Gaming The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

[CaNz]

Tutorial Dungeons:
a lot of TP did seem a bit long winded, but i dont think that all tutorials in the series were bad. I liked the great deku tree, the small part in majoros mask when your forced to play as a deku scrub, the invasion of the castle in a link to the past. a lot of what your complaining about was just the way they tried to make the game more realistic at start. giving link a side job, as well as the kids in town following him around seemed to me like they wanted to make you feel like you were part of something. i equate it to looking for Sarah in OoT. the ass slapping monkey was just a bad idea... i thought the boss was stupid and felt robbed at the end of that dungeon, since other than that i really liked that first one. the search for monkeys so you could jump farther was a cool concept to me, and the boomerang that went to five targets you could click was an amazing looking weapon. (though not much more effective in battle). we can agree that they should not take the boss concept to the next game, but i didnt have a problem with the slower than average start.

Skill tree:
you've already got all the moves you did in the other games in TP. the bonus moves were just add-ons. your making it sound like they were incredibly hard to get, which they were not, and your making it sound like they were necessary to have, which they were not. this is classic zelda mentality. if you put in a little extra effort you get a little more. I really liked the additional combat devices. they didn't seem to burden me with constant uses (since i could just smack them with my sword instead of using them) and they were easy to do and remember. honestly i can see why zelda never changes much... this little addition seems to have been met with mutiny.

Gripes:
you can say all the good things you want about the other Zelda games and i wont be happy. TP was an enjoyable game and you should be able to say it. it had its problems like every game, but i wouldn't call it a huge step backwards, and id like to see some of the concepts brought into Skyward. It could use things like the epic horse riding, the crazy amount of heart pieces, and the wii incorporation for arrows slingshot, boomerang hookshot... i enjoyed all of that. Edited July 10, 2010 by CaNz

[James]

[font="Palatino Linotype"]I know this is going to seem like such a small point, but I think my biggest disappointment with Twilight Princess is its relative [i]blandness[/i]. It seems to have been the one Zelda that Nintendo was really trying to aim at the so-called "hardcore" crowd - but the result was to create what they thought was the epitome of a traditional 3D Zelda.

Don't get me wrong - Twilight Princess was undoubtedly a brilliant game in its own right. I think Brasil would say that too. I would personally put it on a similar level to The Wind Waker. TWW didn't really add a great deal in terms of gameplay, but at least it had a unique concept (sailing) and a very unique visual design, which I quite liked.

I'm not a huge fan of TP's art style, but I think its gameplay generally improved on TWW. So it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

I always keep going back to Majora's Mask, because, for me, that game really gave us a glimpse of what a 3D Zelda can be - I mean, beyond the standard that OoT set. The groundhog day concept worked incredibly well and it's actually one of the most clever and well-implemented systems I've ever seen in a video game. It was so central to the gameplay but it never became boring or, ironically, repetitive.

Also, Majora's Mask didn't seem afraid to really strike new ground for Zelda. When I think back to what it was like being a Zora...it was just sublime. Visiting each of the different parts of the world felt so varied, as well. You were really stepping into those different characters.

And, in general, I really loved the offbeat visual style and music. Even the general plot had this wonderful surreal element to it.

I know I will probably never get my wish, but I'd really love to see a new Zelda game that lives up to Majora's legacy - or that at least tries to go in a similar direction. As it is, I'm still waiting for MM to be released on Virtual Console.
[/font]

[Sangome]

[quote name='James' date='10 July 2010 - 02:08 PM' timestamp='1278788919' post='697058']
[font="Palatino Linotype"] As it is, I'm still waiting for MM to be released on Virtual Console. [/font]
[/quote]

[color="#9932CC"][font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]I just wanted to jump in and say that Majora's Mask has been available on the Virtual Console in all regions [including the PAL region] since April/May of last year. You guys actually got it one month before the US did. But yeah, it's there. :3 [url="http://www.nintendo.com.au/index.php?action=catalogue&prodcat_id=39&prod_id=19805&pageID=4"]Ta da[/url]

And I totally agree with everything you said about MM, but I think my current avatar and signature spoke that well enough on their own. =P

