Gaming Mass Effect 2

[Magus]

[center][img]http://www.estarland.com/images/products/22/33322/66677.jpg[/img][/center]

[size=1][color=navy]I don't feel like using the quote tag right now..

[i]Once again stepping into the role of the heroic Commander Shepard, gamers command their crew on a suicide mission in space. Players must assemble their squad from amongst the galaxy's most powerful mystics, geniuses, and convicts and lead them on a suicide mission to discover why humans are vanishing from the galaxy. The success of the mission hinges on the squad recruited and their loyalty to the mission. Shepard's future depends on it.[/i]

[list][*]Prepare for a suicide mission to save humanity
[*]Choose between 19 different weapons
[*]Devastating heavy weapons (that) can end a battle in seconds
[*]Recruit a team of the galaxy's most dangerous operatives
[*]Explore the galaxy - scan planets to uncover unique secret missions
[*]Train and equip your team to survive insurmountable odds
[*]Control your conversation with physical moments of intense action[/list]

[url=http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14235013/mass-effect-2/videos/masseffect2_gmp_90secboll_2_121609.html][u]Video 1[/u][/url]

[url=http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14235013/mass-effect-2/videos/masseffect2_gmp_90secboll_3_121609.html][u]Video 2[/u][/url]

While I've never played the first Mass Effect, I have seen videos, and the game definately looks impressive. I've been needing a little bit of variety in my rpg's as of late (although I'm suppose to be a break from the genre), and while I'm not much of a fan of western RPG's, Mass Effect just has interesting written all over it. The only game I played from Bioware was Jade Empire (I think that was them), and I did have fun with it. I even liked the conversation aspect of it.

Mass Effect seems to toy around with gun customizing, and I'm pretty curious about how that turns out. The only other game that I'm finding really interesting like this is Alpha Protocol (I'll make a thread on that one too).[/size][/color]

[Muad'Dib]

[FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium][COLOR=darkslateblue]Mass Effect definitely isn't your every day RPG, but if you're going to get into it then you should definitely play the first one. While I'm sure ME2 will have some sort of plot recap, it's just not the same as playing through it for yourself.[/COLOR][/FONT]
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[FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium][COLOR=darkslateblue]I'm extremely excited for the second game. In particular, I can't wait to see the new species (and new examples of existing species) in action. From what I've seen, Bioware has taken steps to make the various species' physical traits more apparent. For example, one screenshot showed a Krogan with armor that showed his upper arms, suggesting that there actually is something underneath it other than a disembodied head. I'm hoping they will actually show more of the alien physique in this way. And for completely non-perverted reasons.[/COLOR][/FONT]
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[FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium][COLOR=darkslateblue]I like that they've improved the combat as well, though if the videos I've seen are any indication, your teammates are still about as intelligent as trained rocks.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]I've had my collector's edition copy reserved for quite some time now, so I'm most definitely getting my hands on Bioware's newest RPG the minute it comes out.

Like Muad said Magus I'd definitely recommend you play the first game before you play the second as the former actively feeds part of the story of the latter depending on choices you made and aside from that it's one, if not the best sci-fi based RPGs in years. The story, characters, graphics and combat are all phenomenally engaging and my only gripe about the entire experience would be the inventory system which to be fair isn't something you end up using all that often over the course of the game.

One of the things about 2 I'm most looking forward to has to be the way the story actively reflects the character. Sheppard just felt a little too unaffected by what was going on in the story last time, although maybe I'm just used to the Good vs Evil systems that normally generate a physical response. [/SIZE]

[Raiha]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]I really don't know why everyone and their vaguely attracted to video games with blue people friends think Mass Effect is an RPG and only call it that. Considering you spend most of the game armed with BFG 9000s [or whatever the future of ME2 will call them] they're really leaning towards the FPS part of the gaming compass.

As such I won't dirty my paws with it, because I don't tend to do well when it comes to guns that don't have an extremely long set up time while your enemies patiently wait for you to lock and load. [Ask Balthier]. I tried playing Mass Effect once because I heard you could get some quality interspecies shagging in, but didn't last long enough because the part where you had to at least vaguely know how to perform in an FPS game defeated me. ...right away.

Like instantly.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[leapyear29]

what i heard somewhere that in the end of ME 2, Shepard can sees his father.. i bet the Illusive Man is his father..

