Gaming The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

[Desbreko]

[quote name='James' timestamp='1322545031' post='710396'][font=palatino linotype]Yeah, that's absolutely right. I know [i]why[/i] there's a need for re-centering, but that doesn't make re-centering okay as far as I'm concerned. I just think it feels sloppy. To some extent, it goes against Nintendo's own design principles.

So, to answer your following point, I would much prefer if MotionPlus incorporated the sensor bar in its design. I'm sure there's a middle-ground to be had here - rather than using the sensor bar exclusively to aim, perhaps the sensor bar could simply automatically re-center the controller every time you point at the screen (and then the controller disengages from it once centered). This [i]might[/i] be an elegant way of solving the problem, at least in part. Although I'm sure Nintendo's thought of that, at any rate.[/font][/quote]
[color=#4B0082]The problem with that is you'd still be stuck only being able to aim while pointing at the screen because that's the only place it would center on. I much prefer being able to aim from any odd position I want as it's much easier without having to bring my arm up from its usual position down by my leg. It's especially nice when I'm having to quickly switch between sword control and aiming while fighting baddies.

I view having to recenter the cursor (and really, you only [i]have[/i] to recenter it if you change position after starting to aim) the same way I view camera control. Sure, having to do it manually is more effort, but it provides much more freedom than any automatic way of doing it. See: Mario Sunshine's fully manual camera, which I love, vs. Mario Galaxy's fully automatic camera, which I hate.[/color]

[quote name='James' timestamp='1322545031' post='710396'][font=palatino linotype]Interesting. The funny thing is, this whole scenario simply never occurred to me. I guess that's why I haven't included it as a criticism of the game in my own comments - it simply hasn't occurred to me to try to snipe enemies from afar using the skyward strike.[/font][/quote]
[color=#4B0082]I tend to take full advantage of any abilities the game gives me in abusing the AI, so yeah, this occurred to me pretty early on when I was getting annoyed at having to fight so many Bokoblins one-on-one. :p

Really though, it's no worse than spamming spin attacks in OoT or TWW, or the wolf jump attack in TP, so I can't fault SS too much for it.

By the way, another good use for skyward strikes is cutting large amounts of grass at once. A horizontal one really mows it down.[/color]

[Petie]

[quote name='Desbreko' timestamp='1322554205' post='710400'][color="#4B0082"]
By the way, another good use for skyward strikes is cutting large amounts of grass at once. A horizontal one really mows it down.[/color]
[/quote]
[color="#0000ff"]I have, of course, used it in combat as well but I think this has been my primary use of the skyward strike so far, haha.[/color]

[Katie!]

[quote name='Desbreko' timestamp='1322554205' post='710400']
[color=#4B0082]By the way, another good use for skyward strikes is cutting large amounts of grass at once. A horizontal one really mows it down.[/color]
[/quote]

Never knew you could do that! Game changer, right there.

[James]

[quote=Desbreko]The problem with that is you'd still be stuck only being able to aim while pointing at the screen because that's the only place it would center on. I much prefer being able to aim from any odd position I want as it's much easier without having to bring my arm up from its usual position down by my leg. It's especially nice when I'm having to quickly switch between sword control and aiming while fighting baddies.[/quote]

[font=palatino linotype]Yeah, you're right - that would be a limitation. On the other hand, the screen tends to be in front of you...so, for the most part I think this would be OK. It would also possibly be a little better if the sensor was [i]only[/i] used for centering, so that you can still move "beyond" the limits of your TV screen to aim around the world. [/font]

[quote=Desbreko]I view having to recenter the cursor (and really, you only have to recenter it if you change position after starting to aim) the same way I view camera control. Sure, having to do it manually is more effort, but it provides much more freedom than any automatic way of doing it. See: Mario Sunshine's fully manual camera, which I love, vs. Mario Galaxy's fully automatic camera, which I hate.[/quote]

[font=palatino linotype]Yeah, I don't really view it like camera control as such. I think the reason is partly because centering your view is more of a controller problem with MotionPlus rather than just being a viewing angle problem specifically. That is to say, it [i]feels[/i] - however vaguely - like the controller isn't quite working as sharply as it should. And I think that has the effect of slightly affecting that suspension of disbelief.

