OBAMA

[Boo]

I've just read another article on how the [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/24/business/oil-reserves-sidestep-us-vessels.html"]Obama administration bypassed federal law[/url], and I thought I'd make a topic of it to hear people's opinions on Obama.

He was pretty much the hype of the 21st century so far, promising fantastically fantastic things, and being black. Anyway, over the past month, the media have been slowly but steadily been criticising more and more and it seems they have tasted blood because they cannot seem to let go. Not that I myself mind much because seeing American presidents get bombarded is my favourite pastime. However, I figured some of you may disagree. So this topic is [b]ALL ABOUT OBAMA[/b]. Yay!

Honestly, I stepped in with "Obama is just a slave of Wall Street" and since then I just started giggling to the point of long fits of violent laughter. The latter probably started at the point where he went all nuts on traveling to Mars because it would be this generation's Moonlanding, and it would be great for America!
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Animated-Flag-USA.gif[/img]

Anyway, one of the other main reasons he gave for his plans was that it would create job opportunities, which was when I started laughing. The whole Mars mission is more like Obama ordering the building of a huge golden statue of Obama with an African spear in his hand and 20 foot diamonds for nipples, and then saying it allows for job opportunities because people will have to build it and clean it and everything. It's a crock of ***, that's what it is. I think many people would appreciate it if he'd now stop trying to score points and instead just do his job.

But now you! :^D FOR EXAMPLE:
- Obama fantastic?
- Is it okay to continually bypass laws as a means to an end?
- Mars mission?
- Bad choice for president? Edited August 24, 2011 by dark_apocalyps

[CaNz]

Okay, well, because I am an idiot I will post in your stupid thread.

- Obama fantastic? The general consensus were I was deemed Obama to be better than John McCain, the republican counterpart... It wasn't like we had the greatest people to choose from since in order to run for president you need to be rich, or in polotics already. I do think he has pushed us forward rather than backwards though. Aside from being downgraded, (which wasn't his fault) the unemployment rate has gone down and the recession seems to be fading... though it has taken a very long time, and more money than we should have spent.

- Is it okay to continually bypass laws as a means to an end? If it helps people than yes. The end goal of a leader should ALWAYS be to help the people who follow you, and though I am not 100% sure he was trying to help us, I do know that he has in the past. In my opinion, most of the rules we have are idiotic, and they sure as hell don't stop our government from being corrupt as heck.

- Mars mission? I wanna go to mars.

- Bad choice for president? No, He was the ONLY choice for a president. Take a look at John McCain now. He totally changed his image from the nice, agreeable person into a right wing crony. Obama was the better choice and I will stick by it, not just because I voted for him, but because he deserved my vote.

[Boo]

[quote name='CaNz' timestamp='1314192754' post='709060']
Okay, well, because I am an idiot I will post in your stupid thread. [/quote]How is this stupid? :(
[quote name='CaNz' timestamp='1314192754' post='709060']
- Obama fantastic? The general consensus w[b]h[/b]ere I was deemed Obama to be better than John McCain, the republican counterpart... It wasn't like we had the greatest people to choose from since in order to run for president you need to be rich, or in polotics already. I do think he has pushed us forward rather than backwards though. Aside from being downgraded, (which wasn't his fault) the unemployment rate has gone down and the recession seems to be fading... though it has taken a very long time, and more money than we should have spent. [/quote]
The general idea that was rained upon us people outside of the USA was that Obama would be the new black Jesus basically. It has never been a "less of two evils" in his case for most people as far as I know, though I can imagine a lot of people voting "anti-McCain" because that dude is a jerk face.
[quote name='CaNz' timestamp='1314192754' post='709060']
- Is it okay to continually bypass laws as a means to an end? If it helps people than yes. The end goal of a leader should ALWAYS be to help the people who follow you, and though I am not 100% sure he was trying to help us, I do know that he has in the past. In my opinion, most of the rules we have are idiotic, and they sure as hell don't stop our government from being corrupt as heck. [/quote] A lot of laws such as this one are actually made to protect Americans, in this case transport companies. Oil is important business and now Obama has been paying other people instead of his own dear Americans.

