The Most Awesome Non-Japanese Animated Works In Your Opinion

[Zen]

[quote name='Lunox'][font=trebuchet ms] I was going to mention my favorite American tv shows (Simpsons, Futurama, Venture Bros., Avatar) but got too lazy. But yeah, Venture Bros. is awesome.[/font][/QUOTE]

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Venture Brothers is the best animated series [adult swim] and America has produced as far as continuity, comedy, and originality is concerned.[/size]

[Nony]

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Still one of my favorite films to this day, I just adored "The Lion King" when I was a kid. As expected from a major Disney animated film, the animation is awesome. The music is amazing, even the scores (which I usually don't find too memorable in most Disney flicks). The story too, man; basically Hamlet meets lions.

And I love that my iTunes decided to play "Circle of Life" while I was writing this. XD

[Sara]

[quote name='Lunox'][font=trebuchet ms]Without knowing who directed them, my two favorite Pixar films were always Incredibles and Ratatouille. And then I watched Giant, loved it, and realized Bird directed all three.[/font][/QUOTE][font=helvetica]Oh man. You didn't see [i]Giant[/i] until that recently?

Isn't it awesome?[/font]

[eleanor]

[quote name='Zen'][size=1]
Venture Brothers is the best animated series [adult swim] and America has produced as far as continuity, comedy, and originality is concerned.[/size][/QUOTE]

[font=trebuchet ms] I wouldn't go that far. Venture Bros. is basically a new spin on a giant potpourri of earlier American cartoons/comics/etc., so it's funny and nonsensical but I still think the early Simpsons and Futurama are the best comedy animated series from the U.S.[/font]

[quote name='Sara'][font=helvetica]Oh man. You didn't see [i]Giant[/i] until that recently?

Isn't it awesome?[/font][/QUOTE]

[font=trebuchet ms] Yes, yes it is. :)[/font]

[Zen]

[quote name='Lunox'][font=trebuchet ms] I wouldn't go that far. Venture Bros. is basically a new spin on a giant potpourri of earlier American cartoons/comics/etc., so it's funny and nonsensical but I still think the early Simpsons and Futurama are the best comedy animated series from the U.S.[/font]

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I really feel like you're selling it short. If you watch the show, and watch it from beginning to end like I have several times (DVDs, yes) its such a deep, multilayered, and I would say, epic, show. Its so complex with references and homages that it makes, it'd be impossible to catch them all by yourself. And not just to old-school American cartoons and animation, but to music, literature, history, film, etc. I mean, seriously, there's a scene where Mark Twain complain to Oscar Wilde and Sandow (strongman, father of bodybuilding) that he's "been wearing the same suit for like, two months... it's gross".

Its funny on several levels and there are constantly jokes being crammed into every moments that you never get to appreciate on the first go around.

Like "Showdown At Cremation Creek", where David Bowie shows up to the Monarch's wedding with Iggy Pop and Klaus Nomi as his bodyguards. At first, you're busy laughing that David Bowie is an international supervillain. But then you realize that Iggy Pop is speaking in his own song lyrics.

Along with show's own mythology, which is interesting, deep, and complex on its own along with its referential humor, the Kevin Smith-esque dialogue, awesome action sequences, and great animation (for a low-budget adult swim show), Venture Brothers is one of the best shows on TV period.

I love Futurama, but I guess Venture Brothers is just so much more relatable to me, so I love it as such.[/size]

[sakurasuka]

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Alice in Wonderland is a personal favorite. Trippy and exciting, there is never a dull moment, and there is a wonderful explosion of color and music and nonsensical nonsense. Fun to watch when impaired, but surely a treat for the senses anytime.

South Park. Such meaningful lessons obscured by vulgar grade school students, pop culture references, and unabashed cartoon nudity.

Last but certainly not least, the Lion King. For the music alone. And Timon and Pumba. I actually named my cat Mufasa from the sheer awesome of the Mufasa-in-the-sky scene. Plus my cat is the king of the jungle. Don't mess with Mufasa.
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[rotlung]

It's kind of sad to say but Family Guy, Futurama, The Cleveland show, American Dad, the SImpsons, Venture Bros., South Park, and Robot Chicken are the "american animation" we have today. I'll agree it's funny and once in a while show some wit and humor but I feel like they could do so much more rather than copy Star Wars...

