Firing a Four Star

[Justin]

Understand firstly that this is being written by a member of the US Armed Forces, so keep that in mind.

I'm sure many of you have heard about General McChrystal and staff's remarks to Rolling Stone about the Administration and the controversy stirred up by those remarks.

My question is this: What do you think about the general's subsequent resignation and replacement?

I'll give you my perspective and the reason it's such a big deal in the military mind. First I present Article 88 of the UCMJ:

Text:
â??Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.â?

Elements:
(1) That the accused was a commissioned officer of the United States armed forces;

(2) That the accused used certain words against an official or legislature named in the article;

(3) That by an act of the accused these words came to the knowledge of a person other than the accused; and

(4) That the words used were contemptuous, either in themselves or by virtue of the circumstances under which they were used. Note: If the words were against a Governor or legislature, add the following element

(5) That the accused was then present in the State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession of the Governor or legislature concerned.

Explanation.

The official or legislature against whom the words are used must be occupying one of the offices or be one of the legislatures named in Article 88 at the time of the offense. Neither â??Congressâ? nor â??legislatureâ? includes its members individually. â??Governorâ? does not include â??lieutenant governor.â? It is immaterial whether the words are used against the official in an official or private capacity. If not personally contemptuous, ad-verse criticism of one of the officials or legislatures named in the article in the course of a political discussion, even though emphatically expressed, may not be charged as a violation of the article.

Similarly, expressions of opinion made in a purely private conversation should not rdinarily be charged. Giving broad circulation to a written publication containing contemptuous words of the kind made punishable by this article, or the utterance of contemptuous words of this kind in the presence of military subordinates, aggravates the offense. The truth or falsity of the statements is immaterial.



Now, basically what all that means is that no commissioned officer may at any time make contemptuous statements regarding any superior in the presence of subordinates or media. Understand my words. [b]He May Not.[/b]

My thoughts are this:

I cannot imagine how one can reach that level in the US military and not understand this very basic concept. As an enlisted man, to whom this article does not apply, even I understand it and its motivation perfectly. Right or wrong do not matter. He had no right to be right or wrong, you could say.

To put it in another's words "An officer can argue with his commander all day. But once his commander has made up his mind, there is only one thing to be said: 'Yes, sir' "

Thoughts?

-Justin Edited June 25, 2010 by Justin

[eleanor]

I usually hate it when people do this, but seriously The Daily Show summed up my feelings on the matter. When Jon Stewart was talking about it, and then they joked about General McChrystal and put him on the cover of People magazine saying Joe Biden has huge cankles. Like...why. Why would you do this, if you KNEW the consequences (unless for some reason he thought he was above the military code.

[Korey]

[font="Garamond"][size=2][color="Navy]For some reason, I get the feeling he was trying to make an offhand joke that backfired on him. But I totally agree, he got what he deserved under the military code. While he's entitled to have an opinion, expressing it isn't good media for the US Army or the Government overall. If you don't have the support of your generals, then you'll eventually not have the support of his army.

Hey Justin, I'm curious, does this article extend to NCO's as well? I'm pretty sure you don't want an E8 or E9 spouting off about the President either.[/color][/size][/font]

[Justin]

[quote name='Korey' date='25 June 2010 - 10:02 AM' timestamp='1277456543' post='695973']
[font="Garamond"][size=2][color="Navy]For some reason, I get the feeling he was trying to make an offhand joke that backfired on him. But I totally agree, he got what he deserved under the military code. While he's entitled to have an opinion, expressing it isn't good media for the US Army or the Government overall. If you don't have the support of your generals, then you'll eventually not have the support of his army.

Hey Justin, I'm curious, does this article extend to NCO's as well? I'm pretty sure you don't want an E8 or E9 spouting off about the President either.[/color][/size][/font]
[/quote]

Not in this particular article. However articles 89-91 cover that base for all enlisted personnel, NCO or not. However, that typically does not apply to speaking ill of civilian officials. It's in poor taste as an NCO for me to badmouth the President, and in reality, asking for trouble of some less official kind, but that in and of itself would be difficult to punish, unless I went to great lengths to have the comments published.

To give an example, say I'm the Leading Petty Officer of a division of 60 sailors. Say I walk up to my division and start ranting about something the President said last night that I thought was wrong/whatever. I probably wouldn't be the LPO of said division anymore, even though no official punitive action would likely be taken.

However, if I were in the same position and walked up bitching about the Skipper, or any commisioned officer with the exception of chaplains, doctors, or lawyers, I would be subject to UCMJ punitive article 89, Disrespect toward a superior commisioned officer.


-Justin

[DeathKnight]

[color=crimson]I feel the publicity and statements forced Obama's hand. It's unfortunate that such a strange series of events coalesced into ruining McChrystal's career.

Originally, Hastings (I think that was the name of Rolling Stone's journalist) was supposed to have a limited day or so access to McChrystal in Europe before he flew out to have a very structured, typical interview in Afghanistan for the article. Unfortunately, luck played a hand in the entire affair with the eruption of E-whatever in Iceland and the grounding of flights across Europe (including McChrystal's). Instead of that structured interview, Hastings got to go on a road trip with McChrystal where he picked up those off-the-record moments.

Stupid volcanoes.[/color] Edited June 30, 2010 by DeathKnight

[Justin]

[quote name='DeathKnight' date='30 June 2010 - 10:01 PM' timestamp='1277931716' post='696224']
[color=crimson]I feel the publicity and statements forced Obama's hand. It's unfortunate that such a strange series of events coalesced into ruining McChrystal's career.

Originally, Hastings (I think that was the name of Rolling Stone's journalist) was supposed to have a limited day or so access to McChrystal in Europe before he flew out to have a very structured, typical interview in Afghanistan for the article. Unfortunately, luck played a hand in the entire affair with the eruption of E-whatever in Iceland and the grounding of flights across Europe (including McChrystal's). Instead of that structured interview, Hastings got to go on a road trip with McChrystal where he picked up those off-the-record moments.

Stupid volcanoes.[/color]
[/quote]

I was honestly wondering how it came about. It seemed so incredibly ad hoc. Not your typical interview with a general officer, in any position, and regardless of content. Still, though, impromptu or not, he more or less fucked himself.

Military Reactions to Questions 101: Everything's good, everyone's great, no one is mad, and no one is late.

-Justin Edited July 1, 2010 by Justin