We See How It Is

[Allamorph]

[FONT=Calibri][i]According to Amnesty International, people living in the Niger Delta
have experienced oil spills on par with the Exxon Valdez disaster
every year for the last half century.[/i]

[url="http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/africa/06/29/nigeria.oil/index.html"]Article[/url]. (CNN)

In short, Nigeria's calling the US out over the late BP oil fiasco, essentially saying "if this is such a major environmental disaster then why aren't you helping [i]us[/i] out?" For perspective, the nine- to thirteen-million barrels of oil mentioned in the article translates to about 378- to 546-million gallons of oil spilled in the Niger delta, compared to the 184-million gallons spilled in the gulf (figure taken from [url="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_gulf_oil_spill"]here[/url]).

So is this just another country trying to ride on the US's financial coattails (such as they are) or should the EPA be down in Niger raising Cain as well?

Or have we become a culture who only gets intense when our internal political quibbles and agendas can be serviced?[/FONT]

[Korey]

[Font=Garamond]Last time I checked, the Niger delta doesn't border the US.

So, the US shouldn't spread itself even more thin in order to spread good will across the world. The US has enough problems with the Gulf Spill that actually affect Americans. Although, the Obama administration might view this as a point to get brownie points in the World Stage. [/font]

[Raiha]

[quote name='Allamorph' date='23 July 2010 - 07:58 AM' timestamp='1279897108' post='697697']
[font="Calibri"]Or have we become a culture who only gets intense when our internal political quibbles and agendas can be serviced?[/font]
[/quote]

[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"][color="#9932cc"]
We have most assuredly been a culture who only gets intense when our internal political quibbles and agendas can be serviced. For quite some time now really. Niger isn't close enough or viable enough for us to give a rat's ass, as a country anyway. Plus there's the added bonus of it being in Africa, and we all know that only movie stars, Bono, and AIDS activists care about what goes on in that continent.

And it's Amnesty International. They too have their agenda to serve, regardless of what socially correct flag they wave over their heads.[/color][/size][/font]

[PiroMunkie]

[size=1]I'm not going to sit here and pretend I keep up with the latest world news and politics, but it seems their oil spills have very little, if nothing, to do with us as a country. Why don't we help them out? Is it an oil tanker painted with stars and stripes blaring the 'Star-Spangled Banner' and carrying American passengers that cause the spills? Exactly. Are we asking for help from countries whose waters weren't polluted from the BP spill? I doubt it. It's an "environmental disaster" as they put it, not an international incident (barring neighboring Gulf countries).

Why is it such a big deal when it happens to us, when apparently it's been happening there for so long? Because we can afford to make it a big deal.

I can't see the US Government taking the resources to help the situation in the Niger Delta. Maybe some American-based philanthropies will pop up ... though probably not until the dust settles in the Gulf. I imagine a lot of people won't see the point in helping clean up another country's mess regardless of how long it's been going on when we have the same or similar problem facing us right now.[/size] Edited July 23, 2010 by PiroMunkie

[CaNz]

I would say that the biggest part of the oil spil problem was not the oil itself, it was the governments inability to solve this problem in a timly matter. for quite a long time it seemed like our government couldnt do anything about it at all. the oil spill was a big issue, but we could barly help ourselves let alone an area across the globe. if we were to do anything at all, it should only be setting up a program for people to donate funds... we are trying to rid ourselves of thissesion thing, and we could benifit from working on our own problems first.

as to why they are bringing this up now, I have no idea... if it is as bad as they say, environmentalists would have jumped all over it. of course they would also demand reform of polocy... so drawing attention before now may not be what they were looking for. polotical motives are just as polluted as the waters.

[Inuyasha Fandom]

I only know this :

[IMG]http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/inufandom/129198884038926871.jpg[/IMG]

I am so tired of hearing about it, we're only concerned because of the greedy corporate bastards in charge right now. They could give two flying leaps less about the ocean or the environment.