Although I [i]am[/i] definitely lobbying for a Majora's Mask remake on the 3DS if the OoT remake is successful [which I'm sure it will be]. That and the confirmed Paper Mario game would never leave my side once I got them. [/font][/color] Edited July 10, 2010 by Sangome

[James]

[quote name='Sangome' date='11 July 2010 - 06:37 AM' timestamp='1278790621' post='697063']
[color="#9932CC"][font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]I just wanted to jump in and say that Majora's Mask has been available on the Virtual Console in all regions [including the PAL region] since April/May of last year. You guys actually got it one month before the US did. But yeah, it's there. :3 [url="http://www.nintendo.com.au/index.php?action=catalogue&prodcat_id=39&prod_id=19805&pageID=4"]Ta da[/url]
[/font][/color]
[/quote]

[font="Palatino Linotype"]Oh really? That would make sense, considering I wasn't using my Wii on the internet at the time - d'oh. Well, I'm definitely going to have to download it now.

Although I actually agree with you that I'd love to see MM as a remake on 3DS.

My biggest question at the moment, though, is what other stuff we haven't yet seen from Skyward Sword - the actual E3 demo was relatively short and was pretty much limited to demonstrating the actual game controls. I'm very keen to see other parts of the world and to know more about the dungeon setup. Skyward Sword could still trump Twilight Princess for me, if it introduces further changes beyond just controls.[/font]

[Brasil]

[quote name='James' date='10 July 2010 - 03:08 PM' timestamp='1278788919' post='697058'][font="Palatino Linotype"]Don't get me wrong - Twilight Princess was undoubtedly a brilliant game in its own right. I think Brasil would say that too.[/font][/quote]

Possibly. I tend to look at TP the same way I look at RE5: there's fun to be had, but not when you place the title within its franchise.

As a stand-alone action game, RE5 is decently entertaining. The gameplay is functional. The combat is serviceable. The curb-stomps and other context-sensitive attacks add a lot to your character's repertoire. The game has a good speed to it. The front half of the game is pretty damned fantastic. Some of the set-pieces are fun to play. As a stand-alone title--one that exists outside of the established RE franchise, RE5 has its place...even though it'd completely bomb if not for the Resident Evil namesake. Had it used generic action heroes with generic villains, enemies, locations, story, etc., RE5 would have gotten completely lost in the shuffle.

But as a Resident Evil game, RE5 is massively disappointing, if not an abject failure. It functions more like a collection of Greatest Hits rather than a game that really understands why prior RE games were great. There's next to no atmosphere. The game is one long stretch of disjointed linear action sequences. Gone is the weird, dry awkward humor, replaced with overly serious dissertations on the nature of humanity. Wesker has become a complete ******* joke...he went from a ***** of a middle manager to some ultra-Matrix-leather movie villain but he's completely lacking Hugo Weaving's suave sinister charm.

Twilight Princess is a lot like that. As a non-Zelda game, it does some interesting things and could be pretty good if not for the Zelda name.

[CaNz]

well.. RE5 was fun in my book for one reason... hitting crocs with a stun stick...i would die a lot.. .but so satisfying.

when i think about tp compared to Oot... i cant see too many things tp did worse... I liked the story in Ooc better, but story never really mattered much. almost all of the negatives your bringing up were in that game as well for the most part. the graphics were worse, the controls could be touchy. (riding epona was a pain) the camra was decent but at times it would work against you. Taaht entire game was dungeon after dungeon. all the side-quests really were 100% optional. and your biggest benifit was the biggoron sword. (awesome weapon, but it got rid of the skill in combat of attack and defend, you had a large range and double the power.. your pretty much a god. at least the magic armor had its limits your wallet). I would easily pick Oot over Tp though... and i dont know why... but my only guess is i fell in love with that game. having it as my favorite for years and years has probably effected my ability to judge which one is better.

i not saying this happened to you... but it may have happened to a lot of people. (why tWW was a flop for the most part)

[James]

[quote=Brasil]Gone is the weird, dry awkward humor, replaced with overly serious dissertations on the nature of humanity. Wesker has become a complete ******* joke...he went from a ***** of a middle manager to some ultra-Matrix-leather movie villain but he's completely lacking Hugo Weaving's suave sinister charm.[/quote]

[font="Palatino Linotype"]Resident Evil 5 may have been lame in terms of plot, but it's really no worse than much of the series. Have you played Code Veronica, lately? The word "Ashford" makes me want to cry.

