Gaming I've got the blue's....The MGS2 Blue's, that is

[Guest Solid Snake]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=royalblue]I've just played the game tonight for a few hours...as I rented it. I was reluctant to buy it, based on what I'd heard.

So here's what I think of it...

At first, I didn't like it. Why? Because every five seconds, you are being bugged by someone wanting to tell you something incredibly obvious. I found that the continual talking and communication broke away from the actual gameplay and it made me feel very frustrated.

However, as time went on, it seemed to calm down to a tolerable level.

I also watched the entire "making of" video...which was [i]very[/i] good. It says that you should watch it after finishing the game, but for me...it helped me to understand the core principles behind the game a little more (especially as I was reluctant to read a lot of the babbling).

I was quite shocked by Raiden, in the sense that he is not very like Snake. Snake comes across as a hardened hero...whereas Raiden comes across as a quite feminine newbie.

[i]However[/i], I understand why Raiden was included. Playing from his perspective meant that when you encounter Snake, he seems more impressive -- Hideo Kojima wanted to distance the player from Snake a little at the start, in order to add a new impression of him.

And I think it worked.

I also think that Raiden is a cool character. He's not too dissimilar from many Japanese RPG characters, in the sense that he is a "very beautiful man", as Hideo Kojima puts it. I think that this is really a kind of metaphoric thing...whereby Raiden and Snake are opposites in many ways. But also, Snake is passing on his knowledge to Raiden...and Raiden, while inexperienced, is a sign of the "next generation".

The whole analogy of Snake being Kojima and Raiden being Kojima's development team was also a very good one -- I think it was cleverly included.

So even though I have yet to finish the game, I must say that I am pleased overall.

I wouldn't really rate this game any higher than its predecessor though -- I don't feel that it has particularly added anything new. Rather, this game seems to be more focused on personal stories of characters.

In terms of gameplay, I haven't seen many fundamental additions, apart from a few novelty additions.

Still, so far it's been fun...it's not the best game on the PS2, but it's a little deeper and more thoughtful than your average game. When I saw the making of MGS2 on the second disc, I think that helped me to gain a little more respect for the game, because I could see what the designers were trying to do.

So from that standpoint, I think they achieved their goal. From a gameplay standpoint, MGS2 left something to be desired.[/color][/B][/QUOTE]
[color=teal]Truthfully, I agreed more or less with what you said. But I would be doing you a disfavor if didn't tell you [i]what[/i] I agreed and didn't agree with.[/color]

[QUOTE][COLOR=royalblue][b]At first, I didn't like it. Why? Because every five seconds, you are being bugged by someone wanting to tell you something incredibly obvious. I found that the continual talking and communication broke away from the actual gameplay and it made me feel very frustrated.[/b][/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
[color=teal]I would have to disagree with you on this one. True, some of the messages were obvious, but others you definitly needed to read to figure out what to do and how to accomplish the task, at least, that was how it was for me. Also, messages didn't pop up every five seconds, but only when you came to an obstacle. Unless you are an extremly fast player, or you are talking about the time when the Colonel goes crazy, I would give each of these a distance of around ten minutes. The only messages I found to be fustrating were the ones given by Otacon after you saved your missions, so yes, in this way it did break away from the game. I would have been completely fine with the messages if it wasn't for those dumb sayings by Otacon, and the boring love life of Rose given after you save your mission.[/color]

[QUOTE][COLOR=royalblue][b]I was quite shocked by Raiden, in the sense that he is not very like Snake. Snake comes across as a hardened hero...whereas Raiden comes across as a quite feminine newbie.[/b][/color][/quote]
[color=teal]I agree with you a lot on this one. I can deffinitly see where you are coming from when you say that Raiden is very different from Snake, in the fact that Snake is so much more "heroish," and knows what is going on. However, I would hardly call Raiden a feminine newbie, heh. I mean to say, he has had some past training in VR, and can fit to the atmosphere around him comfortably. People are saying that he is such a wimp with his love life, but actually, he looks like he is just blowing off Rose, and staying focused on the mission. He has the potential, he just needs to get used to feild training.[/color]

[QUOTE][COLOR=royalblue][b][i]However[/i], I understand why Raiden was included. Playing from his perspective meant that when you encounter Snake, he seems more impressive -- Hideo Kojima wanted to distance the player from Snake a little at the start, in order to add a new impression of him.[/b][/color][/quote]
[color=teal]I, too, can see why Raiden was included, and I agree totally with what you had said. It was also stated in Electronic Gaming Monthly, almost in the exact words as you put it, which Kojima had said in an interview.[/color]

[quote][color=royalblue][b]I also think that Raiden is a cool character. He's not too dissimilar from many Japanese RPG characters, in the sense that he is a "very beautiful man", as Hideo Kojima puts it. I think that this is really a kind of metaphoric thing...whereby Raiden and Snake are opposites in many ways. But also, Snake is passing on his knowledge to Raiden...and Raiden, while inexperienced, is a sign of the "next generation".