I personally feel the most recent animated series that is on par with Japenese anime is Avatar the last Airbender. The funny cartoons have really came down to poop and fart jokes for a long time. I personally don't watch any of them the way I watch anime.

Also what really annoys me is the quality of "kids" cartoons. If u watch Disney or CN or Nickelodin you know what I mean. Cartoons that look like a 5 year old drew them and heck every once in a while they even show how easy it is to draw them.... It just makes me mad at how they turn in into a cookie cutter for cartoons.....


ok rant done..... My picks for best animated series outside Japan

Avatar
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Samuri Jack
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[eleanor]

[quote name='Zen'][size=1]
I really feel like you're selling it short. If you watch the show, and watch it from beginning to end like I have several times (DVDs, yes) its such a deep, multilayered, and I would say, epic, show. Its so complex with references and homages that it makes, it'd be impossible to catch them all by yourself. And not just to old-school American cartoons and animation, but to music, literature, history, film, etc. I mean, seriously, there's a scene where Mark Twain complain to Oscar Wilde and Sandow (strongman, father of bodybuilding) that he's "been wearing the same suit for like, two months... it's gross".

Its funny on several levels and there are constantly jokes being crammed into every moments that you never get to appreciate on the first go around.

[/size][/QUOTE]

[font=trebuchet ms] Yeah, I know...but like you can find all of that in the early Simpsons as well, and probably on a broader level. Since Venture is obviously geared towards a more select audience, it's easier for its fans to pick up on the cartoon/fantasy/sci-fi allusions, but I don't think anything the Venture Bros. dishes out is significantly better than what Simpsons dished out.

I'd put Venture Bros. on the same level of Futurama or something. Both shows cater towards a more specific audience and are very intelligent, but early Simpsons dominates both of them.

I mean, I love Venture Bros., but would never believe that it's the best American comedy cartoon series. And in terms of cultural impact, which I don't know if you count as a factor, Simpsons is a giant that will probably never be topped. [/font]

[Zen]

[quote name='Lunox'][font=trebuchet ms] Yeah, I know...but like you can find all of that in the early Simpsons as well, and probably on a broader level. Since Venture is obviously geared towards a more select audience, it's easier for its fans to pick up on the cartoon/fantasy/sci-fi allusions, but I don't think anything the Venture Bros. dishes out is significantly better than what Simpsons dished out.

I'd put Venture Bros. on the same level of Futurama or something. Both shows cater towards a more specific audience and are very intelligent, but early Simpsons dominates both of them.

I mean, I love Venture Bros., but would never believe that it's the best American comedy cartoon series. And in terms of cultural impact, which I don't know if you count as a factor, Simpsons is a giant that will probably never be topped. [/font][/QUOTE][size=1]

Of course Simpsons' cultural impact was huge, and don't get me wrong, I love Simpsons and Futurama, deeply, but Venture Bros. just outshines it for me because it has an overarching narrative through out the entire series that is rarely broken. Even the most mundane episodes have some sort of connection to other episodes, and there's just so many unnoticed themes, allegories, and references.

I think the Simpsons are great for the broader audience that it caters to. But what I feel makes Venture Bros. the higher "art" is because it isn't pandering to any of its viewers, its an honest creation from the mind's of the show's creators.

Not to mention there's actual character development. Check out [b][u][url=http://toddalcott.livejournal.com/tag/venture+bros]Todd Alcott's LiveJournal[/url][/b][/u] if you really want to have your mind blown by how deep the show is.

Using a really bad metaphor, I guess you could say that the Simpsons are like Jay-Z, brilliant, but mainstream. Futurama is like Common, even more brilliant, with less air play but still with mainsteam acceptance. Venture Bros. is like Del The Funkee Homosapien, underground and made with an artistic skill that often flies over people's heads.[/size]


[quote name='rotlung']It's kind of sad to say but Family Guy, Futurama, The Cleveland show, American Dad, the SImpsons, [b]Venture Bros.[/b], South Park, and Robot Chicken are the "american animation" we have today. I'll agree it's funny and once in a while show some wit and humor but I feel like they could do so much more rather than copy Star Wars...

