Osama bin Laden Offically Killed

[Kei]

[url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/osama-bin-laden-is-killed-by-us-forces-in-pakistan/2011/05/01/AFXMZyVF_story.html"]Complete story from the Washington Post[/url]

[url="http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/02/bin.laden.dead/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1"]CNN coverage[/url]

[url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/obama-announced-osama-bin-laden-is-dead-unedited-announcement/2011/05/02/AFqAP4VF_video.html"]Video of President Obama's Sunday night address announcing bin Laden's death[/url]

[url="http://cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2011/05/02/vo.bin.laden.compound.fire.geotv"]Video of bin Laden's destroyed mansion in Pakistan[/url]


[font="Tahoma"][color="#000080"]So they finally actually got him. Almost ten years after the 9/11 attacks, eight years after "Mission Accomplished", two wars, and a lot of stress, lost soldiers, lost lives (even prior to 9/11) and tons of other things, American troops finally got him.

Kinda can't blame the folks in NYC and Washington celebrating in the streets, really.

(Fun fact that was brought to my attention: Adolf Hitler's death was announced on May 1, 1945. Freaky.)[/color][/font]

[Gavin]

[font="Tahoma"][size="2"]Congrats America, you deserve it.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie_R1H9L4eI[/media][/size][/font] Edited May 2, 2011 by Gavin

[Felix the Cat]

What I dislike is that there's already conspiracies about his death being faked so President Obama would increase his amount of voters. Seriously, do you have nothing better to worry about?

[CaNz]

Of course Republican party members will claim that the Obama campaign faked it all to bolster support, and of course Democratic party members will try to make Obama out to be the hero who did this all by himself.
The one thing more important than avenging the deaths of the 3,000 people who died in in 9/11 is to keep bickering amongst ourselves.

Anyways I am glad they finally got him. This will bring piece of mind to the people who were effected by the attacks on 9/11.

[Allamorph]

[quote name='Kei'][font="Tahoma"][color="#000080"]So they finally actually got him. Almost ten years after the 9/11 attacks, eight years after "Mission Accomplished", two wars, and a lot of stress, lost soldiers, lost lives (even prior to 9/11) and tons of other things, American troops finally got him.

Kinda can't blame the folks in NYC and Washington celebrating in the streets, really.[/color][/font][/quote]
[font="Calibri"]Yeah, because nothing proves we were in the right and they were in the wrong like perpetuating hatred.

[b]Edit:[/b] I also love how this thread is immediately deteriorating into a partisan ****-slinging extravaganza. Can we lay off the political party issue for one thread? Please?
[/font] Edited May 2, 2011 by Allamorph

[SunfallE]

[color="#4169E1"][font="Lucida Sans Unicode"]Well I'm not going to go out and celebrate over this, but I am glad they finally got some form of resolution out of it.

In other news, this article about it is interesting, take a look.

[url="http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2011/05/sohaib-athar-the-guy-who-liveblogged-the-osama-bin-laden-raid-without-knowing-it-mohcin-shah.html"]Osama bin Laden raid live tweeted[/url]

Not gonna lie, the giant swatter bit made me laugh. [/font][/color]

[Sangome]

[quote name='Allamorph' timestamp='1304356540' post='707028']
[font="Calibri"][b]Edit:[/b] I also love how this thread is immediately deteriorating into a partisan ****-slinging extravaganza. Can we lay off the political party issue for one thread? Please?[/font]
[/quote]

[color="#9932CC"][font="Microsoft Sans Serif"][i]Thank you.[/i]

While I'm not going to go out and parade in the streets either, an evil man is gone from the world. I'm glad it's finally resolved, although the war is far from over.[/font][/color] Edited May 2, 2011 by Sangome

[Korey]

[quote name='Allamorph' timestamp='1304356540' post='707028']
[font="Calibri"]Yeah, because nothing proves we were in the right and they were in the wrong like perpetuating hatred.

[b]Edit:[/b] I also love how this thread is immediately deteriorating into a partisan ****-slinging extravaganza. Can we lay off the political party issue for one thread? Please?
[/font]
[/quote]
[font="Tahoma"]
Welcome to modern societal bandwagon thinking? Carry on, I see no wrongdoing in letting that train of thought continue. As misguided and far-fetched from the actual point as it may be, it's still a part of the issue.[/font]

[Boo]

Meh. It's probably a load of bollocks, but the idea is nice.

Also,
[quote=CaNz]The one thing more important than avenging the deaths of the 3,000 people who died in in 9/11 is to keep bickering amongst ourselves. [/quote]
avenging/vengeance is something supposed to be kept personal and not political.. When you throw nations into war for vengeance, gfy. However, the term [i]Justice[/i] gets you a long way.

[The Spectacular Professor]

[quote name='Felix the Cat' timestamp='1304347862' post='707026']
What I dislike is that there's already conspiracies about his death being faked so President Obama would increase his amount of voters. Seriously, do you have nothing better to worry about?
[/quote]
[font="Comic Sans MS"]I think Obama deserves more credit than that. Seems to me that if that were his motivation, he'd have done it, I dunno, closer to election time?

