Anime Fansubs: Good or Bad?

[Sangome]

[quote name='The Tentacle' timestamp='1294862269' post='703845']My question is "why?" though.  [/quote]

[color="#9932CC"][font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]Two words: it's free.

I'm sure you know that, and I'm sure all of us posting know that, and no, it doesn't justify it at all. But sometimes, there's no ulterior motive, no sinister plot to bring down the R1 industry, no trollin', no nothin'. Some people might not be able to afford it, but a lot of times, people are just [i]that[/i] cheap.

Granted, some could say the same for those that choose to legally stream anime. But again, if it's legal, the companies are getting revenue, making the point moot.[/font][/color] Edited January 12, 2011 by Sangome

[The Spectacular Professor]

[quote name='rotlung' timestamp='1294753252' post='703799']1. words like Nakama don't have good translation in english. Literally translated it means friend (which is what One Piece uses in Dubbing) The word extends to companion, shipmate, partner etc. The subbing site I watch explained this before one of the episodes and that they weren't going to translate Nakama cause it didn't have a good translation.[/quote]

[font="Comic Sans MS"]This isn't preserving the meaning, this is lazy translating. "Nakama" doesn't have a [i]single[/i] English word that acts as a catch-all term just like it, because it means different things in different contexts. Take for example, the English word "mate". It can refer to a friend, an acquaintance or a lover depending on the context in which it is used. The thing is, in every context that the word "nakama" is used, there is a perfectly suitable English language substitute to fit that context. It's not some special magical term that describes a level of companionship that's exclusive to the Japanese, it's just a general term that fansubbers are too lazy to apply any context to.[/font]

[quote name='rotlung' timestamp='1294753252' post='703799']2 vulger and curse words. In dubbing they intend most anime to be for kids. They exclude and rewrite things so they can be marketed to US childern. I remember watching DBZ uncut when I was in High school and my jaw dropped how much they cursed and the gore that when along with that series. Sexual situtions also fall into this catagory. [/quote]

[font="Comic Sans MS"]It's a secret to everyone!

[spoiler]In Japan, most anime is intended for children.[/spoiler]

Yes, there is hentai. Yes, there are adult-geared anime, but barring those exceptions, most anime is considered family-friendly. Heck, let's go back to [b]One Piece[/b] for this one. It's got blood, fanservice, dark themes, sex jokes, etc. You know who the target demographic is? 10-16 year old boys. same with [b]DBZ[/b], [b]Naruto[/b], [b]Fullmetal Alchemist[/b], the list goes on. This stuff may not be appropriate for kids that age in the US, but that's an issue of cultural differences. Japan basically runs under the assumption that an adult is supervising during TV time, so they're allowed to show more blood and such because they believe there's someone around to tell the kid why the shouldn't go out and stab people. Not that that's always the case or that Americans never do that, but the joke does go that our kids are being babysat by the Teletubbies.

As for the swearing, a good, heavy chunk of anything stronger than "damn" that you'll come across in a fan sub was [i]not in the original script[/i]. They were added for "flavor" by, once again, lazy fansubbers. Not to say that there aren't good, hardworking groups out there, but in general I find that a lot of misconceptions people have about language in anime comes from some lazy yuk who thought dropping the F-bomb in place of a simple "No way!" would make him more hardcore. In all honesty, Japanese is a very "polite" language. Rather than individual words, most rudeness comes across in the form of entire sentence structures and dialects. Think back to your teacher and "don't take that tone with me". That's pretty much how it works.[/font]


[quote name='rotlung' timestamp='1294753252' post='703799']3. The fan sub work hard on some translations. In one episode of Black Lagoon, there is a part where the bad guy starts speaking spanish (It was another launguge than Japenese, can't remember 100%) He has this whole speech that reminded me of Boondock Saints, and at the end of the video there was a message that thanked several people helping him correctly translate the Spanish part due to how fast it was spoken and it's complicity.
[/quote]

[font="Comic Sans MS"]This is a given, and it's the same for dubbing companies. Case in point: FUNimation vs. 4Kids Entertainment. One works hard to keep the spirit intact, the other mines for marketability and strips away the show's soul.

The thing is, dubbing companies are getting paid for it. They have more incentive to get it right. Therefore, they're more likely to try.[/font]

[The Tentacle]

[quote name='Katana' timestamp='1294868911' post='703846']
[size="1"][color="royalblue"]Fansubs, on the other hand, aren't like that. The subbers didn't [i]make[/i] the anime (or draw the manga). They didn't write the stories. They didn't do the voice acting. All they're doing is translating it. But their motivation, I believe, is still pretty much the same; they're doing what they're doing out of love for the show and wanting to spread it to the masses. The problem is that they're not promoting people to watch the product, they're just giving out the product.[/color][/size][/quote]