And CaNz, regarding TWW being a flop...I'm not sure in what sense you mean that, but for me, the absolute worst part was the Triforce shard hunting rubbish at the end. In my view that almost broke the experience completely - it was decidedly un-Nintendo, from a design philosophy point of view. Had they replaced that with something substantive, I think I would have liked TWW quite a bit more (not that I [i]disliked[/i] it - but issues like those prevented it from being as solid as its predecessors I think).[/font]

[CaNz]

i mean that so many people didnt give it a shot. (its storyline was not great but thats nothing new and they spent too much time on scavenging... but they were giving something new a try) basically i think that game was great. it seemed like all the people who joined zelda at Ooc thought it was rediculous to have cell shading. they just liked Oot too much and wouldn't give anything new a shot. those people are missing out but it seemed to have such a negative effect on the games reputation. I've heard people go as far as stating it was a bad game.
there hasn't been a bad zelda game ever (though ballad of the wind fish wasn't great even that drew my attention.)

[Magus]

I'm one of those that started playing Zelda when OoT came out, and I admit that I was iffy about WW when I first saw it. Not because of the cell-shaded graphics (I love cell-shaded graphics. Dragon Quest 8, Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne, DBZ: Budokai), but because of the quirky look. I'm a shady guy that will judge a game based on looks in a heartbeat... Eventually I did try it out though, and while I don't think the game was bad, I did lose interest before even reaching the 3rd dungeon because of the OoT gameplay formula. There's only so much repetitive gameplay I can take. (which is interesting because I'm not tired of DMC lol)

[Sangome]

[color="#9932CC"][font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]To show how late to the party I was, Wind Waker was actually my [i]first[/i] Zelda, and I loved it to bits; I had nothing else to really compare it to. I've been replaying it the past couple of weeks to refresh myself on it, and to see if I still like it many years later, after having played other games in the series. And I do. Hunting for the Triforce charts/shards may be long and tedious for a lot of people, but I enjoyed it for the simple fact that I love exploration. I love exploring the worlds in the games I play, trying to find little secrets peppered about. Given how you're forbidden from going anywhere else for a good first half of the game, being set free and allowed to do what you want to do was really rewarding for me. I expect to be in the minority on that opinion, but I still managed to get a lot of enjoyment out of it, and am still enjoying it in my replay.

As for the style, I love both the cel-shaded graphics and the general art style. It just felt right for Wind Waker. Taking out both the cel-shaded graphics and the art style would just sully it. I also love the general light-hearted feel of the game [and this is coming from someone who touts Majora's Mask, easily the darkest and most depressing game in the series, as her favorite]. Everything about it just feels right. It went on to be a Player's Choice title and spawn a sequel, and [i]that[/i] game spawned a sequel. I know sales =/= the quality of a game, but commercially, it definitely was [i]not[/i] a flop.[/font][/color]

[quote name='CaNz' date='11 July 2010 - 10:44 PM' timestamp='1278906271' post='697150']there hasn't been a bad zelda game ever [/quote]

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mHw5g55oC4"]o[/url] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNpLXo55yfw"]rly[/url][/font] Edited July 12, 2010 by Sangome

[Brasil]

[quote name='James' date='11 July 2010 - 11:26 PM' timestamp='1278905163' post='697147'][font="Palatino Linotype"]Resident Evil 5 may have been lame in terms of plot, but it's really no worse than much of the series. Have you played Code Veronica, lately? The word "Ashford" makes me want to cry.[/font][/quote]

I haven't played Code Veronica so I can't speak to that, but I have played nearly every other mainstream RE game multiple times, and while they all have rubbish stories, the better RE games always balanced their plot with dry humor, top-notch atmosphere, and Hitchcockian pacing. The two best examples are RE1 and 4. Both feature some of the most British humor in the series (Leon's "Your right hand comes off?" retort comes to mind), and RE1 is rife with dry, awkward, stilted dialogue that feels perfectly in place with the campy B-movie nature of the game. If the developers were trying to make a game inspired by George Romero, they succeeded with flying colors.