At least when you move around in Mario and you click a button to center the camera, it pretty much "just works". With MotionPlus, you might not be thinking about centering and you go to aim at a point on the screen...but Link lurches wildly to the left or right because you have to re-center. It just has the slight effect of feeling a little broken at times.

But maybe this is not really a widespread feeling. I just wonder what those more "casual" players think.[/font]

[quote=Desbreko]I tend to take full advantage of any abilities the game gives me in abusing the AI, so yeah, this occurred to me pretty early on when I was getting annoyed at having to fight so many Bokoblins one-on-one. :p[/quote]

[font=palatino linotype]Haha, fair enough. I like being surrounded by enemies, it just increases the tension. Although the Bokoblins can get a little repetitive at times, admittedly. [/font]

[quote=Desbreko]By the way, another good use for skyward strikes is cutting large amounts of grass at once. A horizontal one really mows it down. [/quote]

[font=palatino linotype]Awesome! I need to check that out. New grass cutting methods in Zelda are always worthwhile. ~_^

On a totally unrelated note, it's good to have a [i]real[/i] gaming discussion here at the moment... there have been a few good ones lately, but I find myself missing the days when our gaming forums were full of discussions and debates. *sigh*[/font]

[Katie!]

I set up my second Wii at school today, and came to the sad realization that my game data was not saved on the disk. I don't know why I thought this, but now I'm sad and don't know if I should start a second save file on my other Wii. :c

[Desbreko]

[quote name='James' timestamp='1322607261' post='710405'][font=palatino linotype]Yeah, I don't really view it like camera control as such. I think the reason is partly because centering your view is more of a controller problem with MotionPlus rather than just being a viewing angle problem specifically. That is to say, it [i]feels[/i] - however vaguely - like the controller isn't quite working as sharply as it should. And I think that has the effect of slightly affecting that suspension of disbelief.

At least when you move around in Mario and you click a button to center the camera, it pretty much "just works". With MotionPlus, you might not be thinking about centering and you go to aim at a point on the screen...but Link lurches wildly to the left or right because you have to re-center. It just has the slight effect of feeling a little broken at times.

But maybe this is not really a widespread feeling. I just wonder what those more "casual" players think.[/font][/quote]
[color=#4B0082]It's more a limitation of the game mechanics more than the controller, I think. To give you that amount of freedom with the cursor, the game has to have some manual input from the player for it to function correctly at all times. Likewise, the game can't always know the optimal camera angle, so manual input is required to move it. In both cases, you can force it to be automatic (screen centered pointing and fixed camera angles), but you give up some freedom that way. You just can't get away from this with pointer-based aiming; even a mouse would require you to pick it up and move it back across the pad when you reach the edge, or else the limitation would become how far you can aim in any one direction.

Really though, this stopped being a problem for me after the first couple hours of gameplay. I rarely need to recenter anymore, now that I'm used to moving the remote to a good neutral position before I go into aiming mode. And if I do need to, it's become a natural reflex to reach up and hit the d-pad just like I would for changing the camera angle in a Mario game or picking up the mouse on my PC.[/color]

[quote name='James' timestamp='1322607261' post='710405'][font=palatino linotype]On a totally unrelated note, it's good to have a [i]real[/i] gaming discussion here at the moment... there have been a few good ones lately, but I find myself missing the days when our gaming forums were full of discussions and debates. *sigh*[/font][/quote]
[color=#4B0082]I do, too. Remember when a new game in the series would spawn at least half a dozen threads in the Zelda forum? =/[/color]

[quote name='Katie!' timestamp='1322614625' post='710407']I set up my second Wii at school today, and came to the sad realization that my game data was not saved on the disk. I don't know why I thought this, but now I'm sad and don't know if I should start a second save file on my other Wii. :c[/quote]
[color=#4B0082]I'm pretty sure you can copy Skyward Sword save files to SD cards. So if you've got one, you could copy the save and take it to school, copy it to the Wii there to play, and then copy it back to the SD card when you're done to take back home.[/color]

[Sangome]

[quote name='James' timestamp='1322607261' post='710405']
[font=palatino linotype][font=palatino linotype]On a totally unrelated note, it's good to have a [i]real[/i] gaming discussion here at the moment... there have been a few good ones lately, but I find myself missing the days when our gaming forums were full of discussions and debates. *sigh*[/font]
[/quote]

[color="#9932CC"][font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]I'm so sad/jealous that I can't participate in an actual decent discussion yet. ;____; I've been avoiding this thread for the most part because I'm absolutely insisting on going into this game as blind as I can, and I only just now got over myself [just a hair, anyway] to take a look.