The whole analogy of Snake being Kojima and Raiden being Kojima's development team was also a very good one -- I think it was cleverly included.[/b][/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
[color=teal]Very true, Raiden is a cool character, which others seem to have trouble figuring out. He is cool, but I am in no way about to judge guys to put them into words such as "beautiful". It does show that kind of relationship of Snake passing down his knowledge to a new generation, and I thought it was very clever for you to compare Snake and Raiden as Kojima and his developement team.

Over-all, I agreed with you. I might have been able to agree more so, but I couldn't compare my reaction to the bonus DVD, for America only recieved the game and nothing else. I appreciate you giving the game a try, and hope that you may enjoy the rest of it. Be warned, however, that the story may get a little hard to comprehend.[/color]

:blah:

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Crazy White Boy [/i]
[B]
Without spoiling anything, it becomes annoying saving a game and listening to he and his girlfriend sort out their personal problems. Not only is it unrealistic--it's ridiculous. It takes away from the realism of the game. In that situation, they would never allow personal situations interfere in such serious matters. The whole scenario seems elodramatic to me. If you chose to skip his whiny girlfriend's babbling, you're forced to skip through pages of text.

[/B][/QUOTE]

[color=royalblue]I agree with you. The love story aspect just wasn't necessary -- I believe the game would have been more interesting sans ANY love story.

Having said that, if MGS2 had revealed a little less about Raiden...then perhaps he would have been a more likeable character.

But I feel that perhaps revealing so much about Raiden was deliberate for two reasons:

1) The more you know about him and the more human he seems, the more endearing and identifiable he becomes.

2) The addition of a romance...of human emotions, makes Raiden appear more vulnerable than Snake. Thus, he feels more "human".

I think that these two factors are possibilities to consider when talking about Raiden.

So in that context, I don't mind it so much. But I do feel that his relationships with others could have been toned down -- it would have been okay to know more about Raiden than Snake...as long as it doesn't go overboard, as you said.

Having said that, I don't fault Raiden as a character based on that. It was more the circumstances surrounding him which caused the annoyances for me.

So I'd be happy to see Raiden make some sort of return in MGS3 (presuming MGS3 goes into development in future). But if Konami chooses him as the main character, I think they're going to need to approach him from a different angle.[/color]

[Dan L]

[color=darkblue][b]Well, I can't confirm this, but I've heard that Raiden is a one-off character.. however reliable or unreliable this info may be... I liked the whole thing about Raiden's past, and his character, but I think it could have been told in a different way than the whole love story..

I don't want to start a new thread, so I'll ask here... how in hell are you supposed to get the dog tags in the tanker, the ones that belong to some of the marines in the cargo holds?? cos that's really been bugging me, I can't find the right marines.... well... I can find one of them, on Very Easy mode...[/b][/color]

[Sephiroth]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Deus_Ex_Machina [/i]
[B][color=darkblue][b]

I don't want to start a new thread, so I'll ask here... how in hell are you supposed to get the dog tags in the tanker, the ones that belong to some of the marines in the cargo holds?? cos that's really been bugging me, I can't find the right marines.... well... I can find one of them, on Very Easy mode...[/b][/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

it really depends on the time, check out gamefaqs.com as it tells you how you can get to those guards....

as for MGS3, I believe that if they do decide to release it, then it should be on the PS3, there is no point in releasing it on the PS2 apart from a new story, I really do not think they can change the graphics much the PS2, plus the game would become more revolutionary on the PS3....

[Dan L]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sephiroth [/i]
[B]

it really depends on the time, check out gamefaqs.com as it tells you how you can get to those guards....[/b][/quote]

[COLOR=darkblue][b]Aahh yes... unfortunately though, the PAL dog tag faq doesn't say anything I didn't already know (the guy just copied what it says in the dog tag viewer... he doesn't even have all the dog tags, or even any in the plant mission) and I checked the US version dog tag FAQ and the marines in the holds don't have dog tags in that version :(... Oh well... I'll have to sort it out by meself... it's better that way anyway ;)[/COLOR]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sephiroth [/i]
[B]
as for MGS3, I believe that if they do decide to release it, then it should be on the PS3, there is no point in releasing it on the PS2 apart from a new story, I really do not think they can change the graphics much the PS2, plus the game would become more revolutionary on the PS3.... [/B][/QUOTE]

[COLOR=darkblue][b]Probably so... though I hope they don't make just one metal gear game for each sytem they make... mind you, saying that, it's probably better that way than making too many and start being unoriginal.. They could get away with it with FF cos each game is individual, but not with a continuing story like Metal Gear.