[Drizzt Do'urden]

[quote name='Raiha'][COLOR=darkorchid][FONT=Times New Roman]I really don't know why everyone and their vaguely attracted to video games with blue people friends think Mass Effect is an RPG and only call it that. Considering you spend most of the game armed with BFG 9000s [or whatever the future of ME2 will call them] they're really leaning towards the FPS part of the gaming compass.[/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]

I think Raiha brings up an interesting debate with this. I've always wondered how they considered FPS games RPGs, now in a [I]literal[/I] translation for Role Playing Game you are taking on a "role", but with that argument you could say that any game is a role playing game in its own right.

I tend to like to keep away from considering them RPGs myself, even with "upgrades" and "choosing your own path" it really seems they just use the RPG tag to attract gamers.

All that aside I'm still going to give this title a try, I'm borrowing ME1 from a friend to play through before hand, but the hype on this game is to much to ignore.

[John]

Some people call it an RPG because they're too lazy to type the "A" at the beginning of "ARPG". A few call it an FPS because they don't know what "FPS" stands for at all.

[Kenso]

John is right. Mass Effect is an Action RPG. And there is no getting around the RPG part of it. You level, actively upgrade your characters through more than just better items, and there is a load of interaction with NPCs (not to mention the sidequests). If Zelda (which I love) can get classifed as an RPG, then Mass Effect most certainly is, as it contains far more RPG elements than Zelda ever has. It is not an FPS, plain and simple. Over the shoulder third person is not an FPS, and controls very differently from an FPS.

That said, I was not able to pre-order a Collector's Edition, which makes me angry, but I will be picking up my regular pre-order come Tuesday.

[Magus]

[size=1][color=darkred]I am definately liking what I'm hearing about Mass Effect 2 so far. I'm not much of a story person, but I do love me some character interaction/development. I say that because I'm not entirely sure if I want to play the first one anymore or not... "shrugs" (With people saying that the first should be played and whatnot) If I get the money we'll see if I feel like buying it or not. (I just might watch videos online of someone playing it)

Anyway, this game is getting some very high remarks. X play gave it a 5 out of 5 and Game Trailers gave it a 9.7 out of 10. Gamespot gave it a 9, and I believe IGN gave it a 9.2 or something like that.[/size][/color]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Just 2 more days. God damn lack of a universal release.
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[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]I'd love to play this, but I got the dreaded Red Ring of Death (finally). So my Xbox is collecting dust while I focus on my PS3 instead. Bah.[/font]

[silpheedpilot]

[SIZE="1"][COLOR="SlateGray"]Once in a while a game comes along and just sweeps everything else under the rug. It's the best in it's genre, or as a whole. A masterpiece among masterpieces.

Mass Effect 2 is not it.

Mass Effect had the distinction of being something you've played before, but had never played before. It was a healthy balance of things that worked well, and things that did not work well but in general the game was an incredible work of media.

Mass Effect 2 cuts corners here, takes liberties there. To me it feels like half of what the original Mass Effect was.

Granted, that's not to say it's a bad game. It's absolutely not a bad game by any stretch of the imagination. In fact it's a GREAT game that picks up where the original left off and ends leaving you salivating for more.

While combat has gotten a pseudo over-haul, the rest of the game seems to be lacking and it kinda feels a bit linear. A larger focus is on the overall story, and shooting things in the face rather than exploring and fleshing out the universe.

A shame. I still loved it but those are my main gripes.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Finished the game as of about 5 minutes ago after just over 32 hours I think, will be posting my thoughts on it later tonight after I've had time to mull everything over properly.

One thing I can say with relative certainty however is that this is a phenomenally good game, I have to agree somewhat with silpheed, it does feel more...linear than the first game and that does take away a fraction, and I mean just a fraction, of the expansive feel of the game. That said most of us hated the Mako missions from the first game which added a lot of that expansive feel, so I guess you just can't please some.

I also wish to say that [spoiler]Legion[/spoiler] has overtaken HK-47 as my favourite non-biological character in a Bioware game.

ME3 cannot get here fast enough, although I'll settle for TOR in the meantime.

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[B]I will try to keep spoilers to a minimum, but some may slip through so read at your own risk[/B]

Alright, have had a couple of hours post-finish to mull. I'm sticking with most of my initial thoughts, simply put Mass Effect 2 is a great game which doesn't just deserve a spot in an RPGer/Sci-fi fans library, it demands it. Building on the story laid down by the original, ME2 propels the player forward through a much darker, murkier gaming experience in the Milky Way galaxy. This isn't Council space, being a Spectre means nothing to the vast majority of people, you survive by your strengths, wits and skills because out in the Terminus systems that's all that's respected.

