Tragedy in Newton, Conn

[Allamorph]

[FONT=Calibri][url="http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57559261/connecticut-elementary-school-massacre-20-children-among-27-dead/"]CBS News[/url]

Kids. He shot [I]kids[/I]. Twenty children just ... gone.

I don't know what else can be said.[/FONT] Edited December 15, 2012 by Allamorph

[chibi-master]

I decided to go into pediatrics because I can't stand children suffering. And then I read about THAT.

Then one of my friends from school had a breakdown in my math class because he got an emergency call on his cell phone. His second cousin was killed there today. They were really close, apparently. Another friend and I carried him to the Guidance Office and it was horrible. He was a mess and of course there was pretty much nothing that we could say to him.

This is disgusting. It's already bad enough to hurt people that have nothing to do with your problems. But these were children. Who hurts children?! That's not even human.

[SaiyanPrincessX]

Idiot, this kid is/was a freaking idiot. These people who keep doing this are making me [b]SO[/b] mad! We are going to lose our rights because of these morons.. There are other ways to deal with your freaking problems!

Those kid's didn't deserve to die! Those teachers didn't deserve to die! I don't know what his problem was with his mom but she still didn't deserve to die.

[Allamorph]

[quote name='chibi-master']He was a mess and of course there was pretty much nothing that we could say to him. [/quote]
[FONT=Calibri]I have found that, when a person is hurting that much, the best thing one can say to them is nothing. Simply your presence is enough.

And often a shoulder.[/FONT]

[Inuyasha Fandom]

In all honesty, we have to wonder why all this is happening. None of those people deserved to die like that. And two school shootings in a month? Not to sound callous, but I have to wonder if this crap is only the beginning. What worries me is this might be the start of a chain reaction that will lead to more and more events like this, and with even worse outcomes than we've already seen. This shooting is the second dealiest in history, with only Virginia Tech ahead with 33 people killed.
[quote name='Allamorph' timestamp='1355589493' post='712596']
[font=Calibri]I have found that, when a person is hurting that much, the best thing one can say to them is nothing. Simply your presence is enough.

And often a shoulder.[/font]
[/quote]

Unfortunately, I'm probably going to have to agree with Chibi-master. Perhaps you are right, but I'm not even sure if he was hurting in some way. This was an act of fiendish intent. I honestly think with the fact the guy killed his brother and his mother first before the shooting at the school supports my opinion. He wanted to destroy people and hurt others as much as he could because he wanted to. All reports say he was seriously messed up in the head. I'm not sure what all happened with the Virginia Tech incident.

Not that either of these massacres is acceptable. These crimes are atrocious. Personally, I'd be Employee Of The Year in Hell if I had a chance at these bastards. Let's not go into detail as to how I'd punish them. Just know it's unique and creative. And Painful.

I don't know what could go through someone's mind to point a gun at a child and pull the trigger, but no personal vendetta could give reason for it. I may not have ever wanted children of my own, but this makes me stand by my decision to not have them even more. I could never handle something like this. I can't imagine what's going through those poor parents' minds, or the husbands and wives and families of the adults killed, but my thoughts are with them. No parent should ever have to bury their child, and my sympathies are with all affected by this tragedy. Edited December 15, 2012 by Inuyasha Fandom

[Allamorph]

[FONT=Calibri]...who on earth are you talking about?[/FONT]

[chibi-master]

Uh, Inu? Allamorph and I were talking about my friend, not the shooter.

I think you may have been a little confused there.

[Akieen Cloud]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#000080]I keep hearing about this, and I keep trying to block it out...not because I don't want to hear about it...just cause it hurts to much. I have a 7 year old son, that just under 3 years ago lived not far from Newton. My ex husband was in the Navy and was stationed at the Navy base in Groton CT, it was only an hour and a half away...I had nightmares last night about if this person had chosed my son's school instead...and I can't imagine what the parents are going through. These kids were defenseless and didn't deserve this...and the kids who survived, they're just as bad off, having to see something like this...it's no doubt ruined most if not all of them for the rest of their lives. It's tragic and horrific that some one could be so callous, and messed up in the head to want to kill children like this...some as young as 5...[/color][/font]
[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#000080]But in response to this, I'm fighting the whole 'ban guns' thing...my friend said it best.[/color][/font]
[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#000080]Crack is illegal, yet there are still crack heads out there, if this person was messed up enough to do this, what makes anyone think he wouldn't have been willing to get his weapon illegally? [/color][/font]
[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#000080]Fact is, if we look at it rationally, we need to have teachers who are trained and permitted to carry concealed weapons, so that if something like this happens again(Which as much as I hate to say it, I'm with Inu. I feel it's just the beginning...) these teachers will have the means to protect their students instead of losing their lives to mad men. [/color][/font]
[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#000080]And on the note of agreeing with Inu on this being just the beginning... I have yet to learn this man's name, and I refuse to learn it. I refuse to learn anything about him. Reason being, look at the media, look at how they handle every instance like this one. The killers are always the main talk, you hardly ever hear about the victims, I bet not one person off the streets could tell me one of those children's names. But they could tell me his in a heart beat. We feed this kind of thing with media and it makes me sick. We pretty much idolize these crazed people by talking about them for days, weeks, years even, we compare it to old instances like it and make other insane people want to top it. If your about to off your self, would you rather do it in your basement? Where no one finds you for days, to die a sad, mentally F-ed up nobody? Or would you rather be remembered? Go and do something so drastic and evil your name and face will be remembered in family houses every where for years to come...what better way then to attack a grade school and kill children and teachers?[/color][/font]
[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#000080]It's sick and twisted and my heart goes out to the families that lost someone...[/color][/font]