Along those lines, I'd challenge anyone here to point out any environments in other RE games that can rival the unsettling quiet of RE1's mansion or the dread we feel when we re-enter the village in RE4. The best RE games owe a lot to Hitchcock in that the real stars of the games were never the characters...the setting was. Look at Psycho or Notorious. Sure, Norman Bates was technically the star, and Ingrid Bergman was a center of attention, but they both paled in comparison to the amount of time Hitchcock took in developing the Bates house and Alexander's home. For Hitchcock, his settings were just as, if not more, important than his actors. And you can see that. He uses staircases like nobody else. He constantly revisits those locations, especially in Psycho and Notorious. In Psycho, we move up and down the staircase multiple times, and each time we're approaching it from a new, different psychological point of view. And at the very last staircase moment, well, it still makes a room full of 30-something college students jump. As for Notorious, the first time we enter Claude Rains' house, we're immediately awed by that long, winding staircase. It's a gloriously beautiful piece of architecture and it kind of puts you at ease. The entire house does. But what happens at the end? Through repetition, Hitchcock turned that austere staircase into something horrifyingly dreadful. Within 2 hours, we went from high society to high anxiety on the same damn staircase.

That was one of Hitchcock's strengths: turning something familiar into something terrifying.

The best RE games use Hitchcock's techniques to almost perfection. As you backtrack to the mansion for the first time after completing the guardhouse area, for example, aren't you feeling just a bit more confident that you may actually survive? You've got more ammo, a few better weapons, and you feel like you're finally clawing your way up the food chain. Hell, in the past few hours you've killed a giant plant monster, a mutant shark, dozens of murderous canines, a few spiders...quite the long way from relying on Barry to kill the first zombie you encountered. But even in light of all of that, what happens when you enter the mansion again? HUNTERS! At that moment, where you may have approached a door fairly confidently, you're now moving with a hint of trepidation again. Where you would have been perfectly fine going up that staircase, now you aren't so sure you want to venture upstairs, even though you've got a magnum.

RE4 is filled with those kinds of moments, as well. The tone of the game after the lake boss, for example. Prior to that fight, you're coming to terms with the combat...how to deal with certain enemies. You're (again) clawing your way up the food chain. Then what happens? John Carpenter's The Thing! Puts you on edge again almost immediately. Suddenly you're back down to the bottom and wishing you hadn't sold those flash grenades. ;-)

So, yeah, I won't disagree that RE has always had lame stories. But they had a lot going for them otherwise. RE5 doesn't.

[quote=CaNz]when i think about tp compared to Oot... i cant see too many things tp did worse... I liked the story in Ooc better, but story never really mattered much. almost all of the negatives your bringing up were in that game as well for the most part. the graphics were worse, the controls could be touchy. (riding epona was a pain) the camra was decent but at times it would work against you. Taaht entire game was dungeon after dungeon. all the side-quests really were 100% optional. and your biggest benifit was the biggoron sword. (awesome weapon, but it got rid of the skill in combat of attack and defend, you had a large range and double the power.. your pretty much a god. at least the magic armor had its limits your wallet). I would easily pick Oot over Tp though... and i dont know why... but my only guess is i fell in love with that game. having it as my favorite for years and years has probably effected my ability to judge which one is better. [/quote]

Graphically? Ehhh...re-play Twilight Princess in 10 years and tell me OoT's graphics are still worse. OoT has simple textures with simple polygons, which will age far more gracefully than TP, which looked dated almost immediately upon release. And no, I'm not talking "dated" as compared to PS3 or 360. I'm talking "dated" as compared to other games on the same platform. Nintendo picked a terrible art style for TP, because it'll show its age extremely quickly.

The controls could be touchy with regards to 3D movement and positioning themselves, but combat was and still is pretty damn snappy...and it's the combat I'm focusing on in my criticism of TP.

For the camera...I'd expect some shitty camera performance from early 3D. But shitty camera performance in Twilight Princess is just completely inexcusable.