I can't fault the game from a story point of view, it's a Bioware game and rip-roaring roller-coaster rides are what they do best. I was a bit disappointed initially I wouldn't be able to reunite my original crew and go kickass against the game's main threat but ME2's cast are certainly worthy successors to those of the Mass Effect, in some ways I think they actually eclipse their predecessors as Mass Effect's characters always felt a bit...safe, tame to me.

There are some problems with the game however, just as there were with the original. As I said at the beginning, I felt the game felt more linear, more directed than the first one. Levels all feel designed to push you forward in terms of the mission, rather than allow you to explore at your leisure and push the missions when you want. A lot of the side missions outside the main plot seem to have been cut as well, again creating a less expansive feel. I think it's really summed up with the Citadel, what was once the main hub of the game reduced to 3 (and a bit) areas which really doesn't change or have anything go on with it which was tremendously disappointing given its function in the original game. I was actually quite disappointed with the way the story apparently played out from the original game and the Council's renewed refusal to accept the threat of the Reapers. The fact that Anderson seems to not even be a genuine part of the Council after 2 years felt off as well

Planetary exploration, one of the things I felt needed a rework from the original as all explorable planets felt the same and Mako was boring as hell to drive have been cut almost entirely. I admit to having never really liked the Mako, it never felt particularly good to drive, but it did add to the expansive feel of the game being able to just drive around an area. Replacing it with the shuttle/scanner/probe combo feels like a cop-out and with the latter two even more tedious and dull than before.

Combat has also changed for the worse, considerably. I felt the original combat system is Mass Effect was tight and well done, perhaps a tad unrealistic with the unlimited ammo capacity of most weapons outside of overheating but still good. The variety of weapons available is also disappointing, down hugely from the original game (and no, upgrading them periodically for ridiculous sums does not solve this problem Bioware) but my major gripe was the new heat-sync system which saddles the player with weapons with lower firing capacity and ammunition than firearms developed in the last 50 years and given the game is supposed to take place 250+ years in the future that's a bit of a problem. I do somewhat like the way armour was changed, the idea of buying components instead of whole new suits allows you to design something you like while at the same time having good protection/bonuses.

Character development (levelling up/skill progression) also feels much weaker this time around, with huge chunks cut from the original trees in favour of each character having only 3/4 main abilities. I imagine this was done to prevent characters from becoming clones of one another but it again feels limited. The lack of XP and credits from killing enemies combined with the mining requirements for upgrades serves to force players into seeking out side-missions for cash and levels rather than allowing a player to seek them out for pleasure and fun, again not a good thing.

Despite the fact the game is darker in story, I was somewhat disappointed that a lot of decisions are still very much black and white between Renegade and Paragon. Very few decisions force you to really weigh up the course of your actions, working out which serves the greater good (or serves yourself best). Given the lawless nature of the Terminus systems, drilled into us over and over in the original game as well as the player's association with Cerberus I expected there to be a greater emphasis on the grey, or having to make more consequencial choices (like Ash or Kaiden's death on Virmire). Indeed Cerberus seemed very much like a declawed beast in the sequel, despite all the ominousness surrounding them in the original.

The tie-ins from the original game were certain a nice touch. Having lost the contents of my hard-drive after move from 32-bit Vista to 64-bit Windows 7 I was forced to download a save-game online with similar choices to my own. It was good to see the consequences of choices I'd made but I was somewhat disappointed that quite a lot were limited to minor roles. Given the recurrent message of Rachni scout-ships being spotted, or Captain Shepard (Commander Shepard's mother) I was hoping for a little more than just messages or brief meaningless conversations. The way the romance of the prior game is dealt with was also a bit of a let-down, having romances Liara in the previous game I was rewarded with a scant kiss and rebuffed at the concept of rejoining the crew in a time of galactic need, made cheating on her with Miranda and Kelly a little easier on my conscience.

Those issues aside, and really they don't boil down to a whole lot given how much I still enjoyed the game I would still unreservedly recommend this game. This is a fast-paced, no holds barred story with some truly excellent characters than any fan of the original game should play. My one recommendation would be to skip the Collector's Edition, some of the stuff is nice, but I don't think it was worth the extra €10 I paid (and I stuck with the Blood Dragon armour throughout the game).

Personally with any issues I'm just going to do the Bioware fanboy thing and blame it on the fact they've been bought out by EA pushing for a sooner release date.
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[Brasil]

ME2 had the unfortunate pleasure of having to follow what was arguably one of the greater RPGs of this generation.

Mass Effect 1 was special because of how it straddled the line between WRPGs and JRPGs, combining the strengths of both, while avoiding falling into their many respective pitfalls.