[quote name='CaNz' timestamp='1314192754' post='709060']
- Mars mission? I wanna go to mars.[/quote]Meh.
[quote name='CaNz' timestamp='1314192754' post='709060']
- Bad choice for president? No, He was the ONLY choice for a president.
[/quote]But what about Clintonâ?? for example? Before there were more options available. Though true that McCain is a poo.

You dont have to keep to my set of topics though. :^D

[Sangome]

[color="#9932CC"][font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]So all I'm willing to say on the matter is this:

Obama is an Illinois politician. People who have paid attention to that subject [or alternatively have been around my incessant whining] knows how they usually end up. And nothing he has done so far has helped dissuade that fact for me.

And now I must go because talking politics is one of the quickest ways to ruin friendships and make people hate you and I kinda hate politics anyway. KEEP ON TRUCKIN' ILLINOIS[/font][/color] Edited August 24, 2011 by Sangome

[Lyndy]

[quote name='Sangome' timestamp='1314209131' post='709071']
[color="#9932CC"][font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]
Obama is an [i][b]Illinois politician[/b][/i]. People who have paid attention to that subject knows how they usually end up.
[/font][/color]
[/quote]

[color="#008080"][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]lol Rod Blagojevich[/font][/size][/color] Edited August 24, 2011 by Elle Jay

[CaNz]

Heh... Homophones...
I mess those up even when I'm not drinking.

Anyways, I don't really get this hate for Obama... the people who are mad at him are all rich guys. He is spending a ton of money right now, and the only way to keep the country from tanking is taking money from the people that have it all. It really isn't fair since they worked hard to get to where they are (most of the time) but they are not suffering as much as the people who get laid off or lose their homes during the recession.

I don't really care for Hillary Clinton... she has a giant ego that I am sure would further band foreign nations against America. I didn't get to vote during the Presidential candidate nomination assembly but I might have picked Obama if I was old enough. He is a smart guy, and I agreed with everything he stood for while he was campaigning.

I also don't really think that he is a bad president. He certainly didn't get us into a pointless war with Iraq or watch as our banks made ridiculous loans. I think it could have been a lot worse, and there is no candidate at the time that could have done better.

I don't really expect you to watch this either.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix-9A7O9Phg[/media]

[James]

[font="Palatino Linotype"]I was very skeptical about Obama before he was elected, in large part because he pretty much said what people wanted to hear but he did not seem to have a realistic attitude towards certain issues (especially foreign relations).

But after observing his performance since that time, I've been pleasantly surprised. No doubt he has made missteps, as do most leaders at one time or another, but he has really proven himself in a few key areas as well. I think he has performed especially well in terms of foreign relations - he's struck a pretty reasonable balance between involvement and withdrawal.

I don't know who actually [i]believed[/i] that Obama would be a "Black Jesus", but honestly, anyone who truly believed this is already out of the running in terms of intelligence, I think. [i]No[/i] political leader is ever some sort of magical saviour and we should all distance ourselves from that concept from the outset.

There are controversies about some of Obama's policies, particularly the bail-out of the automotive industry. But when people simplify the argument to something like "he gave away billions of dollars to rich automotive companies", they completely and utterly betray their ignorance about economics and the critical supply chain involved with what is one of America's largest industries.

In terms of the space program, I am very mixed on this. From what I've read, George W. Bush's Constellation Program had some big benefits and some big deficits. In some respects it was very bold, but it did involve a lot of new spending.

Obama's program is far, far more conservative than Bush's. However, Obama has obviously made this decision for budgetary reasons.

