Kuja Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 [SIZE=3][FONT=century gothic][COLOR=crimson]*sigh* ur still taking it personally dont do that... and for heavens sake make a distintion between your post and his. btw if a mod edits something it would say so at the bottom DUH we do treat you with respect here, but not the 13 year old respect your used to, if your opinion isnt challanged then you dont have all the info it is sad when people come here and say other places treat them better when if i went and did EXACTLY what you did to us i would be banned and not given a second thought i am ALWAYS looking to ban spammers/flammers/and james ;) but i still havent banned a single person so if i wanted to ban you, trust me you would be gone and actually at first when you started your kiddie rant i was mad y? u ask cause you said you werent going to play a game based on graphics, and to me graphics are what your mind makes them be, with a little help from the programers i would like you to realize that i am not in middle or highschool like most members here, i have owned most every system since the original atari so u can see where i am coming from we arent trying to say your opinion is 'stupid' we are say the way you presented it is very stupid remember this: the first impression lasts a lifetime[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 Well, it's that time again; it's time for my two cents. I want to start off by saying that I purchased Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, not because it looked fantastic for the time, but because of the tremendous dungeon designs. Let's get a simple fact straight: People get old and their looks diminish and the same holds true for videogames. While Ocarina of time was thoroughly enjoyable a few years ago, it's downright blurry and the models are humble compared to some of the things I've seen on the next generation consoles. Let me pose a question to you: Which game looks more adult oriented, Devil May Cry or Ocarina of time? You'd probably say, Devil May Cry does. However, if I were to ask you what game provided the most food as opposed to fluff, you'd probably say Ocarina of Time. The gameplay and care that went into making the game remains apparent and unlike some newer titles that I finished in a six hour time span. What I am trying to illustrate here is that a true Zelda fan will not incorporate graphics into the enjoyment equation. Whether The Legend of Zelda on GameCube uses a more "mature" style or the current light hearted look, the graphical sheen will eventually wear off. It's what is left after that, that matters. The Zelda games, up until the Nintendo 64 releases were never huge graphical marvels. Now, I'll further elaborate on the tried and tried again, "childish look." Frankly, I don't believe that people care about is as much as some would believe. Parappa the Rapper was a tremendous success and it looked about as childish as possible. The characters were paper thin and detailed the adventures of a two-dimensional rapping dog wearing a red hat. Furthermore, the lyrics although childish, were catchy and were responsible for the games success. "You gotta believe!" Presently, games like Guitaroo Man or anything from Treasure, further provide support my belief that it's the underlying personality of a game that measures enjoyment-not a sophisticated visual presentation. If you want to go into the television medium, I'll have to say that South Park, while quite simple looking has an adult flavor to it that surpasses most live action sitcoms. Back to gaming, the Cel shading technique has not used it's full potential either. Oh my God, have you seen Capcom's Auto Modellista for PS2? That game proves that incredible artistic approach can further the games appeal. If a game looked like all the others just like it was done before, every polygonal fighting game would look like Battle Arena Toshinden. We all know that it's how the programmer uses the technique that matters. Sorry for jumping around, but I hope that somewhere in that mess, someone gets my point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jabroni3:16 Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 "*sigh* ur still taking it personally dont do that... and for heavens sake make a distintion between your post and his." What makes you think i am taking it personally? because i am continueing to argue my stance? "btw if a mod edits something it would say so at the bottom DUH we do treat you with respect here, but not the 13 year old respect your used to, if your opinion isnt challanged then you dont have all the info" Well thats funny i don't remember seeing a "last edited by" on my post that has the red lettering at the bottom, and i sure didn't right it, than obviuosly, i have all the info because my opinion has been challenged, here we go with calling me misinformed again. "it is sad when people come here and say other places treat them better when if i went and did EXACTLY what you did to us i would be banned and not given a second thought" whats this you would be flamed for voiceing your opinion? whats worse, by all the mods? Thats wrong and you know it, just go over to amazon and post a message like my first on this thread and you'll see what happens. "i am ALWAYS looking to ban spammers/flammers/and james but i still havent banned a single person so if i wanted to ban you, trust me you would be gone and actually at first when you started your kiddie rant i was mad y? u ask cause you said you werent going to play a game based on graphics, and to me graphics are what your mind makes them be, with a little help from the programers" Hmm... i remember there only being one part in my first message saying i thought the game was "kiddie" and if you noticed i paused before saying so, because i knew that i'd get flung all this crap for saying so, because i used to do the same thing, if someone says something is "kiddie" whats wrong with that? it