For example, one of the strengths of the WRPG is player freedom. Most games give you a huge, open world to explore with little to no direction. The game is entirely up to you. Some games do this well. Fallout 3 is pretty decent. One could argue that Crackdown handles it well.

But some games take it too far...ESIV: Oblivion, I'm looking at you. When the player leaves the sewer, there's no real direction at all. You get a menu pop-up that basically says "Hey, welcome! You can deliver the amulet or just putz around. Up to you. We don't care." If you aren't in the right mindset, Oblivion breaks down right then and there. Your sense of direction disappears. Plot urgency evaporates. The game dumps you into a completely open world with absolutely nothing helpful to tell you.

Mass Effect avoided that WRPG freedom pitfall with a galaxy map, mass relays, and story flags. The player still has freedom to explore but there's a lot more plot structure to help them along.

That plot structure owes itself to JRPGs. I view Saren much like I viewed Kefka or Sephiroth: the reason why the hero or heroes need to step up and save the world. Villains like Kefka and Saren push the story forward. Their presence is felt all the time. They're more than just a name. They're constantly threatening you. Constantly in your face. Constantly doing something to piss you off or just outright horrify you.

Saren is a classic villain archetype and helps focus the game, uniting the heroes in a single goal.

One of the most poignant moments in ME1 is right after Shep has assumed command of the Normandy. You give an inspirational speech over the com, and as you're speaking, there's a shot of Garrus, Ashley, and Wrex standing together. That is the heart of the game right there: individuals with different backgrounds uniting against something larger than themselves.

And that is something ME2 lacks. Martin Sheen is great as The Illusive Man, but he never assumes the role of Saren, and wasn't really intended to. You come across a bunch of smaller antagonists, but nothing stands out. None of those smaller threats amounts to anything. That ends up hurting your squad. There are a lot of great allies in ME2...but they have no common thread other than Cerberus has dossiers on all of them.

I suppose that's another problem I have with the game. I grew attached to each and every one of my allies in the first game, but only get to recruit two of them here. If Shepard is going to be fighting supposedly ultra-powerful enemies, why recruit new crew members? Why not grab your old friends? I know I'd prefer to have people I'm familiar with if I'm going on a dangerous new mission.

That brings me to another point, come to think of it. I wanted Firefly instead of The Matrix. The first game ended on a great hook: Sheperd and his crew were going to hunt down Reapers. I saw that ending and got a Firefly vibe: Mal and his crew heading into the black to kill Reavers. There were so many weird parallels that it seemed like a no-brainer for the sequel. You could have a very dark and ominous mood. You could still have the suicide mission kind of thing at the end. You could still have the Normandy get destroyed. Basically everything that happened at the beginning of ME2 could have happened at the end of ME2 instead. Most importantly, we'd get to actually SEE/PLAY it rather than just watching a simple 40-second cinematic.

The third game could pick up with someone or something reviving/cloning you. NOW you'd have to figure out how to get your old crew back. Maybe some of them died. Maybe some of them want nothing to do with you. And sure, you might have to recruit some new blood to fill out the roster. There would be a lot more of a consistent feel than this really drastic jump from 1 to 2.

Further, it feels like there's too much of a jump in the skill system.

When I'd first read about their ideas for the new thermal weapons, I figured they'd tweak the overheating concept; your weapon still overheats and cools down normally, but now you have the option of ejecting a thermal clip to cool down the weapon faster. Kind of like the Ghostbusters game with its pack venting...the pack vents automatically but you have the option of doing it manually. The dynamic works really well there and I feel like it would have worked really well here, too. But no, apparently we needed something more like Gears or Call of Duty.

Functionally, this thermal clip system how they have it never feels like I'm dumping heat exhaust. It feels like I'm shooting actual bullets and having to reload a magazine.

On top of that, they could have done something better with the weapons. Having to devote skill points to improving cryo and incendiary ammo? Huh? I like that they made ammo types a power-up on the abilities wheel, but just because we have an easier method of switching between ammo doesn't mean we need to waste skill points on improving it.

Would it have been so outrageous to introduce modular weapons "By Cerberus"? You have one weapon that does everything? Four casing mods (Pistol, AR, Shotty, Sniper), two ammo slots, and keeping actual item upgrades?

Their goal was to streamline the upgrade system, fine. But what they did wasn't streamline the upgrade system. They just removed it completely.