I just hope there's some decent discussion left here in about a month [i.e. Christmas] when I should actually be getting the game. I'd rent it to try it out, but I have a Wii that was manufactured shortly after release, meaning I don't have Motionplus. :/ Friggin' Nintendo and your gimmicks! *shakes fist*[/font][/color]

[quote name='Katie!' timestamp='1322614625' post='710407']
I set up my second Wii at school today, and came to the sad realization that my game data was not saved on the disk. I don't know why I thought this, but now I'm sad and don't know if I should start a second save file on my other Wii. :c
[/quote]

[color="#9932CC"][font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]What Des said. If you have a digital camera, those should come with an SD card already. That's what I use to back up my data. 'bout the only time you can't is if the data comes from a game with online capabilities, which, as far as I know, Skyward Sword doesn't have [then again there's still a plethora of stuff I don't know, so...].

*goes back to weeping silently at her lack of game*[/font][/color][/font] Edited November 30, 2011 by Sangome

[Katie!]

[quote name='Desbreko' timestamp='1322618710' post='710409']
[color=#4B0082]I'm pretty sure you can copy Skyward Sword save files to SD cards. So if you've got one, you could copy the save and take it to school, copy it to the Wii there to play, and then copy it back to the SD card when you're done to take back home.[/color]
[/quote]

Thanks, Des. I'll have to do that when I go home again. Unfortunately, I don't live close enough to school where going home just to copy that would be feasible.

[Brasil]

[quote name='James' timestamp='1322545031' post='710396'](Where's Alex when you need him - he might not believe that I actually have a critical word to say about Nintendo, haha).[/quote]

rofl, I say. :-)

My relationship with Motion+ was...peculiar. Loved a lot of its implementation in Wii Sports Resort. Then never bought another game for it. To this day the two Motion+ attachments are sitting behind my computer monitor, where they've resided for probably a year now. Wii Sports Resort is tucked on the shelf next to me, nestled between Lego Indy and Umbrella Chronicles. My gaming has been so odd over the past couple of years. I've got months worth of Wii gaming to enjoy on a single shelf...Metroid Prime Trilogy, Super Paper Mario, SMG2...and a few others somewhere around here. It's sad that I rarely play the Wii if I'm not playing RE4, REmake, NSMB Wii or...Virtual Console stuff? And even then, I purchase VC just so I can be "street-legal" when I'm running N64 games through an emulator on my PC. Though, there IS something incredibly awesome and oh-so-wrong about playing MM, naturally rendered at 720p, with a 360 controller mapped out to mimic GCN. haha

Very peculiar times, these have been. Plunging into IT probably doesn't help matters, either. You end up scouring NewEgg, seeing good deals on parts, and within a month or two, you've built yourself a decent gaming rig. Then the Steam sales come. And then you don't play consoles at all.

Yet every so often there are games that pull you back to the PS3, 360 or Wii. Recently, Arkham City and GoldenEye Reloaded were the 360 pullers. GE:R is actually fantastic, too. I played through it on Wii and very much enjoyed it, but split-screen multi was complete ass (is that going to be censored?) and graphically, it was horrid. Even running it through Dolphin didn't do much better. Slowdown. Graphical hiccups and bugs. Wired 360 controller can only do so much, I guess. :-/

Initially, Skyward Sword was looking to be the Wii puller game for me. Love the art style. Love the idea of it using Motion+. Love the concept of changing up the overworld/dungeon relationship.

But now I'm kind of glad I held off on it. Sounds like the opening would drive me absolutely mad. And...sounds like the controls are...strange? I have a feeling that overall, I'm kind of done with most Nintendo stuff for this generation. Eh, no. I'm done with most motion controls this generation. Kinect is decent and MS is doing some neat things with it, but it's more a UI device than anything. I've been hearing extremely lukewarm things about Move. And Motion+ was really just an interesting experiment for me, gaming-wise, I suppose.

I guess the biggest challenge with SS is the same kind of challenge every company's been trying to figure out: how to reconcile motion controls with "standard" gameplay. Doesn't seem like they're hitting that happy medium between intuition and performance: Kinect breaks your Avatar's arm. Move has drift. Motion+ needs to re-calibrate after IR.