shouldn't change your opinion on the matter "i would like you to realize that i am not in middle or highschool like most members here, i have owned most every system since the original atari so u can see where i am coming from we arent trying to say your opinion is 'stupid' we are say the way you presented it is very stupid remember this: the first impression lasts a lifetime" why would it matter how old you are? Really? In the gaming community age doesn't come with respect or knowledge. Along with all the different systems owned, that just shows you have/had a lot of money. How shall i present it? am i supposed to write it in Greek? The way i write is the way i am, sloppy and uncaring. I don't know how it could be considered stupid, the way i presented it. Well you guys can only imagine my impression of you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jabroni3:16 [/i] [B]I wasn't taking offense to what you said, because you and i are discussing a subject, mainly just how others were quick to come after me for, what seems like, challenging a mod's opinion. Let me ask you thins, what in my posts is a "stupid" argument, that is besides the kiddie remark? Also i don't see how my information isn't as less truthful than yours. I just want to know how some of my opinions (and if you would could you name them so i get an idea of where you are coming from) are Stupid (maybe you didn't say it in that way but thats how it came off), if you're going to say "Misinformed and Useless" than i can say the same thing about some of your opinions.[/QUOTE][/b] [color=royalblue]But you see...you have to draw a distinction here. I'm not saying that Zelda [b]isn't[/b] kiddie. I'm saying that there isn't enough compelling evidence to suggest that it [b]is[/b] kiddie. Therefore, I'm saying that you can't judge it either way -- we simply won't know until the game is released. That's all I'm saying. :)[/color][QUOTE][B] You, or i, didn't read, or write, my message well enough, i was trying to point out that since i obviously can't base MY opinion off whats available at the time then you, or anyone else, can't base YOUR opinion about how game isn't "kiddie". This argument works both ways, so i suggest you not use it again.[/QUOTE][/B] [color=royalblue]Yes, the argument does work both ways. But it's not the argument I'm using. Read carefully: [b]I am saying that you can't call Zelda kiddie or not kiddie at this point. It's too early. I'm not calling Zelda either of these things, rather, I am saying that I will reserve ALL judgement until the final product is on the shelves.[/b] How can you argue with that? Surely you seem to be saying the same thing now (which isn't what you've been saying all along)[/color][QUOTE][B] Yes and it ain't exactly new either, you said NEW and creative ideas. Therefore, if he was searching for new and creative ideas, he would have skipped Cel-Shading, cause like you said "Cel-Shading in games has only been around since Jet Set Radio" so that would make the game, or actually the graphics style, done before, therefore the style isn't new and creative, now if he started his own new thing, notice how i said new, than yeah i'd have more respect for the game. [/QUOTE][/B] [color=royalblue]Okay, but once again...you make no sense here. You see, if Miyamoto used traditional texturing like you are suggesting (the technique used on EVERY other game), then you would actually have had more reason to complain. If the footage from Space World 2000 had been the actual game, it would have technically been LESS "new" than cel-shading. Bump mapping and specular highlights are much older techniques. :) So this is a moot point. Cel-shading has nothing to do with anything -- in this instance, it comes down to whether or not you like the look of the effect. Obviously you don't; enough said.[/color][QUOTE][B] "If your jaw didn't drop at the forest sequence -- you're blind. lol" Ok thats half true, i am blind in my left eye but somehow i don't think that that scene was Jaw Droping good, i don't know why but i don't think that a shrubbry deserves that type of attention. Ok now you'll say the lighting effects are great, once again i am not amused by them.[/QUOTE][/B] [color=royalblue]Okay, fine. You don't have to like the graphics. But if you can't appreciate the design and detail in the video...then I'd question what you know about graphics at all. I mean, the animation quality was very smoothe, it was more seamless than I've seen in any other game at this point. As I said, there is no accounting for taste. If you don't like the graphics, that's fine by me.[/color][QUOTE][B] "I guarantee you, when you see this game in your local store, you will want to play it. Even if graphics are important to you -- just wait until you see it on a TV screen." You know what your right, but not for the reasons your thinking, if the GCN market is going to be the same as it is now when this Game is released, then i will be itching for any new game to play.[/QUOTE][/B] [color=royalblue]It's unlikely that the GCN game market will be any worse off when Zelda releases -- as mentioned, this is a traditional dry peroid in the console game industry. I guarantee that you will enjoy Zelda, however. Regardless of its graphics. :)[/color][QUOTE][B] "Nuh uh. Your statements directly confirmed to me that you'd basically dismissed the game as kiddie. You're not quoting everything you said in that particular quote." Um yes that is the whole quote, unless if one of you Mods went back and changed stuff. I copied and pasted, so if it's wrong it's because of one of you mods.[/QUOTE][/B] [color=royalblue]*sigh* You only quoted one of your posts. You made several posts, where you effectively dug a deeper hole each time. :) You can't blame me for putting a foot in your mouth lol.