Plus, MDK did the "one weapon for everything" pretty well. Kurt attaches his chaingun to his head and voila! Sniper rifle. On top of that, you pick up different types of ammo, so your sniper rifle can become a grenade launcher or a rocket launcher for versatility's sake. It's a great system that works stupidly well. And it's sleek/streamlined as hell.

I guess I just don't understand why ME2 had to throw out almost everything from the first game.

[Azukuriu]

[FONT=Palatino Linotype]I agree that there are many elements from ME1 that they did not include in the second one, but I do not believe that it detracts from the experience of playing the second Mass Effect, if you look at it from a different perspective.

In my mind, I view ME2 as a bridge chapter in the series. You must remember that at the end of the first game, the old Council has been destroyed, the Citadel is in ruins, and Shepard decides that no matter what he is going to go on this crusade to destroy the Reapers once and for all. He's high off his victory against Saren and the destruction of his first Reaper, and confident of his abilities as well as that of his team and crew.

While I believe ME2 could have handled their introduction better, what they were basically doing was showing what happened after Shepard and the original Normandy set out to wage their personal war. They had no set direction, and were still trying to find their bearings. In the middle of this transition period, everything goes to hell. The Normandy is destroyed by an unknown force, and Shepard is essentially killed, with his body being virtually destroyed.

Which leads to something else ME2 should have improved on but didn't. Before you truly begin playing the game in earnest, two years have passed. Two years where Shepard spends completely unaware of the outside world. During even after you beat the game, your still not completely aware of what all has changed, and that could give a player a sense of disconnection.

But the main point I want to bring to light is the Collectors. I'm going to assume that you've already beaten the game, so you already know about what the the Collectors really are and what their role is. While Saren led the geth against Shepard in the first game, the second Mass Effects shows that the they were never the real threat. The collectors were the true servants of the Reapers, and always have been. There is no central "bad guy" in the second game, because Shepard is going against an entire race of bad guys.

There isn't one centralized enemy to fight, because Shepard has made many enemies. What Mass Effect 2 tries to do is show progression of the galaxy and its inhabitants as a whole, but mostly the progression of Shepard as an individual. His entire perception of the Reaper threat changes during the game, for he begins to realize that the sheer scope of what he must accomplish is far greater than he first thought. Two years may have passed, but the Reapers and the Collectors still continued with their plans, unopposed, sowing the seed of destruction throughout the galaxy.

In essence, ME2 is basically a stepping stone for ME3, a way of moving the story along while trying out some new innovations within the game during the process. Despite it's flaws, and the lack of some great elements that made the first game amazing, ME2 tries its best to keep the series new and interesting. Though I will say that the lack of weapon customization has me really bummed. Hopefully they'll do something about that.[/FONT]

[Brasil]

Well, here's the problem with that. If ME2 is supposed to be a bridge chapter in the series, it would need to bridge ME1 and 3 together. It would need to take events/characters/story/etc in the first game and at least relate it to what's coming in the third game. Yet it doesn't. Think about it. Within the first thirty seconds of ME2, what happens?

1) The Normandy gets destroyed. You lose the ship that housed you and your crew throughout the entire game. The ship that Captain Anderson gave you to command. It was the most technologically advanced ship ever seen, the result of a joint venture between human and Turian engineers. One of the most important symbols of the first game is essentially erased in the blink of an eye. That's not bridging the series; it's making the first game completely pointless. All the time you spent with the ship suddenly didn't matter.

2) Your crew disappears and you're forced to recruit mostly completely new allies. If you wanted to keep Liara and Wrex? Sorry, you only get a minor interaction with them as you're embarking on loyalty quests for [I]other[/I] brand-new recruits. Being able to keep only two of your original crew feels incredibly cheap. It got me wondering what was the point of growing attached to any of the other crew in ME1, since most of them are getting thrown to the wayside in the sequel, with little more than barely-support roles and a few tiny lines of dialogue.

Does that sound like a bridging chapter?

Heck, a true bridging chapter wouldn't have disregarded almost everything Saren had been doing.