I had high hopes that SS might pull it off. Guess 1:1 won't happen for a while, huh?

Maybe it's just as well. I'm trying to play through Deus Ex HR, DC Universe Online (you should play it, seriously), plus all the stuff I got for free on Black Friday. Amazon Rewards Points love me.

[Desbreko]

[quote name='Brasil' timestamp='1322724395' post='710430']I had high hopes that SS might pull it off. Guess 1:1 won't happen for a while, huh?[/quote]
[color=#4B0082]SS is as close to 1:1 as I'd want for a game like Zelda, really. While it's pretty close, being exactly 1:1 would make hitting enemies that require precisely angled slashes a huge pain, not to mention the headache that would come from trying to swing at such angles while the camera is facing Link from some odd diagonal and the sword control is still relative to the direction Link is facing. (That happens a lot while targeting because you wouldn't be able to see the baddie if it centered perfectly behind you.) The idea of perfect 1:1 control is cool and all, but the more precise you require the input to be, the harder it becomes to make Link do exactly what you want â?? and no one wants to play a game when they feel like they're fighting against the controls more than the actual enemies.[/color]

[James]

[quote=Desbreko]SS is as close to 1:1 as I'd want for a game like Zelda, really. While it's pretty close, being exactly 1:1 would make hitting enemies that require precisely angled slashes a huge pain, not to mention the headache that would come from trying to swing at such angles while the camera is facing Link from some odd diagonal and the sword control is still relative to the direction Link is facing. (That happens a lot while targeting because you wouldn't be able to see the baddie if it centered perfectly behind you.) The idea of perfect 1:1 control is cool and all, but the more precise you require the input to be, the harder it becomes to make Link do exactly what you want â?? and no one wants to play a game when they feel like they're fighting against the controls more than the actual enemies. [/quote]

[font=palatino linotype]I largely agree with this. The more I think about it, the more I think that [i]perfect[/i] 1:1 control is probably unnecessary. The bigger issue I have with [i]Skyward Sword[/i] is really just the need to continually re-center the controller. And as I said before, you wouldn't need "pointer-based aiming" - just "pointer-based re-centering". I'm wondering whether or not Nintendo will do something about this in the future.

But to get back to the point, I think that to some extent it's better for Zelda to [i]closely approximate[/i] your gestures in some cases. One thing I was a bit worried about was that I might need to make huge arm movements to directly prompt what Link does in-game - I don't want to have to do that. It would be tiring and unnecessary, and would make long play sessions tedious.

So in that sense, the game has to be able to accommodate the fact that a) different players will have different gesture sizes and b) that not everybody wants to stand there and flail for hours on end.

The only [i]slight[/i] problem I've encountered with sword control - and it's a minor complaint - is that when you have to move fast, the response time is a little too noticeable sometimes. But generally this is not an issue, and when it arises, it's not really an impediment to gameplay.[/font]

[quote=Brasil]Though, there IS something incredibly awesome and oh-so-wrong about playing MM, naturally rendered at 720p, with a 360 controller mapped out to mimic GCN. haha[/quote]

[font=palatino linotype]I need to try this. I got MM on Virtual Console and, yeah... it's okay. Unfortunately I'm playing it on a TV that [i]clearly[/i] isn't its natural habitat, haha.[/font]

[quote=Brasil]But now I'm kind of glad I held off on it. Sounds like the opening would drive me absolutely mad. And...sounds like the controls are...strange? I have a feeling that overall, I'm kind of done with most Nintendo stuff for this generation. Eh, no. I'm done with most motion controls this generation.[/quote]

[font=palatino linotype]It sounds like you haven't played it, heh. You [i]have[/i] to play it.

The opening of the game [i]is[/i] frustrating. And you've seen my criticisms of the re-centering. But despite these two annoyances, the game is really unfolding brilliantly. The first boss alone is a revelation - and I mean, a revelation for gaming in general. The experience is quite special and it'll definitely make you smile.

There are quite a few moments like this in [i]Skyward Sword[/i]. It's one game you definitely can't miss, despite the flaws.[/font]

[quote=Brasil]I guess the biggest challenge with SS is the same kind of challenge every company's been trying to figure out: how to reconcile motion controls with "standard" gameplay. [/quote]

[font=palatino linotype]The beautiful thing about [i]Skyward Sword[/i] is that it doesn't feel like a compromise between two disparate systems. It doesn't even feel like a marriage of two different concepts.