Oh well, you've got idiots in every walk of life, that doesn't mean they represent the attitude of their entire group. It's just a pity that they have to be the most vocal ones.[/font]

[Boo]

[quote name='The Professor' timestamp='1304369489' post='707034']
[font="Comic Sans MS"]I think Obama deserves more credit than that. Seems to me that if that were his motivation, he'd have done it, I dunno, closer to election time?[/font][/quote]
Naw, he needs some highlights spread throughout his career. :v He doesn't have too much going for him so far. This way people can look back and be like "Oh see? Obama finished what Bush started and spent all his presidential hours on!"

Also, it seems to have taken the camera off of Gadaffi's son being killed in an airstrike.

[CaNz]

[quote name='Boo' timestamp='1304368356' post='707033']
Meh. It's probably a load of bollocks, but the idea is nice.

Also,

avenging/vengeance is something supposed to be kept personal and not political.. When you throw nations into war for vengeance, gfy. However, the term [i]Justice[/i] gets you a long way.
[/quote]
What did you think the war was about? We were mad because we were attacked. I am calling it like it is. Justice is a matter of point of view, vengeance is a term used to describe someone doing something because they feel they were wronged. I don't want to argue with anyone about how killing a man can be considered just (though I think in this particular case it was), but I will assure anyone that the people who lost friends and family to that man felt wronged... and when they were told that he was dead, they probably felt a bit better. Edited May 3, 2011 by CaNz

[Kei]

[quote name='Allamorph' timestamp='1304356540' post='707028']
[font="Calibri"]Yeah, because nothing proves we were in the right and they were in the wrong like perpetuating hatred.[/font]
[/quote]

[font="Tahoma"][color="#000080"]I was not attempting to do any such thing. Forgive me for an apparent poor choice of words.[/color][/font]

[James]

[quote name='Boo' timestamp='1304368356' post='707033']


avenging/vengeance is something supposed to be kept personal and not political.. When you throw nations into war for vengeance, gfy. However, the term [i]Justice[/i] gets you a long way.
[/quote]

[font=palatino linotype]I think you are misreading this if you simply interpret it as vengeance. In terms of Osama bin Laden specifically, my understanding is that there was actually a preference to capture him alive; that certainly would have been the better outcome in terms of the psychological impact for his followers.

However, that simply wasn't possible in the scenario that the Pentagon have described. There was a firefight and in that fight, bin Laden was killed.

I don't think anyone can escape the idea that Osama bin Laden has met [i]some form[/i] of justice here. In any case, he's now gone and the world is probably better off as a result. He was not only the chief operational person within Al-Qaeda, but he was also its chief financier.

I have no doubt that he has contingency plans in the event of his death, but nonetheless, the world is at least now free of one more cruel and backwards criminal.[/font]

[Allamorph]

[quote name='Ventura'][font="Comic Sans MS"]Seems to me that if that were his motivation, he'd have done it, I dunno, closer to election time?[/font][/quote]
[FONT=Calibri]I think Obama deserves a little more credit than that. The closer you get to the actual date, the more it looks like a stunt, don't you think? I mean, since you [i]did[/i] put it that way....[/FONT]

[quote name='Kei'][font="Tahoma"][color="#000080"]I was not attempting to do any such thing. Forgive me for an apparent poor choice of words.[/color][/font][/quote]
[FONT=Calibri]I know. The unfortunate part of being the OP for this is ... well, you're the OP. Ergo.



Let me put it this way. Am I glad an evil man is gone from this world? Yes. Am I glad that this blow (if it is true) may very well break the back of [i]al Qaeda[/i]? Sure. Am I glad that the families of those who perished in the bombing of the Twin Towers can feel some measure of closure, if this is what they wanted? Absolutely.

Why are we celebrating death?

More to the point, why are we celebrating [i]murder[/i]?[/FONT]

[James]

[quote name='Allamorph' timestamp='1304383828' post='707045']
[FONT=Calibri]
Why are we celebrating death?

More to the point, why are we celebrating [i]murder[/i]?[/FONT]
[/quote]

[font=palatino linotype]I think it's obvious as to why people are celebrating the death of Osama bin Laden specifically (and you've answered that in your own post very well).

But as to the specific question of why people think it's okay to celebrate [i]any[/i] death? I can't really answer that because I'm not one of them. I do think there is something slightly wrong with actually being jubilant about any death, which is why I think Obama did the right thing by making the announcement with an appropriately somber tone.[/font]

[chibi-master]

I'm going to be an ignorant person here for a moment and enjoy the fact that Bin Laden's dead. I won't deny it. I grinned ear to ear when I found out, and I'm tired of listening to all the self-righteous people on their high horses that say I shouldn't have. I'm glad he's dead and I'm glad it was a bullet that did him in. Yeah, it's not right on my part, but I don't really care and I'll party with my friends about this if I so wish.

[PiroMunkie]

[color="#006400"]I was pretty indifferent when I heard about this. Unless Al-Qaeda magically dissolves because of his death, the long search and capture of Osama is really nothing more than a revenge plot. It's certainly a boost of morale for many, but it doesn't mean the war is over.