[Gavin]

[quote name='Azukuriu;849027][FONT=Palatino Linotype]In my mind, I view ME2 as a bridge chapter in the series. You must remember that at the end of the first game, the old Council has been destroyed, the Citadel is in ruins, and Shepard decides that no matter what he is going to go on this crusade to destroy the Reapers once and for all.[/FONT][/quote][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=1]That depends on how your previous ending played out, I saved the Council and Shepard in my game seemed to continue his commitment of fostering an galaxy-wide alliance including humanity, rather than under humanity against the Reapers.[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][quote name='Azukuriu'][FONT=Palatino Linotype']But the main point I want to bring to light is the Collectors. I'm going to assume that you've already beaten the game, so you already know about what the the Collectors really are and what their role is. While Saren led the geth against Shepard in the first game, the second Mass Effects shows that the they were never the real threat. The collectors were the true servants of the Reapers, and always have been. There is no central "bad guy" in the second game, because Shepard is going against an entire race of bad guys.[/FONT][/quote][SIZE=1]

Sovereign, Saren and the (Heretic) Geth were most certainly the real threat in ME1, if not for the Protheans disabling the Keeper signal Sovereign's plan would've played out exactly as he'd planned and exactly as each of the previous invasion plans had occurred.

The Collectors themselves were no greater a threat than the Heretics, both groups were working under the direct supervision of a Reaper (Harbinger in the former's case, Sovereign in the latter's), much like the Keepers. It's merely a continuation of the same concept that while individually potent the Repears are forced to use intermediaries and minions to achieve their ends. Of course given the ending, that's all about to change.[/SIZE]

[Azukuriu]

Both you and Brasil make good points, and I agree with some of them. I guess what I was really trying to say was that I believe the reason they destroyed everything Shepard worked for in the first game, as well as making most of the original Normandy's crew move on with their lives, was to show that the player (Shepard) cannot truly control what other people in the world do, even his crew.

In the second game, Shepard, despite the destruction of the Normandy and his temporary death, still retains his conviction. He still pursues the Reapers, even when most of the Normandy's surviving crew moves on with their lives. They gave up, even when Shepard didn't. You can't convince them to return, because they don't want to return. They've made their own lives since the attack on the Normandy, and unlike Shepard, aren't willing to put their personal convictions aside just to help you, despite their awareness of the threat. It sucks. It sucks really bad. But growing attached to your original crew and having them taken away makes the game more real. Sometimes, realism blows.

Also, remember that how you ended the first game, and whether or not you imported save data from the first game to the second, can affect certain important elements of the second game. As a default in ME2, the old Council is destroyed and a new, all human one rises to power.

Gavin, you had a completely different gaming experience because of this. All of my original game data was inexplicably wiped, so I was forced to play the second game with consequences that I didn't bring about. This gives us a different outlook on the game. Although I will agree that I made a critical error by saying the Collectors were the greater threat. We know that the Reapers are, but I was just trying to say that they take the place of Saren and the heretic geth.

[Gavin]

[quote name='Azukuriu']Both you and Brasil make good points, and I agree with some of them. I guess what I was really trying to say was that I believe the reason they destroyed everything Shepard worked for in the first game, as well as making most of the original Normandy's crew move on with their lives, was to show that the player (Shepard) cannot truly control what other people in the world do, even his crew.

In the second game, Shepard, despite the destruction of the Normandy and his temporary death, still retains his conviction. He still pursues the Reapers, even when most of the Normandy's surviving crew moves on with their lives. They gave up, even when Shepard didn't. You can't convince them to return, because they don't want to return. They've made their own lives since the attack on the Normandy, and unlike Shepard, aren't willing to put their personal convictions aside just to help you, despite their awareness of the threat. It sucks. It sucks really bad. But growing attached to your original crew and having them taken away makes the game more real. Sometimes, realism blows.

Also, remember that how you ended the first game, and whether or not you imported save data from the first game to the second, can affect certain important elements of the second game. As a default in ME2, the old Council is destroyed and a new, all human one rises to power.

Gavin, you had a completely different gaming experience because of this. All of my original game data was inexplicably wiped, so I was forced to play the second game with consequences that I didn't bring about. This gives us a different outlook on the game. Although I will agree that I made a critical error by saying the Collectors were the greater threat. We know that the Reapers are, but I was just trying to say that they take the place of Saren and the heretic geth.[/quote]

[SIZE=1]I had actually meant to talk about the vanilla game, like you I lost my savegame so I just downloaded one pretty similar to it to work off of. I actually really didn't like that they went with death of the Council and destruction of the Citadel fleet but of the two I suppose it was the one closest to the new darker storyline. Might actually play a vanilla game through just to see the differences.

I also actually somewhat agree with you about your old teammates (or some of them rather) not returning, aside from those in Project Lazarus you've been assumed KIA (well, you were KIA but that's beside the point) by the galaxy at large. It's only natural with your death your teammates wouldn't have anything holding them together and would begin to drift apart finding their own lives again, or finding new purpose in the galaxy.