[Inuyasha Fandom]

I must have gotten confused. Oops. Sorry about that.

K.G, I'm deeply saddened that you agree with me, but at least I'm not alone in my thoughts on the matter. It does seem kind of inevitable at this point. And I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said. Teachers really should be allowed to carry conceiled weapons, if only to protect the children. And it's sad that we feel we need to resort to that. Edited December 15, 2012 by Inuyasha Fandom

[Shwa]

This incident shouldn't be about gun control and now worrying parents concern over it, it should be about the victims of this tragedy and the loss they are now enduring because of this. The real debate should be accurate and detailed psychological profiling of disturbed individuals. If this man would have used an accelerate liquid, everyone would be up in arms over lighter fluid.

[James]

 If this man would have used an accelerate liquid, everyone would be up in arms over lighter fluid.

 

I don't think that's quite true - there are things you can do with guns, bombs, etc... that you simply can't do with other objects (e.g. knives).  I think it's an entirely practical question, rather than an ideological one.

 

One other thing:

 

[quote=SaiyanPrincessX]Idiot, this kid is/was a freaking idiot. These people who keep doing this are making me SO mad! We are going to lose our rights because of these morons.. There are other ways to deal with your freaking problems![/quote]

 

He wasn't an idiot - he was apparently mentally ill.  I make this distinction because I think that a lot of people make the mistake of talking in terms of stupidity, or "anger", or "evil" - and none of these descriptions actually tell us about what is really happening (and thus, give us no real idea of how to take preventative steps).

 

A lot of people are saying that addressing mental health issues must be part of the solution, but right now it really just feels like a lot of idle talk.  I'd love to see some real, earnest steps towards addressing mental health treatment (this has been something of an issue in Australia recently, where the current Labor government has recently taken some very big steps in terms of addressing mental health services generally).  This area often seems to be ignored, to everyone's detriment (not just the sufferer of the illness themselves).

 

More broadly, it's sad that the debate about prevention often comes down to silly ideological one-liners rather than looking at the question on a practical level.  Unfortunately not everyone is going to like the practical solutions that may be required, but I think the question has to be re-framed as one about balancing rights and responsibilities rather than simply reiterating that a particular "right" trumps other concerns on all occasions.

[Allamorph]

James has a fair point about the type of tool used. I don't think it speaks to the whole of the matter, since I feel that if the man had instead come in and, say, set up an explosive device our media stations would be talking about domestic terrorism instead, and how to better improve schoolground security. But that's not what happened here, so spending our time talking about what-ifs and might-have-beens would almost seem to be counter-productive.

The issue with firearms is that, not only are they fairly simple to acquire, they're also easy to transport, conceal, and use, and also require very little in the way of preparation. Sure, a person can make a bomb with general household plumbing equipment and cleaning agents, but doing so requires a fair bit of chemical knowledgeâ??or at least a bit of research to find the instructionsâ??and a good bit of time devoted to simply assembling the materials properly. Doesn't lend itself well to crimes of passion. The same way with lighter fluid or another accelerant liquid. Sure, you can just go out to Lowe's and grab a can, but to be able to cause the same amount of destruction, one would have to walk through the school spraying it basically everywhere, which is bound to get noticed.

Guns, though, are immediate. Point, aim, pull, and instant results. You don't have to set up elaborate plans for it, and you don't even need to be all that close to someone. And you can cause a lot of damage fairly quickly before you have to start worrying about law enforcement reprisal.

It's that simplicity that makes guns attractive for venting frustrations. Edited January 8, 2013 by Allamorph

[Boo]

It's that simplicity that makes guns attractive for venting frustrations.

 

^ That. Guns don't need planning. If you're really angry you don't need to first go to your household Anarchist Cookbook to make a sugar-and-oats nuke, but instead you just reach out and grab the one tool. 

 

However, I read THIS STORY, which is a bit fluffy and indirect, but the actual point is pretty OK. Mental health issues are mostly not taken seriously enough still. All across the globe, not only in the US. It's hard to find decent health care for someone with mental problems, health care that doesn't just land you in an asylum with your brains fried.