With regards to the sidequests...I've always preferred the Blue Ring moments and not "official" sidequests. Give me a bag of bombs and a candle and let me discover what secrets lay hidden. That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Not the mask salesman from OoT. Not defending a wagon from attack in TP. I couldn't care less about that nonsense. What I care about is having a world open to me and being able to explore without being belabored by idiotic forced pacing. And in that regard, OoT ran circles around TP, because OoT was [i]not[/i] all about dungeon after dungeon. There was actually stuff to explore. Places to go. Sights to see. In Twilight Princess, if you weren't in the next dungeon already, you were on your way there. It was a terrible Zelda game. Maybe a decent action/adventure game. But a terrible Zelda game.

And frankly, if you were being honest with yourself, I think you would know the real reason why you would pick OoT over TP: because OoT is the better, more balanced Zelda experience when all is said and done.

[CaNz]

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa143/Sabaku-no-Gaara23/TwilightPrincessLink.jpg new
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt278/PandasQ/3413-zelda2.jpg old
you cant base a game on time it came out... nostalgic views just cloud judgments. there is a huge improvement in graphics. and compare tp to any other Wii game it looks great(wii doesn't have the same abilities as 360 or ps3... so your not being fair anyways)

as far as camera goes i almost never had a problem with it in tp... it actually seemed to work for me, even with the odd weapons that used the screen. and the only time controls was an issue was flying that friggen bird in the mini-game.
in Oot there were quite a few issues... like being forced to blind fire bombs because the camera would switch on you in mid run, or being stuck underwater cause you couldn't see the ceiling... i know i drowned that way once. and the controlls in combat were good for the most part. but there were issues with the horse, z-targeting... i don't remember all of them... but id say they were good, but not as good as TP with more things and an game changing controller.

I have replayed TP twice now, and that game is quite long. so i dont find that its aging quickly to me... but i found a lot of fun in it.

as sidequests go... i figure structured ones can be just as fun as those lying around. if you went strait from dungeon to dungeon... you arnt playing zelda correctly. quite francly the only reason why i was exploring in the first zelda was because i couldnt beat the next dungeon... it wass a difficult game to win... and those heart pieces inside of rocks seemed more mandatory to me than a optional sidequest... but im not as good at it as others.

[Brasil]

[quote name='CaNz' date='12 July 2010 - 09:08 PM' timestamp='1278983304' post='697205']
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa143/Sabaku-no-Gaara23/TwilightPrincessLink.jpg new
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt278/PandasQ/3413-zelda2.jpg old
you cant base a game on time it came out... nostalgic views just cloud judgments. there is a huge improvement in graphics. and compare tp to any other Wii game it looks great(wii doesn't have the same abilities as 360 or ps3... so your not being fair anyways)[/quote]

I'm not basing a game on when it came out, though. I'm judging OoT on how it looks today compared to games being developed a decade later, and quite honestly, there is not a huge graphical improvement. Look at the textures. In the OoT screen, the two texture problem areas are Link's fingers and his boots. Everything else is clean and simple, and still looks great. Now look at TP. There are muddy textures nearly everywhere. His belt(s), belt buckles, the folds in the tunic, his armlet, etc. Really, the only thing with crisp edges is his hair, and even that has texture issues. The wall behind him is just grainy. Whether than grain is accidental or part of the art style is a moot point, because it's going to look far worse in the next few years as games with a similar art style evolve far past it.

Furthermore, compared to any other Wii game, TP does not look great. It looks dreadfully dated compared to Mario Galaxy 1 and 2, or Metroid Prime Trilogy, de Blob, Punch Out, ExciteTruck, Raving Rabbids, etc. Now you might say that's an unfair comparison, because those games use very stylized approaches, but it's part of my point: that stylized games often look far better, especially years down the line. Additionally, even "realistic" games like RE4 and Tomb Raider Anniversary have areas that outclass TP. I recall Tomb Raider in particular wowing me pretty frequently. And let's not forget REmake (oh god, REmake, how I love you and hate you) outclassing most Wii games to begin with.