Wrex had a completely valid reason for not rejoining you, without him, chances are the Krogan will be death entirely before too long. Same for Tali, she has responsibilities of her own on the Flotilla. Garus to me at the end seemed set to return either revitalised to C-Sec or join the Spectres (what happened from there I don't know). Ash and Kaiden are a bit more difficult, seeing as they served under you (although you flying in Cerberus' colours should give them pause) and I really don't like what happened with Liara (if only because she was my romance in ME1). Still given how long Asari live she may have grieved and moved on with her life.

That said, I do agree with Brasil that it seemed a bit forced with the destruction of the original Normandy, wiping the slate clean a bit too thoroughly for my tastes.
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[Brasil]

[quote name='Azukuriu']I guess what I was really trying to say was that I believe the reason they destroyed everything Shepard worked for in the first game, as well as making most of the original Normandy's crew move on with their lives, was to show that the player (Shepard) cannot truly control what other people in the world do, even his crew.[/quote]

But the first game is focused on Shepard assuming control. He leads the investigation into Saren on the Citadel. He becomes the first human Spectre. He commands the Normandy after Anderson steps down. His crew's dedication is unwavering. Ashley and Kaiden risk their own lives. Tali owes her life to Shep. Garrus wants to learn. Wrex even comes around, and there were a few choice moments where you weren't sure if he'd be loyal or not.

The second game is no different. Shep assumes control. Leads the investigation. Gathers a crew. Orders them around. They follow his orders, even when his orders are Renegade. The suicide mission at the end is the only part that doesn't perfectly follow that pattern, but then again, I also feel the suicide mission "where anyone can die" is NOT one of ME2's high points. Especially since it flies in the face of the direct, unquestioned player control we've had throughout the first two games.

My issues with ME2's finale aside, both games are all about Shepard being in complete control.

So for the intro of ME2 to imply Shep isn't in control is wholly inconsistent. It's basically saying "Hey you weren't really in control when you faced Saren but now you're actually in control even though you're just an errand boy now, following orders from The Illusive Man." It's unnecessarily convoluted and works to the detriment of a game franchise (and developer) that's prided itself on the player having a direct impact on the game world.

The far more likely explanation for the destruction?

Bioware simply didn't know where to take their story after ME1 so they had to wipe the slate clean and start over.

It explains the new crew, the new story, the new game format, etc etc.

Easiest way to wipe the slate clean was to destroy/ignore everything you did in ME1.

Oh, speaking of the story, here's why it makes no sense to me.

[B]One[/B]. A huge deal is made about the council (again) ignoring the plight of humanity.

Uh, what? The reason the council wasn't too keen on helping humanity in the first game was because the original council were aliens. It worked because we actually saw the council treating Shep like a primitive screwhead.

But the canon ending from ME1 is the Renegade ending. Where Shep lets the alien council die. Where a human council assumes control.

So it makes no sense that a [I]human[/I] council is suddenly ignoring the plight of [I]other humans[/I].

What's even sillier about it is how Shep's been dead for two years, has no idea what's been going on, then suddenly is able to tell Tali that the council is ignoring human colonies? Just because Cerberus operatives told him so?

[I]What?[/I]

It's completely incoherent. Why should we believe Cerberus without, you know, actually looking into it ourselves? Why do we automatically join Cerberus? Why should we trust them immediately?

Simply, we shouldn't. And yet Shep tows their line as soon as Martin Sheen tells him to.

It's super-lame. My Shep would have said screw them and headed off into Citadel space immediately. Any sensible commander would have, actually.

[B]Two[/B]. The Reapers needing the Collectors to reproduce.

If you're the ultimate force in the galaxy, having left advanced technologies like mass relays for the puny races to discover, why do you need or want a bunch of mutated Protheans to harvest organic material for you...just so you can create one or two more of you? If you're so technologically advanced, I'd expect you to have devised a better, faster method of reproduction that doesn't rely on a slow harvesting process, especially when that process can be so easily interrupted by some blaster fire.

Ignoring the plot-hole there, what disappoints me is the overall execution of the story idea.

The Reapers are impressed that Sovereign was beaten by a human, so they decide to harvest human DNA to create a reaper-human hybrid, something they believe to be a superior life-form.

Then why do we fight a Terminator at the end? This was the Reaper's grand plan? A T800? Saren was at least threatening. Saren's second boss form was at least foreshadowed by all of his biotic implants. But this...is a joke. The boss isn't ominous at all. It's just goofy. And the fight itself is ridiculous. We just take cover and shoot the eyes with heavy weapons.