Let me know when we get some people who care in office and then I'll care. Untill then, I will continue to save my money so I can go and help clean it up myself. Edited July 24, 2010 by AvalonAngel

[Heaven's Cloud]

[color=indigo]
Note â?? Huge incoherent rant below

First, and most obvious, the US is not Nigeria. If Nigeria is having continuous problems with oil spills then it is up to their country and government to address those issues, not the US. If they are lacking the funds needed for the clean up they can do what every third world country doesâ?¦beg at the steps of first world countries.

Second, the US government did not solve the crisis in the gulf. The US government did exactly what it should have (well, exactly what it should have after the oil rig was damaged, they sure as hell didnâ??t do well in regulating oil wells before hand), it applied a ton of pressure on BP to use the best scientists and engineers that they could muster to stop the oil flow and fix the mess. While I am sure the US government spent millions on the disaster (deploying coast guard and scientists) , they forced BP to spend billions on solving the problem and will force them to spend billions more in retribution.

Contrary to what many media outlets (at least in the US) would have you believe there was a reason it took BP so long to find a solution that worked. They used methods that they thought would work in an order that would cause the least amount of ecological damage if they failed. In other words, they realized that if the top kill didnâ??t work the consequences werenâ??t too detrimental. However, had the latest cap failed a rupture would have likely occurred in a different location, making the situation astronomically worse.

Now, I am by no means defending BP. They, and every other oil company, should have viable solutions ready in case an event occurs like the one in the gulf.

Finally, I am tired of hearing about how the US doesnâ??t care about Africa. There are plenty of people in the US who care about Africa. They organize conferences, send tons of aid and medicine, and even come and teach people in poor regions how to properly irrigate their lands so they can have sustainable crops. You know who doesnâ??t care about Africa? Me. I am tired of Africa. Well not all of Africa, there are a lot of stable, beautiful countries in Africa. But I am tired of the Nigerias, the Darfurs, and the Rawnadas. Developed nations poor aid into these regions, we back these so called â??progressiveâ? political regimes that state that they want the best for the people. But when the dust clears and the wars are over they end up being just another group of despots, another group of rapists and murderers that care more about tribal/religious grudges than prosperity. It is getting old, it is time to let Africa figure out Africa.[/color]

[Korey]

[quote name='Inuyasha Fandom' date='24 July 2010 - 10:31 AM' timestamp='1279960280' post='697742']

Let me know when we get some people who care in office and then I'll care. [/quote]

[font="Garamond"]

Have you been following the disaster at all? President Obama and the various agenices involved in Congress acted pretty swiftly (when possible) when it came to dealing with BP and getting the proper people in place to assess the disaster and provide aid to the literally millions of people on the Gulf Coast Area that were/are going to be affected by this particular oil spill. Bubba Gump is not a happy camper right now.

Also, how quickly do people expect aid from the government when something like this happens? Usually when a disaster happens, you have to assess the total damage before deciding on the most appropriate (and most-cost effective) solution to a problem. It's not like the government can drop what they're doing and run to the Gulf and spend whatever sum of money that environmentalists decide to conjure up.[/font]

[quote=Heaven's Cloud]Second, the US government did not solve the crisis in the gulf. The US government did exactly what it should have (well, exactly what it should have after the oil rig was damaged, they sure as hell didnâ??t do well in regulating oil wells before hand), it applied a ton of pressure on BP to use the best scientists and engineers that they could muster to stop the oil flow and fix the mess. While I am sure the US government spent millions on the disaster (deploying coast guard and scientists) , they forced BP to spend billions on solving the problem and will force them to spend billions more in retribution. [/quote]

[font="Garamond"]The government gets blamed for not regulating BP better and following protocols for inspecting them, but ultimately it's up to the oil companies themselves to accurately and correctly report their goings on. BP did not do that. They are a private company that is operating in international waters (given the US is right there too, but no one says it's OUR Gulf.....) and no one government can keep 100% tabs. There's a certain amount of trust that has to go on between the two parties.[/font]

[eleanor]

OT and I didn't read through this thread sorry, my 2 cents

It wasn't the US government's fault that BP took so long to stop the spill. There was relatively little they could do, other than loom menacingly over BP's shoulder