[quote]as far as camera goes i almost never had a problem with it in tp... it actually seemed to work for me, even with the odd weapons that used the screen. and the only time controls was an issue was flying that friggen bird in the mini-game.
in Oot there were quite a few issues... like being forced to blind fire bombs because the camera would switch on you in mid run, or being stuck underwater cause you couldn't see the ceiling... i know i drowned that way once. and the controlls in combat were good for the most part. but there were issues with the horse, z-targeting... i don't remember all of them... but id say they were good, but not as good as TP with more things and an game changing controller.[/quote]

I recall more than one occasion where I wanted to manually position the camera to give me the best view of my environment but the best I could do was click Z to recenter it behind Link. Most notably the magnetic boots areas. The camera is so tight on you there that you're only able to plan one or two movements ahead because you can only see one or two movements ahead. In a franchise that's built itself upon player creativity, experimentation and improvisation, a tight, fixed camera feels horribly out-of-place. One of the biggest disappointments with TWW was that it had a full manual camera but rarely needed it. Inversely, one of the biggest disappointments with TP is that is doesn't have a full manual camera yet desperately needs it.

As for OoT, like I said: I'd expect awful camera performance in early 3D. It's no less forgivable today than it was 10 years ago. But that doesn't excuse awful camera performance today in modern games.

[quote]I have replayed TP twice now, and that game is quite long. so i dont find that its aging quickly to me... but i found a lot of fun in it.[/quote]

Give it 5 or 10 years.

[quote]as sidequests go... i figure structured ones can be just as fun as those lying around. if you went strait from dungeon to dungeon... you arnt playing zelda correctly. quite francly the only reason why i was exploring in the first zelda was because i couldnt beat the next dungeon... it wass a difficult game to win... and those heart pieces inside of rocks seemed more mandatory to me than a optional sidequest... but im not as good at it as others.[/quote]

You go straight from dungeon to dungeon in Twilight Princess because there's virtually nothing worth doing in-between. The "hidden" rupees and heart pieces are there for the sake of being there. The majority of items you acquire are of zero use to you once you complete their respective dungeon. And as much as TP introduced a lot of neat item combinations, their practical application was extremely limited. I can't even recall a real use for bomb-arrows.

And why do you think you were able to explore so freely in the original Zelda? Because the game wasn't supposed to shuttle you from dungeon to dungeon to dungeon. In fact, NES Zelda is probably still the purest realization of Miyamoto's original vision and inspiration.

[Desbreko]

[color=#4B0082]Not to say TP's textures are great, but you probably shouldn't judge them based on a crappily compressed JPG screen shot. I can see a ton of compression artifacts in that screen that aren't the fault of the textures.

Also, you guys should keep in mind that TP is natively a GameCube game. Compared to other GameCube games, it's not the best â?? the Metroid Prime games definitely look better â?? but it certainly isn't terrible.[/color]

[Brasil]

[quote name='Desbreko' date='18 July 2010 - 04:57 AM' timestamp='1279443470' post='697418']
[color=#4B0082]Not to say TP's textures are great, but you probably shouldn't judge them based on a crappily compressed JPG screen shot. I can see a ton of compression artifacts in that screen that aren't the fault of the textures.[/quote]

I see a few, too, but I'm not seeing them at the buckles, the topside of his armlets, etc. Even the stitchwork on his tunic is decidedly low-res. Crappily compressed JPG or not, there are horridly dated textures going on in TP. Remember screenshots of Hyrule Field? How the field looked more like green/brown vomit than grass? They should have never gone with a realistic style. Skyward Sword has the right idea with its hybrid approach.

[quote]Also, you guys should keep in mind that TP is natively a GameCube game. Compared to other GameCube games, it's not the best â?? the Metroid Prime games definitely look better â?? but it certainly isn't terrible.[/quote]

Well, the issue with the Gamecube library (and by extension, the Wii's) is that there weren't too many "realistic" (God I hate that word) games to begin with. In fact, a few of the realistic games on the Wii are actually GCN games from years ago, so there's a bizarre amount of comparative overlap happening. To point, RE4 and REmake. Both GCN games like TP, both ported to the Wii like TP. But has either game really aged well?