Having said that, I generally oppose major cuts to the space program. At its most expensive (i.e. during Apollo), the program counted for something like 4% of federal government expenditure. Now it counts for well under 1%. But unfortunately, during times of economic trouble, the space program is one of the first to be cut back. I think that's incredibly myopic (and far too politically easy).[/font]

[quote=dark_apocalyps]Anyway, one of the other main reasons he gave for his plans was that it would create job opportunities, which was when I started laughing. The whole Mars mission is more like Obama ordering the building of a huge golden statue of Obama with an African spear in his hand and 20 foot diamonds for nipples, and then saying it allows for job opportunities because people will have to build it and clean it and everything. It's a crock of ***, that's what it is. I think many people would appreciate it if he'd now stop trying to score points and instead just do his job.[/quote]

[font=palatino linotype]I think you owe it to yourself to have a closer look at the history of the space program (including the cancellation of the more expensive Constellation proposals from the Bush era), before you write-off the new program as an attempt to somehow cheaply glorify Obama himself.

In particular, you need to bear in mind the broader economic context. America, like many developed countries, is no longer a net exporter of manufactured goods. And as time goes on, this will increasingly be the case.

Without a strong manufacturing base, how does America sustain itself? One of the most important ways is to transfer jobs from "making stuff with your hands" to "using your intelligence and scientific training to invent new products/services". I am talking about moving from a manufacturing economy to a service-based economy.

The space program plays a key role in this, because when it is very active, it prompts larger numbers of American students to pursue science at University level. This is fundamentally important, because America will not survive economically if it simply keeps emphasizing industries in which it is uncompetitive.

So, as always, there is a much, much broader context to these things. If you think the space program exists in isolation, then you are missing a much broader point.

[b]Edit:[/b] I nearly forgot to mention something very important in relation to this. The Obama proposals call for a much greater reliance on the private sector for space flight and space transport. The idea is to reduce the impact on NASA's budget, while increasing its mission flexibility. The side benefit of all this is that there are now many private companies competing for NASA contracts. These companies are spending billions on R&D, which benefits NASA and which creates large numbers of private sector jobs.

So, again, whether you agree or not, there's a much larger set of issues involved than just "Oh let's fly to Mars because everyone will think I'm cool". Bear in mind, too, that Obama isn't calling for a Mars landing until the mid-2030's, from memory. I doubt he'll be heavily credited at that time.[/font]

[Allamorph]

[center][img]http://cheezcomixed.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/koma-comic-strip-beware-ye-troll-threads.jpg[/img]



[left][FONT=Calibri]Barack Hussein Obama is no different than any of the last string of presidents we've had. He is not the Mystery Savior of "questionable origin", he is not a steaming pile of horse crap; he's just another guy in a series of guys who got up, promised more than they could deliver, did (or are doing) what they were (are) able to do from an office of which they knew less about than they originally thought, and got paid the Big Bucks to do it.

I haven't felt like critiquing him since he's been in office because [i]I don't have a clue how to do his job[/i].[/FONT]
[/left] [/center]

[James]

[quote name='Allamorph' timestamp='1314710543' post='709171']
[center]



[left][FONT=Calibri]Barack Hussein Obama is no different than any of the last string of presidents we've had. He is not the Mystery Savior of "questionable origin", he is not a steaming pile of horse crap; he's just another guy in a series of guys who got up, promised more than they could deliver, did (or are doing) what they were (are) able to do from an office of which they knew less about than they originally thought, and got paid the Big Bucks to do it.

I haven't felt like critiquing him since he's been in office because [i]I don't have a clue how to do his job[/i].[/FONT]
[/left] [/center]
[/quote]

[font=palatino linotype]I think it should go without saying that you can critique a leader without being able to do their job, but I think your first paragraph pretty much hits the nail on the head. There are presidents who have really gross errors in judgment (Nixon, for example), but I don't think anybody ought to be surprised when a president can't fulfill every single thing that people expect.