Off topic: Hey seph, are you getting Deus Ex for the PS2? It's out next Friday.. [/COLOR] ;)[/b]

[Guest Deranged Gerbil]

I myself did not enjoy the game very much because of a few things, the unrealistic nature of rose and raiden's love thing just didn't appeal to me, I mean, the guy is basically on a mission to save the planet and there rose is, talking about their love thing, and why he never sleeps with her, I mean talk about stupid :rolleyes:

the graphics were awesome, I have no complaints about that

the bosses however, were a different story, none of the bosses appealed to me as the bosses from MGS1 had, the MGS1 bosses were classics, they had pasts, you felt for them when they died, but MGS2? I don't think any of us gave a damn about the death's of any of the members of dead cell

I could rant more, but I'm too damn lazy

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sephiroth [/i]
[B]



as for MGS3, I believe that if they do decide to release it, then it should be on the PS3, there is no point in releasing it on the PS2 apart from a new story, I really do not think they can change the graphics much the PS2, plus the game would become more revolutionary on the PS3.... [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=royalblue]I'd have to disagree with that. In-game graphics aren't going to increase by leaps and bounds from now on...I mean, sure, they will become more realistic and more fluid, but I don't have a single problem with MGS2's visuals.

That said, I think that a lot can be done in a design sense. The environments in MGS2 where somewhat repetitive at times and I feel that using the same graphics engine, Konami could really turn out some impressive level designs (even though current designs were still quite good).

If Konami make another MGS on PS2, I really hope that they improve the storyline, in terms of keeping the crappy love sequences out of it. And perhaps adding more of a background to the various enemy characters.[/color]

[Dan L]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B]

[color=royalblue]I'd have to disagree with that. In-game graphics aren't going to increase by leaps and bounds from now on...I mean, sure, they will become more realistic and more fluid, but I don't have a single problem with MGS2's visuals.

That said, I think that a lot can be done in a design sense. The environments in MGS2 where somewhat repetitive at times and I feel that using the same graphics engine, Konami could really turn out some impressive level designs (even though current designs were still quite good).[/quote]

[color=darkblue][b]I have to say, I agree...graphics have come a long way for game systems, and I personally don't think they will improve a great deal.. Some things may be improved, such as managing to have lots of moving people on the screen withough any slowdown, as in this case- go to the first hold in the tanker level (with stealth equiped) and punch-punch-kick one of the front marines, he will fly backwards, and knock another down, and a domino-like chain reaction ensues.. that is hilarious, but it slows the game down like hell.. They can probably improve on this, but I doubt that the graphics will get any better, except maybe for a higher polygon count.[/color]

[quote]If Konami make another MGS on PS2, I really hope that they improve the storyline, in terms of keeping the crappy love sequences out of it. And perhaps adding more of a background to the various enemy characters.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=darkblue]And maybe they could make it so the last half hour actually makes sense... especially that bit about the *SPOILER* entity in the walls of the whitehouse, or something like that... I just had to laugh when he said that... me being a biochem student and all...



PS: after searching, I have found the location of the rogue marine with the dog tag in the holds... and he's slightly... hard to get to, being in the middle of a crowd and all that....[/color][/b]

[Sephiroth]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Deus_Ex_Machina [/i]
[B]

[color=darkblue]

PS: after searching, I have found the location of the rogue marine with the dog tag in the holds... and he's slightly... hard to get to, being in the middle of a crowd and all that....[/color][/b] [/B][/QUOTE]

how the heck did you do it? I didn't even think that any of the marines had dog tags, but in the middle? hmm, maybe with the stealth cloak....

[Dan L]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sephiroth [/i]
[B]

how the heck did you do it? I didn't even think that any of the marines had dog tags, but in the middle? hmm, maybe with the stealth cloak.... [/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah, most sites don't mention them because theyre only there in the PAL version... I haven't held the guy up yet, i just know which one it is, but I was [i]so close[/i] the other day... One of the best tactics is to keep your eye on that guy and knock everyone down by kicking one guard and starting a chain reaction.. once enough of them are knocked out you can drag him away (with stealth on) without being noticed... The problem is when the marines are all moving, it slows the game down alot... another option is to put them all to sleep and try to sneak up to him, but it's too hard not to bump into them, and you can't make people shake unless they can see you, otherwise they don't know where the gun's aimed at... The other option of course, is to progressively hold all the gaurds behind him up and put them to sleep (this makes them fall over) so there's no risk of bumping into them, but this slow the game down, like when you knock them over..

[Sephiroth]

dear god that sounds complicated! ugh, I guess the only way is to put the game on very easy so they sleep a LOT longer, and then try putting everyone to sleep....sigh....