RE4 hasn't. There are still some gorgeous areas but it really cannot be played on anything but a 20-inch SD or EDTV. Anything larger than that with any resolution higher than 480p and you've got a visual mess on your screen. I try to tell myself that the film grain is intentional, but I know it isn't. RE4 is a game that really couldn't make the leap successfully, unlike Metroid Prime, TWW, Mario Sunshine, TimeSplitters, even Mortal Kombat Deadly Alliance. I'm especially surprised by Deadly Alliance still looking as good as it does, but then again, it pulls more toward a slapstick Looney Tunes style rather than anything truly gritty, so it's got a lot more graphical leeway as the years go on. But the one game to rule them all? REmake.

Capcom REALLY knocked it out of the park on that game. It's kind of mind-boggling that a re-imagined PSX title still holds a space in the top five best-looking GCN games, and became one of the top five best-looking Wii games due to a technicality. But it's also testament to Capcom's brilliant art direction. They took ultra-realistic character models, photo-realistic pre-rendered backgrounds, and a combination of fixed and dynamic lighting, threw them on a pretty humble machine, and the results were jaw-dropping even to this day. They were working with art assets that should have rapidly aged. Everything about REmake should be fugly today. Yet it looks no different today than it did upon release on GCN in 2002/03. In fact, I'd say it gives most HD Twin games a run for their money.

So, yeah, TP was a GCN game before it went to the Wii. But so were Metroid Prime, REmake, RE4, etc, so TP still has a difficult time not looking awful compared to "similar" games on the same system.

[James]

[font="Palatino Linotype"]Nintendo seems to have always had a problem with low resolution textures, though. This is even true with the Nintendo 64. And within Nintendo's own teams, the results vary significantly.

Twilight Princess definitely suffers from texture problems that other NCL-developed GameCube games don't seem to have and I'm not entirely sure why that is. It reminds me of how it took Nintendo a little while to correctly apply the new anti-aliaising features on the Nintendo 64 (compare their first generation games with their fourth or fifth generation games for example).

And while TP's visuals have arguably dated more than some of its contemporaries, you will definitely find that the last two hardware generations are likely to age the most in terms of graphics. In some ways we are only now coming into an age of truly sophisticated 3D graphics.

This is one reason why I think it can be harder to play 32 or 128 bit games now, as compared to 16 or 8 bit games (especially with the current renaissance in retro graphic design).

Looking at Skyward Sword, though, I think Nintendo are pretty much keeping on-par with other high-end Wii offerings. But at the same time, I have no doubt at all that the game will go through further changes before release. And we will also see a ton of new levels as well. From what I have seen (especially what looks like a fire temple), the graphics are a pretty significant step above TP.[/font]

[CaNz]

[font="Palatino Linotype"]i think the graphics took a bit of a hit from TP's rocky start. everyone thought it was going to be the last good game on the gamecube, but it ended up being a headliner of the new wii. it even came out on both consoles.

Skyward does look like they have improved on this... and since i was never bothered by the graphics in TP, this is an improvement to me, instead of fixing an error.
[/font]

[James]

[font="Palatino Linotype"]I've just been playing Majora's Mask on Wii and, speaking of graphics...wow. It's easy to forget how terribly Nintendo 64 games have aged. When sitting next to Twilight Princess, the difference is quite remarkable. Haha.

That doesn't stop it being a great game, of course, but it does highlight how quickly 3D graphics age (especially from the previous two generations).[/font]

[CaNz]

i agree 100%
the Wii is a huge jump, and even if you don't count all the camera glitches (i got used to seeing through my head halfway through those games) though for being in the first round of decent 3d envirronment games they were very playable. it seems like other than Majora's Mask each 3d sequel improved the graphics. As far as gameplay goes, there are many disputes... though i still stick by my earlier statement. i cant see how a fan of Zelda doesn't enjoy another Zelda game. I a;ways feel great just by beating it.

by the way jamess... aaare you going for the fierce deity's mask?

[James]

[center][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PLVFefa3gg[/media][/center]

[font=palatino linotype]So, here's a new Skyward Sword trailer from Nintendo. What do you guys think?