It feels like a motion controlled game for hardcore players, really. It is probably the best example yet of how significant motion control can be when placed in the hands of the right developer.

In that sense I'm glad that Wii U will also use the Wii Remote - [i]Skyward Sword[/i] demonstrates that many previous games were only scratching the surface of what is possible. It has taken this long to start seeing the true potential of the technology emerge. I think there is the potential for us to be very happy and surprised with what comes around in the future.[/font]

[quote=Brasil]Maybe it's just as well. I'm trying to play through Deus Ex HR, DC Universe Online (you should play it, seriously), plus all the stuff I got for free on Black Friday. Amazon Rewards Points love me. [/quote]

[font=palatino linotype]I totally understand, haha. I'm trying to balance between [i]Skyward Sword[/i], [i]Skyrim[/i] and [i]Battlefield 3[/i]. It's a tough juggling act![/font]

[Brasil]

[quote name='James' timestamp='1322778461' post='710446']
[font=palatino linotype]I largely agree with this. The more I think about it, the more I think that [i]perfect[/i] 1:1 control is probably unnecessary. The bigger issue I have with [i]Skyward Sword[/i] is really just the need to continually re-center the controller. And as I said before, you wouldn't need "pointer-based aiming" - just "pointer-based re-centering". I'm wondering whether or not Nintendo will do something about this in the future.

But to get back to the point, I think that to some extent it's better for Zelda to [i]closely approximate[/i] your gestures in some cases. One thing I was a bit worried about was that I might need to make huge arm movements to directly prompt what Link does in-game - I don't want to have to do that. It would be tiring and unnecessary, and would make long play sessions tedious.

So in that sense, the game has to be able to accommodate the fact that a) different players will have different gesture sizes and b) that not everybody wants to stand there and flail for hours on end.

The only [i]slight[/i] problem I've encountered with sword control - and it's a minor complaint - is that when you have to move fast, the response time is a little too noticeable sometimes. But generally this is not an issue, and when it arises, it's not really an impediment to gameplay.[/font][/quote]

Still hoping for an analog stick on the next Wiimote! :-) Although the WiiU controller is supposed to have dual analog in some capacity, so I may still luck out...I hope.

Speaking about SS, though, I wouldn't expect the need to make huge arm movements, either way. The size of the Wiimote versus the size of the in-game sword is in the player's favor, I think. The amount of space required to move the sword in Wii Sports Resort, for example, was relative. I never had to make large, sweeping strikes (although doing so was way more fun) in order to effectively target the opponent. All I had to do was move the Wiimote an appropriate distance relative to the on-screen space. Come to think of it, I don't think I ever had to move my arm outside my strike zone in a major capacity. Good, controlled wrist action (ahem) was all you needed there. Outside of having to hold the nunchuk, I don't see why it couldn't be terribly different for Zelda. Plus the Wii really has been begging for a wireless first-party nunchuk for years. lol

When I do play SS, I'm hoping for a more tempered combat system anyway. Loved the faster-paced, hyper-responsive arcade-style killing in WW, but I'd like to see something more methodical. Give me a few slower enemies and make'em murderously deadly instead of a bunch of cannon fodder whose corpses will explode into Rupees. Would help with the difficulty, too.

[quote][font=palatino linotype]I need to try this. I got MM on Virtual Console and, yeah... it's okay. Unfortunately I'm playing it on a TV that [i]clearly[/i] isn't its natural habitat, haha.[/font][/quote]

It's surprisingly glorious. I've run Mario 64, OoT, MM, Blast Corps, Turok, GE, PD...and it's incredible how much better they all are. The visuals scale up ridiculously well. Like, scarily well. There's something about those games that works really nicely at 720p. The guys with monster rigs I've seen around usually have N64 games looking better than TP, run at the same resolution and graphical flourishes, too. It really is insane what that simpler art style can do.

Plus, those games run ridiculously smoothly. I've never seen Turok, GE, and PD run like that. There's no frame-dropping at all. Everything is crystal-clear. The explosions in Turok look fantastic, too!

And the sound, oh holy crap. Yeah, it still sounds like N64 games--and rightly so--but that's even a dramatic improvement. The bass really comes through with Turok and GE, in particular.