[CaNz]

i just dont see how oil spills should be allowed to happen in this day and age... the stuff is waaaay to valuable to allow even the slightest chance for spilling, and to top it all off the environment doesn't work well with oil covering the gulf. i'm not saying that the government should be held accountable for BPs actions... but they should be blamed for the standards in place currently. why did the scientists have to find a way to stop the spill when we know that a spill can happen? you would think that they would already have numerous solutions already available to deploy in case of a spill rather then scramble (if that's what you call what they did) to find a working solution. Edited July 25, 2010 by CaNz

[The Spectacular Professor]

[font="Comic Sans MS"]Oil spills are an inherent risk in oil drilling, the same way nicking the wrong artery is an inherent risk in performing surgery and various food-borne illness scares that cause people to swear off pork for about a week before forgetting the whole thing and hitting their local Famous Dave's is an inherent risk of raising pigs. No system is failsafe, and it's unlikely that any system ever will be. That's just the way this stuff works. Sure, there are procedures to ensure that this stuff happens less often, but the thing about odds is that they basically just determine how long it will take for something bad to go down.

That being said, what we can do about this stuff is exactly what CaNz said; figure out how to fix it before it breaks. Add an extra valve, come up with a plan of action, whatever. This stuff needs to be dealt with promptly, and that means being ready for it before it happens, not scrambling around like a bunch of headless chickens while all of your assets and corporate credibility leak out the same pipe dumping gallon after gallon of oil all over the Louisiana coastline.

Speaking of which, I was in New Orleans a couple days ago. The "FUBP" shirts were hilarious.[/font]

[chibi-master]

[quote name='Heaven's Cloud' date='24 July 2010 - 12:32 PM' timestamp='1279989168' post='697758']
[color=indigo]First, and most obvious, the US is not Nigeria. If Nigeria is having continuous problems with oil spills then it is up to their country and government to address those issues, not the US.[/color]
[/quote]
My thoughts exactly.

I haven't kept up with the oil spill enough to give a decent opinion, so I'm not going to make a fool of myself by trying. From what little I do know, however, I think I can say that I'm very annoyed with BP. I'll find out more and be back with a justified opinion.

[James]

[font="Palatino Linotype"]I agree with much of what has been said here. I also agree that the criticism of the U.S. government in terms of its response to the gulf oil spill is, at best, misplaced. You can criticise the lack of regulation or inspection leading up to the spill - that is reasonable. But I don't quite understand why so many people seem to be expecting President Obama to personally fly down and plug the oil spill with his bare hands or something - I'm just not sure what people expect the president to do post-spill, other than apply substantial pressure to BP.

It's ironic that some Americans don't think government has any responsibility for healthcare, yet they expect government to bear so much responsibility for an enormous natural disaster. Weird.[/font]

[quote]But I am tired of the Nigerias, the Darfurs, and the Rawnadas.[/quote]

[font=palatino linotype]You'll find, in the case of the Rwanda genocide at least, that it was actually a major western church that played a very substantial role in supporting the violence. Sometimes western involvement in the internal politics of African countries creates an initial problem that we must then sometimes take responsibility for (in some measure) later on.

In any case, I'm of mixed view when it comes to Nigerian oil. On the one hand, if you are a big purchaser of their oil, I think it's fair to expect you to have some involvement in how that oil is procured and to be involved with the associated risks to a degree.

On the other hand, it's very easy to actually blame America or any other western power for what is essentially a domestic law and order problem. Sure, support the Nigerian government to do its job - but be prepared to blame that government when the money disappears through a complex system of corruption, rather than being used to ensure the safety of oil lines.[/font]

[Gavin]

[font="Tahoma"][size="2"]lolwut ?

I see they've finally got tired of email scamming, pity I can't see this bold new attempt to secure finance working out very well.[/size][/font]

[Rachmaninoff]

[quote name='James' date='27 July 2010 - 01:03 AM' timestamp='1280214202' post='697986']
[font="Palatino Linotype"] It's ironic that some Americans don't think government has any responsibility for healthcare, yet they expect government to bear so much responsibility for an enormous natural disaster. Weird.[/font][/quote]
[font="Trebuchet MS"]Plenty of us Americans, as it were, find that equally as weird.

Anyway, can't say I see why we're supposed to fix their problem for them.
[/font]