

Also, Saul is not telepathic. He is still required to speak to be understood by anyone around, so I apologise if I made it seem otherwise.

As far as pokémon go, my response would be to consider the matter carefully, and if having that critter use telepathy to communicate would require highly specific circumstances then I would advise not going that way.

For instance, I reasoned the telepathy of Ninetales because in the past they have demonstrated an acuity for psychic abilities (and can learn some moves of that type in the games). Celebi, on the other hand, I probably consider incapable of telepathy. Empathy at the most?which would make sense, what with her being the Guardian of the Forest and what.

Basically, think about it a bit. Whether you want it and whether it would be good are not mutually exclusive, but they aren't the same thing, either. =P

[B]Edit:[/B]
[quote name='CaNz']I wasnt questioning which would be more practical, usefull and overall a much better idea... I was questioning the "rebelions" controll over the entire population of a town that surly must have some dissidents, I am just saying why do they even have the ability to controll anyone[/quote]
"Control" of a town means that the Powers That Be are able to dictate actions and force compliance. However, just because the Leaders opposing the Leage at this point aren't exerting control over their towns doesn't mean that the citizens don't generally look up to them.

After all, if the Mayor of your city came on the television and the radio and advised the people that a disaster was imminent and informed them the safest place to stay, the majority of the people in your town (who heard the announcement) would act accordingly.

In this specific world, the Leaders have the advantage of being able to go around to the townspeople and offer to assist them in temporarily relocating to a safer location, which provides them the added opportunity to prompt those with battle-ability into joining?though I doubt Morty would allow strongarm recruiting.

Basically it's just a case of considering how things usually operate and translating that to the current environment. And it's not stupid to not think to do that. However, it isn't all that a great idea to get short-tempered when your ideas are continually shot down. Can't learn much of anything without being wrong first, you know.[/FONT]

[The Spectacular Professor]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Dude, CaNz, chill. We weren't mocking you. We just didn't think your idea was workable.

Anyway, thanks for the info, Kei. I think I have something to work with. Once I have something written up, I'll make sure to run it by you.[/FONT]

[CaNz]

maybe i am giving the wrong voice to the words, but it sure seemed like I was being mocked. "utterly foolish", along with a couple foolishes somewhere peppered in the actual post,"[FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode][COLOR=#4169e1][COLOR=black]which, by the way, most towns already have,[/COLOR] [/COLOR][/FONT]", and a "says right there in the sign,"

am i hurt by it... I just am not sure why I deserve it. I am pretty new to this, so I dont automaticly assume my ideas are golden, and I do understand the points against me, but I dont see how bashing other ideas serves to make yours better. how does pointing out how "utterly foolish" my idea is make the idea you propose better the alternatives?

[Kei]

[quote name='CaNz']

I wasnt questioning which would be more practical, usefull and overall a much better idea... I was questioning the "rebelions" controll over the entire population of a town that surly must have some dissidents, I am just saying why do they even have the ability to controll anyone, given that like you say the league is just starting to take action so a countering force would be even more new to people.[/QUOTE]

[color=darkblue][size=1]The reason that Morty has the ability to "control an entire population" is because in this setting, Leaders are essentially leaders in all sense of the word, at least in the cities that don't side with the League. The well-being of the citizens and what everyone needs to do has been placed in their hands. In the case of many of these Leaders (especially Morty), they are a very influential figure in the community and are looked to for guidance.

To put it bluntly, if he says GTFO, you're gonna GTFO. =p[/color][/size]

[QUOTE]And by the way, if you dont want stupid ideas, dont leave it open to public debate. I obiously dont know enough about anything to give valid input so I will just stay out of it... but I dont think I should be mocked for that whe everyone was asked to pitch ideas.[/QUOTE]

[color=darkblue][size=1]Oh, internet.

I am well aware you don't know all that much about the world at large at the moment; everyone here is learning about that at once (save for Al and myself). The only thing I was implying in that context was that Beth made a good point and I offered my own subsequent opinion.

I never once mocked you. Everyone's ideas are legitimate and appreciated. We're all here to discuss things to make the RP interesting and fun; that's what this thread is for. We hash stuff out because it makes for a better story when everyone is on the same page and willing to work together and play off one another. In the process, we're going to have opinions that sometimes may be taken out of context. =p

We will make good-natured fun. We will comment. We will discuss. That's what we do here. I'm sorry that you felt attacked, but that's not what I intended in the least.[/color][/size]

[The Spectacular Professor]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]You misunderstand. You're not the "utterly foolish" one. Your idea had its merits, but you didn't consider it fully, and no one blames you for it. "Utterly foolish" refers to the Gym Leaders if they overlooked such an important detail as civilian protection. You aren't a Gym leader and you're not in charge of the story bits pertaining to this kind of thing, so you can be forgiven for overlooking that.

Basically, the idea is a start, but not thought out to the extent that we can make it work easily. Some of the problems with it would make the characters look stupid to overlook, but you can't be expected to worry about those particular details because they aren't things that would easily occur to you (or even me) anyway.[/FONT]

[Kei]

[color=darkblue][size=1]Ace has got the idea, here.

Your idea was a seed and considering the way things are and will be, it wasn't entirely feasible. It's nothing bad on your part, it's just that it wasn't completely thought out. But that's why we're posting here: to hash things out and see what works and what doesn't. I'm sure everyone here is going to have one of those moments (myself and Al included), so don't get bent out of shape about it.

Live and Learn. [/Crush 40][/color][/size]

[SunfallE]

[FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"][COLOR="RoyalBlue"]You've misunderstood my intent CaNz as the others have pointed out. Mentioning that most towns have disaster plans, among other things, wasn't meant to mock you but rather to point out why the idea you presented was flawed.

That's what the backstage thread is for, to put an idea out so others can jump in and either add to it or point out what you've missed. It's certainly not meant as mockery but simply as my input based on what had been brought up already.

I would certainly expect you to do the same if I suggested something and you noticed that either my idea was missing something or had it's own flaws. [/COLOR][/FONT]

[CaNz]

well, my feelings are fully intact and will not need the figurative band-aid, I am just not one for that kind of debating. i was taking a swing in the dark and when i missed I saw all my mistakes highlighted. really I felt like more of an idiot that I was made out to be.

anyways, my issues have completly perverted the point of this backstage you were getting at... so we might as well get back to it.

saying that some pokemon have the ability to fly people to other locations (obviosly not as many as the games allow) flying creatures the size of humans or greater shouldnt have too much of a problem, also certain pokemon could dig and teliport as well. even a shelter like a school, hospital, and a gym would be more dangerous then a full evacuation. a leader could also see the benifit of focusing on the fight and not civilians as well.