I gotta say...a gaming PC breathes new life into A LOT of different titles. Not looking forward to replacing my processor in two years, though. My socket type probably won't be supported anymore. :-(

[quote][font=palatino linotype]It sounds like you haven't played it, heh. You [i]have[/i] to play it.

The opening of the game [i]is[/i] frustrating. And you've seen my criticisms of the re-centering. But despite these two annoyances, the game is really unfolding brilliantly. The first boss alone is a revelation - and I mean, a revelation for gaming in general. The experience is quite special and it'll definitely make you smile.

There are quite a few moments like this in [i]Skyward Sword[/i]. It's one game you definitely can't miss, despite the flaws.[/font][/quote]

Haven't yet, but will...some time. Remember, I could barely get through TP's opening without wanting to kick a kitten into an electric fan. And I loathe trying to play SMG1 on account of its horribly-paced opening. If I can't get into the action quickly...I get cranky, and fast. Especially moreso these days. Edited December 3, 2011 by Brasil

[Desbreko]

[quote name='Brasil' timestamp='1322878079' post='710451']When I do play SS, I'm hoping for a more tempered combat system anyway. Loved the faster-paced, hyper-responsive arcade-style killing in WW, but I'd like to see something more methodical. Give me a few slower enemies and make'em murderously deadly instead of a bunch of cannon fodder whose corpses will explode into Rupees. Would help with the difficulty, too.[/quote]
[color=#4B0082]I think you'll like SS's combat, then, as that's pretty much what it's like. The enemies haven't been especially kill-you-in-the-face yet (I'm still between the third and fourth dungeons since I haven't played in a few days), but hearts are much less common, so even losing a heart here and there from stray hits really matters... Unless you're carrying the Heart Medal, which makes hearts drop plenty frequently like they did in OoT, but that's an optional item.

But yeah, that intro... If you know what to do and don't care about talking to the townspeople, you can probably get through it in about half an hour, so you might want to just look up how it goes and save yourself some raging.[/color]

[Brasil]

[quote name='Desbreko' timestamp='1322892278' post='710452']
[color=#4B0082]I think you'll like SS's combat, then, as that's pretty much what it's like. The enemies haven't been especially kill-you-in-the-face yet (I'm still between the third and fourth dungeons since I haven't played in a few days), but hearts are much less common, so even losing a heart here and there from stray hits really matters... Unless you're carrying the Heart Medal, which makes hearts drop plenty frequently like they did in OoT, but that's an optional item.[/color][/quote]

Ooh that does sound nice. The enemies aren't morons, right? The braindead husks of recent Zelda games were...less than agreeable. And just how much customization have you experienced so far? Do you need to equip the Heart Medal, or just keep it in your inventory? If you need to equip it, do you have a set number of equip slots? How's the in-game economy? That's always been one of the things Zelda games desperately needed, I think. TP never gave you a use for the infinite numbers of Rupees you'd collect, WW suffered from similar issues. The wallet was always full and you never had anything to buy.

That reminds me. Are they still just giving you all of the equipment you'll need, or are there actual rewards for exploration and experimentation? Like in LoZ or LttP?

[quote][color=#4B0082]But yeah, that intro... If you know what to do and don't care about talking to the townspeople, you can probably get through it in about half an hour, so you might want to just look up how it goes and save yourself some raging.[/color]
[/quote]

:-(

Game intros used to be an optional 2-second text scroll that you could bypass by just hitting Start and getting dropped right into the first level.

[Desbreko]

[color=#4B0082]The enemies aren't especially smart, but some do react to how you're holding your sword and guard in the appropriate direction. So, like, a baddie will block most of your slashes if you just flail randomly or telegraph your swings too much. And if you do get a hit in but just keep swinging in the same direction, it will put its guard up to block and stop you. (Well, usually. Bokoblins are slow and you can stun lock them if you swing at the right frequency.) Quick and precise slashes are much more likely to get through, and of course you have to make sure that you're swinging in a direction that isn't currently being guarded. So even if the AI isn't terribly complex, combat does require more thought than past 3D Zeldas.

The way the customization works is that you've got a separate pouch for shields, bottles, medals, and other misc. upgrades in addition to your main item inventory. You start off with four slots in the pouch and can buy upgrades to expand it to eight max. Anything you don't have room for in your pouch can be left back in Skyloft at the item check, and if you find something while your pouch is full, it automatically gets sent to the item check.