[/color][QUOTE][B] "I'm attacking your contention. Please make that distinction. These forums are a place of intelligent discussion. If you can post misinformed tripe at Amazon without being pulled up on it, then I pity Amazon's quality. lol" Once again it wasn't you i was takeing offence to it was the others. Also the people at amazon at much more friendly then those here. At least there opinions are respected, rather than insulted. Also what "Misinformed tripe" have i posted? Surely it's nothing worse than what you have wrote, but we all know who's never wrong here don't we, and what he says is iron clad.[/QUOTE][/B] [color=royalblue]I have never said that I'm never wrong -- quite the contrary. I'm just as friendly as anyone else...and as I said, I'm not being mean to you at all. I'm merely pointing out that your original contention, which was to dismiss Zelda due to its visual appearance, was stupid. Why can't you just accept that? It's not exactly a big deal.[/color][QUOTE][B] "I'm not saying your words were like that exactly...as I"m using an extreme example. But that's how your post came off when I read it." Well maybe you shouldn't read messages in that state of mind, cause when you decide to go all out on the guy who said it you'll end up looking like a butt in the end.[/QUOTE][/B] [color=royalblue]I wasn't reading in any state of mind, this is how your comment appeared. Can't you see that? You basically said "I'm not interested in Zelda because it's kiddie". And the simple fact is, as I've stressed time and time again, you simply can't call a game kiddie unless you've played it. I'm not calling it kiddie or non-kiddie...I'm just saying that everyone should reserve judgement until later. If you read my posts properly, you will understand this point. And after reading this post, I hope you can accept what I'm saying.[/color][QUOTE][B] Oh and thank you for telling me my comments are stupid, you can always tell a good mod when they complament you, thanks. Oh and go ahead add you're little opinions after i am done writing, after all thats what i am here for. [/B][/QUOTE] [color=royalblue]No need for sarcasm. ;) You're hurt because your statements were debunked. That's understandable. But I'm asking you to think objectively about the situation. You just can't go calling a game kiddie (like the millions of fanboys out there) if you [b]haven't[/b] played it. As I said...I'm not taking one side or the other on this issue. But if you're going to throw an opinion out there, make sure you put plenty of logic and fact behind that opinion. Otherwise, the opinion becomes baseless. My opinion on Zelda is that while I don't particularly like the character model, I am unwilling to make a determination on the game as yet, simply because I don't know enough about it. And in this regard, I am no different to you. Neither of us can call the game kiddie or non-kiddie just yet. That's all I'm saying. Therefore, in this context, your original comments [b]were[/b] unfounded and baseless. However, in this post, you seem to have changed your tune a little. So I am assuming that you've realized that it's silly to make such a broad assumption about something without having the full details. By the way...this thread has been a big boost for our otherwise activity-less Zelda forum. Good job to all who participated. lol :):laugh: :excited: [/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Break Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 [SIZE=1]Right... I participated, but I was ignored, being the little person I am... And I don't care for graphics, how can you base a game on graphics? Say if a game came out with amazingly great graphics, but when you played it, the game had a crap storyline, would you like it? No... (unless you're mad) ... so it doesn't matter if the graphics are "cartoony" (cel-shading to us ;)), it's really the game itself that counts... AND I SAID: When is it coming out?![/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuja Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 [SIZE=3][FONT=century gothic][COLOR=crimson]i closed the topic because this should now be taken to PM between you (or IMs) i talked it over with others and quite frankly this is getting boring and no one but u2 seem to be posting about it Now James i know this is going to sound odd but do NOT i repeat NOT open this thread back up or post in it, or edit my post to get your 2 cents in the Mods and Super Mods have decided and it isnt worth it to have this open any longer. there is nothing wrong with the content... just needs to be in PM or IMs from now on k? good thank you your friendly otaku staff[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by kuja [/i] [B][SIZE=3][FONT=century gothic][COLOR=crimson]i closed the topic because this should now be taken to PM between you (or IMs) i talked it over with others and quite frankly this is getting boring and no one but u2 seem to be posting about it Now James i know this is going to sound odd but do NOT i repeat NOT open this thread back up or post in it, or edit my post to get your 2 cents in the Mods and Super Mods have decided and it isnt worth it to have this open any longer. there is nothing wrong with the content... just needs to be in PM or IMs from now on k? good thank you your friendly otaku staff[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE] [/B][/QUOTE] [color=royalblue]I'm too tired to debate the subject. You have absolutely no right to close this thread because you or anyone else feels that "the argument is basically over" or whatever. That isn't grounds for closing a thread. This thread was a legitimate discussion and it was good that various people were able to weigh in with their thoughts and commentary. Sure, it verged on getting argumentative...but for the most part, I believe it was a good exchange of opinion. If we can't exchange opinions frankly, then there's no point keeping the site open...as I've said before. Therefore, I do not want to see any threads closed again on this basis.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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