Come to think of it, you could take the entire Collector's plot and jam it into one of those ridiculous Terminator arcade lightgun shooters and it'd work far better there. At least then shooting out the eyes of a large T5000 prototype wouldn't feel so out of place.

Here, though, meh. It just doesn't work and feels like ME2 has no real focus.

Plus, the thermal clip ammo system is really getting on my nerves. Enemies regenerate health faster than I can reload my weapon. Meh. Meh, I say. Meh.

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Wasn't the Human Reaper supposed to be ages away from completion though ? I recall Miranda (or someone) saying that hundreds of thousands, if not millions more humans would be needed just to provide the organic material to finish it, not even taking into account the technological requirements.

The Reaper was probably in the foetal stages, hence why a small group with heavy weapons could take it down when Sovereign needed several fleets attacking it before it was destroyed. I do agree it was a kind of lame (and predictable) end to the game though.

What I don't get though is that if they knew Sovereign was killed by the humans, why was Harbinger the only awakened Reaper involved ? Seriously you kill Sovereign and they act as if it's nothing and yet defeating the Collectors and the proto-Reaper invokes the wrath of the entire Reaper armada ? BS. They had two years while you were being put back together to get into the Milky Way from dark space, makes no sense they'd wait unless there's a 3rd active reaper who's been passing information back to the armada and told they you'd been killed and the Council had basically ignored the reapers again.
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[Drizzt Do'urden]

I have to say I'm not nearly as impressed with this game as I thought I might be. That's not to say I'm not loving the game after 10 hours of playtime, I will play through it once as a good guy and once as a renegade.

I have to say that I think, so far, the game is a good bridge for ME1. I think it still leaves many questions, and though I shouldn't have looked (since spoiler tags are sort've worthless in a videogame thread) but I did and now that I can see what I'm looking at It confirms that all the unanswered questions can be done in one more game.

[Magus]

[url="http://masseffect.bioware.com/"]Mass Effect 2 to the PS3[/url]

[quote]BIOWARE'S ACTION RPG MASS EFFECT 2 MAKES PLAYSTATION 3 DEBUT
The Highest Rated Game of 2010 Comes to PS3 in January 2011
Cologne, Germany â?? August 17, 2010 â?? Today at GamesCom, BioWareâ?¢, a division of Electronic Arts Inc., announced that Mass Effectâ?¢ 2, the highest rated game of 2010 for the Xbox 360® video game and entertainment system and PC, is coming to the Sony PlayStation®3 computer entertainment system in January 2011. The PlayStation 3 edition will include the full Mass Effect 2 game and hours of bonus content, making this the perfect introduction to BioWare's award-winning action RPG franchise.

Mass Effect 2 has already received over 70 perfect scores from media outlets such as the Associated Press, Eurogamer, MSNBC,com, G4TV and the Los Angeles Times, and is the highest rated game in the 15-year history of Bioware and the 28-year history of EA.

The Mass Effect franchise is an epic science fiction adventure set in a vast universe filled with dangerous aliens and mysterious, uncharted planets. In Mass Effect 2, PlayStation 3 players will step into the role of Commander Shepard for the very first time, leading a crew of the most dangerous special operatives from across the galaxy on a mission to save mankind. Featuring intense shooter action, a rich storyline, space exploration and emotionally engaging character interaction, Mass Effect 2 delivers an unparalleled gameplay experience.

Mass Effect 2 will be available for the PlayStation 3 in January 2011. For more information, please visit http://masseffect.bioware.com/ and follow the development team at http://twitter.com/masseffect2 or at http://www.facebook.com/masseffect/.[/quote]


This is good news for me considering how I've lost almost all interest in the Xbox 360 and I'm planning on getting a PS3 soon or later. (More than likely later) Now I just gotta hope ME1 comes along for the ride.

[Jagan00]

[quote name='Phenom' date='18 August 2010 - 11:54 AM' timestamp='1282132460' post='699580']
[url="http://masseffect.bioware.com/"]Mass Effect 2 to the PS3[/url]




This is good news for me considering how I've lost almost all interest in the Xbox 360 and I'm planning on getting a PS3 soon or later. (More than likely later) Now I just gotta hope ME1 comes along for the ride.
[/quote]

ME1 won't be on PS3 because MS has the rights to it

In all honesty people should just stick with ME on the 360 or PC because then you can continue the story

ME1 didn't just tell a story it let you shape it

People starting Mass Effect 2 without the repercussions of ME1 are missing seriously missing out

[CaNz]

the intro allowed you to shape a lot of what happens later on. and i am sure the transition to ps3 will allow you to shape your backround even more.... bioware is good with these things.