Shields have to be equipped to be useable, but after doing so, you can then freely swap to other pouch items. So if you're running around with your shield out but then you need to use a potion, you can pull out the potion and use it without your shield being disequipped. Medals and other upgrades â?? like +5 bomb bag capacity, for example â?? always provide their benefits as long as they're in your pouch.

The economy seems better than TWW and TP so far, but I get the feeling I'm going to run out of things to buy before long. Also, they make you buy wallet upgrades, so it kind of feels like you're collecting rupees just so you can collect more rupees sometimes. But rupees aren't quite as common as in TP, it seems like. I've barely seen any reds as drops, and I've only found reds in dungeon chests; I think the only purples I've gotten were from a minigame. Some silvers and golds can be found from exploring the overworld, though.

About exploration, it seems all the big items are still handed to you as part of the story, but there's still incentive to explore. The way it works is that when you're down on the surface, you'll find this certain type of block, and when you hit it with a skyward strike, it'll disappear. Then when you go back into the sky, one of the locked chests scattered around the islands up there that corresponds to the block you activated will be unlocked â?? and it's nice enough to show where it is on your map â?? allowing you to open it. This seems to be how you get a lot of the upgrades and medals that go in your pouch, or else you get silver or gold rupees to buy that stuff with.[/color]

[James]

[quote=Brasil]Haven't yet, but will...some time. Remember, I could barely get through TP's opening without wanting to kick a kitten into an electric fan. And I loathe trying to play SMG1 on account of its horribly-paced opening. If I can't get into the action quickly...I get cranky, and fast. Especially moreso these days. [/quote]

[font=palatino linotype]Yeah, I'm the same - long, dragged-out openings frustrate me a lot. Part of the reason is that I don't have the time to dedicate to games like I used to, so I tend to want to get in on the action quickly.

Having said that, I hope the lengthy intro to Super Mario Galaxy didn't stop you playing it outright; it is a brilliant game. The two SMG games are among the very best of this generation, I think. They really represent Nintendo at its most exceptional.

On a totally unrelated note, I downloaded some of the ripped soundtrack from Skyward Sword yesterday because there was a particular track I wanted to get. This is pretty much unheard of for me - I don't tend to listen to video game music outside the game. But I'm starting to think that Skyward Sword has one of the best soundtracks I've ever heard in a video game. The fact that it's a complete orchestral soundtrack no doubt helps a lot, too. The more I listen, the more impressed I am.

It's amazing how these newer, fully-orchestral soundtracks are shining an even bigger light on Koji Kondo's talent as a composer.[/font]

[Petie]

[quote name='James' timestamp='1323144220' post='710509'][font="palatino linotype"]On a totally unrelated note, I downloaded some of the ripped soundtrack from Skyward Sword yesterday because there was a particular track I wanted to get. This is pretty much unheard of for me - I don't tend to listen to video game music outside the game. But I'm starting to think that Skyward Sword has one of the best soundtracks I've ever heard in a video game. The fact that it's a complete orchestral soundtrack no doubt helps a lot, too. The more I listen, the more impressed I am.

It's amazing how these newer, fully-orchestral soundtracks are shining an even bigger light on Koji Kondo's talent as a composer.[/font]
[/quote]
[color="#0000ff"]Out of curiousity, which track was it you wanted specifically? I have always enjoyed the Zelda soundtracks but I agree that having a real orchestra behind it really makes for some incredible music.[/color]

[James]

[quote name='Petie' timestamp='1323177987' post='710514']
[color="#0000ff"]Out of curiousity, which track was it you wanted specifically? I have always enjoyed the Zelda soundtracks but I agree that having a real orchestra behind it really makes for some incredible music.[/color]
[/quote]

[font=palatino linotype]I don't know what the name of it is, but it's the piece that plays when you first meet [i]Fi[/i].

It is one of the most haunting and beautiful pieces of music I've ever heard in a video game. For me, it's already very memorable. I think it's right up there with Zelda's best.