Obama, like all candidates, did say a bunch of things during the campaign and then when he actually came to office and saw the true nature and extent of various things (especially in terms of foreign affairs), he quickly realised that some of those ideas and promises from the campaign were simply unrealistic. Happens to the best of 'em.

One of the best antidotes for troll threads, too, is to liberally spread some troll-killer around. Works like a charm. ~_^[/font]

[Allamorph]

[quote name='James'][font="palatino linotype"]One of the best antidotes for troll threads, too, is to liberally spread some troll-killer around. Works like a charm. ~_^[/quote]
[font="Calibri"]But then I can't pretend to be all grouchy and mean-spirited. ó_ò[/font]

[/font][quote name='James'][font="palatino linotype"]I think it should go without saying that you can critique a leader without being able to do their job, but I think your first paragraph pretty much hits the nail on the head. There are presidents who have really gross errors in judgment (Nixon, for example), but I don't think anybody ought to be surprised when a president can't fulfill every single thing that people expect.

Obama, like all candidates, did say a bunch of things during the campaign and then when he actually came to office and saw the true nature and extent of various things (especially in terms of foreign affairs), he quickly realised that some of those ideas and promises from the campaign were simply unrealistic. Happens to the best of 'em.[/font][/quote]
[font="Calibri"]I think you're right. I could critique what he's doing and (I hope) do so without a terrible amount of blind bias. I just feel in this case the job description is so expansive that it becomes much too easy to speak my opinion on a matter I'm almost totally ignorant aboutâ??such as how best to govern a country where you not only have to worry about simply the whole or simply the parts, but both simultaneously, and then the union of the two on top of that. Thus it's really easy to fall into either the Blind Support or the Blind Disgust camps.

Plus, given the distance between that office and myself, the spheres of influence don't even come close to interacting, so any critique I might have goes as far as "okay yeah that's cool brah", and so it does no good at all, really. Critique is criticism with a purpose, and when you remove the purpose, it's only criticism left. And that's just plain ... well, grouchy and mean-spirited. =P

But mostly I just wanted to pick at [color="DarkRed"]Boo[/color].[/font] Edited September 2, 2011 by Allamorph

[Boo]

[quote name='Allamorph' timestamp='1314928858' post='709224']
[font="Calibri"]But mostly I just wanted to pick at [color="DarkRed"]Boo[/color].[/font]
[/quote]
Oh, that was picking on? I thought complimenting. :( Edited September 2, 2011 by dark_apocalyps

[Valen]

[s]Lol, poor guy. Obama has definitely had his pitfalls, his triumphs, and his share of close-calls. We, as the people of his country, should believe in our leader... the man WE elected to become our leader.

Okay. That's enough of that. It has been shown he does not know much about American history, the number of states we have, nor the fact that he should have his hand over his heart as the pledge/nation anthem is played.... but all that I can overlook. Its gotta be a stressful job, and with most of the country now against him, it has to make it even more stressful for him. His wife is on Disney channel now trying to reach out to the younger generation and help lead them to grow away from what we, as a society, have accepted as normal--high fat diets, bad music, drinking, drugs, random sex with random strangers....

I have absolutely no idea where I am going with this, except America should give the man some more credit. He may have messed up, gotten around a few laws, tried to rewrite the constitution, but he has also helped in many ways. He's trying to get our debts settled (Eventhough there is a simple solution when you get to the nitty-gritty of it), deal with the collective intelligence of a country that has... seemingly... lost what little common sense they once had. [/s]

[s]Obama can[/s]

He's trying his best and we should support him in whatever ways we can, whether it be calling our senators and having them propose laws to our president or just sit around and do nothing and complain about it everyday. Personally, its the same problem in New Orleans. ESPECIALLY Post-Katrina. He's only one man. He can only do so much. We have so many laws and by-laws that he has to get around to even take a poop in a public setting. It's a wonder he can get ANYTHING done without running into so much red tape and paperwork.

....I never thought I would say that.