I personally feel the most recent animated series that is on par with Japenese anime is Avatar the last Airbender. The funny cartoons have really came down to poop and fart jokes for a long time. I personally don't watch any of them the way I watch anime.

Also what really annoys me is the quality of "kids" cartoons. If u watch Disney or CN or Nickelodin you know what I mean. Cartoons that look like a 5 year old drew them and heck every once in a while they even show how easy it is to draw them.... It just makes me mad at how they turn in into a cookie cutter for cartoons.....
[/QUOTE]

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You are insane if for one second you don't think that Venture Bros. is on par with Japanese Animation.[/size]

[rotlung]

[quote name='Zen']






[SIZE=1]You are insane if for one second you don't think that Venture Bros. is on par with Japanese Animation.[/SIZE][/quote]

Yeah I was just running off a list and grouped them in there..... My bad....

Venture bros does have a unique style reminisant of the old adds from the 50s. The point I was making is the overall quality of cartoons made by american companies is ******. It's extremely rare to see a show like Avatar or Samuri Jack that has good stories and good animation. Most of the time u get things like Invader Zim, or the Fairly Odd parents where the artist literally takes a couple minutes to draw the scene and characters. It makes me feel like they are mass producing the badly draw cartoons and saying it's a style choice.

[Zen]

[quote name='rotlung']Yeah I was just running off a list and grouped them in there..... My bad....

Venture bros does have a unique style reminisant of the old adds from the 50s. The point I was making is the overall quality of cartoons made by american companies is ******. It's extremely rare to see a show like Avatar or Samuri Jack that has good stories and good animation. Most of the time u get things like Invader Zim, or the Fairly Odd parents where the artist literally takes a couple minutes to draw the scene and characters. It makes me feel like they are mass producing the badly draw cartoons and saying it's a style choice.[/QUOTE]
[size=1]
I'll stick up for Invader Zim because Jhonen Vasquez is a really original and funny guy. But I understand where you are coming from. The problem is that serious animated series' aren't really popular with mass American audiences so they rarely get made due to ratings issues.

Shows like Batman: The Animated Series and Batman Beyond were pretty good about being both well animated and having a fascinating story line, but shows like that are few and far between.

But then again, you have to realize that most of the anime that makes it to US shores are the "Batman Beyond"s of Japan. Anime for the most part is pretty bad, but we usually get the good or successful ones over here. Yeah, its definetly a more popular and accepted medium over there, but its not all high quality goodness in reality. [/size]

[eleanor]

[quote name='Zen'][size=1]
Of course Simpsons' cultural impact was huge, and don't get me wrong, I love Simpsons and Futurama, deeply, but Venture Bros. just outshines it for me because it has an overarching narrative through out the entire series that is rarely broken. Even the most mundane episodes have some sort of connection to other episodes, and there's just so many unnoticed themes, allegories, and references. [/size][/QUOTE]

[font=trebuchet ms] I mean, I guess we'll disagree on things we disagree on. I believe the Simpsons writers, obviously very smart people, could have easily created a well plotted overarching storyline if they wanted to, but they decided that's not what Simpsons is about. But yes, Simpsons doesn't have that. I think that's because they're just different cartoons, not because the talent was lacking.[/font]

[quote name='Zen'][size=1]I think the Simpsons are great for the broader audience that it caters to. But what I feel makes Venture Bros. the higher "art" is because it isn't pandering to any of its viewers, its an honest creation from the mind's of the show's creators. Not to mention there's actual character development. Check out [b][u][url=http://toddalcott.livejournal.com/tag/venture+bros]Todd Alcott's LiveJournal[/url][/b][/u] if you really want to have your mind blown by how deep the show is. [/size][/QUOTE]

[font=trebuchet ms] The thing I disagree with here is I really doubt Matt Groening was trying to pander to anyone. I think he was doing what he loved, and wanted to reach a broad audience. I mean, I also just give Simpsons greater props because it was the pioneer that inspired all of the following cartoon series following.