The more I see this game the more I'm loving the art style. This trailer really makes the game worlds look so imaginative and colourful - I think this looks a whole lot more interesting than Twilight Princess, at least in terms of the overall feel of the world.

Some of the art design is really very impressive, including the character animation. And I'm glad to see a broader variety of environments than were shown previously, too. [/font]

[Brasil]

[quote name='James' timestamp='1317338354' post='709672'][font=palatino linotype]So, here's a new Skyward Sword trailer from Nintendo. What do you guys think?

The more I see this game the more I'm loving the art style. This trailer really makes the game worlds look so imaginative and colourful - I think this looks a whole lot more interesting than Twilight Princess, at least in terms of the overall feel of the world.

Some of the art design is really very impressive, including the character animation. And I'm glad to see a broader variety of environments than were shown previously, too. [/font]
[/quote]

0:27 and 0:41 got me hard.

27s mark has me excited because if the combat works, I'm going to LOVE knocking enemies off of the plank. Wait, we already did pirating in WW.

41s is well...that view reminds me of:

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v151/madsatirist/legend_of_zelda_conceptart_TcDH9.jpg[/IMG]

[James]

[font=palatino linotype]Okay, so I know that we've got the [b]What Are You Playing Now?[/b] topic, but I know a few people have [i]Skyward Sword[/i] already... I'm dying to read some detailed impressions from you guys! [/font]

[The Spectacular Professor]

[font="Comic Sans MS"]The controls work like a dream. The bird and beetle have a bit of a learning curve, but it's pretty easy once you know the actual trick (tilt the remote, don't turn it). The swordplay is amazing, and the enemy AI has been beefed up considerably to make use of it. In short, the game is technically fantastic. It looks gorgeous as well and it's a ton of fun. I'm not comfortable placing it in my favorites yet, and I probably won't be until I've beaten it at least once, but it's promising so far.

One thing I really love is all the customization available. So far I haven't gotten the chance to use it much, but I have upgraded the most basic shield once and the result has been a major help in the earlier portions of the game. You can also upgrade your dungeon items and such, so that's fun. One example of that is the slingshot, which you can beef up so it does spread shots.

Anyway, I can't really sit here and rave all day, so I'll just leave that there. I'm having tons of fun with the game and I think most other people will as well.[/font] Edited November 24, 2011 by The Professor

[Desbreko]

[color=#4B0082]The control is good, but as of beating the first dungeon, it feels kind of wasted. All the overworld baddies have been extremely simple, and there are barely any baddies at all in the dungeon; it felt extremely empty in there. Also, I am not too thrilled by enemies like the Bokoblins that amount to standing there in front of them and following prompts telling you which way to swing your sword. That is extremely boring, and after about the third one, I just started using a skyward strike (the sword beam attack) plus fatal blow combo to completely bypass their blocking.

I expect the combat to get more fun later, but with the way-too-long introduction/tutorial area (so much dialogue... wtf is this, MGS?) and such a disappointing first dungeon, SS's start seems the weakest of the 3D Zeldas to me. Yes, even moreso than TP making you run around as a wolf for the first hour or so. At least with that, you got to kill more than a few Keese and Chuchus in the process.

By the way, I noticed that although they give you six hearts to start with instead of the standard three, it doesn't actually lower the difficulty at the start because most enemies that would do half a heart in other Zeldas instead do a full heart of damage. Rather, I guess it's supposed to raise the difficulty later in the game, since increased damage from baddies lowers the effectiveness of extra heart containers. (6+2 hearts takes 8 1-heart hits to kill you instead of 3+2 hearts taking 10 1/2-heart hits, for example.) It'll be interesting to see how that balances out.

[b]Edit:[/b]
Got to the second dungeon but haven't done anything in it yet. Bokoblins are a little more fun now that they're coming in groups, but I still wish they'd attack more often than, like, once every fifteen seconds.[/color]

[Katie!]

I'm thoroughly enjoying it so far, it's the first RPG I've played on a Wii (unless story mode in Brawl counts) so using the Nunchuck has taken a bit of time to get used to using. My dad is enjoying laughing at me as I swing my Wiimote and Nunchuck around to attack things.