I also thought it was pretty bold for the U.S. to claim the body and bury it on their own terms.[/color]

[Felix the Cat]

Al-Qaeda will most definitely not dissolve due to losing one man, who might as well just have been a spokesman to the outside world, a marionette so to speak.
Anyways, their morale might have been damped, however I have yet to see whether that did any good, since an act of aggression rarely ends a 10 year old feud.

As always, just my thoughts.

@ Alla, because I don't know how to quote in the middle of posts:

I find it funny that I asked Molly that exact death question about 6 hours ago.

[James]

[quote name='PiroMunkie' timestamp='1304399423' post='707056']
[color="#006400"]

I also thought it was pretty bold for the U.S. to claim the body and bury it on their own terms.[/color]
[/quote]

[font=palatino linotype]What are they supposed to do, honestly? No nations they contacted wanted to take it.

As for going after bin Laden, I think that if you equate this to any other conflict, it would be the equivalent of Adolf Hitler or Emperor Hirohito facing some sort of consequences as leaders of particular movements. Sure, you can argue that removing Hitler or Hirohito alone won't solve the problem, but these are men who directly ordered and sanctioned particular actions for which there is obviously a penalty.

As it turns out though, Hirohito and his family got off very lightly considering the horrors they caused. [/font]

[CaNz]

[quote name='Allamorph' timestamp='1304383828' post='707045'] [font="Calibri"]
More to the point, why are we celebrating [i]murder[/i]?[/font]
[/quote]
Okay, this really is insulting.
The people who killed Osama were not murderers, they were United States Navy Seals. The team was under orders of the president and we are currently fighting a war on terrorism. Besides, even if he was stabbed in the back in his sleep, we are not celebrating the act of murder, many Americans are celebrating the fact that a horrible man is dead. I think most people could care less about how it happened, they are just glad it finally did happen.

This does not seem like one of those gray area cases to me. I don't like killing and I doubt any of you here do either, but if he didn't die, can anyone assure me that he wouldn't try to kill more people?
show me a country where a man kill 3000 people and not be either executed or spend the rest of his life in jail when he is caught. I don't mind people celebrating either. For the first time I think the world can agree that something good came out of the war on terror.

[James]

[font=palatino linotype]I don't think "murder" is actually the right word, technically. Maybe "homicide" is the more accurate word, although that word is generally not associated with deaths in a war situation. I would say that if you want to get technical, Osama bin Laden is actually a [i][url="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/casualty"]casualty[/url][/i].

But I do agree there is something slightly macabre about celebrating a death. It's just...odd, in principle, no matter who the actual person involved is. [/font]

[PiroMunkie]

[quote name='Felix the Cat' timestamp='1304399904' post='707057']Al-Qaeda will most definitely not dissolve due to losing one man, who might as well just have been a spokesman to the outside world, a marionette so to speak.[/quote][color="#006400"]
Yeah, this was exactly my sentiment. I heard someone call him "the face of terrorism," basically defining him as the person in Al-Qaeda with the most PR, lol. I don't doubt that he had influence or leadership within the organization, but I think we'd sooner see him praised as a martyr before anything.[/color]


[quote name='James' timestamp='1304403354' post='707059']
[font=palatino linotype]What are they supposed to do, honestly? No nations they contacted wanted to take it.[/font][/quote][color="#006400"]
I don't know, I agree with it to a point, and part of me was surprised they even bothered to give him a proper burial. I also read that, in addition to no country wanting to take him, they were worried about a physical grave for Osama becoming a shrine to those who agreed with him.

Though I've read an article or two suggesting that the way he was buried might actually anger some Muslims. That a burial at sea is only done in extreme cases, which some don't agree that this was one; and just because it was done as part of tradition, doesn't mean it was done [i]properly[/i] or according to Islamic law. Though in this light it seems it's more [i]how[/i] he was buried and less about who buried him that might cause some reprisal.


But overall I'm sort of torn between the idea that he should have just been dumped overboard, or that even the most atrocious people deserve a proper burial.[/color] Edited May 3, 2011 by PiroMunkie

[Sangome]

[color="#9932CC"][font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]I kinda think they threw him overboard precisely because A. No place in their right mind would give him a proper burial [not without severe stigma from the rest of the world] and B. They just wanted the satisfaction of tossing him overboard in hopes of him getting eaten by a shark. The "Islamic tradition" thing was probably just an excuse. :P

As for "celebrating a death"...I...I'm not really sure. While I agree the concept of it is rather dark, and the people celebrating certainly do have an extremely valid excuse, I myself would feel very odd if I went out and rejoiced in the streets. He was an atrocious person, he had it coming, but I just don't think I could do it. Maybe I'd feel differently if I had lost a loved one on 9/11.

That said, I also think calling it "murder" isn't the right word for it, either. I think the others have summed it up better than I could.[/font][/color]

[RedJ]

[color="#FF0000"]So guys, did you know that Bin Laden is de-
owait.[/color]