I *believe* that the Venture Bros. is awesome, and so is character development. However, the differences here probably aren't due to some sort of mass media pandering but rather the style of the show. I don't think Groening or Simpsons writers are lesser artists than the creators of Venture/Venture writers. [/font]

[quote name='Zen'][size=1]Using a really bad metaphor, I guess you could say that the Simpsons are like Jay-Z, brilliant, but mainstream. Futurama is like Common, even more brilliant, with less air play but still with mainsteam acceptance. Venture Bros. is like Del The Funkee Homosapien, underground and made with an artistic skill that often flies over people's heads.[/quote][/size]

[font=trebuchet ms] And on that note, I think Jay-Z is just as brilliant and talented as Common. He just chose to present his talent differently. I have no idea who Del is, but I get your metaphor. I just don't fully agree with it.
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[quote name='rotlung']It's extremely rare to see a show like Avatar or Samuri Jack that has good stories and good animation. Most of the time u get things like Invader Zim, or the Fairly Odd parents where the artist literally takes a couple minutes to draw the scene and characters. It makes me feel like they are mass producing the badly draw cartoons and saying it's a style choice.[/QUOTE]

[font=trebuchet ms] Also, I never get it when anime fans rag on America's "bad style." I mean, really, most anime has the blandest character designs ever. I feel like some people fawn over anime style just because it's pretty and "cool" or something, but usually the character designs are incredibly terrible and boring as hell. In comparison, The Fairly Oddparents rocked their **** well. As far as background art, the average Nickelodeon animated series would probably be on par with the average anime. U.S. fans have their pick of the best Japan has to offer, which is why anime might seen more sophisticated. Animation is expensive- I doubt the Japanese entertainment industry has more money than the U.S. one.

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[The Spectacular Professor]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Actually, I'd say the real reason anime style seems generic and bland compared to some American animations is that there' s just not as much variation in styles. Western animation is full of different artists with individual art styles, such as Matt Groening and his buggy eyes and pointy faces or Butch Hartman and his thick outlines and enormous lady-hips.

Contrast anime, which is typically better in production value (from what we get to see over here, anyway,) but bears some tends to go with the same visual style for a lot of the shows. Not to say that there aren't exceptions, though. Akira Toriyama may have hit every storytelling cliche in the book with DBZ, but he's definitely got a distinctive style. CLAMP and their noodle-people are also pretty much identifiable from 100 yards away, too.

So yeah, my thoughts are that anime seems ugly and bland mainly because a lot of it is a lot of the same. Also, I think it's a bit unfair to judge a series' entire quality on how expensive it looks like the animation was. I still love to catch some [B]Fairly Oddparents[/B] from time to time (mostly the older seasons, though. Poof can go be the main character of a dead baby joke for all I care.)[/FONT]

[rotlung]

[quote name='Lunox']
[FONT=trebuchet ms]Also, I never get it when anime fans rag on America's "bad style." I mean, really, most anime has the blandest character designs ever. I feel like some people fawn over anime style just because it's pretty and "cool" or something, but usually the character designs are incredibly terrible and boring as hell. In comparison, The Fairly Oddparents rocked their **** well. As far as background art, the average Nickelodeon animated series would probably be on par with the average anime. U.S. fans have their pick of the best Japan has to offer, which is why anime might seen more sophisticated. Animation is expensive- I doubt the Japanese entertainment industry has more money than the U.S. one.[/FONT]
[/quote]

I was looking over the new season of anime that is coming out and I'm finally starting to see what your talking. Several of the shows have very generic looking characters with terrible storylines to back them up. (the one that made me ask WTF was one that a guy needed breatmilk for energy....)

I understand differant artist have differant styles. I used to play Magic and learned a lot about art from that game. I also met a lot of artists at conventions, and tournoments. The thing was even though each artist had his or her on style they drew/painted realistic people and places that made the game look better.

[URL]http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=109752&type=card[/URL]

This is one of my personal favorites and it look nothing like anime. Give me an animated series that is draw like that with a decent storyline and I'll watch it til the cows come home.

[Mannequin]

[FONT=Arial Black][SIZE=4][B]ALICE IN WONDERLAND!!! [/B][FONT=Arial]:^D[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Zen]

[quote name='Lunox'][font=trebuchet ms] I mean, I guess we'll disagree on things we disagree on. I believe the Simpsons writers, obviously very smart people, could have easily created a well plotted overarching storyline if they wanted to, but they decided that's not what Simpsons is about. But yes, Simpsons doesn't have that. I think that's because they're just different cartoons, not because the talent was lacking.[/font]



[font=trebuchet ms] The thing I disagree with here is I really doubt Matt Groening was trying to pander to anyone. I think he was doing what he loved, and wanted to reach a broad audience. I mean, I also just give Simpsons greater props because it was the pioneer that inspired all of the following cartoon series following.