If you can find it, give it a listen outside the game itself. It's incredibly beautiful.[/font]

[Petie]

[color="#0000ff"]Just looked it up on YouTube to be sure I remembered it correctly. It really is an incredible piece. Here it is, for those interested:

[youtube]cCpAFkdy9Ls[/youtube][/color]

[Ellerby]

[quote name='Petie' timestamp='1323228271' post='710517']
[color="#0000ff"]Just looked it up on YouTube to be sure I remembered it correctly. It really is an incredible piece. Here it is, for those interested:[/color]
[/quote]
[color="#696969"][font="Tahoma"]<3 Love this games music. I took a break to beat and complete Super Mario 3D Land but now that I've done that I'm getting right back into Zelda. One of my favourite songs from the game so far has to be when I walked inside a random house and heard the classic "someone else's house" song.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaLOMAW_jzo&feature=related[/media]

It's not much different from the original, but I still lurve it. :3[/font][/color]

[James]

[quote name='Petie' timestamp='1323228271' post='710517']
[color="#0000ff"]Just looked it up on YouTube to be sure I remembered it correctly. It really is an incredible piece. Here it is, for those interested:

[youtube]cCpAFkdy9Ls[/youtube][/color]
[/quote]

[font=palatino linotype]Yep, that's the one. Absolutely amazing track. And there are quite a few flute pieces throughout Skyward Sword that are equally impressive.

It makes me want to see the live symphony performances.[/font]

[Petie]

[quote name='James' timestamp='1323232610' post='710520'][font="palatino linotype"]It makes me want to see the live symphony performances.[/font][/quote]
[color="#0000ff"]Well they are supposedly touring. I know the launch concert was in California but they had a Dallas date posted not long after so this could be a possibility. I know I'd be there in an instant if they came anywhere near here.[/color]

[James]

[quote name='Petie' timestamp='1323264133' post='710523']
[color="#0000ff"]Well they are supposedly touring. I know the launch concert was in California but they had a Dallas date posted not long after so this could be a possibility. I know I'd be there in an instant if they came anywhere near here.[/color]
[/quote]

[font=palatino linotype]I have no idea if they will ever make it to Australia, though. I was lucky enough to see the [i]Game On[/i] concert at the Sydney Opera House in 2009 - that was awesome, and that had some classic Nintendo stuff. But the Zelda symphony just seems amazing, especially based on the CD that comes with Skyward Sword.

Here's hoping.[/font]

[Desbreko]

[quote name='Ellerby' timestamp='1323230489' post='710518']One of my favourite songs from the game so far has to be when I walked inside a random house and heard the classic "someone else's house" song.[/quote]
[color=#4B0082]Every time I hear this theme in a new Zelda game, it makes me think of the first time I played OoT and running around Kokiri Forest.

SS has some beautiful music, for sure â?? the piece that plays while chasing after Fi was also an instant favorite of mine â?? but my problem is that not much of it has been memorable to me. When I think of locations in OoT, MM, and TWW, a lot of the music from those places instantly comes to mind, but I can hardly recall any of SS's music even when I consciously try. Maybe this'll change once I play the game more, but I also had the same problem with TP. I can recall a grand total of one of TP's original themes at this point, that being the Hidden Village theme.[/color]

[Petie]

[size="2"][color="#0000ff"]Hmm... I think you're actually right. While bits and pieces of music do come to me from the most recent games, nothing stands out the way it did in the older ones, Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker specifically. Gerudo Valley and Dragon Roost Island are still some of my favorite Zelda (and video game as a whole) music to this day.[/color]

[color="#0000ff"]There is a little bias with some of the older stuff simply because it's been around for a lot longer though. And with Ocarina of Time in particular, I'll assume you've played through it at least a couple of times so it has that working for it too. I can't say much for Twilight Princess since we're not currently playing it but I think it's fair to hold off judgement on Skyward Sword until the end when the music has had a chance to sink in a bit more.[/color][/size]
[size="2"][color="#0000ff"][/color][/size]
[size="2"][color="#0000ff"][b]Edit:[/b][/color][/size]
[color="#0000ff"][size="2"]On second thought, I forgot about one piece from Twilight Princess that seems to pop into my head somewhat frequently - the [/size][/color][color="#0000FF"][size="2"]Gerudo Desert theme. When I first saw the word [/size][/color][color="#0000FF"][size="2"]Gerudo, I was hoping for some version of [/size][/color][color="#0000FF"][size="2"]Gerudo Valley's theme and was, at first, disappointed when it wasn't. However, I soon came to actually really like the [/size][/color][color="#0000ff"][size="2"]Gerudo Dessert music and while I may not remember much other music from Twilight Princess, this one [/size]definitely[size="2"] sticks out for me.[/size][/color]