[color="#000000"][font="Arial"][size="2"]Yeah but that's like comparing a full-length novel written by a veteran author to a piece of fanfiction written by a teenager. My issue with this is that the fansubs being produced[/size][/font][/color][color="#000000"][font="Arial"][size="2"] [/size][/font][/color][color="#000000"][font="Arial"][size="2"]aren't of the same quality as the official ones.  Nor are they dubbed in English and, in the case of the limited number of fandubs, the talents of the dubbers can't compete with those of a professional voice actor/actress. It's just the same as s[/size][/font][/color][color="#000000"][font="Arial"][size="2"]ubtitling done by college students as opposed to professional writers.  It's that level of quality that I'm willing to pay for.[/size][/font][/color]

[color="#000000"][font="Arial"][size="2"]Not only that but even if they were comparible and the fansubs had superb audio/visual capacity there's still the fact that I don't want to sit in front of my computer to watch anime [/size][/font][/color][font="Arial"][size="2"]when I have a perfectly good home theatre system set up in my living room right in front of a big comfortable recliner.[/size][/font][color="#000000"][font="Arial"][size="2"]  [/size][/font][/color][font="Arial"][size="2"]Having to resort to torrenting my anime and then storing it on my hard drive [/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="2"]would be just as inconvenient to me as asking someone who only watches fansubs to drive to the Best Buy and purchase box sets of their favorite series from now on.[/size][/font]

[color="#000000"][font="Arial"][size="2"]Overall fansubs aren't a product I'm the least bit interested in.  [/size][/font][/color][font="Arial"][size="2"] [/size][/font][font="Arial"]  [/font] Edited January 12, 2011 by The Tentacle

[Katana]

[size=1][color=royalblue]Not the point I raised. What I tried to do was answer the questions you brought up, and the main one to handle was "why do they do this?" I still hold by my answer that they do it because they like the series and want to spread it to others who don't understand Japanese. This is relatable to those who draw fanart or write fanfiction - they are doing what they do because the enjoy the show and want to "honor" it somehow.

[b]But[/b], it's not the same. Me giving you a poster of the show and then me just plain giving you [i]the[/i] show are two different things. [b]That[/b] is the difference and where the legality issues come into play.

I'm not saying fansubs are better than professional version. I'd rather have a dub anyway.

(Oh, but that does remind me, there are a lot of series that have novelizations for them. I'm sitting on one right now, hello - [i]Doctor Who: The Glamour Chase[/i] by Gary Russell. Very well written, as are all the novels I've read so far for [i]Doctor Who[/i], but not the complete creation of the author. It's basically published fanfiction, but it is very good.)[/color][/size]

[The Tentacle]

I see what you're saying and I agree with all of it.  I was just trying to segue into another tirade.  Sorry 'bout that.  >__>

Anyway, going back to a prior post I broached the subject of what the future holds for both the industry and fansubbers.  I think that's a topic worth discussing as well.  Where do the rest of you see the anime industry five years from now?

Personally I'm seeing a lot of business moving into the online streaming market.  I just hope anime will still be available for purchase on solid media if it comes to that.  Fansubbers might also see a decline in support and a few of the major sites may be shut down to divert attention to legitimate sites.  

That's what I see on the horizon.  How about the rest of you?

[Desbreko]

[quote name='The Tentacle' timestamp='1294862269' post='703845']My question is "why?" though. What do fansubbers get from all of this? What's their goal? Seems like a lot of work for little reward and could also land them in a lot of trouble with the law to boot. Will fansubbing stop if series being aired in Japan are simulcast internationally via online streaming? Will fans be willing to pay for online anime if legitimate sites offer them the same services as fansubbers but with a higher level of quality?

As long as fansubs exist I would expect people to choose them over an officially licensed product. But I'm curious as to how much longer fansubbers will keep plying their trade. If the concept of online streaming was indeed brought about to compete with them it might very well be the fansubbers who will go the way of the dinosaur as licensing companies flex their corporate muscles and take over what has, until now, been their domain.[/quote]
[color=#4B0082]A lot of fansubbers do it because they just enjoy fansubbing, as Katana said. A lot also do it because they don't want to wait for a show to get licensed and eventually released in their country. Some do it because a show doesn't have any official translation available in their country at all and is unlikely to be licensed. (Even among English fansubbers, there's a lot outside of North America. So even if a US company picks up a show, it doesn't necessarily mean everyone who wants to watch it in English will be able to legally.) Some do it because they think they can do a better job in some way than the official release. (An example would be R1 DVDs that have inferior video quality compared to the Japanese R2 releases, leading to groups ripping the R2 video and fansubbing it.) Some do it for the e-peen of having their releases downloaded by thousands of people. Some do it simply because they don't want to pay for anime, for sure. A few even do it to spite the companies that put out officially licensed releases, which has its own set of reasons.

Regarding the rise of official streaming and simulcasts, that has indeed had an effect on fansubbing. There tend to be fewer fansub releases of shows that are being simulcast than there normally would be. And if Crunchyroll can find a different business model that doesn't delay being able to watch new episodes unless you pay, I'm sure it would be even more effective at cutting down on fansubs.[/color]