I *believe* that the Venture Bros. is awesome, and so is character development. However, the differences here probably aren't due to some sort of mass media pandering but rather the style of the show. I don't think Groening or Simpsons writers are lesser artists than the creators of Venture/Venture writers. [/font]

[/size]

[font=trebuchet ms] And on that note, I think Jay-Z is just as brilliant and talented as Common. He just chose to present his talent differently. I have no idea who Del is, but I get your metaphor. I just don't fully agree with it.
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I'm definetly not trying to take anything away from Groening or the Simpsons as an excellent work of animated art, I'm just saying I feel that Venture Bros. is more "sophisticated". Not to say Simpsons isn't an extemely smart cartoon, I just appreciate the Venture Bros. approach more, even if its as simple as an aesthetic choice by both shows' creators.

Futurama is closer to my heart than the Simpsons, because it has a style more similar to Venture Bros. in its approach. I just personally enjoy and appreciate that style, the continuous narrative, the character development, and style of dark humor, more. Its just a difference in opinion and taste I suppose.

I wasn't trying to challenge your tastes or opinions, just trying to get you to re-evaluate your opinion of The Venture Bros., since I thought you kind of passed over it without a second look at what was really going on. [/size]

[Mr. Maul]

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[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=1][COLOR=DimGray]And anything by Don Bluth.

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[rotlung]

so i was flipping through the channels and came across a show that just had great storys and unforgetable characters.

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[eleanor]

[quote name='Zen'][size=1]

I'm definetly not trying to take anything away from Groening or the Simpsons as an excellent work of animated art, I'm just saying I feel that Venture Bros. is more "sophisticated". Not to say Simpsons isn't an extemely smart cartoon, I just appreciate the Venture Bros. approach more, even if its as simple as an aesthetic choice by both shows' creators.

Futurama is closer to my heart than the Simpsons, because it has a style more similar to Venture Bros. in its approach. I just personally enjoy and appreciate that style, the continuous narrative, the character development, and style of dark humor, more. Its just a difference in opinion and taste I suppose.

I wasn't trying to challenge your tastes or opinions, just trying to get you to re-evaluate your opinion of The Venture Bros., since I thought you kind of passed over it without a second look at what was really going on. [/size][/QUOTE]

[font=trebuchet ms] We just have a different view on what makes something sophisticated, and we can't change that. [/font]

[Mr. Maul]

[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=1][COLOR=DimGray]To me, sophistication in comedy is a complex thing. It doesn't come from the content being smart, rather, the "delivery" of it (not the delivery of the individual jokes, but of the show as a whole).

A comedy can be incredibly smart and witty with a constant stream of jokes one after the other, highly-developed characters, over/under/what/ever-arcing storylines, yet not funny at all due to poor delivery (90% of all comedies).

However, a comedy can contain dialogue and situations that, individually, are ordinary, unfunny, and completely nonsensical, with no discernible plot or story continuity, yet when combined, they become downright hysterical.


[URL="http://video.adultswim.com/12-oz-mouse/corndog-chronicles.html"]Par exemple[/URL].


Hilarious.






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[HopscotchEyelid]

Good thread. My favorite Animated show/film/creation made outside of Japan is Ed, Edd, n' Eddy. It's very clever, and has a very nice vibe. "Peaceful Mania" is how I'd describe it (the vibe). I always find myself impressed by the cleverness in it as well, even after having seen it a countless (not countless, just so intimidatingly high I have no motivation to count to) number of times.


Also, I should give mention to Tom and Jerry. The absence of verbal communication and the abundance of physical communication between the two is always an easy-to-watch thing for me. It makes me smile, not often does planned out humor do that, most of the time I'm humored by peoples mis-pronunciations, voice-cracks, those two together, or slip and falls (accidents), provided they don't get hurt or it's not because of an unfortunate condition.